#911truthwinning: A call to all infowarriors aka how i learned to stop worrying and love Charlie Sh

Does anyone here believe Charlie will bring up 9/11 in his 'Torpedo of Truth ' tour. This could be sensational. Is it possible that he pushes this back onto the front page?

Originally posted by dillweed
Does anyone here believe Charlie will bring up 9/11 in his 'Torpedo of Truth ' tour. This could be sensational. Is it possible that he pushes this back onto the front page?

Why not?

Isn't that the kind of thing a "Torpedo of Truth" would be all about?

Originally posted by dubiousone
The endless argument with the debunker crowd is a complete waste of time.

The fact is these people have seen plenty of evidence and information.

Pointing to the information over and over again is not going to help,

The issue psychological denial and rationalization.

On some level they already know the "official story" is ridiculous.

I watched a vairly expansive documentary on how and why the US government orchestrated 9/11. The doco went for approximately 140 mins and covered all areas. Im from aus and I just want to know what most peoples mood in America are when u bring up that the government could be behind it? After watching the doco and investigating further I myself believe that US government did do it, there was to many facts, controlled demolition.

I watched a vairly expansive documentary on how and why the US government orchestrated 9/11. The doco went for approximately 140 mins and covered all areas. Im from aus and I just want to know what most peoples mood in America are when u bring up that the government could be behind it? After watching the doco and investigating further I myself believe that US government did do it, there was to many facts, controlled demolition.

Originally posted by bsbray11


Where did I say that? Now you really can't distinguish your fantasies from reality.

I've asked you before what you do, apart from arguing on the internet. And your reply was - nothing.

Of course you can dispell this notion immediately by showing me something you've done other than fiddle about on the internet...

What you define as "serious campaigning" is probably the most asinine thing someone could think of from the comfort of their own computer chair. I'm not worried about it.

You seem a little worried.

I don't care who agrees with me insofar as I want a new investigation anyway. Not, I don't care as in, I'm not here wasting my time with a multiple-account-making 'shady trick' of a troll. If you choose not to distinguish then I'm sure it'll just be one more reason you're whole trolling shtick is blatantly off.

Who's foaming at the mouth now? This doesn't even make sense.

As far as I can see you're trying to tell me that you don't care what my opinion is. But your contention was that you don't care what anyone's opinion is. Which is foolish and apathetic because it ignores that you need more than just you to accomplish anything.

It's kind of egocentric to assume that there will eventually be another investigation just because you think there ought to be. And it's practically and logistically naive - not to mention callous - to allow all those people to have been murdered for nothing because you're too lazy to do anything about it.

That about reflects the mentality of someone who can barely even comprehend that a lot of shady stuff happened around 9/11 that wasn't investigated, and then apparently hits an opaque wall when trying to grasp the mentality of those who already have comprehended this. Maybe the biggest part of that opaque wall of yours is that you like to think that all "truthers" think the exact same thing.

Strawman. I don't think that. I can grasp your mentality from what you write, it's really not that difficult. You're impressed with yourself for having ascertained that some sort of mass murder was probably carried out by "shady" conspirators - most likely tied to the government - and that's enough for you. The fact that you're able to demonstrate this knowledge gives you sufficient satisfaction, so any actual effort to do something about it is unnecessary.

If I thought this, I would want to do somethig about it. But then I'm not so self-absorbed to think that my opinion on its own is the most important aspect of any single global event.

I never said anything about what they would decide after looking at any information, only that the uninformed ones likely automatically believe generally the same thing you do only because it's what the MSM mantra'd for so many years, regardless of not knowing about WTC7 or so many other lesser known facts. Take that to mean what you will. So no, I made no fallacy; you misinterpreted my point.

What is your point? It hardly seems germane.

I never made that claim either, but now that you mention it, it's not like you can show lists of 1000's of people who think we already know everything that's important and shouldn't bother anymore.

Yeah, because that's how advocacy works. Witness all the petitions in favour of keeping things how they are when there's very little chance of them changing.

People don't tend to bother organising support for something that enjoys massive support.

