The Forbidden Fruit, Origional sin was SEX

Originally posted by gnosis111
reply to post by Hefficide

 

Those are from Dante's Inferno and have nothing to do with scripture.

The Seven Deadly Sins, also known as the Capital Vices or Cardinal Sins, is a classification of objectionable vices that has been used since early Christian times to educate and instruct followers concerning fallen humanity's tendency to sin. The final version of the list consists of wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony.

In the Book of Proverbs, it is stated that the Lord specifically regards "six things the Lord hateth, and the seventh His soul detesteth." namely:[4]

* A proud look
* A lying tongue
* Hands that shed innocent blood
* A heart that devises wicked plots
* Feet that are swift to run into mischief
* A deceitful witness that uttereth lies
* Him that soweth discord among brethren

Source

Mr. Alighieri took his cue from somewhere. And in this case it was Catholicism and the Bible.

~Heff

Originally posted by faithkeeper
Wow after watching the video in it's entirety I have chills. I have not previously known of any of this teachings. I simply looked at Genesis in a new light and attempted to have a deeper revelation of it's understanding. Seems in my own study I have stumbled onto something without any prior education or teachings of such.

I am reminded of something that was once written by a Gnostic instructor:

"The one who's Being is leading them back to the path will be able to receive many impressions that remind him/her of their purpose.

"These impressions or influences of the initiatic principles are not mechanical, they are like arrows that are shot at a target, from the Inner Being to His child. Obviously there is wind, distance and our minds are moving targets-but the quiver of the Monad that is pushing the essence is always full of arrows." - Isabel

This may or may not be the case with yourself. Only you can know yourself.


"Man know thyself and you will know the universe and the Gods."

The video was a lot to take in and I'm still absorbing it all so forgive me if I sound uneducated in asking.

And forgive me if I'm not clear enough in answering.

So man and woman we're meant to be together and to feel aroused with one another and even perform the act of sex as long as they remained only to each other, BUT no climax or orgasm. The male and the female were not meant to climax?

Isn't this an unhealthy act? I'm not making an attempt to be funny I'm serious. How could you lay with the opposite sex, go the distance all shy of ejaculation without sever un comfort and leading to health risk, not to mention, frustration, and all the emotions surround not finishing the task?

It is taught that only animals are meant to orgasm. Humans are said to have the ability to transmute our sexual fluids into Spiritual energy, called Ojas in Sanskrit. In Alchemy the Salt, Mercury, and Sulphur or Sulfur are symbols of this.

When one refrains from orgasm in the sexual act, there is actually a feeling during and afterwards of calm and peace.

The Initiate only unites sexually with his spouse in order to practice Sexual Magic; wretched is the one who unites with his spouse in order to spill the semen.

The Initiate does not experience the feeling of death that fornicators feel when they lose their semen.

Man is one half and woman is the other half. During the sexual act they experience the joy of being complete. Those who do not spill the semen preserve this joy eternally. - Samael Aun Weor

Of course during Sexual Alchemy, Lucifer tempts us a lot. Tantra is not simply "sex without orgasm". It has to be combined with prayer, visualization, and meditation.

Dalai Lama: Sex and Kalachakra

Yeshe Tsogyal: Sex and Initiation in Tibetan Buddhism

"About speech: concentrate upon mantra and energy flows -
Without energy control your sexual activity is fornication;
Properly execute the exercises of 'drawing up' and 'saturating'
And with the nails of your imagination apply an hermetic seal." - Yeshe Tsogyal

Be this the case we would never of had a populated world. This takes us back to where I left off. Eve becomes pregnant and bares a son.

The teaching regarding this, is that the couple can actually bring a very advanced Soul into this world, if they prepare for it. The method for this, is that the couple goes for nine months without performing the sexual act(and they keep themselves in chastity during this time with meditation, prayer, and pranayama); and then after that nine month period of abstinence, they begin to practice Sexual Magic again(Tantric-sex, Karmamudra, or Karezza, without reaching the orgasm), and pray that one single sperm escapes in order to fertilize the ovum.

