Europe's Muslims and Jews Unite to Fight Food-Labeling Proposal

LOL did you see that sheep being lobbed into the tray thing at 2.03 in the first vid?

Made my day!

Personally i prefer fresh natural meat.

ModernAcadamia, I think you are misinformed. Animal slaughter in the UK doesn't work purely on electrocution. The animal is zapped with a stun gun, and then bled out by having its throat cut (or being jabbed in the heart). That first video you posted was practising a bit of disinfo in that regard.

In fact, your use of the example of "this is why electrocution is used in executions" is also faulty- there were many many cases of the condemned surviving for several minutes after being electrocuted -probably one of the reasons why electrocution as a method of execution is actually being PHASED OUT. Not that lethal injection is any better- the funny thing about all these methods of execution (as well as slaughtering of animals) is that they're generally made for ease of the executor (or slaughterer), not the person being executed (or the animal being slaughtered). If they really cared about not causing pain to the prisoner to be executed, they'd guillotine.

Another point about those videos you posted- trying to prove that the animal is being "tortured" by showing all that shaking about by the animals is a bit misleading. Those are muscle reactions- the animal itself would have been rendered unconscious almost instantly because THERE IS NO BLOOD FLOWING INTO THE BRAIN. This versus a zap to the animal (which stops it from flapping about, it is true, although this only really benefits the onlookers.... the animal itself is still very much alive, and could possibly sense all the pain of the zap as well as the cut, if the zap wasn't done properly).

Although..it seems prudent to mention that the halal method of slaughter does not allow for the animal to be in the presence of other animals when it is slaughtered, and that the knife shouldn't be visible to the animal until the very last second. If the video you posted is actually showing "halal" slaughter being carried out, it should be noted that it isn't being done correctly.

So yeah, I'd repeat a previous posters question..what makes the non halal/kosher method MORE humane? If anything at all, some studies should be done. Studies done so far, show that the halal method is more humane than captive bolt stunning, at least.

It's really the animal-rights groups that's pushing these laws for labeling. These religious leaders will turn everything around and cry discrimination.

They're saying that "shechita, halal, gassing or electrocution" should be labeled to tell the difference. What's the difference?

To settle all this, I propose that two labels be put onto all meat products. One will say "Slaughetered by EU standards" and the other "Exempt from slaughter by EU standards."

The one thing I did find funny about the article is that during ritual slaughter, "animals must be alive when they are killed by having their throats slit". You can't kill something that's NOT alive!

reply to post by babloyi


Did you read the article?
This is not about electrocution this is about halal and kosher food

How you believe how it happens in the UK is irrelevant, the halal process is the halal process, same with kosher

I agree that these labels should go ahead. It's the same reason why I buy only free range eggs. Consumer needs to know what their money contributes to.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


The animals are not tortured.

What you have seen is what happens when the process isn't carried out correctly.

The entire point of Kosher and Halal slaughter is to be as painless as possible.

If done properly, the severing of the arteries results in massive hypovolemic shock within seconds and loss of consciousness.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Have you been on Youtube and watched Kosher ritual slaughters? Watch a couple then come back and tell me the animals don't appear to be suffering.

reply to post by bluemirage5


I have and they were not performed properly. I think this is one of the issues with our society that consumes so much beef. We process so many cows, that mistakes are often made. Sheep, goat and chicken would be better.

I personally don't like any processed meat, mistakes are made at Kosher and non Kosher meat processing plants.

I prefer fresh organic free range meat.

Go to Youtube and type in:

Agriprocessors kosher slaughterhouse - A 2nd investigation

You will find more on Youtube and worse than this one.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I'm sorry I disagree

(IMO) This has nothing to do with torture, rather has everything to do with the rise in hate within Europe.

(IMO) If this had anything to do with torture, then you wouldn't see this kind of torture in Europe:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7365bc3b1b21.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by bluemirage5


Agriprocessors is a great example of why I hate processed meat. They employed 400 illegal immigrants, mostly Guatemalans who processed the cows. What kind of crap is that? ICE raided them and ended that crap.

Thankfully they went bankrupt last year. After the loss of 400 employees, they could not financially recover. Their assets were bought out by a Canadian company, SHF industries.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
People really need to look deep within themselves and take the blinds off their eyes and look at the sick rituals that they perform.

Yes, they do.

The current western method is disgusting. I've seen a video of cattle being stunned by a bolt-like device on the head, then having a machine rip its throat out and then the machine spitting the animal out in a way similar to a tip truck, and the animal then trying to stand up on its feet.

A sick ritual indeed!

reply to post by MikeboydUS


You are quite right.

What made my stomach turn the most were the horses. I understand they can smell the slaughter houses from 5km away and start to go crazy in the trucks.

Originally posted by babloyi
Although..it seems prudent to mention that the halal method of slaughter does not allow for the animal to be in the presence of other animals when it is slaughtered, and that the knife shouldn't be visible to the animal until the very last second.

That's because they want to minimise the suffering of the animals.

In the western method, they try to generate as much fear as possible before they are killed.

The ignorance of the first two pages of this thread is amazing.