No, it's not. It's only an indication of what we have known all along, that MSM sources that everyone seems to rely on by default make people borderline retarded but at the same time are almost impossible to compete with. That's why I said we need money. Money is the only thing that gets you as much media attention as everything else gets, like Britney Spears or all the coverage of propaganda on Fox News to brainwash so many people into thinking that Saddam had something to do with 9/11. AE911 is the organization closest to doing anything like this, and the more money it makes, the more "debunkers" like you foam at the mouth about a charlatan.

edit on 17-3-2011 by bsbray11 because: (no reason given)

Hmmm. I'd like to see some evidence that AE911 are close to doing anything to get money to launch any kind of MSM campaign.

But I basically disagree. The "facts" that 9/11 Truth claim to bein possession of are dynamite. They would have no problem gaining penetration if they weren't advocated by indolent people and bereft of any actual basis in reality.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by bsbray11
Where did I say that? Now you really can't distinguish your fantasies from reality.

I've asked you before what you do, apart from arguing on the internet. And your reply was - nothing.

Of course you can dispell this notion immediately by showing me something you've done other than fiddle about on the internet...

So this perception of yours (which I couldn't give less of a horse dropping about) somehow equates to me "openly admitting" that I do no "serious campaigning," even though I said no such thing. Now you are apparently the judge of what people say, even when they don't actually say it.

I already suspected trolling, but now the trolling has been confirmed.

reply to post by bsbray11


I could go back and dig out where you said it, which would take me a while. Or what would be a lot easier would be for you to just quickly tell us what you've done to further your cause.

Anything. Other than posting on internet discussion forums.

Anything. FOIA request? Written to someone in authority? Anything at all?

Even just waved a placard somewhere?

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
I could go back and dig out where you said it, which would take me a while.

Like forever, since I never said I know for a fact I never said something as stupid as "I openly admit I do no serious campaigning" or anything even close. I think you were fantasizing to yourself and when you reached that orgasmic climax of fantasy you carried the memory back with you here to the real world, where you still think I actually posted something like this.

Or what would be a lot easier would be for you to just quickly tell us what you've done to further your cause.

Anything. Other than posting on internet discussion forums.

I could, but that would be like acknowledging that your opinion of what I've done is worth a damn or relevant to anything in the first place. Which it isn't. You're nobody to me, and certainly no judge of deeds.

And yet you're prepared to answer to let me know your opinion, even though of course you don't care.

So, nothing then. Just a bit of keyboard action. As I thought.

The evil conspirators must be literally quaking at the prospect of you writing another reply about how you seeeriously don't care.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
And yet you're prepared to answer to let me know your opinion, even though of course you don't care.

I know you come on here just to make yourself feel big arguing with others, getting the last word in and feeling like you've made them look like fools. Not because you have any concern over all the information about 9/11 Americans still don't have, and are trying to find out. I know this because you never show any interest in finding real facts, and are perfectly content with layman guesses and excuses instead ('all those explosions were obviously transformers' etc). That alone shows you are trolling here. Your interest is solely in talking about other members, and getting into endless arguments that move away from technical topics and onto personal ones exactly like you are doing right now, instead of trying to arrive at any objective conclusion. In that, you have issues that I could never remedy.

But given all of that, I still respond to you because if you're going to come here to exercise your ego, I don't want you to feel an undeserved sense of accomplishment. You are wasting everyone's time here talking about things that have nothing to do with 9/11 itself. You know you can actually get paid to rant like you do in a tabloid magazine. Here, you are as perfectly useless as you claim I am. At best your argument here makes you a hypocrite. I said at best.

So, nothing then. Just a bit of keyboard action. As I thought.

A bit of keyboard action that on ATS alone is more effective than anything you've done here, disregarding everything I have done away the computer. So what are you gaining here with this "argument", since if what I'm doing is useless, what you're doing must be that much more useless and a waste of time? You are the reason I am wasting my time, and therefore the real waste. You get your rocks off exercising your sarcastic come-backs, that's all you gain. You want me to summarize everything I've done related to 9/11, when I wouldn't even be able to remember all of it, just to inevitably spit in my face and tell me I'm a failure. I know how warm and fuzzy of a person you are in your heart, which is why I don't give a rat's ass about anything you think about me. And that is what I want to make clear to you.

