Child Support -- Vendetta Against Males

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by logicalthinking

 

Many people will bash your opening thread but I can vouch for your information as I am the paternal grandmother.

Guys, you better start thinking with the head on your shoulders instead of the one between your legs when it comes to picking out a "woman".

Great post!

stunning avatar btw

reply to post by Hefficide


Yes men should pay their fair share, I totally agree. But from my experiences, my daugter in law is being vicious and even though my son lost his job (many people now are being outsourced) she is trying to have him thrown into jail.

When she first said she was going to divorce my son, I had told her if worse came to worse, my husband and I would be more than willing to help her out as what transpired between my son and her was none of my business, but my grand daughter and her well being are my business.

I even offered the twitch up to $1,500.00 per month if she would allow us to continue seeing our grand daughter.

She prefers to stalk my son, now contacts his finance and makes my grand daughter tremble and cry (at 9-1/2 years old) everytime she has to go back to mom.

"Mom" has had about five/six boyfriends, my son two in the last seven years they have been divorced and the first one he had, my ex daughter in law frightened her off by threatening her.

My son is the one who took care of my grand daugther when she was an infant because "mom" would work and than go to bars to kariokee every night.

No, we are not talking about men who shirk their responsibility.

We are talking about manipulative women that know how to use the system to reek vengence upon their previous mate and how blindly the courts and judges allow this insanity to go on.

My grand daughter has stated she would prefer to live with my son and his fiance as they are more stable and she feels closer to her father - who by the way is stricter with her vs her mother who doesn't want to really deal with her. My grand daughter says that mom either dates a lot, goes out with friends or is on the computer all the time. She has no one to talk to.

Men are being taken advantage of.

Father's Rights, yes we have spent upwards of $15,000 so our son could have "joint custody" which means 48 hours every two weeks, if the mother does what the court says.

If she wants to flaunt the court ruling, the courts at least here in Illinois do not penalize her.

But, let a man flaunt any court ruling and he would find himself in jail so fast it wouldn't be funny.

The court has ruled that my son could give his daughter a cell phone with two numbers programmed in........ours and his so she could call us up and say good night.

Mom grabbed the phone and stomped on it.

Court doesn't care.

The court ruled that my son could at least know where his daughter lives, but her mother has not upheld that ruling, she flaunts it.

My son has gone through hell and back with this twitch.

Some women are way more brutish than any man could be..............I know I have lived through the daugher in law from hell.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by leo123

 

Simply not biologically true. Down's doesn't come from the male contribution. Lots of men have had children later in life. Many women have had children into their 50s.

I realize that Downs does not come from the male contribution, my comments were aimed at women in their mid-40's trying to get pregnant.

Reality remains, after their early 30's a womans ability to have a health child - if at all - starts to decline quickly, and after 40 it falls off the map.

It's not a vendetta against males.

Child support is just that .. child support. You make a kid .. you support him or her. It's just that simple. If the child lives with the mother, then the mother is taking care of many things and it is not wrong to support those things. She needs a car to take the kid to the doctor, get groceries, keep the child with a roof over his/her head and with the heat and water on ... get to work to be able to support the child more, etc etc.

Now I"m talking about the usual child support .. not the hundreds of thousands that celebrities pay out for child support. That's in a league all it's own.

Maybe vendetta is the wrong word, but anyone claiming there is no bias against Men in the family courts simply isn't very familar with the system and how it works.

Your girlfriend kicked you in the face? Sure, call the cops, you'll likely be the one that goes to jail.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Child support is just that .. child support. You make a kid .. you support him or her. It's just that simple.

Men DON'T make kids anymore, get out of the dark ages!

Men make lumps of tissue that a Woman can throw in the trash for absolutely any reason.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by leo123

 

Hi Leo,

It is a similar system here, although it looks at the income or income potential for both parties. I do agree with you that it should not be income based. If I ever get into politics, I will address that. It should be a fairly standard rate. Why should one child get more than another? There are even cases where 2 or 3 children in the same household with different fathers, and one kid might get a huge amount while another kid gets almost nothing, so in effect the father of one child ends up paying for all 3.

I guess when I said "fair" I meant it is fair between male and female, mother and father. There is no vendetta, but it certainly is not fair from case to case.

There are certainly some crazy child support awards that have been handed out by the courts over recent years.

I simply view awards of 5/10/$15,000.00 per month as a further transfer of assets over and above the original split.

It's quite offensive, actually.

reply to post by leo123


I have a friend that ran a small business. He was not even close to making the NBA minimum salary. The court told him to pay $20,000 a month. The mother was buying Coach bags and paid cash for a new Mercedees E class. She left the kid with her mother, her sister, and friends every night to go work as a stripper.

Yet he was denied parental rights because he worked in the music business and the child was the result of an affair with a younger woman. The judge declared that he "lacked any sense" of moral character and denied him visitation.

