Child Support -- Vendetta Against Males

getreadyalready is 100% correct. This applies to Canada as well.

In fact, if my wife and I seperate, based on income, kids, etc, I will owe $1,670/month.
Don't even need to divorce to check .

If you are paying more, you better get your lawyer and the calculator, and go to court.

reply to post by HomerinNC


You are right, I have bought my grand daughter really nice clothes, not junky Kmart stuff and she always comes to us in hand me downs, dressed like a pauper........another manipulative game mom likes to play.

And my grand daughter is very self-conscious about looking "ratty". She takes great pride in being well groomed.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by ofhumandescent

 

Sample Calculator Amount. Assuming your son could be making $30,000 per year, and the mother could be making minimum wage. Assuming 1 child, assuming mother has full custody, assuming the mother has to pay $600 per month in daycare and another $250 per month in medical insurance. (Probably worst case scenario for a young man.)

Monthly support would be approximately $989 per month, regardless of what any attorney would do.

Now, if your son gets partial custody, or pays daycare, or provides health insurance, the amount will go down.

Same Scenario for Pennsylvania results in child support order of $1027.

Use the Calculator, and if you are getting screwed then do something about it.

Originally posted by peck420
getreadyalready is 100% correct. This applies to Canada as well.

In fact, if my wife and I seperate, based on income, kids, etc, I will owe $1,670/month.
Don't even need to divorce to check

.
If you are paying more, you better get your lawyer and the calculator, and go to court.

You realize that this $1670/month that you are quoting equates to a full time job at 10$ per hour before tax right?
The reality of all of this, is that it is up to the judge what that final amount will be. Yes, even in Canada the guidelines can be superseded by the judge if they feel it's warranted. US calculations mean zero to a Canadian judge.

..Ex

reply to post by v3_exceed


That is not entirely true. A judgement can be appealed, and a judge would be stupid to supersede the statutes, get appealed, get overturned, and look incompetent.

Also, a Canadian judge would certainly take into account the US laws depending on the circumstance. If this is a brand new case and the child was conceived in the US, then US laws might apply. If one of the parents live in the US, then US laws might apply. If the couple both live in Canada and the child was conceived and born in Canada, then of course nobody would even be mentioning US laws now would they.

About 10 years ago I helped a friend of mine "kidnap" his two little girls. At least that's what his ex called it. The Court had granted him full custody 3 years previously, but, his ex refused to turn over the girls. After recieving custody, my friend stopped making child support payments and the Department of Welfare put out a warrant for his arrest. The Judge who granted him custody squashed the warrant, but, advised him to continue making payments. The Welfare Department kept sending his ex checks every month, but, wouldn't tell him where his girls were even after he obtained a Court order. They said that they were a State agency and didn't have to listen to a County Judge.

Finally he found out where they were and we went to get them. We took his lawyer and a certified copy of the Court order. I kept both of his ex's live-in boyfriends occupied while he packed their clothes and belongings and we left. We went straight to the airport and put him and the girls on a plane to his Sister's. He flew back a day later and packed up and moved in with his Sister for a bit.

The man was granted full custody and for over 3 years the State agencies responsible for administering child support did everything in their power to keep those girls with their Mother. Yes there is a bias in favor of Women when it comes to custody and child support and something needs to be done about it. I have one question. You hear all the time in the media about "deadbeat Dads", why don't you ever hear about "deadbeat Moms"? There are plenty of them out there.

This is to all the men on this post. When you sleep with a woman, you need to make sure that you are ready willing and able to take care of any kids that may result from your action as well as realize that you will be in a relationship with that woman for the next 21 years if you produce a child.

There are lots of women who are wonderful and make great wives, mothers and will do the right thing by their children and their men.

But there are other women who I would never want in my life. If you're dating a woman that you don't want a future with, don't get her pregnant. If she does show up pregnant, get a paternity test before you're entered onto the birth certificate as the father.

It's your responsibility to pick the right woman the first time.
If you pick a loser, that was your choice and now it's your problem.

reply to post by JIMC5499


This is a privacy issue, and a violence preventer, not a bias. Had the roles been reversed the result would have been the same. It is not a male/female thing.