The evil conspirators must be literally quaking at the prospect of you writing another reply about how you seeeriously don't care.

No, but then again, some big damned difference you're making here either, unless your whole objective is to waste time diverting the topic to personal attacks. Congratulations, you know how to be a jerk, and are great at it. TPTB are worried about "national security" being compromised by internet discussions, for example revolving around conspiracy theories, and they admit as much themselves (Cass Sunstein). It's not what I do personally, it's what all of us are saying collectively (besides you and your equally inconsequential "debunker" buddies) that has them resorting to paying DoD employees to post on blogs and forums, and consider stricter ways of regulating the internet. Also they are interested in this because apparently people like you are utterly failing to curtail these discussions to any significant degree. Probably because every "argument" you post is either a fallacy or in some other way completely stupid or off-topic. It makes a difference you know.

Everyone knows that going against the government's version of 9/11 is career suicide.And this is what is happening to Charlie now.It's because he's spoken out that they(illuminati)are going after him.And that's how they do it.They try to make you look crazy so people won't believe you.But there are wayyy to many people speaking out about it now so..who knows what will happen in the future.

Originally posted by GodIsPissed
Everyone knows that going against the government's version of 9/11 is career suicide.

That's the idea that Charlie Sheen is now refuting. Last I heard, his first "Torpedo of Truth" show scheduled in NYC sold out in less than 10 minutes. And he's already added at least a second date for what is looking like a tour.

Remember about 50% of NY'ers themselves want another investigation into 9/11 too.


It's easy to talk crap about the guy, but like he says himself, what kind of car are you driving? What kind of girls are you bringing home? That's right, he said girls (plural).

Gotta love the balls the guy has.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by GodIsPissed
Everyone knows that going against the government's version of 9/11 is career suicide.

That's the idea that Charlie Sheen is now refuting.

That's what he's refuting? How is he refuting it?

Originally posted by pteridine
That's what he's refuting? How is he refuting it?

Originally posted by bsbray11
Last I heard, his first "Torpedo of Truth" show scheduled in NYC sold out in less than 10 minutes. And he's already added at least a second date for what is looking like a tour.

Remember about 50% of NY'ers themselves want another investigation into 9/11 too.


It's easy to talk crap about the guy, but like he says himself, what kind of car are you driving? What kind of girls are you bringing home? That's right, he said girls (plural).

Charlie Sheen has sold out several dates on his US schedule for his 'My Violent Torpedo of Truth: Defeat is Not An Option' tour.

The show will see Charlie Sheen take to the road in early April for a month around the US and Canada.

As reported in the San Francisco Chronicle, it remains unclear as to what will actually take place at the events, but it is thought that they may draw on the actors 'Sheen's Korner,' rants which are already available on the internet. The show "IS where you will hear the REAL story from the Warlock," according to TicketMaster. Tickets are priced between 50 and 90 dollars, with extra 'meet and greet' packages costing considerably more.

Since being fired by the producers of Two and a Half Men, Sheen's behaviour has been increasingly erratic. Snowballing from his now infamous interview with Cbs's Katie Couric, in which he announced he was 'bi-winning' as opposed to bi-polar, Sheen's activities have been the cause of much concern in the press. His father Martin Sheen has weighed in, likening his son's problems with substance abuse to a physical illness: 'the disease of addiction is like a form of cancer.'

Sheen made history when he took to Twitter, amassing over 1 million followers in 24 hours - a record number in such a short amount of time.

www.contactmusic.com...


Wow, imagine that! And I don't even twitter.

Charlie Sheen’s taking his show on the road! Literally. And by show we mean his one-man act: “Charlie Sheen LIVE: My Violent Torpedo of Truth/Defeat is Not an Option.” Apparently his shows in Detroit and Chicago sold out in just 18 minutes!

