Europe's Muslims and Jews Unite to Fight Food-Labeling Proposal

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

The animals are not tortured.

The entire point of Kosher and Halal slaughter is to be as painless as possible.

But there is pain, so it's torture.

You might not be strapping them to tables and waterboarding them, but it's still torture.

reply to post by NadaCambia


Its a few seconds if done properly.

What about child birth? Its far more painful.

Its actually one of the most painful things a human female can ever experience.

To be honest, I prefer to eat meat that I have shot, and butchered myself. A lot of meat out there on the market is bad for you in so many ways. Cows that are fed corn instead of grass because it is cheaper. Shot with who knows what while it was alive, then who knows what was added, or what things have been done to the meat once it is slaughtered "for our safety". The meat I buy is from a free range local farm, I see how the animals are treated, and what they have been fed. They haven't been shot up with some chemical concontion, or various hormones.

reply to post by TKDRL


That is ideal.

We need to have a return to that, where we deal with local farms instead of mass market "meat" at Walmart.

_________________

Here is some basic info. to those 99% of you who
do not even know what halal is but are just going by
speculative misinformation :

Wikipedia 101

This method of slaughter opens the circulatory system, which is at high pressure, to the air, causing pressure to equalize and the blood pressure in the brain to fall to zero.As the brain requires a constant flow of blood under pressure for the animal to retain consciousness, anemia of the brain causes loss of awareness and perception.

As for adding additional labels, kosher and
Halal food products are labeled NOW ALREADY
people just need to learn how to read them.

Most common kosher symbols:






________________

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Yeah it is ideal, but it is realistic? Factory farms put old fashioned farms out of business like crazy. Unless you live in a rural area, there are no local farms, let alone local freerange farms. Factory farms are not even close to a level playing field to regular farms. Hell, factory farmers in upstate NY are actively buying up all the regular farms in the area, just to quell the competition. They know farmers that do not practice what they do cannot compete, and will sell out unless they are stubborn. Up here it is a bit different, thank god. It is a bit more money than going to the big chain stores, but it is worth it. I buy a whole cow, between me pops and an uncle or two, and we got beef for a year. The guy doesn't mind if I come down and watch him kill, slaughter and butcher it, just to make sure there is no shinanigans going on. It will be sad when he is too old to carry on, his son has no interest in carrying on the family business, that has been passed down for a few generations now.

reply to post by NadaCambia

But in that sense, slamming a high-speed bolt to the forehead of the animal is also torture. Or zapping them with an electric shock powerful enough in many cases to cause cardiac arrest is also painful. I could understand it if this was coming from the point of view of a vegan or something, but most of the rest of the world eats meat.

Not that I'm supporting longer, more drawn out slaughters or anything, but do you realise how long some animal chases last from the first swipe of the predator, until it starts eating? In most cases, several minutes, during which the frightened, painfully wounded prey is running for it's life in a hopeless escape.

And...err....this might be a bit in bad taste considering the context of this thread, but

Originally posted by NadaCambia
Oh and by the way, you fight like a Dairy Farmer!

How appropriate, you fight like a cow

(Good to know there are people of such refined tastes on ATS..now just to hope that my comments aren't taken the wrong way )

I'm never going to eat halal meat again, on-purpose, after i saw the way the animals are killed.

We have a butcher near us that i used to go to regularly. They served Halal meat, which I at the time only thought it meant that they didn't sell pork, and their meat is untouched by pork. Unfortunately I was wrong.

Originally posted by glen200376
This halal nonsense is ridiculous in the U.K.Places such as subway and most fast food joints now sell only halal,personly surely I should have a choice to eat or not halal/kosher meat?Mcdonalds is about the only place that doesn't sell it-that's why I eat there only.Usually the E.U. makes silly annoying rules but this one I'm all for,not only do we pander to these people,we now have to eat like them.Another example of muslims and jews forcing their customs on us.They know that in for example Britain that we bend over and take it up the ass from them because everyone is afraid to disagree with them incase they cry discrimination.Well I for one am sick of us Brits discriminating against ourselves.I an not afraid of being branded a racist,I am infact quite proud to be a racist if that's what you want to call me but bottom line,if they aren't happy here go back to your homeland.If all these muslims and jews had stayed in there own countries and tried to changes things there perhaps it would have evolved from the dark ages and might be a nicer and safer place now.

edit on 29/12/2010 by glen200376 because: (no reason given)

This seems to combine the two things, Jews and Muslims, that Europeans hate the most. For such an "enlightened" continent, the racism is rather obvious. No one is forcing you to buy halal or kosher food, the simple fact is, you have a choice to buy kosher or halal, and you can choose no. So can you explain how you actively made a choice not to purchase these foods in your very post (by going to a place that doesn't sell), so how can you say anything is being forced on you? It just sounds like another person who is hateful against Jews and Muslims in Europe, by using some BS excuse about food choice as a reason to go on a rant against minorities.

Get a clue on this, racist:
1) If the majority of Muslims wanted to take over Europe, then they probably would have made more of a impact now. I know that Muslims praying scares you, but trust me, much like most people, all they want to do is live a peaceful life. And get this---Christians have killed plenty of people in the name of Jesus. The crusades, perhaps? Maybe all the abortion bombings in the US? Or the una-bomber? All groups of religious fundamentalism do stupid things, the difference is that Christians are white people.

2)and the biggest "terrorist incident" was created by white Europeans who murderered millions of Jews, gays, and gypsies in the name of Aryanism (a religion), less than 100 years ago.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
That is ideal.

We need to have a return to that, where we deal with local farms instead of mass market "meat" at Walmart.

