#911truthwinning: A call to all infowarriors aka how i learned to stop worrying and love Charlie Sh

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Er, no, it's my perception based on what you wrote. You said that most Americans hadn't seen Building 7 fall, which strikes me as a bit of a failure on your part.

Most Americans didn't support our revolution against Britain, either. Big difference that made when push came to shove, because the majority of people were too apathetic or ignorant to do anything about anything anyway, so they didn't even factor in to the equation. That's the way it usually is in society. The point is I'm not aiming for 100% public approval before a new investigation is undertaken, and I really don't care who else agrees with me as long as I think there needs to be another investigation, and if you don't like that sentiment there are plenty of more worthwhile people for you to cry about it to.

Something else you might want to think about. All those ignorant people who have never even heard of WTC7, probably believe the same thing you do, just because they've never heard any differently, or wouldn't even be able to maturely consider differently. You can even count Penn & Teller among those ignorant masses, who also have never even seen WTC7 fall. If knowledge is power, they sure don't have it. Just thought I would acquaint you with the majority of your emotional "support base" since numbers matter so much to you.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Here is how it is, Cupcake. There needs to be a reason for a reinvestigation such as new evidence.

And let me tell you something else, sweet pea. Many people that are much more intelligent than yourself are inevitably going to stumble upon the same information I have, and I'm not even going to bother telling you what the result of that is going to be. As far as I'm aware most Americans have still not even seen WTC7 fall. Face reality.

Many people much more intelligent than you have already seen, processed, and rejected the stuff available on the net. The result that you are not going to bother to tell me is that exactly nothing will happen as has been the case for the last ten years. No new evidence, no reinvestigation, son.

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by bsbray11

Here is how it is, Cupcake. There needs to be a reason for a reinvestigation such as new evidence.

And let me tell you something else, sweet pea. Many people that are much more intelligent than yourself are inevitably going to stumble upon the same information I have, and I'm not even going to bother telling you what the result of that is going to be. As far as I'm aware most Americans have still not even seen WTC7 fall. Face reality.

Many people much more intelligent than you have already seen, processed, and rejected the stuff available on the net. The result that you are not going to bother to tell me is that exactly nothing will happen as has been the case for the last ten years. No new evidence, no reinvestigation, son.

Wow. How low can you stoop? An appeal to the authority of the crowd ("many people more intelligent than you . . ."), a small crowd no doubt! That's quite the superior intellectual position!

Why are you afraid of a reinvestigation? You perpetuate ignorance by opposing it. You're the blind throwing sand into the eyes of those who would see.

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by bsbray11

Here is how it is, Cupcake. There needs to be a reason for a reinvestigation such as new evidence.

And let me tell you something else, sweet pea. Many people that are much more intelligent than yourself are inevitably going to stumble upon the same information I have, and I'm not even going to bother telling you what the result of that is going to be. As far as I'm aware most Americans have still not even seen WTC7 fall. Face reality.

Many people much more intelligent than you have already seen, processed, and rejected the stuff available on the net. The result that you are not going to bother to tell me is that exactly nothing will happen as has been the case for the last ten years. No new evidence, no reinvestigation, son.

Well they obviously didn't "process" the information.

You don't need to be intelligent you just need to think for yourself and objectively analyze the information.

You can be a genius but if you never actually THINK it doesn't help.

reply to post by pteridine

Many people much more intelligent than you have already seen, processed, and rejected the stuff available on the net.

Those are your assumption you have no evidence to support your allegations.

The result that you are not going to bother to tell me is that exactly nothing will happen as has been the case for the last ten years.

You do not know what the future holds for a new investigation into the WTC demise. Only wishful thinking on your part.

No new evidence, no reinvestigation, son

Fact is science has discovered new evidence, just because you hand wave everything don’t expect the rest of ATS to embrace in your ignorance.

It doesn't make sense that anyone would not want a new investigation. If the OS is correct what do you care?

The only reason would be you know the OS is a lie and for some reason you don't want anyone else to know.

If I had committed a crime got away with it I wouldn't want a new investigation either, but if I was found innocent of a crime I didn't commit, then why would I care if someone wanted to re-investigate it?

reply to post by ANOK


It makes sense if it is a waste of time and money. I am disinterested in the outcome but do not see any reason to do so.

reply to post by dubiousone


Show cause for a new investigation and I would not oppose it. So far, there is no cause for such.

reply to post by pteridine

Show cause for a new investigation and I would not oppose it. So far, there is no cause for such.

If you don’t believe there is no cause for a new investigation then you certainly have demonstrated your lack of logical thinking and are wallowing in ignorance. It’s a good thing that most of the ATS members do not agree with you.

reply to post by impressme


"Most of the ATS members?" You are invited to show that. I recommend a poll of all members and a definition of "most" on your part.

reply to post by pteridine


ATS already did a poll:

www.abovetopsecret.com...