Your friends case is not unique. These situations are common. The child support agency is responsible for the child, not the parents. They will enforce any child support order regardless of other competing interests or situations. They also will never disclose confidential information to either party under any circumstance.

You and your friend did the right thing. I would have done the same, but during those 3 years it was still important that the child was taken care of.

One thing makes no sense though. There is no way Child Support was enforcing anything unless a court order for support was in place. If your friend had full custody, then there could not have been an order in place for him to pay. So.......what did the mother show the child support office to get the case started? Did she commit fraud? Did she originally have custody and then it changed? There is more to the story.

reply to post by v3_exceed


That was calculated by a child support calculator for my province. Not an American calculator.

I verified the results on these CHARTS provided by the government of Canada.

My reults are high because I have multiple children, and do pretty good income wise.

I will do another using my brother-in-law. Less income, one child. He would be at $245.00/month.

It is a reasonably fair arrangement. I have no arguement with base child support. I have a very strong issues with property and financial allotments via divorce courts...whole different issue.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by v3_exceed

 

That is not entirely true. A judgement can be appealed, and a judge would be stupid to supersede the statutes, get appealed, get overturned, and look incompetent.

Also, a Canadian judge would certainly take into account the US laws depending on the circumstance. If this is a brand new case and the child was conceived in the US, then US laws might apply. If one of the parents live in the US, then US laws might apply. If the couple both live in Canada and the child was conceived and born in Canada, then of course nobody would even be mentioning US laws now would they.

Ya right.... Appearantly you haven't been through the Canadian legal system. Both myself, and my not so fortunate friend have seen the "fist of love" of the Canadian system first hand. Not only do you NOT have the automatic right to appeal because you don't like the amount set, they can and have set additional limits on the fathers. I can't say how it might be in the USA, but in Canada the system isn't about whats fair, at least not what a rational person might think is fair. All of the "it should be", or "it could be" doesn't count for a hill of beans when the judge decides you pay x.

..Ex

Originally posted by v3_exceed
Yes, even in Canada the guidelines can be superseded by the judge if they feel it's warranted.

Judges can, but only to the upside, which they usually always do for section 7 "extras".

The Guidelines are the minimums and judges can't order less than that.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


You should hire a lawyer and have the lawyer bring the blog up in court.

I don't think that the court will be so blind when they realize that they are being played.

reply to post by v3_exceed


Well that sucks! I thought Canada's system was superior to the US's?

I do not have any experience in Canada, but I have heard a lot of good things. Move to Florida! Much warmer here!

reply to post by getreadyalready


I was there when the decision was handed down. The judge actually said that it is "well known" that people in the music business are nomadic, lack moral character, and tend to be less than upstanding citizens. Her felonys weren't her fault, she was be manipulated by an abusive boyfriend according to the lawyers and judge. Since she testified against her ex it showed that she was a person of "exceptional courage and character."

Several times the judge refrenced the fact that it was an "illicit" afair and asked how his wife, kids, and friends felt about it. Then the judge made it sound like because he was older he must have "coerced" her in to the relationship.

He tried to hire a lawyer, both of them laughed. Several lawyers have told him it is nearly impossible to over turn the judge. He can file for a further reduction and he can file for visitation. However, since he is living in his business instead of a house, most likely he will only get supervised custody. At least that is the position of most lawyers.

He is appealing the extra $60,000 in back support that he acrued during the time she failed to file the proper paper work. He is also appealing the forty thousand that was acrued while waiting for a reduction hearing. According to one lawyer the $40,000 should be lowered to $10,000. They all tell him there is nothing they can do for him he can't do himself. They told him the paper work to file and said "good luck."

It has been a complete and utter travesty of justice. Fortunately she moved to a new county. That means he gets a new judge for all future actions.

reply to post by peck420


As we have been pointing out earlier in this thread, things have been slowly changing in the Canadian system. My son in now 25 years old, so I went through the system a long time ago. I don't suspect that leo123 would be paying in the 5k range if the chart were actually being followed.