If the Elohim and the Lords of Karma grant the petition, a Master or High level Bodhisattva will be conceived. This is said to be one level of meaning regarding the Immaculate Conception. The physical conception of a child guided by The Holy Spirit(the Immaculate Conception, I'm sure, has other levels of symbolic meaning as well).

Also, if it is in the couple's karma to get pregnant(whether they prepare for it or not), one sperm will escape in order to fertilize the ovum. However, such a karmic conception will not necessarily guarantee the bringing of a 'advanced Soul' into this world. This is what is taught anyway.

I've heard that most people who practice White Sexual Magic; end up going for five, ten, 20, 30, 40 years or even their entire lives without conceiving a child. Even if they practice Sexual Alchemy almost everyday. Although some who practice White Tantra, end up having more than one child throughout their lives. Nevertheless:

Genesis Chapter 1 verse 28 states: “Be fruitful and multiply.” To be fruitful signifies to transmute and sublimate the sexual energy in order to grow spiritually.

But what I have trouble with is...the frustration of refraining from orgasm.

Orgasm is a strong pleasure that completes and bonds man with wife.

Read:


Igneous Rose: The Magic, Sexual Energy, and Mind of the Inner Buddha - Chapter 6: THE APPLE TREE

If we all of us tomorrow follow this teaching...the world would no longer become populated and mankind as we know it would cease to exists.

According to my limited understanding, not all Monads(Souls) want to achieve Self-Realization. And out of the ones who do want to attain it, not many succeed:

"Enter ye in at the strait gate (of Eden): for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction (Gehenna is what is written in Greek), and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." - Matthew 7: 13-14

For those Monads who do not want Self-Realization; their Essence simply experiences the ups and downs, pleasures and pains, of life etc., throughout all their incarnations, and they eventually return to the unconditioned Bliss of the Absolute(during the Pralayas or Cosmic Nights), but without having attained Mastery.

Mastery is said to carry over into proceeding Manvantaras or Cosmic Days. The Masters being the Gods who already Know Good and Evil due to having experienced Good and Evil during previous Cosmic Days).


A lot of this is explained in these audio lectures:

Gnostic Radio Lectures

How is it that for all these years, way before I was even born, Church groups have held Bible study yet no one see's past the implanted images within the confines of the text?

No deep study could have taken place. I'm certain if I joined a bible study group and gave my analysis of Genesis I would be banished from the Church, The Bible study group and the community.

Funny it seems my fellow Christians have not commented further.

I'm sure they are thinking however. This is why I currently don't attend any church.

Now I'm also curious as to what the rest of the book holds for me.

Re Tamahu

you wrote:

"When one refrains from orgasm in the sexual act, there is actually a feeling during and afterwards of calm and peace."

From many years of firsthand contact (both personally experienced and in doctrinal contexts) with orgasm-less sex, I'm inclined to disagree with your sweeping generalisation. I've met practitisioners of various kinds of sexual experimentation (including tantra) and an above average percentage of them ended up being more or less mentally unstable in a strictly clinical sense; not the slight confusion a person can feel after an epinoia experience.

These people did their sexual experiments under supervision of 'gurus', so it's not a question of private playing with fire. And what's worse is, that many of the 'gurus' themselves appear to be as deranged as their 'disciple' victims. Eventually turning out to be inconsistent in their own lives concerning the sexual practises they taught.

Later you write:

"Of course during Sexual Alchemy, Lucifer tempts us a lot. Tantra is not simply "sex without orgasm". It has to be combined with prayer, visualization, and meditation."
and

" If the Elohim and the Lords of Karma grant the petition, a Master or High level Bodhisattva will be conceived. This is said to be one level of meaning regarding the Immaculate Conception. The physical conception of a child guided by The Holy Spirit(the Immaculate Conception, I'm sure, has other levels of symbolic meaning as well)."

Your new-age coctail of Elohim, Lucifer, tantra, Dalia Lama, immaculate conception, monads, boddhisatvas, karma, good-and-evil, ascended god-like masters, cosmic plans, prayer, gnostic masters etc is a bit indigestable.

