Abortion is morally WRONG

reply to post by awake_and_aware

Anyway, we ARE animals? What else do you think we are?

You may be an animal, and claim it proudly.

I, for one, am no animal, in any sense of the word. I believe I am a uniquely created creature, formed by Yahweh. It's fine with me if that's not your belief.

Originally posted by jennybee35
You may be an animal, and claim it proudly.

I, for one, am no animal, in any sense of the word. I believe I am a uniquely created creature, formed by Yahweh. It's fine with me if that's not your belief.

By the scientific definition, you are infact an animal. You are also a mammal, and dare I say, an ape.

Why people can't accept this, I have no idea.

reply to post by PieKeeper


I will tell you once again that I am no animal. You may believe what you choose about your own origins, same as I. It may be that we are truly not the same kind of creature.

I cannot understand why people cannot just accept this.

reply to post by jennybee35


That's your belief, but the evidence shows that we evolved. You probably will say Yahweh created evolution, and watched all the pain and suffering in the universe with indifference, solar systems blown up, cities flooded, the Sun sometimes causing solar flares that radiate the earth.

Some creator that is.

We ARE animals, we one of the unique species here on earth in that we can empathise with other species themselves, we can build things and seek patterns, that's what makes us difference from our cousins the apes.

I can still recognise beauty in nature without the need to invoke God.

Things that we couldnt explain years ago are now explainable, we don't think disease is punishment from God, or that volcanos, tsunami's and earthquakes are punishment, this is nonsense, and i grant myself to think that God is nonsense too.

It goes against science, having answers before evidence, being Gnostic without any information.

It's stupidarded.

And btw you think you are uniquely created because you think that God has something special in mind for you, out of all the lifeforms in the universe, just you, you're the specially created one, who cares about animals and wildlife who fight each other daily, Yahweh could not give a MONKEYS about them? Pretty nice god you worship, and pretty ego-centric to think that the creator of the universe uniquely created you.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


I am so sorry you feel the need to judge me. That's all right, I understand. I understand your need to believe you are your own god. Good luck with that.

reply to post by jennybee35


I never judged you, i'm just arguing your points that you're making.

"God" is a meaningless word to me so i'm sorry. I'm not my own God, and if I was a God i definetly wouldn't demand people worship me or to read a book a bunch of humans had written.

See i don't see myself as an abject slave, i don't fall under the totalitarian edict that is organised religion. And yet i can still show compassion and solidarity to my fellow humans, and will try to emancipate them, to free them from this metaphorical slavery.

Sometimes i feel religion demands respect though, in the same way that you tolerate i child running around talking about Santa.

Religious people are all anti-theists. They're against every other religion there is.

They may say they "tolerate them" or that "they're all pretty much the same" but they're just like atheists really, they just worship one more God.

Religion is purely geographic and time based.

If someone grows up in Israel, they're more likely to be a Jew or a Muslim rather than a Christian.

Also, you may see that Zeus or Ra, or many of the animalistic God's from ancient egypt are not worshipped anymore. Hmmm why is this?

It seems very obvious why there are so many religions, so many CONTRASTING religions, it's because MAN made religion, it wasn't "GOD" it was MAN.

reply to post by awake_and_aware

See i don't see myself as an abject slave, i don't fall under the totalitarian edict that is organised religion.

See, I don't either. Organized religion has sent more people to hell than anything else on all of God's green earth in all of history, since the beginning of the universe. That is something you won't be taught anywhere.

I am no slave, but I AM a bondservant in the household of Christ. I willingly choose to place myself in His household. My love and loyalty and trust all belong to Yahweh.

I didn't realize just how misled we are until my eyes were opened. The bible is a great general guideline for life (the New Testament, that is) because it's message is one of peace and acceptance. The Old Testament is history. I understand that the history of the Hebrews is very important, that there are many lessons to be learned.

But, from the very first time that bible was translated by the very first scribe, way back in history, God was made to look like a terrible, vengeful maniac. That is not the true Yahweh. What has been attributed to Him through millenia is a distortion of the truth. Just like any ancient text, men were able to put their spin on the stories. Whenever it suited someone's political or religious agenda, the text was tweaked to suit their purposes.

It is not that hard to see that what we have today is a distortion of the true nature of Yahweh. It has certainly accomplished it's evil purpose, has it not?

If you are interested, there is a truer (to me) translation of the text. Here it is. Why not give something new a try?
LINK

reply to post by jennybee35

See, I don't either. Organized religion has sent more people to hell than anything else on all of God's green earth in all of history, since the beginning of the universe. That is something you won't be taught anywhere.