In a lot of ways being Canadian is pretty good, but in some ways our judicial system is lacking. We cannot plead "no contest" when we are charged with an offense. We do not have felony or misdemeanor levels, we have "by way of indictment". I like our Medical system, but nobody likes our courts.

..Ex

reply to post by getreadyalready


Canada's system is not too bad at all, in regards to child support.

There is a host of options available to both parties, all of which is even advertised by the Canadian and Provincial governments.

It has been my experience so far, that most of the men that are having difficulties in my area, do so because they do not know about the options available to them. That and they try to use child support payments and visitation rights as a tool to get their way. Which is a big no-no in our family courst system.

If you move into spousal support and property division, it is a whole different ball game. Unfortunately, most see these as one and the same, but they are 3 seperate things under Canadian law.

In both of these other areas, the man will usually pay out the nose...repeatedly.

As my lawyer told me when i got married...kiss you ASSets goodbye .

Originally posted by v3_exceed
I don't suspect that leo123 would be paying in the 5k range if the chart were actually being followed.

It followed the chart to a "t".

Originally posted by peck420
As my lawyer told me when i got married...kiss you ASSets goodbye

.

Mine called child support, "Squeezing the lemon". Squeeze as hard as possible without killing the patient.

reply to post by logicalthinking


I feel for you as my Partner is still to this day harrassed over child support as well, and they are 20 some odd years old. And the woman is a lowlife scumbag on welfare just like your ex. We've had these kids multiple times living in our household and that PIG was still collecting while the children lived with us(they did this of their own accord, coming to live with us) with our three kids, that made a household of seven people and they were taking our money away to give to her as I was supporting the food and housing for HER kids and barely were scraping enough by to even get food for MY THREE! Ok...so I do know the s**** you're talking about it's freaking disgusting. And he went to report her for collecting while the children lived with us (and even sometimes were living with other people, like friends And the daughter (at 12 years old) lived with her 23 year old boyfriend as well.) And they said pay your back CS before you make a fraud report we won't investigate until that's paid. Yeah like he wants to wait 20 odd more years after he pays it all, for the investigation and the lawsuit to get his money back. All the while the slimebucket Hobag was getting food stamps and welfare for her daughter while she knowingly let her reside with a 23 year old male who was screwing the 12 yr old daughter (my partner had no idea of this.) It disgusted and infuriated me when I found out about it and I tried to reverse her bad judgements about the choices she was making...however her mother's and uncle's abuse and neglect has permanently damaged her entire being and I fear she will also be nothing more than another life draining, blood sucking worthless vampire to society just like her mother, I mean she already has thousands of "Illnesses" (she thinks) which is what her mother's entire welfare case is based on, mental and physical "disabilities", which are no more than a LOAD OF BS!!!!!! I think we should all line these hobag losers up in front of a firing squad I really do, but I know it's against the law... however they do need to see these trailer park welfare queens for who they really are! (and I don't mean that in by what they live in, I mean their mentality level) Freaking white trash all of them!!!! Those that are white...but the ones I do know that do this, they do tend to be white...most of the black ones and hispanic I know have pulled themselves out of it, but that's just the ones I see... so I am not making any assumptions so don't go breathing down my neck...ok.
They really do need to start investigating all those like your ex and my spouse's ex and there are a couple more cases the same I know about!

reply to post by v3_exceed


The chart may be followed, we don't know.

Most of the time child, spousal, and extra payments are "lumped" into one monthly payment.

But, this discussion is for child support only.

I know that if I get a divorce with my wife, I will be paying $1670/month child support.

I also know that I will be paying for a mortgage to a house I no longer live in, and car payments on a vehicle I will never drive. These will be given as my wife is stay-at-home, so for spousal payments and property division, I will be hooked for the bill.

That will put my total monthly expenditure (for the divorce) close to $3000 / month.

It doesn't change the fact that my child support is only $1670 of the bill.

Like I said earlier, i have issues with spousal support and property division, not with child support.