Why do people want to legalize harmful drugs??

Originally posted by DuneKnight
So let me get this right; you want people to do the bad things in order to gain experience & wisdom?

Doing drugs is not a "bad thing".

Abuse and overuse is the problem.

Drug taking in moderation is completely natural.

Caffeine is a perfect example of a drug people use because they find the mental effect beneficial but not medical.

Does drinking coffee everyday have negative health effects? Of course.

But some people think it is worth it...and that what it is all about, balancing the good with the bad.

Originally posted by Jezus
Caffeine is a perfect example of a drug people use because they find the mental effect beneficial but not medical.

Does drinking coffee everyday have negative health effects? Of course.

But some people think it is worth it...and that what it is all about, balancing the good with the bad.

Health effects of coffee

Note the long lists of both positive and negative effects of regular coffee consumption.

Perfect example of what our OP will hopefully learn one day: things aren't all black and white.

are you talking about Marijuana, '___', Mushrooms, Ayawaska, and '___'?

You got it backwards "friend." The harmful drugs ARE the legal ones.

reply to post by DuneKnight


Funny how many of these 'harmful' drugs were sold at pharmacies as medicines 100 years ago...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d2eaa7833baf.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/79eeed97f245.jpg[/atsimg]

You know Morphine is basically Heroin don't you?

Ever taken a Codeine pill? YOU MUST BE A DRUGGIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HEMP? Please explain why Hemp is illegal when it contains NO ACTIVE PSYCHOTROPIC substance?

Why is it that people like you feel the need to control the lives of others? Hmm? Does it give you your jollies? Do you get some form of twisted satisfaction from it?

Originally posted by DuneKnight
So let me get this right; you want people to do the bad things in order to gain experience & wisdom?

If it wasn't illegal would it still be a 'bad thing'? I think NOT.

reply to post by DuneKnight


In regards to that miley cirus video,she was celebrating her birthday and using a legal substance...you want to lock her up now as a druggie? let people live.

Are you seriously telling me that all the MILLIONS of people that have had amazingly good, positive, life-changing experiences -- both physically and mentally -- as a direct result of using illegal drugs (mainly hallucinogens), are all wrong and aren't actually "wise" or "smart" enough to be able to tell if something is good for them or not?

And you don't think that's just a LITTLE bit naive and silly?

Are you actually prepared to address the massive amounts of evidence that contradict your opinion on the matter?

Hah.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by fallow the light

 

Well, actually meditation is direct experience. I do both though and as such I feel pretty competent to state that they are both direct in their approach and resultant information. Unless you do meditate quite a bit, it would be unlikely that you would realize the abilities we have in our souls. We're so much more than this meat suit.

I believe you are quite correct about "this meat suit" but I find it disturbing that you, like so many others, speak of these abilities "we HAVE in OUR SOULS" (capitalized emphasis added). Meditation, or perhaps religious use of alternative substances or the combination of both more likely, have led me to conclude that we ARE soul. Disturbing is that it is misleading to ourselves and what we convey to others if we use possesive forms in speaking of these matters. Keeping that in perspective has given me an upper edge in utilizing the abilities you speak of and better control over MY meat suit.

If you have not arrived at a similar conclusion perhaps more meditation is in order. Then again, I may have it all wrong but it works for me. It is just a friendly suggestion and hope it is not entirely off-topic, I just did not want to emphasize the use of alternative substances, but yeah, they are part of my experience in this matter.

Perhaps this idea of certain substances being "dangerous" is based on ignorance based on government studies which were performed to meet the agenda of criminalization.

This being the most likely case, I advise all opposed to check out independent studies which contradict the government mantra. Such studies can be found here:

NORML

If you are for the decriminalization of said substances, check out my thread here:

The Teapot Party

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


I must admit that having read your reply now three times, I still cannot figure out what your point is.

My point is simply that meditation is more powerful than drug-induced experiences once you attain a certain level. I too started with psychedelics, etc., in my youth but now that I'm quite a bit older (and for other reasons as well) I do not have access to any sort of chemical enhancements. Still, I have absolutely mind-blowing, mind-altering, mind-expanding meditations that far surpass anything ever experienced (by me) "chemically". These things are great tools to show you that there is so very much more out there, but once you really start going places, your own soul is the best vehicle you could hope for. It's already yours, it's legal, it's organic, it's available anytime, and you can't get busted for using it.

