Why do people want to legalize harmful drugs??

reply to post by DuneKnight


that is because they do! who are you to tell them they cant? you are just some guy. your opinion means nothing to an other humans life.

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened

Originally posted by DuneKnight
All the arguments I read were not convincing not the slightest. If anything we should make more substances illegal not the other way round. Government is not trying to control you, if it wanted to it wouldve legalized it and regulated it and abused its access. Basically, it would take it away from you if you do something it doesn't like. Right now, the government knows more than you the average citizen can ever know and they know the dangers. So why defy that?

You know what we become when everything that might possibly kill us is banned and therefore there is no possibility of exploring the world for ourselves and learning from our mistakes? Farm animals. We cease to be human beings at that point.

People like you think we should worry about safety until there is nothing left in life but its preservation.

But guess what? I don't care how few drugs you take, you're still gonna die.

But even from a saftey perspective, drug bans end up having so many harmful side-effects that they end up achieving the complete opposite of their intended effect of safety (actually almost all government programs suffer from this problem). The violence on the Mexican border is a direct result of the U.S. ban on marijuana. For all the talk about spending a ton more money to get tougher on the drug cartels, there is one move that would cost zero dollars and destroy the cartels almost overnight: legalizing marijuana.

This would either destroy the cartels or force them to convert into legitimate non-violent businesses so they can compete with the ones that others would inevitably start. After all, who wants to buy from a thug when you can buy from a pharmacy, or even grocery store or farmers' market?

When you have no Prohibition, you have no Al Capone.

edit on 10-12-2010 by NewlyAwakened because: (no reason given)

easy to say when you dont have children to take care of. I dont have kids but people out there do worry about such things affecting their kids. Think about the society and how it can be affected by this. As for cartels and Al Capone, wont they just end up growing the next illegal thing? Im pretty sure not even people here would want to legalize ALL drugs.

again check this: www.guardian.co.uk...

Originally posted by amc621

Originally posted by DuneKnight

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by DuneKnight

McDonalds = Cannabis? I don't think so. As I said I think there needs to be more banning of things like salt too but thats not major problem. I find it disturbing how todays youth actually believe they have a right to smoke or drink whatever dangerous substances available to them.

Heart disease, obesity, cholesterol...

pick your poison, fast food will give it to you.

What harm exactly does cannabis do might I ask?

edit on 12/10/2010 by eNumbra because: (no reason given)

the worst poison. It affects your mind, your psychology.

Here's a novel idea for you, how about people be responsible for their own actions???? Why does the government need to tell us what to do and what not to do. I'm all for legalizing MJ. I think it would stimulate the economy. Farming, distribution, taxes. More jobs.

I find it disturbing that PARENTS don't teach their kids right from wrong! Do you have children?????

Yes parents have no control over their children. Thats part of life. Now who's responsible from protecting these children when all else fails? You already know the answer.

Originally posted by DuneKnight
Right now, the government knows more than you the average citizen can ever know and they know the dangers. So why defy that?

Written like someone who has never worked for the government or is some sort of 'agent.'

Most laws we have made in the past 60 years+ have some sort of agenda behind them, usually money. The reason why drugs are illegal, especially cannabis is not because the government is looking out for us but because there is a bottom line. If cannabis was legal the pharmaceutical companies, law enforcement, lawyers, paper mills, alcohol, tobacco, ect. would all loose money/profits. They know this and they continue to lobby against ending prohibition. The original laws against cannabis were made by sponsored by DuPont because the plant threatened their industry and the masses were given the racist propaganda that helped make it a popular decision.

The government does not know best and it is a shame that we as citizens of a so called 'free country' can not grow a plant that is a big part of humanity's history.

reply to post by DuneKnight


It's not for the moral majority to do, that's for certain. We're all entitled to live our lives as we see fit. I can pretty well assure everyone that if we were allowed to do just that, there would be greater responsibility for one's family and friends, sense of civic duty, sense of place and value for one's own life and livelihood. We've all had that at some point everywhere in the world. But eventually, we all got really lazy and stupid. We passed that responsibility to the besserwissers of society: the doctors, the social workers, the politicians, the banks, the schools, the police, the government, etc. Now we have lost all control and the result is the utter frustration, hopelessness, apathy, anger, rage, escapism you see around you today. We hold nothing in esteem. Our values are prescribed randomly by the media, by our "leaders", by those self-same besserwissers who we handed our sovereignty to in the first place.