So why does the number of people that agree with you matter so much to you?

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by ANOK

 

It makes sense if it is a waste of time and money. I am disinterested in the outcome but do not see any reason to do so.

Do you know how much money is being wasted on the war that was a result of 911? My guess though is you don't think that is a waste huh?

costofwar.com...

How much money is being spent right now to keep the OS from being ripped wide open for all the public to see and be unable to deny....

Originally posted by bsbray11

Most Americans didn't support our revolution against Britain, either. Big difference that made when push came to shove, because the majority of people were too apathetic or ignorant to do anything about anything anyway, so they didn't even factor in to the equation.

Unfortunately you would figure in the "apathetic" bracket when it comes to 9/11, wouldn't you? You openly admit that despite your suspicions of a criminal coup by your own government you choose not to bother with serious campaigning.

I'm not sure that you have much in common with the people who actually made the revolution happen. But don't worry, the vast majority of truthers are exactly the same. Outside of arguing here they don't do anything either.

That's the way it usually is in society. The point is I'm not aiming for 100% public approval before a new investigation is undertaken, and I really don't care who else agrees with me as long as I think there needs to be another investigation, and if you don't like that sentiment there are plenty of more worthwhile people for you to cry about it to.

Exactly. You don't care. Which is kind of a synonym for apathy.

The point is that whatever one thinks of the arguments for or against the "truth movement" this is not a strategy that will meet with practical success.

"I think there should be a revolution."

"Great! What are you doing to help shift the yoke of our brutal British paymasters?"

"..."

Something else you might want to think about. All those ignorant people who have never even heard of WTC7, probably believe the same thing you do, just because they've never heard any differently, or wouldn't even be able to maturely consider differently. You can even count Penn & Teller among those ignorant masses, who also have never even seen WTC7 fall. If knowledge is power, they sure don't have it. Just thought I would acquaint you with the majority of your emotional "support base" since numbers matter so much to you.

edit on 15-3-2011 by bsbray11 because: (no reason given)

This is a logical fallacy, because it ignores all the people who do look into 9/11, then decide there's not that much of an issue, but don't bother to advocate their position. You have no evidence at all to suggest that the majority of people with "expertise" in the issue are Truthers. I was going to say that they're just the most vocal, but that's too strong a word for the kind of internet posturing that most are engaged in.

And it goes without saying that you've skipped past the ramifications of this again. To reiterate: your failure to reach this "majority" of Americans is testament to the "truth" movement's ineffectiveness and apathy.

The endless argument with the debunker crowd is a complete waste of time.

Everyone who is interested in an honest investigation of 911 should just put them on permanent IGNORE. They bring nothing new to the table. It's always a rehash of the same old diversionary disinformation.

The debunker crowd are successful at what they do. They divert your attention from the goal of finally having an honest and credible investigation of 911 bringing justice to the real perpetrators and to all those who aided them, and compensation to all of their victims.

Quit debating with these people whose only objective is to derail your quest for the truth which will only be attained through a new investigation by an fully funded body with full investigatory, subpoena, and contempt powers. Let no-one be granted immunity. 911 was an extraordinary event. Getting to the truth will require extraordinary powers.

Put the debunkers (the derailers) on permanent IGNORE and maybe the truth movement will finally reach its goal. You want the truth. They don't want you to have it. It's that simple.

If they cared about the truth they would fully support a new investigation. Their opposition to it clearly reveals their agenda. Their opposition isn't based on the cost of a real investigation. The cost pales next to other wasteful government expenditures to which they have no objection.

Put the debunkers (the derailers) on permanent IGNORE so that something productive can finally happen.

I don't think most debunkers are honestly against a new investigation...But I think most just see it as a waste of time and money since the reports that have been researched and compiled haven't been proven untrue or factually wrong.

Just looking at the NIST report:
"Some 200 technical experts—including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia—reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse. "

Yet most posters here are absolutely CONVINCED that 9/11 was controlled demolition simply from watching one YouTube video of a building being collapsed.

While there are some very educated Truthers on here, the vast majority are VERY uneducated on the actual facts of 9/11, and VERY ignorant on what the official reports actually say. Their entire argument is simply "Well I KNOW that 9/11 was an inside job, there's nothing you can say to convince me, I saw this one video on YouTube..."



And then you guys wonder why we can't take you seriously when you clamor for a new investigation.

reply to post by Tosskey


Who elected you to decide the level of understanding of the 'official reports' required for one to be taken seriously? What part of the OS don't people know enough about? You're just another de-bunk A-hole trying to muddy the water. Come back when you have something sensible to add.

Originally posted by dillweed
reply to post by Tosskey

 

Who elected you to decide the level of understanding of the 'official reports' required for one to be taken seriously? What part of the OS don't people know enough about? You're just another de-bunk A-hole trying to muddy the water. Come back when you have something sensible to add.

Elected? What are you talking about?