I'm a great believer in inclusive systems of 'knowledge', but if it isn't to appear as ridiculous, there should be some manifested coherence between all the seemingly incompatible doctrines presented. Otherwise it looks just like meaningless ramblings from a confused person trying to enforce an imagined order on life to feel safe. Or possible parroting still another 'guru'; ... as if we didn't have enough 'gurus' already.

The way I see it, Adam and Eve certainly did have sex before "The Fall", but strictly for pro-creation, Cain's wife from Nod had to come from somewhere. I believe the "crime" if you will, was acting on information given by the "serpent". Having sex for personal fulfillment, instead of pro-creation. Once they partook of the "knowledge" they found feelings of personal fulfillment, outside of God, and he was angered. This was the birth of lust. Thereby Eve was "punished" with labor pains, and bleeding, as a constant reminder of of the "crime" committed in God's eyes. Adam was kicked out of the garden, and they were both sentenced to death, having numbered days, stripped of immortality. That is unless they ate of the tree of life, which was guarded from that day forth by Cherubims, and a flaming sword.

Originally posted by bogomil
From many years of firsthand contact (both personally experienced and in doctrinal contexts) with orgasm-less sex, I'm inclined to disagree with your sweeping generalisation.

All I'll say about this for now, is that when applying the Scientific Method, one often has to perform an experiment numerous times, and also has to consider other factors and circumstances before seeing consistent, verifiable results. Really, in order to practice Karmamudra, Karezza, Sexual Magic, White Tantra, etc. correctly, one not only has to understand scriptures of an authentic religion or religions(whether read, or received via oral-tradition); but it also requires one to become a scientist.

And to be truly unbiased in any experiment isn't always easy, especially when we have a lot of ego; and this goes for myself just as much as anyone else. Moreover, many would-be scientists who think that they're unbiased, actually are not, because they don't even suspect how ego effects consciousness and perception. "Not only do they ignore, but they ignore that they ignore."

Anyhow, perhaps I stated or quoted some things without adding enough information, and is why said quotes or statements appeared to be sweeping generalizations. Although if you click on the links provided in my posts, there is PLENTY of info. At the very least, there's enough information in order to form a solid hypothesis.

Alchemy is a subtle science that is not just intellectual alone, and it also requires much effort and patience. Remember that Sexual Alchemy or Karma-Mudra is not just simply "sex without orgasm" alone(although NOT reaching orgasm is required for the practice, and is the Foundation(Yesod) of awakening Kundalini).

The famous Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus states:

"Separate that spiritous Earth from the dense or crude by means of a gentle heat with much attention."

And:

"Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which YHVH-Elohim had made." - Genesis 3:1

Originally posted by bogomil
I've met practitisioners of various kinds of sexual experimentation (including tantra) and an above average percentage of them ended up being more or less mentally unstable in a strictly clinical sense; not the slight confusion a person can feel after an epinoia experience.

If they are mentally unstable, it is because they are ignoring something very important:

PSYCHOLOGICAL EQUILIBRIUM

"...Only the student who has comprehended Psychological Equilibrium can awaken the fire of the Kundalini.

"This is where so many fail.

"So many believe it is just “a matter of time.” They may say it in many ways, but the essence is the same: they “believe,” but they are not realizing that it is up to them to implement the steps to reach that awakening.

"The Advent of the Fire is not bestowed upon us for good behavior. It is given when we have earned it by establishing within ourselves the psychological requirements....

This is related to the Ordeals and Minor Mysteries that are found in the Esoteric Schools since ancient times, to prepare the Initiate for the Major Mysteries.

Originally posted by bogomil
These people did their sexual experiments under supervision of 'gurus', so it's not a question of private playing with fire. And what's worse is, that many of the 'gurus' themselves appear to be as deranged as their 'disciple' victims. Eventually turning out to be inconsistent in their own lives concerning the sexual practises they taught.

No disagreement here.


See:

About Schools

Scriptures on Spiritual Community

Seeking the Master: Teachers and Students

Originally posted by bogomil
Your new-age coctail of Elohim, Lucifer, tantra, Dalia Lama, immaculate conception, monads, boddhisatvas, karma, good-and-evil, ascended god-like masters, cosmic plans, prayer, gnostic masters etc is a bit indigestable.