OK! NEWS: CHARLIE SHEEN REACTS TO DEVASTATION IN JAPAN — “DOGSPEED MY CADRES OF THE FAR EAST”

During the weekend Charlie tweeted, “Fastball; Detroit/Chicago sold out in minutes… Thanks to Sheen’s Cadre..! #WINNING c”

So, what exactly can fans expect from this show which costs between $35 and $70 each set, not including Ticketmaster fees? “There will be a lot of scripted material, plus videos, interactive audience material, the whole range of things that play off Charlie’s strengths,” a source told E! Online. “There will be light and dark moments. People will not be disappointed.”

www.okmagazine.com...

Originally posted by bsbray11That alone shows you are trolling here. Your interest is solely in talking about other members, and getting into endless arguments that move away from technical topics and onto personal ones

your ego,

I don't want you

You are wasting everyone's time

You know you can actually get paid

you are as perfectly useless as you claim I am

your argument here makes you a hypocrite. I said at best.

So I'm a hypocrite because I'm focusing on the personal... Interesting.

A bit of keyboard action that on ATS alone is more effective than anything you've done here, disregarding everything I have done away the computer. So what are you gaining here with this "argument", since if what I'm doing is useless, what you're doing must be that much more useless and a waste of time?

But I don't think that the American government may have conspired to murder its own citizens. I'm not under the impression that Americans are living under a secret totalitarianism. You are. Which makes your refusal to do anything about it - except get spit-fleckingly furious with me - a bit odd.

Unless of course you have done something "away from the computer". But you remain remarkably evasive about what that might be.

You are the reason I am wasting my time, and therefore the real waste. You get your rocks off exercising your sarcastic come-backs, that's all you gain. You want me to summarize everything I've done related to 9/11, when I wouldn't even be able to remember all of it, just to inevitably spit in my face and tell me I'm a failure.

You're becoming emotional. "Spit in your face"? Grow up.

I know how warm and fuzzy of a person you are in your heart, which is why I don't give a rat's ass about anything you think about me. And that is what I want to make clear to you.

Okay, it's coming across loud and clear that you care so little for me that you're prepared to write three thousand incandescently emotional words about my attitude to you.

No, but then again, some big damned difference you're making here either, unless your whole objective is to waste time diverting the topic to personal attacks.

See above. Your approach is entirely personal. And then you have the temerity to accuse me of hypocrisy. Still, that's another issue, and one that doesn't really figure in the grand scheme of things.

What is pertinent is that it doesn't matter what "difference" I make, since, once again, I'm relatively happy with the status quo in terms of this debate. I think that specific aspects of the US's attitude to intel could probably be looked at again, but it's not the most pressing concern. I'm not remotely interested in dusting for super thermite or whatever the latest crackpot fantasy is. So really, I don't need to make a difference. Whereas you, with your notions of conspiracy, really do need to at least try to have some kind of effect on all of this.

Unless of course your ideas are actually just a posture to make yourself look clever

It's not what I do personally

Phew, that's a good job, since you're not doing anything much.

it's what all of us are saying collectively (besides you and your equally inconsequential "debunker" buddies) that has them resorting to paying DoD employees to post on blogs and forums, and consider stricter ways of regulating the internet.

They must be terrified of you if they're considering maybe perhaps limiting the internet. Which of course they're only doing in your imagination.

So really you're just banging around in an inconsequential internet echo chamber. The "Truth" can pretend that they have the authorities running scared, but if they were really bothered they'd have done something about the "movement" ages ago. You're ineffectual. And it seems your'e determined to remain so.

Also they are interested in this because apparently people like you are utterly failing to curtail these discussions to any significant degree. Probably because every "argument" you post is either a fallacy or in some other way completely stupid or off-topic. It makes a difference you know.

edit on 21-3-2011 by bsbray11 because: (no reason given)

We're not stopping you from... posting on the internet? So what?

Running scared. They're running scared. It's only a matter of time.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
So I'm a hypocrite because I'm focusing on the personal... Interesting.

Originally posted by bsbray11
I said at best.

Now I'm responding to things before you even post them. Predictable much?

But I don't think that the American government may have conspired to murder its own citizens. I'm not under the impression that Americans are living under a secret totalitarianism. You are. Which makes your refusal to do anything about it - except get spit-fleckingly furious with me - a bit odd.