But fortunately, we are able to choose another outcome with every passing moment. Choose to take back your lives. You hand it over sheepishly. Take it back bravely. There's a spine in there somewhere. Find it.

reply to post by DuneKnight


you do realize that making marijuana legal is only going to change where some people buy it from. it will not cause the fall of a civilization or the economy to fall or any misc bull $#!t that the gov comes up with. if smoking marijuana caused these things, they would have happened a long time ago. every restaurant you ever walk into, at least 1 person in that restaurant smokes pot.

this thread is just silly any ways.

no one has any right to decide what i can and can not put into my body!

how subjective can one get , the abyss of circular reasoning is so vast its easy to fall into it , .

while its easy to blame a thing, the real "blame" lies in the user and the surroundings he/she be in ,

one can even put it like this ,

yes, people do drugs, but they just do the wrong ones for the wrong reasons because thats how they ve been told to do "drugs",.

heck , we know more about the surface of the moon then the vast depths of our seas, in a sence it tells a sad story about mankind and how little we know about our inner space and how much we´ve detached our selfs from nature , in a sence we find it easier to explore something "not self" then something we have at our feet,
even the u.s.a is a good example , you try to fix things abroad which you your self suffer in return for not fixing at home ,

im sorry english is not my native language , but i guess what im trying to paint is a picture of detachment,
a psycological blindness of oneself that clouds real objective reality ,

im not denying that there isnt a subjective problem with aspects of "drug" usage

but i do how ever find the OP a bit to minimalistic in the sence that you put blame
on a thing the same way you blame the bicycle for you falling ,

one could just as easy turn this thread in to an association game and just make psycosomatic analyses on
why the subject at hand from self empirical experiences wants to blame a object/subject then him/her self,

guess im just loss for words,

reply to post by DuneKnight


yes i do know the answer. "the children will have to make their own bad decisions"! i have 2 little girls and i would much rather them think for them self's and make bad decisions then have their freedom to do so taken from them. like i said this thread is just silly. you should just give up. your not going to brain wash people into thinking that the government should own their bodies.

reply to post by fallow the light


He was in chat trying to do the same. It's a shame when people are so hardwired in their thought processes that nothing appeals to them to encourage a reassessment of their views. An even sadder note was that he has virtually no experience with these substances he is so deadly set against. Perhaps a bit of experience with life might give him a clearer view of what freedom really is. He seems to have a great fear of freedom in a very general sense, let alone getting into specifics.

My friend,

I see by your avatar you consider yourself a "protector". I do not need your nor the governments protection. What you and the government consider "protection" is in all actuality control. Marijuana has been used by Man since before recorded history. The same is true with coca leaves, peyote, psilocybin (magic mushrooms), and other medicinal and hallucinogenic herbs, plants, and fungi. It is created by God for man to use, not for man to control and/or erradicate. If you want to control man made substances such as the harsh pharmaceutical, methamphetamines, '___', etc. by all means, I give unto ceasar that which belongs to ceasar. What is from God, I take back from those who wish to steal it from Man.

As to the "Qat" problem. Have you witnessed the "problem" or are you content to feed on second hand information? Trust no man for they are liars. They will always tell you what you wish to hear according to their own desires. It is the nature of the beast.

I have seen Qat use first hand in Djibouti Africa. Qat gives a high similar to coca leaves. It suppresses the appetite and numbs the pains of starvation. If you want to end the Qat "problem", stand up to your governments and tell them to stop taking from your Brothers and Sisters and share the technologies which can help them rise above their environment. Feed them, nourish them, teach them, and they will no longer need Qat to suppress their misery. Then, there will be no problem.

If you find government control so appealing, then keep it for yourself. As for me and others of like mind, get out of the way of our freedom!

With Love,

Your Brother

This is my body. moy domain and my life. What gives the government any rights to tell me what or i can or cannot put in my body.
I hope i am not falling outside terms and conditions but i feel people will take what they want to anyway so by making things illegal all you are douing is increasing crime.
Anyway do you trust the government not to lie to you. If so you are in a minority...

kx

Originally posted by DuneKnight
easy to say when you dont have children to take care of. I dont have kids but people out there do worry about such things affecting their kids. Think about the society and how it can be affected by this.

Drugs have been banned for well over half a century. They're still a problem. Perhaps it's time to rethink our "solutions".

We're both in the same boat with regards to parenting, as I have no children either. But I resent the excessive sheltering by my family during my childhood; it has caused a lot of problems since I've been on my own that I am still trying to work through. If you want to grow a boy into a man, he has to be allowed to make his own mistakes. Otherwise, when you grow up you're just an adult-sized child, afraid of the world and everything in it because you have no experience with it and no idea how to handle it.

