Europe's Muslims and Jews Unite to Fight Food-Labeling Proposal

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by The Djin

 

What the hell has circumcism got to do with the topic at hand??????????????????????

The fight against food labeling is an attempt to demand the continuation of religious privilege, yes I may sound as though I'm going off the extreme edge of craziness but I'm merely looking at the wider picture

I am not going to eat meat,
that has been ritual slaughtered to there God.
they use to kill humans this way to!
even there own family.
look in the bible.

then just label the food that has not
been slaughtered to a god or demon.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

Its a few seconds if done properly.

What about child birth? Its far more painful.

Its actually one of the most painful things a human female can ever experience.

What about child birth? It's voluntary! There's absolutely no symmetry in the situation... Animals aren't opting to be killed.

There's a collosal difference

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

But it is not the equivalent of a bullet, see, that is the point. A bullet would straight out kill you. These "bolts to the head" don't do that at all.

There is a chance a bullet won't kill you straight away either. As to the captive bolt pistol, see:
en.wikipedia.org...

It knocks you out and that's what matter.

And the comparison to boxing is a bit dangerous- when someone is knocked out during boxing, they're only really "out of it" for a couple of seconds....if that is what happens with animals, that they are definitely worse off...first they get the discomfort and pain of being smashed in the head (or zapped with electricity)

Relax, they are out of it.

As to boxing, did you ever see a match? How come they count till ten? With captive bolt, they may as well count till 1000.

Furthermore those who say you must eat meat please watch Food Inc.
That'll shake your cage!

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by NadaCambia

 

But in that sense, slamming a high-speed bolt to the forehead of the animal is also torture. Or zapping them with an electric shock powerful enough in many cases to cause cardiac arrest is also painful. I could understand it if this was coming from the point of view of a vegan or something, but most of the rest of the world eats meat.

Not that I'm supporting longer, more drawn out slaughters or anything, but do you realise how long some animal chases last from the first swipe of the predator, until it starts eating? In most cases, several minutes, during which the frightened, painfully wounded prey is running for it's life in a hopeless escape.

And...err....this might be a bit in bad taste considering the context of this thread, but

Originally posted by NadaCambia
Oh and by the way, you fight like a Dairy Farmer!

How appropriate, you fight like a cow

(Good to know there are people of such refined tastes on ATS..now just to hope that my comments aren't taken the wrong way

)

Oh of course. I wasn't trying to argue Western vs Halal methods, I actually don't eat meat myself . The way I see it though, with both methods, large scale farming is the problem. The bigger the scale of production, the more mistakes are made, the sloppier companies are. Halal meat from small independent farmers and businesses will likely be done 'correctly' and more humanely. Ditto for Western methods.

I see it in the same way I view political ideologiess; They all work great with small communities, but as soon as the community and government grows the systems seem to fail.

It's probably a matter of semantics here too. For me, voluntarily inflicting harm/death for pleasure is torture. No matter how short or 'humane' the death.

Originally posted by zcflint05

Originally posted by glen200376
This halal nonsense is ridiculous in the U.K.Places such as subway and most fast food joints now sell only halal,personly surely I should have a choice to eat or not halal/kosher meat?Mcdonalds is about the only place that doesn't sell it-that's why I eat there only.Usually the E.U. makes silly annoying rules but this one I'm all for,not only do we pander to these people,we now have to eat like them.Another example of muslims and jews forcing their customs on us.They know that in for example Britain that we bend over and take it up the ass from them because everyone is afraid to disagree with them incase they cry discrimination.Well I for one am sick of us Brits discriminating against ourselves.I an not afraid of being branded a racist,I am infact quite proud to be a racist if that's what you want to call me but bottom line,if they aren't happy here go back to your homeland.If all these muslims and jews had stayed in there own countries and tried to changes things there perhaps it would have evolved from the dark ages and might be a nicer and safer place now.

edit on 29/12/2010 by glen200376 because: (no reason given)

This seems to combine the two things, Jews and Muslims, that Europeans hate the most. For such an "enlightened" continent, the racism is rather obvious. No one is forcing you to buy halal or kosher food, the simple fact is, you have a choice to buy kosher or halal, and you can choose no. So can you explain how you actively made a choice not to purchase these foods in your very post (by going to a place that doesn't sell), so how can you say anything is being forced on you? It just sounds like another person who is hateful against Jews and Muslims in Europe, by using some BS excuse about food choice as a reason to go on a rant against minorities.

Get a clue on this, racist:
1) If the majority of Muslims wanted to take over Europe, then they probably would have made more of a impact now. I know that Muslims praying scares you, but trust me, much like most people, all they want to do is live a peaceful life. And get this---Christians have killed plenty of people in the name of Jesus. The crusades, perhaps? Maybe all the abortion bombings in the US? Or the una-bomber? All groups of religious fundamentalism do stupid things, the difference is that Christians are white people.