Now he was a guy with no criminal record and a long history of running his own companies. She was a stripper and had committed at least two federal felonys before they got together. Yet she was a more fit parent according to the courts. After he had to close his business because of rough economic times the court ordered him to pay $100,000 dollars in back support. The only other option was to sign off on all parental right.

He filled out the paper work to sign over parental rights. (The court had denied him visitation rights for so long the child did not even know his name. She thought the woman's new husband was her father.) He could not financially support the burden of paying $100,000 in back support. Well it took the mother three months to get her portions of the paper work filled out and signed. Despite his part being dated , and notarized, on the day of the court order, he was arrested and told he owed $160,000 in back support.

The mother had decided not to file the paper work because she heard he had opened a new business. She didn't want to live by the agreement because she thought he would be able to start paying again. When he presented everything to the judge the judge said, "well the mother obviously thinks that she needs that money to continue supporting the child." That was that. He had to come up with $160,000 by five o'clock or spend 90 days in jail.

He ended up spending 15 days in jail while his ex-wife worked to get a line of credit for $160,000 to help him get out of jail. Now he is paying $3,000 a month on the loan, plus paying more back child support. He can not afford $20,000 a month so he filed for a reduction. It took two months to get the reduction. That means he was nearly $40,000 behind again when they lowered it to $5,000 a month. He is paying almost $10,000 a month in to the child support system. He is currently averaging $11,000 a month in income after taxes and business expenses.

He lives on $250 a week. The mother of the child gets $10,000 a month and decided to quit working. He still has no parental rights. Since he now has no steady home, because of the child support situation, he has again been denied visitation rights. He actually sleeps on a cot in his place of business and showers at a near by church.

The crazy award amounts end up causing more damage than good in many cases.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


I starred your post. And, as with another poster, I do feel immense compassion and empathy with the situation that you've gone through.

Having said that, and removing the custody problems - which I agree with and have lived through - the actual child support is not the divining issue here. Animosity between the adults is. The courts, in my opinion, to tend to be one sided. In fact my experience, in the 1990's was that the court was overly "pro-female". My mother, on the other hand, who was divorced in the 1970's experienced an entirely different "pro-male" situation - where my father got away with not paying for years and nobody would help her.

When it's all said and done the child support is just that, child support. Not a chip in a battle. Not a rope in a tug of war, not a weapon to be used in custody disputes.

I honestly feel bad that you've come across a woman who is using the system to game your family. I truly am. And I say that as a man who has been gamed by that same system in similar ways. But these are separate issues from the issue of child support.

The children, in these situations, are always the victims. They suffer. They are used as pawns. Their best interest always gets lost in the shuffle. Whatever other issues exist, the best interest of the children is always paramount... And the financial aspects of that cannot and must not be ignored.

I cannot see any man, when his emotional pain is removed, saying "Yeah, I don't care if my kid is starving... that "twitch" of a woman isn't gaming me...."

People tend to lose sight of the forest here, for the trees...

~Heff

reply to post by MikeNice81


That is a terrible story and I feel for your friend, but the story has a lot of holes.

I dont' doubt that it is possible, but the judge would have had to be insane, or your friend is leaving something out. Judges never, never rule in favor of felons! Judges also do not look at the "type" of someone's employment, so long as it is employment. Strippers, music moguls, and even lawyers are considered gainful employment. Therefore the judge would not have ranked one above the other.

Your friend needs to quit paying for a month or two, put the $20,000 toward a high-powered attorney, get at least 50% custody, and get the back support wiped out! It can be done, it is done often.

If the judge is indeed insane, then your friend can move to another state, get an attorney, and fight it from that state. Also, if the judge is indeed insane, and the ex is indeed taking advantage, then your friend needs to talk to the press! There is no pressure like pressure from the newspaper and TV! It sounds like everyone has a lot to lose, except your friend. Air everyone's dirty laundry and see if they get more negotiable!

Originally posted by Ausar
child support is against god; as god has decreed that a woman carries the burden of child birth and labor.

Yeah, well what does God say for after the baby is born???

Something tells me that you wont find ANY god that says only the mom should take care of and raise the child...

Look, if you have a kid, people need to do so with the understand that you are responsible for that kid until their 18th birthday....

Yeah, you have to pay child support... If you don't like that, then you should not have had kids...

If she is cheating the system while you continue to pay out money to her might i suggest gathering some evidence against her to take with you to court. perhaps save some money and hire a Private Investigator!?! Clolect proof that this man lives with her and his income supports her as well. Fraudulently cheating the system like that IS infact a crime. They go to jail you take the child and stop having to pay out to a woman that don't deserve it.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


I didn't see that response earlier.

God also says not to "spill" your "seed," but I think that was some bad advice. God is above the law, and he doesn't have to pay child support. If he did have to pay, I think he would be much more careful with his seed!

I don't think anyone that believes that strictly in the Bible will have to worry about this issue, because they are probably living in Utah somewhere with their 13 kids and an intact family. No offense, because that situation is far superior to living somewhere else and paying a big child support payment to some girl you barely know for some kid you have never met.