Halal and Kosher are not torture or inhumane. I'm fact, both religions expressly forbid torturing of animals.

Deny Ignorance


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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


Both religions express alot of things.....but don't practise what they preach!

I have only found one video of a Halal or Kosher slaughter house where the animal does'nt suffer, it's a Halal slaughter house in NZ where they stun the animal beforehand.

For the Rabbis to claim Kosher slaughter houses are humane is far from the truth and I've seen plenty of them.

Reply to post by bluemirage5

I see someone is not denying ignorance!

Studies done by Dr. H. H. Dukes at the Cornell University School of Veterinary Medicine indicate that the animal is unconscious within seconds of the incision.





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Originally posted by glen200376
This halal nonsense is ridiculous in the U.K.Places such as subway and most fast food joints now sell only halal,personly surely I should have a choice to eat or not halal/kosher meat?Mcdonalds is about the only place that doesn't sell it-that's why I eat there only.Usually the E.U. makes silly annoying rules but this one I'm all for,not only do we pander to these people,we now have to eat like them.Another example of muslims and jews forcing their customs on us.They know that in for example Britain that we bend over and take it up the ass from them because everyone is afraid to disagree with them incase they cry discrimination.Well I for one am sick of us Brits discriminating against ourselves.I an not afraid of being branded a racist,I am infact quite proud to be a racist if that's what you want to call me but bottom line,if they aren't happy here go back to your homeland.If all these muslims and jews had stayed in there own countries and tried to changes things there perhaps it would have evolved from the dark ages and might be a nicer and safer place now.

edit on 29/12/2010 by glen200376 because: (no reason given)

You aren't racist, just misguided and ignorant.

Nobody is forcing anything on to you. Business know they're losing money if they don't use halal or kosher meat. I hate religion, but this isn't something that's being forced by religious fundamentalists. These are voluntary acts by businesses who only have one concern; profit. Don't blame Muslims or Jews, blame the guys at McDonalds head quarters thinking up ways to increase annual turnover.

Muslims will not eat non-Halal. Christians will happily eat Halal. They always have and they always will. Only in recent years has this changed on the back of growing Anti-Islamic sentiment(of which I generally agree with). Lets be honest, you don't care how your meat is killed. If Christians ate Halal and Muslims ate non-Halal you'd be argueing in favour of Halal!

Your rant and anger is generally misdirected. There are many things you can blame on religious fundamentalists, especially Islamic nuts, but this isn't one of them. Genuinely, this is one of the few cases in which Muslims are NOT trying to force their beliefs and customs on others.

You have a choice just like Muslims have a choice. You choose another establishment. This is nothing new. Muslims have been opting for Dixy's and Chicken Cottage for years

It's white Christian business owners who are voluntarily opting to go Halal or Kosher. Most Muslims could care less whether McDonalds or Subways serve Halal. Muslims are more a Fish 'n' Chips people. Go down to your local Chippy and tell me Muslims don't embrace British culture. Mind you, Chippys these days sell curry sauce

Oh, and bolt slaughter is not kosher, just FYI.


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Originally posted by babloyi
ModernAcadamia, I think you are misinformed. Animal slaughter in the UK doesn't work purely on electrocution. The animal is zapped with a stun gun, and then bled out by having its throat cut (or being jabbed in the heart). That first video you posted was practising a bit of disinfo in that regard.

In fact, your use of the example of "this is why electrocution is used in executions" is also faulty- there were many many cases of the condemned surviving for several minutes after being electrocuted -probably one of the reasons why electrocution as a method of execution is actually being PHASED OUT. Not that lethal injection is any better- the funny thing about all these methods of execution (as well as slaughtering of animals) is that they're generally made for ease of the executor (or slaughterer), not the person being executed (or the animal being slaughtered). If they really cared about not causing pain to the prisoner to be executed, they'd guillotine.

Another point about those videos you posted- trying to prove that the animal is being "tortured" by showing all that shaking about by the animals is a bit misleading. Those are muscle reactions- the animal itself would have been rendered unconscious almost instantly because THERE IS NO BLOOD FLOWING INTO THE BRAIN. This versus a zap to the animal (which stops it from flapping about, it is true, although this only really benefits the onlookers.... the animal itself is still very much alive, and could possibly sense all the pain of the zap as well as the cut, if the zap wasn't done properly).

Although..it seems prudent to mention that the halal method of slaughter does not allow for the animal to be in the presence of other animals when it is slaughtered, and that the knife shouldn't be visible to the animal until the very last second. If the video you posted is actually showing "halal" slaughter being carried out, it should be noted that it isn't being done correctly.

So yeah, I'd repeat a previous posters question..what makes the non halal/kosher method MORE humane? If anything at all, some studies should be done. Studies done so far, show that the halal method is more humane than captive bolt stunning, at least.

edit on 29-12-2010 by babloyi because: (no reason given)

tor·ture
–noun
1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.
2. a method of inflicting such pain.
3. Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.
4. extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
5. a cause of severe pain or anguish.

Oh and by the way, you fight like a Dairy Farmer!