2)and the biggest "terrorist incident" was created by white Europeans who murderered millions of Jews, gays, and gypsies in the name of Aryanism (a religion), less than 100 years ago.

This is a religious issue, it has nothing to do with race. That you can't seperate the 2 is a poor reflection on your own train of thought. It's also worth mentioning that Europe isn't the Christian hotbed you seem to think. We're largely Agnostic/Atheist.

Your views are no less bigoted and hateful than those you responded to.

On a side note. Hitler was inspired largely by American Eugenics, was supported by American business, American politicians and a good percentage of America in general. There's something your Hollywood movies won't tell you

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by GodIsPissed

 

We do need to eat meat, we're designed to eat meat. You cannot get all of the necessary nutrients solely from eating Lentils...

Actually you can, and some. There seems to be massive confusion about this, people confuse what's necessary and what's optimum. Eating a standard diet with some good meat is the most beneficial to health. However, not eating meat doesn't leave you short of vital nutrients. This is a myth. Vegetarians are perfectly healthy.

It's dishonest for meat eaters to pretend they're doing it for health reasons, because 99% aren't. You'd get alot more respect if you just accepted you enjoy the taste and that's why you eat it.

Just because you don't eat meat doesn't make it right to force your non-meat eating ways on another.

If people want their meat slaughtered a certain way MORE POWER TO THEM.

Case closed...

Animals shouldn't have rights THEY ARE ANIMALS.

In the same sense people should use their brain and not go out of their way to *hurt* animals.

If people want to fight bulls, fight the bulls, you want to fight dogs then fight them, same with cock fighting.

IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO PARTICIPATE DOESN'T MEAN I WOULD!!!

Forcing people into things doesn't stop anything it just hides it from public knowledge.

To be honest, my question is, What the hell does it really matter how my cow, pig, chicken, or goat died before I eat it. If you're are a vegetarian then why would you even care. Being in the boyscouts, JROTC, Military, I had to slaughter quite a few animals inhumanly to survive, or learn how to survive. I really dont care who god the beast was slain for, cause it all gonna pass through my intestines and out my anus the same why the genetically modifies cows that are killed "humanly" pass through. If you dont believe in a god, which most on ATS dont, then it really doesnt matter to who, why or how the beast was slain.

Killing animals just for the hell of it, or to wear it for fashion, I agree is not the most positive thing to do. But if its for food, I dont care if you tape a couple sticks of dynamite to its ass and blow to bits, atleast you know the meat will be quite tender and ready to be smoked.

Originally posted by thecinic
Just because you don't eat meat doesn't make it right to force your non-meat eating ways on another.

If people want their meat slaughtered a certain way MORE POWER TO THEM.

Case closed...

Animals shouldn't have rights THEY ARE ANIMALS.

In the same sense people should use their brain and not go out of their way to *hurt* animals.

If people want to fight bulls, fight the bulls, you want to fight dogs then fight them, same with cock fighting.

IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO PARTICIPATE DOESN'T MEAN I WOULD!!!

Forcing people into things doesn't stop anything it just hides it from public knowledge.

Who's forcing anything? Making arguments isn't force, it's called debate. When I say vegetarians are healthy, that's not force. When I say killing an animal is torture, that's not force. Nobody is forcing anything on you. You're the only person in this thread trying to shout down people with caplocks.

Why shouldn't animals have rights, because they're less intelligent? Okay, maybe I'll kill and eat you. You don't strike me as the brightest of individuals.

reply to post by thecinic

Animals shouldn't have rights THEY ARE ANIMALS.

Animals should have some rights, and do have in modern society. One of them is right to not be subjected to cruelty.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


You use thw word "torturing" rather lightly. Kosher and Halal animals are killed by a single cut through the kneck which severs all of the major arteries. The people who prepare Kosher and Halal meat go out of their way to treat the animal with dignity and if they fail to perform an adequate cut that kills the animal in moments, they take it as a failure and the meat is not Kosher or Halal. Cock-ups can happen in any form of slaughtering. Atleast with Kosher and Halal the slaughtering is done by a human with respect to the animal. Non-Kosher and Halal meat is sent through an assembly line that also fails at times to slaughter the animal as intended. The difference between these two failures is that with Kosher and Halal, the animal slowly exsanguinates from an imprecise cut to the kneck whereas a failure by the machine to properly incapacitate and slaughter an animal leads to it being ripped limb from limb while conscious.

As for making it illegal, you guys are ignorant morons. "I don't want my meat sacrificed according to a 3000 year old tome written by a bunch of dusty goat herders"

reply to post by Unity_99

If such a situation arose where I had to choose some method by which I would be killed, I would probably choose beheading or the guillotine. In my case there is no issue of anyone needed to eat my meat afterwards, so rotting from lack of exsanguination or cranial fluid entering the bloodstream would not be a problem.

reply to post by buddhasystem

Originally posted by buddhasystem
It knocks you out and that's what matter.