Well, not yet anyway.

reply to post by DuneKnight


They have the right to decide for themselves. We should all have that right. If I want to do drugs, I should not be told by some Govt. that I can not. All of this US border violence would be virtually nonexistent if drugs were legalized..

If someone wants to ruin their life with crack or heroine... Survival of the fitest comes to mind.. With a hint of natural selection.

Drugs aren't that bad mmmmmmmmmkay

reply to post by Resurrectio


Well it pretty obvious by all the disinformation, that the people who are highly against marijuana use, have never tried it and completely think of it from the propagande they have been told, I have smoked weed on ocassion, when i feel like doing so, and I realised pretty quickly it was not even close to as bad as they taught on the news or in school, it's also hardly addictive at all, especially compared to nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine!!, and had more trouble with anti depressants then anything else

Dear OP:
Successful troll is successful. First off, if you trust your government so much, why are you on ATS?
Your arguments are weak, biased, and are NOT backed by factual data. You claim that drugs are made are made illegal due to their harm, when many GOVERNMENT reports show that marijuana, lsd, mushrooms, and the sort are not harmful, but beneficial in moderate use. There is lots of money involved in the legal status. The government not only sells the LEGAL drugs, but also the illegal ones. Open your eyes, OP, wake up. Or go back to watching "stargate", which also, in my opinion, tv does more brain damage than an acid binge.

OP, you are asleep. Wake up.

H

So one group of you are all so desperate for meaning of life and wanting to assert your existence that you decide to smoke some plants?? And the other group just want to squeeze out every pleasurable experience they can get out of life because of boredom. Here's an advise, get a big picture of yourselves and then head over to a shooting range and take aim. At least then you would get the whole self-destruction off your chest.

If you're equating psychedelics with suicide you really have no clue what you're talking about.

You really need to do some research, since you're obviously going to ignore anything anyone says here.

Obvious troll is obvious.

There world would NOT be the place it is today without drugs, Human culture has used drugs to dream, be creative and imagine for century’s. I think you have just made this thread to be a tool and get rises out of people, but ill bite.

We all take drugs for many reasons, none more right than the other. but what I cant get my head around is why someone else would care what I put in my body, If I want to dry a plant, and smoke it, then I’m going to, simple as that, no amount of government legislation can stop me or people like me.

Get used to drugs buddy they were here a long time before you and will be a long time after you die, and in the future people will look back at prohibition of certain drugs and laugh at the simple mindedness of it all.

High times

reply to post by djzombie


Psychedelics amplify your depression by making sure you never get cured off depression and then making you dependant on it for serenity or whatever.

Originally posted by DuneKnight
All the arguments I read were not convincing not the slightest. If anything we should make more substances illegal not the other way round. Government is not trying to control you, if it wanted to it wouldve legalized it and regulated it and abused its access. Basically, it would take it away from you if you do something it doesn't like. Right now, the government knows more than you the average citizen can ever know and they know the dangers. So why defy that?

People should have the freedom to choose whether or not to take the substance. If it is a matter of public awareness, then the Government can spend more money on drug education as well as general education rather than all the money spent on preventing drugs from entering and being distributed within the USA. If you really think about it, just about everyone knows drugs are bad, but its the curiosity more than anything else that drives people to take that first hit anyways, not ignorance. When you glorify a taboo subject such like they do in Drug Ed classes (if it weren't for my drug ed classes in 6th grade I probably never would have experimented with so many, not that I'm complaining ....) and as well as in entertainment, then its no wonder that people get curious. But that is a choice for a person to make. Government can place pressure, in other words try to influence the decision, but government should not outright outlaw and essentially control a person's decision making process, even if it is a choice between using dangerous drugs or not. Honestly though, even the Government trying to influence is a huge stretch of power, as character molding and value forming is the responsibility of the parent. When you force society to be good, then there is a digressive or repressive social mutation of society's evolution, rather than a straightforward natural progression, and that is basically what happens when a government tries to control the source and amount of choices available to a person.

smoking weed and other mild drugs do not cause the problems that most prescribed drugs from doctors cause--

taken from this web site---www.medications.com



Prescription Drug Side Effects Summary
Adverse Events - Medical Injury



Here is a summary list of adverse side effects, resulting from the use of prescription drugs.