This is the kind of worthless commentary you feed on here, that actually has no significance whatsoever. You have no idea whether or not I'm "doing anything about it," or what that would even mean to me according to my own beliefs, which you also don't understand. You make so many assumptions and leaps of logic within even a single sentence that I'm just trying to save you time by pointing out that all of this commentary is unscientific gobbledy-gook that could have equally run out of a FOX "News" anchors' mouth, and which is probably where you get all this crap. Any time you're ready to move on past your tabloid rants and return to anything even approaching objectivity or a legitimate scientific inquiry, I'll still be here.

Unless of course you have done something "away from the computer". But you remain remarkably evasive about what that might be.

It's not remarkable that I wouldn't be inclined to divulge what all I do in my personal life to you, especially if you had any real idea about my personal life. If you really think it's that remarkable then why don't you volunteer yourself to describe your personal life to me, and what all you do away from the computer?

You're becoming emotional. "Spit in your face"? Grow up.

How is that not appropriate? Is anything you're talking about here scientific? No. Does any of it follow any kind of logical method? No. It's not objective in any sense at all. It's opinionated, subjective MSM-style ranting that's invariously aimed at assassinating my character. That's your whole obvious point here, and that's what you're trying to bring to the discussion.

Hold on, wait a minute. Is anything you're talking about here actually scientific? No. Does it have a logical point in any way shape or form? No. I just thought I would repeat it a second time in the hopeless attempt for you to read and comprehend.

Okay, it's coming across loud and clear that you care so little for me that you're prepared to write three thousand incandescently emotional words about my attitude to you.

Honestly one of the reasons I come to these forums is so I can express the feelings I have for people like you, to people like you. And let me clarify. All throughout history there are people who stick to sound reasoning and judgment, and there is the mass who unconsciously follows whatever the flavor of the month is, employing any number of illogical arguments and complete nonsense to justify it.

I'm sure you think that you're the one employing sound reasoning and I'm the one that's employing nonsense. But I have actual proof for my point. Look at the conversation you are conducting right now. You are trying to turn the thread into a character assassination by dissecting my private life. It would be no use to tell you that this is a logical fallacy, as if you had any stated logical point you were trying to make in the first place, because you don't apparently don't know the difference between logic and a fallacy, or don't understand the significance of this difference. And that is my proof that, provided by this thread alone, of who is on which side of the fence that I mentioned earlier.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Now I'm responding to things before you even post them. Predictable much?

What do you mean? You accused me of being personal because I asked you a question that wasn't actually personal in any meaningful sense, and then embarked on an absolutely personal rant about me. Which you extend in your latest diatribe.

Now that is hypocrisy.

This is the kind of worthless commentary you feed on here, that actually has no significance whatsoever. You have no idea whether or not I'm "doing anything about it," or what that would even mean to me according to my own beliefs, which you also don't understand.

I have every idea. I know you're keen to paint a simple request for information about what you consider to be your "practical efforts" as achingly personal, but it isn't. And your failure to provide any evidence at all that you're anything more than a slavering nobody banging away on obscure internet forums hardly helps your case.

You make so many assumptions and leaps of logic within even a single sentence that I'm just trying to save you time by pointing out that all of this commentary is unscientific gobbledy-gook that could have equally run out of a FOX "News" anchors' mouth, and which is probably where you get all this crap.

The observation that you are failing to provide any evidence of your efforts to bring publicity to your suspicions about 9/11 is "unscientific" certainly. But that doesn't mean that it's irrelevant. I'm examining your motives and the motives of people who share similar beliefs to you, and I'm finding them odd. Your efforts to marginalise such an examination are unsurprising, but they are also evasive and filled with logical fallacies.

I'm not ranting and I'm not providing "gobbledy gook". I'm making a simple enquiry and it's making you uncomfortable. I can see why, but that doesn't give you the right to mischaracterise it.

It's not remarkable that I wouldn't be inclined to divulge what all I do in my personal life to you, especially if you had any real idea about my personal life. If you really think it's that remarkable then why don't you volunteer yourself to describe your personal life to me, and what all you do away from the computer?