You should listen to "How I Got To Be This Way" by Justin Moore. Might give you some new perspective.

Originally posted by DuneKnight
As for cartels and Al Capone, wont they just end up growing the next illegal thing?

If there's demand for it, and they are up to the task of switching operations, sure. Where demand exists, it will be filled. If the thing in question happens to be illegal, the way demand gets filled will involve turf wars and other violence.

Originally posted by DuneKnight
Im pretty sure not even people here would want to legalize ALL drugs.

You're looking at one.

I've had anxiety problems most of my life. At least 15 years, and I'm 27. By the time I was 14 I could not remember what it was like to feel normal. I lived in a constant state of extreme dizziness, paranoia, hunger paired with the inability to eat... Suicide was a constant thought.

I dropped out of school at 15 because I could not take any more. I spent months in my bedroom, afraid to even go downstairs in my own home. I still don't know why. The only time I left was to go to random doctors, all of which insisted I had vertigo. Months upon months and hundreds of meclizine tablets later, I tried smoking marijuana. I felt great. I could function again. I got a job, finished school and everything was working out to my advantage.

From 15-19 you'd have had a hard time finding me not high. At 19 I decided to give it up. Here's a big part that I can't overstate: I HAD NO WITHDRAWAL symptoms. Ever. After 6 months, the anxiety came back. I found a doctor that realized it was anxiety. She put me on Paxil, Xanax and Klonopin.

Not going into a hell of a of of detail here, but when I realized Paxil had so many side effects, I weaned off of it. SEVERE WITHDRAWAL. WEANING. The kind of suffering you would not wish on anyone. Zoloft took it's place, and while it has side effects it's ok for me.

HOWEVER, I have to take 3mg of Klonopin a day. And that's a cutback from where I was. It's also SOLELY to keep the withdrawal away. It has not worked for my anxiety in about 2 years. My doctor always wants to up my dose, saying it will help. It's taken me a year to cut out the Xanax completely and down the Klon dose. I'm not going back now, I will not have suffered for nothing.

So tell me which is worse here? A non narcotic SSRI and a couple of Schedule 4 drugs:

Schedule IV drugs have a low potential for abuse, have a currently accepted medical use, has a low chance for addiction or limited addictive properties. Examples of Schedule IV drugs include Valium, Xanax, Phenobarbital, and Rohypnol (commonly known as the "date rape" drug).

Or a naturally occurring plant with none of the suffering caused by cessation, which by the way is a Schedule 1:

Schedule I Drugs Schedule I drugs have a high tendency for abuse and have no accepted medical use.

Well, three types of views on this one to me.

One is the people that want to use the drugs and of course would rather not get in trouble for it. Very large group unfortunately.

The next is folks that actually believe having the first group wasted on mind altering substances is better for them and/or society than the effort to enforce drug laws.

The final is people that don't care about the users or the society but envision the benefits of regulating and taxing the addicts to create a new stream of wealth for themselves or the states or the feds.

I don't buy into any of it personally. I agree that our current efforts are pretty wasteful and ineffective, but I do not believe that turning our heads and allowing a drug free for all is the answer.

I don't have a good suggestion at the moment and I'm not sure anyone does, but that doesn't justify the argument for legalization.

Oh jebus, this is a bit ridunculous here...

Alright, why legalize drugs? How about ... why not?

What is better ... people being curious and choosing to self medicate by means of getting their goods from gangsta's & mafia, or from a convenient store clerk?

Or how about getting some stuff that's cut with only god knows what, or some controlled, quantity & quality specific dose?

The answer should be obvious.

Listen kid, I got news for you. Drugs have been with humanity since the beginning of time. People do them for a multitude of reasons. The ones who are most psychopathic certainly abuse more for the simple reason that it's a sin, and they feel this gives them self-identity.

It's been proven that decriminalization/legalization LOWERS the rate of usage for the substance at hand.

So basically, we're continued to be lied to and conditioned to think that legalizing drugs is a bad thing, when in reality the opposite is true. Having drugs made illegal is so much worse. It's not about benefiting society, it's about controlling perceived undesirables, and funneling money from desperate people to corrupt government agencies.

reply to post by DuneKnight


Not sure if this is covered already..

The terms used lke Dangerous Drugs, etc, are a misnomer in many cases as we are abusing legal drugs that are far more harmful than some of the illegal ones.

Alcohol, the most dangerous drug of all time recording far more related deaths and violence than any other drug available legally.