To help determine which drugs have the worst side effects, I summarized all the side effect postings over at www.medications.com. Physicians always prefer to have patients accept the literature put out by the big pharmaceutical companies. I prefer to listen to all the anecdotal evidence from people who HAVE TAKEN the drugs.
Vaughn's Summaries

Medical Summaries

Prescription Drug Classes
Prescription Drug Lawsuits
Prescription Drug Painkillers
Prescription Drug Risks
Prescription Drug Sales
Prescription Drug Side Effects

Prescription Drug TV Ads
Prescription Drug Warnings
Prescription Heart Drugs
Rejected Prescription Drugs
Unapproved Prescription Drugs

30
580-900
30
260


From Medications.com, here is a summary of
the number of complaints (posts), for drugs with OVER 100 COMPLAINTS:
Over 1,000
Complaints .
500 - 1,000
Complaints 200 - 500
Complaints 140 - 200
Complaints 100 - 140
Complaints
4,799
3,398
2,426
2,358
2,148
1,777
1,445
1,367
1,130

Yasmin
Mirena
Singulair
Levaquin
Lisinopril
Nuvaring
Prednisone
Lipitor
Advair HFA

965
878
805
679
550
508
503
501

Loestrin 24 Fe
Kenalog
Toprol-XL
Topamax
Wellbutrin
Femcon Fe
Sulfamethoxazole
Lupron

487
438
411
351
334
332
271
223
221
216
212
206
205
205

Zocor
Yaz
Doxycycline H.
Levoxyl
Avelox
Lamictal
Zoloft
Gardasil
Simvastatin
Omeprozole
Geodon
Warfarin
Aviane
Effexor

188
185
184
175
166
163
155
148
145
144

Paxil
Biaxin
Ovcon
Synthroid
Ambian
Guiaifen
Fosamax
Seroquel
Bactrim
Celexa

138
137
137
130
125
120
112
111
110
100

Ultracet
Advair Discus
Guiafenex
Desogen
Zyrtec
Flomax
Zithromax Z.
Maxidex
Reglan
Diovan

60
100
50
110
50
110
50
110
50
110

.
If you are taking one of the drugs on the list above, you should be EXTRA CAUTIOUS. Go on the Internet, and read in detail about the side effects associated with your drug. I was recently prescribed Lisinopril, and I quickly became another victim of the famous "Lisinopril Cough". Even after quitting the stuff after 2 weeks, my tickling throat STILL has not gone away. This is truly nasty stuff. AND, it didn't do a damn thing to lower my Blood Pressure. ACE Inhibiter, indeed! How about, "Throat Attack Machine".

From Medications.com, here is a summary of
the number of complaints (posts), for drugs with 35 - 100 COMPLAINTS:
71 - 91
Complaints .
51 - 68
Complaints 47 - 51
Complaints 42 - 46
Complaints 35 - 42
Complaints
91
85
80
78
77
77
76
72
71
71

Welchol
Propafenone
Aciphex
Vytorin
Depakote
Januvia
Cipro
Adderall
Adderall XR
Quasense

68
66
66
59
56
53
52
52
52
51

Cephalexin Mon
Remicade
Risperdal
Lotrel
Cortizone Acet.
Trileptal
Budeprion
Neurontin
SMP-TMP DS
Atenolol
51
51
51
51
50
49
49
48
47
47

Hydrocodone
Lantus
Meprozine
Pravachol
Prozac
Albuterol
Effexor XR
Metronnidazole
Winstrol
Xanax
46
46
45
45
45
45
45
43
42
42

Chantix
Estrostep FE
Alesse
Amoxicillin
Keflex
Macrobid
Remeron
HCTZ-Lisinopril
Lithium Carbon.
Mobic
42
41
41
40
37
36
36
35
35
35

Nasonex
Jolessa
Norvasc
Metoprolol Tart.
Methadone HCl
Imitrex
Trazodone HCl
Allegra
Flagyl
Lyrica


60
100
50
110
50
110
50
110
50
110


YOU must be the one who watches over yourself. Because nobody else is going to. Many doctors just throw things at the wall, and see what sticks.

My approach is the old-fashioned "smoke-there-is-fire" reasoning. Some doctors disdain anecdotal evidence as not valid. I believe that it is the very best evidence we have, if the sample size is large enough, and the population is diverse.


.
Drug Side Effects Description Table
Prescription drug side effects can occur in every system of the body.
Below are listed common serious side effects, by the body system affected.