It has nothing to do with your "personal" life. Quite the opposite. I'm asking what you do to help ameliorate the situation in your country as you see it. If the answer - as I suspect - is next to nothing, then I'm forced to conclude that you aren't serious about the substance of your views.

As to what I do - nothing. But why should I? I'm not from the US and I don't think 9/11 was an inside job.

How is that not appropriate? Is anything you're talking about here scientific? No. Does any of it follow any kind of logical method? No. It's not objective in any sense at all. It's opinionated, subjective MSM-style ranting that's invariously aimed at assassinating my character. That's your whole obvious point here, and that's what you're trying to bring to the discussion.

You're claiming the logical high ground after suggesting that I "spit in your face"? And you think that I'm trying to assassinate your character? When you've just written two posts filled with furious personal attacks and a grotesque mischaracterisation of what I asked you.

Extraordinary.

Hold on, wait a minute. Is anything you're talking about here actually scientific? No. Does it have a logical point in any way shape or form? No. I just thought I would repeat it a second time in the hopeless attempt for you to read and comprehend.

What is this fascination with science? By your reckoning we should throw out anything that doesn't directly deal with science? In that case I suppose Charlie Sheen's rantings are of no worth either...

Although in your mind Charlie's got lots of logical points

Can you see how far you've moved from a reasonable stance on this?

Honestly one of the reasons I come to these forums is so I can express the feelings I have for people like you, to people like you.

I thought so. Rather than actually being a spur to doing anything, your views are a way for you to feel superior. That's the point of my enquiry, and you're proving my suspicions right.

And let me clarify. All throughout history there are people who stick to sound reasoning and judgment, and there is the mass who unconsciously follows whatever the flavor of the month is, employing any number of illogical arguments and complete nonsense to justify it.

I'm sure you think that you're the one employing sound reasoning and I'm the one that's employing nonsense. But I have actual proof for my point. Look at the conversation you are conducting right now. You are trying to turn the thread into a character assassination by dissecting my private life. It would be no use to tell you that this is a logical fallacy, as if you had any stated logical point you were trying to make in the first place, because you don't apparently don't know the difference between logic and a fallacy, or don't understand the significance of this difference. And that is my proof that, provided by this thread alone, of who is on which side of the fence that I mentioned earlier.

Because I ask you a question I'm committing a "logical fallacy"? I'm "dissecting your private life"? I'm doing neither.

You're absolutely at liberty to respond that it's none of my business how you conduct your "infowar" campaign, or what you do to further your cause. But I am also at liberty to draw my own conclusions from that.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

Originally posted by bsbray11
Now I'm responding to things before you even post them. Predictable much?

What do you mean?

Study the part where I quote myself. I quoted my own post that came immediately before yours, to respond to what you said. I responded to what you said, before you said it. Because I knew where you would choose to take issue with my words, again picking a totally worthless semantic argument that has nothing at all to do with 9/11 and everything to do with trolling.

Hold on, wait a minute. Is anything you're talking about here actually scientific? No. Does it have a logical point in any way shape or form? No. I just thought I would repeat it a second time in the hopeless attempt for you to read and comprehend.

What is this fascination with science? By your reckoning we should throw out anything that doesn't directly deal with science? In that case I suppose Charlie Sheen's rantings are of no worth either...

Saying that 9/11 needs to be re-investigated is somehow in disagreement with reason? I don't think so, considering you can't prove any of your zealous beliefs as it is, no matter how hard you believe in them. The only way to arrive at real answers is to do a real investigation.

Because I ask you a question I'm committing a "logical fallacy"?

If you think there is some point to your question then yes, because what will undoubtedly amount to an ad hominem is not by any stretch of the imagination a logical argument about anything. And if you weren't trying to make a point, frankly I don't like you enough to tell you anything more about myself than what's necessary to tell you that you're full of it, and that isn't much.

But I am also at liberty to draw my own conclusions from that.

You've been free to draw whatever conclusions about anything all your life, and that's why we're in such a disagreement already. When you draw conclusions you apparently are fond of using fallacious reasoning.