I've just noticed and corrected a few Truthers on misrepresenting and misinterpreting basic facts in the report. Most of the time, the report says EXACTLY what they are saying, but they claim that the report does not. (For example: The entire right wing enterting the Pentagon).

And how am I muddying the waters? If you can factually prove that the official reports are wrong, or misleading with actual facts - I will clamor for a new investigation right along with you. Actual facts being the key part of that. Random images or YouTube videos don't prove anything.

This site is about denying ignorance. Or is it okay to be ignorant only if you think it's a conspiracy?

reply to post by Tosskey


They are adamantly against it.

It's their post-911 purpose in life to prevent a genuinely probing investigation with the financial backing and legal tools that are needed to establish what really happened, whodunnit, and how.

You can't be seriously arguing after having read the debunker crowd's posts on ATS and elsewhere over the past decade that they support an honest investigation. If you do believe they do, then please direct me to their posts where they are calling for it to happen.

The investigators, scientists, architects, and engineers who were in positions that depended on government funds or which were government related during the Bush/Cheney years did not dare to whisper disagreement with the official position on 911. So, why would you trust the analysis and conclusions coming from those sources?

Promptly after 911 Bush declared from his official podium that if you ain't with him you're a'gin him and that no-one should dare question the official version of 911. People who wished to keep their jobs didn't dare say a word. Even today the people in prominent positions who express doubt over 911 are attacked and there are calls for their dismissal.

The fear of repurcussions for questioning the official gospel of 911 still runs deep in the USA.

reply to post by Tosskey

Yet most posters here are absolutely CONVINCED that 9/11 was controlled demolition simply from watching one YouTube video of a building being collapsed.

You might want to read these technical papers done by experts who have examined the visual evidence of demolition at the WTC. It was these professionals who confronted NIST and their “pseudo science” and demanded NIST to make some changes in their report. You herd that right, the NIST report is a fraud, so before you defend NIST you need to learn what the experts are saying about it. Most debunkers even on ATS do not support NIST because their science cannot stand up to scrutiny.

www.ae911truth.org...

If these technical papers can’t wake you up, then perhaps nothing will.
No YouTube videos ever convince me the OS was a lie. I did a lot of research ( six years) to come to my conclusions, that most of the OS is a lie, and the fact is there is no evidence that can conclusively support the OS.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Unfortunately you would figure in the "apathetic" bracket when it comes to 9/11, wouldn't you?

It would stimulate you if I did, wouldn't it?

You openly admit that despite your suspicions of a criminal coup by your own government you choose not to bother with serious campaigning.

Where did I say that? Now you really can't distinguish your fantasies from reality.

What you define as "serious campaigning" is probably the most asinine thing someone could think of from the comfort of their own computer chair. I'm not worried about it.

Exactly. You don't care. Which is kind of a synonym for apathy.

I don't care who agrees with me insofar as I want a new investigation anyway. Not, I don't care as in, I'm not here wasting my time with a multiple-account-making 'shady trick' of a troll. If you choose not to distinguish then I'm sure it'll just be one more reason you're whole trolling shtick is blatantly off.

The point is that whatever one thinks of the arguments for or against the "truth movement" this is not a strategy that will meet with practical success.

"I think there should be a revolution."

"Great! What are you doing to help shift the yoke of our brutal British paymasters?"

"..."

That about reflects the mentality of someone who can barely even comprehend that a lot of shady stuff happened around 9/11 that wasn't investigated, and then apparently hits an opaque wall when trying to grasp the mentality of those who already have comprehended this. Maybe the biggest part of that opaque wall of yours is that you like to think that all "truthers" think the exact same thing.

This is a logical fallacy, because it ignores all the people who do look into 9/11, then decide there's not that much of an issue, but don't bother to advocate their position.

I never said anything about what they would decide after looking at any information, only that the uninformed ones likely automatically believe generally the same thing you do only because it's what the MSM mantra'd for so many years, regardless of not knowing about WTC7 or so many other lesser known facts. Take that to mean what you will. So no, I made no fallacy; you misinterpreted my point.

You have no evidence at all to suggest that the majority of people with "expertise" in the issue are Truthers.

I never made that claim either, but now that you mention it, it's not like you can show lists of 1000's of people who think we already know everything that's important and shouldn't bother anymore.

To reiterate: your failure to reach this "majority" of Americans is testament to the "truth" movement's ineffectiveness and apathy.

No, it's not. It's only an indication of what we have known all along, that MSM sources that everyone seems to rely on by default make people borderline retarded but at the same time are almost impossible to compete with. That's why I said we need money. Money is the only thing that gets you as much media attention as everything else gets, like Britney Spears or all the coverage of propaganda on Fox News to brainwash so many people into thinking that Saddam had something to do with 9/11. AE911 is the organization closest to doing anything like this, and the more money it makes, the more "debunkers" like you foam at the mouth about a charlatan.