I don't what the law is in the US, but "local farms" in the UK are not allowed to perform their own slaughter of animals (for food purposes). It has to be done at an abbatoir.

And the vast majority of meat sold at tesco, Sainsburies etc is provided by these very same "local" farms you seem to want to go back to. Each piece of meat sold has labelling and coding on it that can enabled you to not only trace the farm it was reared on, but even identify the animal and it's lineage.

That said, I know food standards in the US are well below par, I mean, you have spray cheese in a can for crying out loud!

As for the poster who claims that the throat cutting will result in an immediate loss of conciousness, what rubbish. Maybe if done by a trained medical person, but those animals I have seen on that video and others are most certainly concious while the bleed to death with their necks gaping open. At least if it is stunned, the suffering is vastly reduced. I am not happy about killing animals, but I recognise I am an omnivore and I like meat, so if an animal has to die to feed me, then it should be with a minimum amount of fuss.

I also watched those vid's while eating a sausage sandwhich...

Originally posted by zcflint05
This seems to combine the two things, Jews and Muslims, that Europeans hate the most.

Do we? How so?

Originally posted by zcflint05
For such an "enlightened" continent, the racism is rather obvious. No one is forcing you to buy halal or kosher food, the simple fact is, you have a choice to buy kosher or halal, and you can choose no.

Someone didn't read the article. This is about precisely that, giving us a choice! At the moment, there is no way of knowing as they are trying to get labels added. Hence the article and this subsequent thread...

Originally posted by zcflint05
So can you explain how you actively made a choice not to purchase these foods in your very post (by going to a place that doesn't sell), so how can you say anything is being forced on you?

Because there is no labelling to tell us, again, read the article.

Originally posted by zcflint05
Get a clue on this, racist:
1) If the majority of Muslims wanted to take over Europe, then they probably would have made more of a impact now. I know that Muslims praying scares you, but trust me, much like most people, all they want to do is live a peaceful life. And get this---Christians have killed plenty of people in the name of Jesus. The crusades, perhaps? Maybe all the abortion bombings in the US? Or the una-bomber? All groups of religious fundamentalism do stupid things, the difference is that Christians are white people.

Who gives a monkeys left nut if Christians did what and when? You are being as biggotted by assuming that because someone is white, European and not a Jew/Muslim they must be Christian!

Originally posted by zcflint05
2)and the biggest "terrorist incident" was created by white Europeans who murderered millions of Jews, gays, and gypsies in the name of Aryanism (a religion), less than 100 years ago.

Actually, the Holocaust paled in insignificance when compared with the Chinese "great leap forward", or what the North Korean's have been up too, or what Stalin (a Jew) did to fellow Russians. Go look at what the Khmer Rouge got up too in just a couple of years, or the genocides in Africa. All of those put this so called "biggest terrorist incident" into perspective.

I know it's fashionable to think the Holocaust was the biggest evil the world has ever and will ever see, but it wasn't.

reply to post by stumason


We have horrible food standards. I won't lie, I miss the food in Europe.

To become a shochet, a person who performs Kosher slaughter, training involving surgical precision is required.

BTW, Stalin was not a Jew.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Was he not? I was misinformed about that particular detail then. Never the less, he was hardly a Christian either and was responsible for some quite horrible crimes.

I like the idea of the labelling

for once the EU seems to be on the right track..

Mmmm.. I wonder if perhaps there is more to this issue.

I remember receiving an email from a religious family member - some of my close relatives are VERY religious and, unfortunately, part of the "Israel can do no wrong and all Jews are to be revered" type.
Anyhoos, the upshot of the email concerned a petition that was to go to the government about the labeling of Halal meat, specifically, due to it being "blessed" under the Muslim faith. Seems the Christians are getting their knickers in a twist about this.
However, what immediately came to mind was, what about Jewish "Kosher" products and the "Kosher tax" applied to all Jew-Friendly products for clearance by Rabbis, which is a nice little earner for some in the Jewish community? They seemed very quiet on that subject at the time.

Now, all of a sudden the Jewish side is joining in on the labeling issue. I wonder if they somehow think this might bring ro light, more than it has done done in the past, the issue of the Kosher-Tax and they don't want to see this revenue source threatened in any way? Just thinkin'

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

Was he not? I was misinformed about that particular detail then. Never the less, he was hardly a Christian either and was responsible for some quite horrible crimes.

His parents were Georgian serfs of Eastern Orthodox faith. His mother wanted him to be a priest.

How different would the world have been. Trotsky, who was Jewish, instead of Stalin, in WW2. I hate to say it, but things might have been worse without Joe.

I think Hitler would have gave Mao a good run for his money, in the genocide dept, had he won.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


If done properly it's actually minimum 20 minutes !!!

Originally posted by weemadmental
reply to post by Kram09

 

What about on tuna they have dolphin friendly versions, ie caught without drift nets, same thing, you should know where you meat comes from and what sort of treatment it has had.

Wee Mad

A bit of Dolphin doesnt hurt is what I say

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

If done properly it's actually minimum 20 minutes !!!

If done properly hypovolemic shock will render the animal unconscious within seconds. It will take longer to die though, minutes. There's no blood going to the brain if done properly. This applies to any vertebrate animal, including humans. Sever the arteries to the brain and they quickly blackout. It will take a few more minutes for brain death.

Our governments (in EU) are not really doing smart things most of the time, but when they do, some groups will oppose it? I believe it is a fundamental right for the consumer to know what is eating. I want to know all about the food I eat - even a way to quantify if the food was produced under sustainable methods and so on.

For the minorities that feel frustrated - if we hide where and how our food got to the store, do not you think next time you could eat your traditional food while genetically modified without you even knowing? The label actually helps you to ensure the continuity of your traditions!