According to the link you provided, using the penetrating stunner, there is the issue of mad cow disease (from the brain fluid entering the blood stream), or a chance of NOT being knocked unconscious if one uses the non-penetrating stunner.
All of this being moot point, of course, because the article also states that it has been discontinued, because of the risk of spreading disease.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Relax, they are out of it.

As to boxing, did you ever see a match? How come they count till ten? With captive bolt, they may as well count till 1000.

Relax, they're out of it with the cut to the throat also.
And as for boxing, I admit, I don't watch it every day or something, but it was a very rare match I saw where the opponent was KOed and STAYED unconscious for the whole countdown. They usually regain consciousness, and are either unable to get up in time or not. If he did remain unconscious for the whole 10 count, there's some serious brain damage going on there.
And no, counting till 1000 with the captive bolt stunner will probably get the animal to regain consciousness, or at least at some level begin to register pain. I don't know if you were exaggerating, but that isn't really true.


Now if someone is approaching this from the vegetarian perspective, that is (pardon the pun ) a whole other kettle of fish. I suppose through some exhaustive investigation, one would be able to find the right combination of lentils and vegetables and such so as to be able to replace meat (more likely they'd have to resort to some sort of disgusting processed stuff). BUT, regularly obtaining such stuff is not within the budget or capabilities of everyone. And even if it was, WHY? Why should we not eat animals? It is completely natural. Our bodies have been designed (or at least evolved into being able) to eat meat.


And in the spirit of this rare show of Jewish and Muslim collaboration in the face of the militaristic vegan crowd (j/k), and to lighten up the mood a bit, here is a peace anthem for us all to join in on:

reply to post by thecinic

Animals shouldn't have rights THEY ARE ANIMALS.

Well seeing how this is ATS and all, I can't let that go by without asking -

If Mr Grey is actually abducting people with the blessing of TPTB in order to Snakrite will you concede that you have no rights if Mr Grey comes calling at your house for a biped lunch ?

reply to post by kallisti36

Kosher and Halal animals are killed by a single cut through the kneck which severs all of the major arteries. The people who prepare Kosher and Halal meat go out of their way to treat the animal with dignity and if they fail to perform an adequate cut that kills the animal in moments, they take it as a failure and the meat is not Kosher or Halal.

I have to say I cannot disagree but as previous posters have mentioned economics of industrial meat production and pressure to meet quotas may leave the doors wide open for cherry picking of religious doctrine when it comes to slaughter.

I don't know about the US but in the UK, especially since the outbreaks of BSE and foot and mouth there has been a huge clamp down on policing the slaughter of animals.

Meat production plants are now stringently checked by what is known as the Meat Hygiene Services with vigorous inspection by the veterinary services.

I really don't think the discussion is about how the animal is killed (not that it is any less important ) but that strict standards should apply to all and not be compromised for the sake of fear of offending some invisible man in the sky.

We simply cannot proceed as societies with separate rules for the religious, if they want to pray over a goat in Libya well carry on, but in the Host country the goat will be slaughtered according to legislation period, if they don't like it then go eat goat in Libya.

Killing a living being to eat it when you don't need to is wrong.There are vitamins if you are so worried about the nutrients you need..but they don't taste good do they?

reply to post by NadaCambia

Why shouldn't animals have rights, because they're less intelligent? Okay, maybe I'll kill and eat you. You don't strike me as the brightest of individuals.

Come and try it bucko!

Your ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), also known as argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.[1] The ad hominem is a classic logical fallacy,[2]

Does not work on me...

No animals shouldn't have rights because THEY ARE NOT HUMAN!!!

Sounds like someone would try and pro-create with a few animals, seems to me someone likes horses a little to much.

No one is advocating hurting animals that are not used as food!!

That said as humans should have enough common sense
without needing animal right laws and dumb
*WARNING LABELS* on slaughtering technique.

It's silly!!!!

If people want to breed cats and dogs in America to eat them
NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO TELL THEM THEY CAN'T!!

reply to post by The Djin


I'm not afraid of any MR. gray alien coming to eat me.
There is NO SUCH THING!!
Another ad hominem attack that does not bother me.
Just because it is ATS does not give anyone the right to be a blatant moron
telling people because of their opinion on animal rights
*wad if it a alians cames to eats u*
IS SILLY!!!!

Originally posted by thecinic
lSounds like someone would try and pro-create with a few animals, seems to me someone likes horses a little to much.

lol is that even an insult?
He is saying animals deserves rights and that means he's into bestiality???

What kind of kool-aid you drinking?

Anyhow, explain to me something
How do animals deserve no right because they are less than humans?
Explain how humans are better please

Thanks