Side Effects
Note

ALLERGY
Side Effects
COMMON:
Serious allergic reactions
Swelling of the face, lips, tongue, and/or throat
Difficulty breathing
Difficulty swallowing



BLOOD
Side Effects
COMMON:
Anemia
Decreased levels of potassium
Decreased levels of sodium
Dizziness
Excessive bleeding (sometimes fatal)
Facial flushing
Fainting (syncope)
Fast heartbeat (tachycardia)
Heart attack
High blood pressure (hypertension)
Increased levels of potassium
Low blood pressure (hypotension)
Low blood cell counts
Palpitations
Perpetual erection (priapism)
Postural hypotension
Slow heartbeat (bradycardia)
Thrombosis (clotting)



BONE
Side Effects
COMMON:
Bone loss
Bone pain



BRAIN
Side Effects
COMMON:
Amnesia
Dizziness (vertigo)
Seizures
Speech disorder
Stroke
Transient ischemic atychosis
Worsening of epilepsy



GASTRO-INTESTINAL
Side Effects

COMMON:
Abdominal pain
Colitis
Constipation
Diarrhea
Dry mouth
Dyspepsia
Intestinal bleeding
Nausea
Rectal bleeding
Stomach bleeding
Stomach pain
Upset Stomach (indigestion)
Vomiting



INTERACTION
Side Effects
COMMON:
Drug and drug interactions
Food and drug interactions



LIVER/ KIDNEY
Side Effects

COMMON:
Acute kidney failure
Chronic kidney failure
Hepatitus
Jaundice
Liver damage



LUNGS (Pulmonary Side Effects)
COMMON:
Cold symptoms
Cough
Flu-like symptoms
Lower respiratory infection
Fluid in the lungs (pulmonary edema)
Pulmonary thrombosis
Shortness of breath (dyspnea)
Sore throat
Upper respiratory infection





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MENTAL
Side Effects
COMMON:
Aggression
Agitation
Anxiety
Confusion
Depression
Hallucinations
Hostile
Hyperactive
Impulsive
Irritable
Panicky
Personality disorder
Overly excited
Severely restless (akathisia)
Sleeplessness (insomnia)
Suicide
Weakness (asthenia)



MUSCULAR
Side Effects
COMMON:
Back pain
Leg cramps
Muscle pain
Shakiness (tremor)
Spasm
Tiredness
Swelling of legs and feet
Unexplained muscle pain
Weakness



OTHER DRUG
Side Effects
COMMON:
Diabetes mellitus
Hair loss
Frequent urination
Hyperglycemia
Ketoacidosis
Loss of appetite
Pancreatitis
Urinary tract infection
Weight gain
Weight loss



PAIN
Side Effects

COMMON:
Abdominal pain
Bone pain
Breast pain
Chest pain (angina)
Headache
Heartburn
Joint pain
Leg cramps
Painful menstruation
Vaginitis



SENSES
Side Effects
COMMON:
Blindness
Blurred vision
Colored vision
Ringing in the ears (tinnitus)
Tingling sensation (paresthesia)



SKIN
Side Effects

COMMON:
Allergic reaction
Itching
Skin rash
Severe skin reactions
Sweating

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Some popular drugs which can cause dangerous side effects are:
Actonel.
Avodart.
Boniva.
Celebrex.
Cialis.
Coreg.
Crestor.
Detrol.
Ditropan.
Enbrel.
Fosamax.
Humira.
Levitra.
Lunesta.
Nexium.
Paxil.
Plavix.
Premarin.
Prilosec.
Procrit.
Strattera.
Valtrex.
Vesicare.
Viagra.
Vioxx.
Vytorin.
Wellbutrin.
Zelnorm.
Zocor.
Zyprexa.




Ahh, all those wonderful dreamlike ads - "Ask your doctor about ..."
Beautiful outdoor scenes, balmy breezes, birds singing, cloudless skies, soft music, smiling faces, rapturous delight -
COULD MEAN DEATH.


Biased studies - Misleading Statistics - Marginal Efficacy - Unacceptable Risk
Your health is secondary - the pharmaceutical companies WANT YOUR MONEY.
YOU MUST become aware of this, or your health can be in great danger.
No longer can you rely upon your doctor - he is a pharmaceutical company puppet,
who parrots whatever is written in the PDR (Physician's Desk Reference).