I would think that anyone who deeply cares what God's opinion on the matter is, would probably avoid the non-marital sex, or take the consequences of their actions without the whining.

You pay child support to....SUPPORT YOUR CHILD.
I have to pay it on my son, I know it all doesnt go to him, he still comes to my house in hand me downs, and hes an only child in the house. I aint happy with that, and until the laws change stating the mother has to show what she used it for, I'll deal with it.
I have a responsibility to him, as his mother does. I pay it because thats what I am SUPPOSED to do.
Responsibility doesnt end there tho, you, as a father, should continue to help out outside the support by paying for things he needs, ie clothing, haircuts, activities etc.
you helped bring a child in the world, take responsibility as a father. Dont be a deadbeat!!

reply to post by FlyersFan


The actual child support is not but - my son lost his job, he gets very little from the state.

Now, I had offered my ex daughter in law $1,500.00 per month to not make this into a battle, but she wants a fight, she want to really rip into my son and his fiance.

Sorry, maybe for you and with your experiences, it's not a vendetta, but for my son and for most men yes the women is victious and very vendictive.

Wish you could come over and visit with us just one afternoon or go to court and see my daughter in law's lawyer in action.

fyi: She used the same lawyer her father used against her mother and her mother left the state abandoning her children with my daughter in law's father because the lawyer was so obnoxious.

Each of us comes to this discussion with our own experiences, mine in this regard have been very catastrophe for our entire family. My middle son won't even date or go near a woman after watching his older brother get reamed royaly.

Yes, women because they have had to survive in a man's world for so long have learned the fine art of vendictiveness.

Child support is one thing, flaunting the law and not allowing the father to see his children and playing headgames (bad mouthing the father) is another.

My husband who is a manager and my two brother in laws who are lawyers and in court most days all say that today's women are different than woman back just a few years ago. They are vendictive and go beyond trying to get just child support, they actually want to lash out and hurt their ex.

My daughet in law even has had a blog about how smart she was at screwing over my son.

Maybe you are not like that but there are many women out there that are.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


The laws are very clear in most cases. Every state is a little different, but if your son is not working, then the lawyer doesn't have a lot to do. He may be vindictive on visitation, and custody, and split of marital assets, but the amount of child support that your son will owe is set in stone according to department guidelines.

Being unemployed is not a free pass, he still has capability to earn an income based on his education level and skills and previous employment, but it won't be a disabling amount.

Child Support Specifics Florida

Florida Child Support Calculator

Every state is a little different, but I'm sure you can find the regulations in your state in a matter of minutes.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Sample Calculator Amount. Assuming your son could be making $30,000 per year, and the mother could be making minimum wage. Assuming 1 child, assuming mother has full custody, assuming the mother has to pay $600 per month in daycare and another $250 per month in medical insurance. (Probably worst case scenario for a young man.)

Monthly support would be approximately $989 per month, regardless of what any attorney would do.

Now, if your son gets partial custody, or pays daycare, or provides health insurance, the amount will go down.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


My daughter in law left my son not vice versa.

Reason: he gained 40 pounds and was no longer "appealing to her".

My son was the one who worked 8 hours and then picked up my grand daugher and for the first two years took care of her every night while his "wife" went out to bars to kariokee.

While my son is out of a job, his fiance is paying the child support and her parents have even offered to pitch in.

Now, I offered $1,500.00 per month if my ex daughter in law would not keep this fighting up, but she would rather turn down more money from me than my son who is actively looking for a job.

fyi: I save all my expenditures and last year I spent 4,000 on clothes for my grand daughter as well as books, school supplies, anything she needs.

We are family and if she needs anything all she has to do is ask.

Too bad, mom stomped on the cell phone the court awarded her so that she could call stay in touch with her father, me and her grandfather.

The main thing is there are so many kids now that are being purposely alienated from their father psychologically and that is not right.

My grand daughter has come to me and told me the lies her mother is feeding her.

The system at this moment in the State of Illinois is clearly pro women and anti male.

I believe in equal justice for all.

And that includes the millions of children that are being screwed over by being used as pawns.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Here is a link to the AllLaw.com site that is provided by Florida's Child Support link. This site has calculators for every state, and it has legal advice and links to contact attorneys.

Due Diligence people.
It seems like the waters are unnavigable, but there are experts to assist you, and there are laws in place that are written to be as fair as possible.

Spending $5000 or $10,000 on an attorney may save you 10x that amount in the long run.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Yes, women because they have had to survive in a man's world for so long have learned the fine art of vendictiveness.

I actually agree with you, but this part made me chuckle.
Women have been teaching men the fine art of vindictiveness for a long long time.

As far as the fellow claiming to pay and not be a dead beat, who is he kidding?
The biggest complaint being bantered around here is the lack of responsibility of the mothers collecting the cash, but not putting it towards the kid. The age of the "dead beat dad" is behind us to a large degree.
Talk about taxation without representation

..Ex