Cigarettes, must be the 2nd most harmful legal drug. Considering the manufacturing process adds a highly toxic soup of chemicals to aid addictiveness.. and, cigarette manufacturers being the largest purchasers of Fruit Pulp on the planet... we should understand that cigarettes are deadly dangerous. Pure tobacco has far less health related problems than the over-processed stuff you buy in a shop.

Just these two alone account for the greatest number of deaths, the largest destructiveness to Family and society in general. They really are Harmful, Dangerous Drugs.

Now to one ellicit drug that grows almost anywhere and is comsumed by what I estimate over the years to be about 30 to 40% of any western population.. people from all walks of life..such as Lawyers, Judges, Police, Military, Doctors, Nurses, Government Departments and the lowly Plebs.

And yet there is not one single Death recorded from the use of this drug... so how can it be Harmful or Dangerous? Agreed it, like all other drugs, has a bad reputation due to the Abuse of it which can cause concerning issues in those who live it's Lifestyle daily.

And what of Prescription Medication? There must be masses of information that shows how bad much of it is for the individual using such things over protracted timeframes. I've seen walking pill bottles that are more disturbed than any causal smoker I've ever known, less able to function properly on a day to day basis without their little Pills, etc.

We need a total re-evaluation of our opinions concerning what we put into our bodies, and that needs to be supported by our Chosen Elected instead of having them tell us what is best for us.

Someone has been drinking the Koolaide lol


I have kids, and I can tell you drugs are easily available to my 14 year old. It is as easy as getting a burger from McDonald's. She does not live with me, and I will say she is very honest with me about the things she does and why she does them. She has admitted to me that she smokes weed. We have argued time and time again over this, but not because of any health risk. I do not feel weed poses a risk to health. I have smoked it, I know people who smoke it and I know people who have been smoking it for 20+ years with no effects to their health at all. We argue because of the legal risk if she were to get caught in possession of it.

I do not have a problem with legalizing marijuana. I actually think if it was legalized, we as a country would be better off for it, and the evidence suggest that this is true. There are countries that have done this and the results speak for themselves. You can argue it all you want, but you can not argue away the results.

If you are so concerned about health risk, why are you not speaking out about alcohol? Studies show that alcohol is more destructive than crack coc aine. When alcohol is drunk to excess, it damages nearly all organ systems, is connected to higher death rates and is involved in a greater percentage of crime that any other drug known to man. You can all sit back and recall stories of drunk drivers hitting a school bus full of kids, or a drunk driver wiping out a mini van and killing an entire family who was doing nothing but going to church. We have all heard those stories, they are everywhere. How many stories have you heard about someone driving after smoking marijuana and doing the same things? I have never found one. Not one. That alone speaks volumes does it not?

The evidence also suggest that legal prescription drugs are more harmful than marijuana. Users of medical marijuana report amazing, positive results. Much better than they have gotten from taking the legal prescription drugs. The problem however is, if you run a pharmaceutical company, there is no money in positive results. The money is in keeping people sick, keeping people hurting, keep them coming back for more drugs. Then you have those wonderful side effects.. which you can then go back to the doctor to get another prescription to help with those. The reasons why marijuana is not legal has nothing to do with health and has everything to do with money.

The studies are out there, you just have to put out the effort to actually find them. If the people ever did find them and broke through the years of programming that we have had telling us how bad it is, they would demand change. I would suggest the OP seek out those studies, look into for yourself and make an educated decision based on the results, not what you are told.

reply to post by DuneKnight


Because having them illegal hasn't worked very well now has it.

In the UK, former members of the governments drug advisory group published a paper in the Lancet journal (PDF DOWNLOAD HERE) listing the 'core' drugs in order of their damage to the individual and society.

Alcohol was top of the list, while controlled substances such as '___', MDMA, Cocaine, Mephedrone, amphetamines and mushrooms were way down at the bottom of the list. The image below is taken from their paper.



In my view, as long as I'm not harming anyone else then surely I can do what I want to my body? In my experience views like those expressed by the OP are based on a lack of education about substances and how they can be used (and abused).

Why deny yourself a potentially beneficial experience? In my mind, crack coc aine, heroin, meth-amphetamines etc are bad news and I wouldn't touch them with a very very long pole, but deciding whether or not to experiment with them or other substances should be down to the individual, not the government.

reply to post by MrWendal


Just my 2p, but there's evidence to suggest that smoking cannabis while the brain is developing can cause depression, anxiety and long term damage. Google is your friend, but my advice to kids that smoke weed (or that want to smoke it) is wait till you're older.