You must become your own #1 health care informant - do your own research.
The truth must be mined, from the flood of sometimes misleading published information.
Praise God for the internet.
Listen to who is doing the talking - judge accordingly.
Expect spin, skew, deception . . . Profit motive and self-interest prevail.

No matter how "rare" a side effect is alleged to be,
it's NOT rare when it happens to you.





What Pharmaceutical Drugs REALLY Are --->


Pharmaceutical companies need to make money. At any cost. Period.

So they create concoctions of petrochemicals, and test them on animals to see what they do.
All new compounds do something.
Most new compounds have MANY, MANY effects.
Most of these effects are negative, some deadly poisonous.

Perhaps one new compound in 100 has a positive effect on some malady.
But the multitude of negative effects are ALWAYS THERE
(just read the data - for ANY drug above).
So, they hoodwink the FDA, and make and sell the drug for the condition,

AND DOWNPLAY ALL THE ADVERSE SIDE EFFECTS.
by falsifying studies
by "burying" studies that show negative results
by "doctoring" statistics
by hiding the side effects
by hand-picking study subjects
by defining 5% occurrence as "rare"
by removing study subjects early, who do very poorly
by selling drugs with marginal efficacy

Many of these side effects are FAR WORSE than the condition being treated.
SOME FAR, FAR WORSE!!!
The side effects far outweigh the benefits.
Don't believe it?
Did you read the adverse side effects, out of THEIR mouths?

Remember this -
The primary concern when administering a drug is NOT how effective it might be,
but how well it can be TOLERATED.


Do I have an axe to grind?
Absolutely.
Two years ago, I was given propranolol, which is pure poison.
I have been in PERMANENT atrial fibrillation since that day in March 2003, after almost dying.
Propranolol blew out my heart's pacemaker (sinus rhythm).
The doctor had NO IDEA what he was giving me.
"Let's try this, he said", with NO REGARD for the possible consequences.
When I couldn't walk, stand, sit, lie down, breathe, or sleep, he said, "Double the dose". Idiot.

Your doctor may also be clueless. Especially if we are talking about heart medications.
General Practitioners have NO BUSINESS prescribing cardiac drugs.
These drugs are a total crapshoot.
YOUR particular side effects are unpredictable until you swallow the drug.
Then, it might be too late.




The Aubuchon Pharmaceutical Drug Classification System (PDCS)



Benefit/ Risk Ratios which describe most pharmaceutical medications -
(Effect vs. Side-Effects)




Type 1 Drugs - These drugs have excellent benefits, and very low risk. They sell like candy. Some go OTC.
Type 2 Drugs - These drugs have very good benefits, and marginal risk.
Type 3 Drugs - These drugs have good benefits, and marginal risk.
Type 4 Drugs - These drugs have marginal benefit, and marginal risk.
Type 5 Drugs - These drugs have little benefits, and little risk. These drugs are the same as placebos.
Type 6 Drugs - These drugs have marginal benefits, but substantial risk.
Type 7 Drugs - These drugs have marginal benefits, but have high risk. ("Last resort" type of drugs.)
Type 8 Drugs - These drugs have little benefit, and very high risk. Many of these drugs are recalled.

reply to post by DuneKnight


The thing about psychedelics is that their effects vary according to each individual's personality, reactivity, and the mood prior to and during the experience. So in some people, it can make them depressed or intensify it if they already are. In others it can quite literally "cure" the depression, and even go so far as change a persons entire personality altogether, it just depends on the pattern of their thoughts and behavior, as well as the behavior and the overall tone of the environment and people that are sharing the experience with the tripper. With my own experiences, I realized the most important factor that determines your experience with a psychedelic and the after effects both short-term and long-term depend heavily upon the environment and your sense (or in the best scenario, lack of sense) of security while you are tripping. In other words, the less restrictions and hesitations you have mentally and physically, the better the trip is, and that goes a long way in determining the long-term effects of the drug on a person, because usually the depression that arises out of heavy uses of psychedelics is more relative to symptoms of psychoses where the user experienced something possibly traumatic during their trip that causes a slow spiral downwards towards disassociation with their reality. Its not necessarily that they go crazy, it is just that their entire perception of life and their patterns of thought can be completely reversed or even halted. In the best cases, the thought patterns are promoted and even enlightened. That is usually associated with the "good" trip though, and once again the possibility of having a good trip depends very much on the individual's personality.