I'm a great believer in inclusive systems of 'knowledge', but if it isn't to appear as ridiculous, there should be some manifested coherence between all the seemingly incompatible doctrines presented. Otherwise it looks just like meaningless ramblings from a confused person trying to enforce an imagined order on life to feel safe. Or possible parroting still another 'guru'; ... as if we didn't have enough 'gurus' already.

The terms utilized in my posts that you're referring to were used with accuracy and in their proper context. Said terms are also the ones utilized by Occultists of actual Gnostic, Theosophical, Rosicrucian, and Masonic Lodges. Here's an excellent compilation of sources(which includes many references from the Theosophical Glossary):

gnosticteachings.org...

www.greatliberation.org...

www.dharmafellowship.org...

lionsroar.name...

Did you know that H.P. Blavatsky's "The Voice of the Silence" was printed under the auspices of the Panchen Lama, or Tashi Lama himself? And that in the forward to the Dalai Lama's first English book, he stated his affiliation with the Theosophical Society?

The links I've provided in my previous post clearly state, from Yeshe Tsogyal and also the Dalai Lama himself, that the semen has to be retained in order to see any authentic Spiritual-attainment. All religions(the Hebrew, Buddhist, Taoist, Khemetian, etc.) state the same thing. And Yeshe Tsogyal and the Dalai Lama are not "new-age gurus". They are authentic practitioners.


One final quote:

Our order possesses the key which opens up all Masonic and Hermetic secrets, namely, the teachings of sexual magic, and this teaching explains, without exception, all the secrets of Freemasonry and all systems of religion. - The editors of Oriflamme

reply to post by Nosred


Good response. From my knowledge it was the tree of knowledge that they ate from and Lilith was the first female created. It's sad how the catholic church refuse to acknowledge that though. Just for a reaction I asked my local priest one day "Why is Lilith not specifically mentioned in bible like Eve is?" He looked like he'd seen a ghost or something hahaha. But regardless I think the world should know the truth about things.

It is interesting that before getting caste out of Eden, Adam (אדם) and Eve (חוה) are called: Aish or Ish (איש) and Aisha or Isha (אשה), respectively.


Notice also that the Sphere of Nahemah or Naamah is simply associated with ordinary fornication: Orgasm due to natural (yet animalistic) sex between male and female, lustful beauty, prostitution, adultery, etc.

Whereas the Sphere of Lilith is associated with extremely base fornication: Hatred towards sex or towards the opposite sex, pederasty, sadomasochism, homosexuality, sodomy, masturbation, birth-control, etc.

reply to post by faithkeeper


i agree, completely, the bible is not to be understood literally. I cant imagine a lion feeling shame or a dog feeling shame for having sex, though it is taught to be a sign of "weakness" by Paul not by Jesus or God, if the main churches could see that sexual perversions come from Primitive super-ego prohibitions in part created BY THEM in particular foms of minds: primitive super-egos that prohibit biological drives like libido and love. sex is tricky and can become a form of love, compulsion, aggresssion, dominance and masochism. King david and Solomon had many (thousand) wives, and had sex with each one of them . But sex was not the fault with David but wanting more excitement: a married woman which COULD be a form of sexual perversion when someone has thousands of women to have intercourse with. the more you preach against sex to be good the more your psychopathology

How could the original sin have been that of intercourse? It doesn't make any sense given that earlier in the book of Genesis, God told them to "be fruitful and multiply". The only way for humans to "multiply" is to have sex.

I'm a little late to the discussion but I thought i'd mention that it has been thought by some that Adam was Androgynous until 'he' was split into male and female hence Gen 2:21-25. I think it's interesting to note that as we read of Eve being taken out of Adam ('him' being split into male and female) Gen. 2:24, we read: "24. Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." and the next verse I think is interesting for this thread's descussion, "25. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."
There's a great deal of occultic thought on the exoteric and esoteric meanings (as there are multiple layers) of Genesis.