I'm sorry, i just don't buy any of this unfalsifiable metaphorical nonsense. Firstly, man doesn't have the evidence that a sentient (supernatural) being created the universe, so how do Deists (people, not of organised religion) know this very fact? What's their argument, how do they justify their belief in God?

I'm an anti-theist because i know God was made by man, and i disagree with the doctrines, see, i'm not a Muslim, and i disagree with all the others, i just disagree with the idea of it. Even without organised religion, it's the wishful thinking of a child without the necassary information to come to an informed decision. It's why its given the name "faith", a belief without evidence. And this is expected to be respected in public and in the arena of the debate? Why i ask?

In conclusion, it's easy to understand religion and the wishful thinking of man when you consider all the contrasting religions and idealogy in the world. Why we don't worship Zeus any more etc. Because it's idiotic. Yet this very idea of wishful thinking and our need to create a theocracy carries on and on and on. And the gullible will follow.

I'm not going to severly disrespect a Deist, someone who believes in a creator, but someone who claims to know his name, know what his desires are, know how he wants you to behave, how to have sex, what food to eat is just disgusting form of stupidity that we should've had rid of by now.

I respect you for the purpose of debate, and i won't disrespect you personally unless you give me good reason to and i'm not judging you personally, i'm merely here to debate your stances on religion and God (and abortion of cause) some of which i may dispect with all of my heart.

Peace

My fiance was raped by her ex boyfriend. He wasn't wearing a condom.

Based on your beliefs, she was morally wrong for aborting the fetus? I think she did the right thing by aborting the baby and contacting the authorities.

If you're not in a specific situation, don't concern yourself with other's actions. Seriously. I'm tired of this "holier than thou" bull# when it comes to abortion. MIND YOUR BUSINESS.

reply to post by newBodyoldSoul


I feel for your fiance, this is the very reason i support abortion, the fact that we have the technology and ability to use it ethically, using medical advice and a informed decision of the parent, encouraging contraceptive as the primary means of preventing conception.

Just because i'm pro-abortion doesn't mean i want babies dead, or that i want all women to "have a go" - it's a very serious matter and should only be used as a last resort for the sake of the mother and the sake of the fetus that could have been a baby.

reply to post by awake_and_aware

I'm an anti-theist because i know God was made by man

I believe you are right in the sense that the god that is presented today was made by man. You keep accusing me of knowing what God expects. I do, when it comes to ME. I know that abortion is murder. I know without questioning that every zygote is contains a soul that has come across to posess a human body. The aborting of that flesh is an abomination before God. Like it or lump it. And I know you don't believe it. I am not trying to force it on you. I have my beliefs, the same as you. But here you did not say you believe that God doesn't exist, but that you know. That is a bold statement to make. You have no proof that He is false. The same way I have no proof that He exists. It is a belief.

And I absolutely agree that this many versions of gods is ridiculous. That is man's doing. That has absolutely nothing to do with God. That is why it is such a disaster.

You say you are here to debate my stance on God, although you keep labeling it religion. All I've seen you say so far is how you've seen others express their beliefs. You don't know anything about me, nor I you. I am unlike anyone you have ever met before when it comes to my beliefs, I promise. I have never, as was suggested in another post, claimed to have some special relationship, or some special designation from Yahweh. Anyone who is after God's heart and seeks His truth can have the exact same relationship. But it has to be a personal thing between you and Yahweh. No other man should ever be the go-between.

reply to post by newBodyoldSoul


He was her ex-boyfriend? Had she willingly had sex with him before the rape? Then at some point, she was accepting of the fact that she could possibly bear his child. How did the child come to be blamed for a risk that she had willingly taken up until the time of the assault? If he was an acceptabl mate for possible children at all other times, then nothing should have changed. Would she have willingly aborted the baby had she still been in a relationship with her ex?

Originally posted by jennybee35
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

I am not trying to force it on you. I have my beliefs, the same as you. But here you did not say you believe that God doesn't exist, but that you know. That is a bold statement to make. You have no proof that He is false. The same way I have no proof that He exists. It is a belief.

I admit, i don't have definitive proof there is no God, the same way that you don't have definitive proof that a Supernatural Invisible Teapot doesn't orbit your Body daily.

Saying there is "no God" is often refferred to as positive atheism. And i will be the first one to admit that it is really as absurd as the positive assertation that there is a God, as we just don't have the evidence.

But the people who claim God, they are the one's with the burden of proof.

If someone says "I'm a medium, i can talk to dead people" I'd say "i want you to demonstrate that this is the case under reasonable conditions"

They are the people with the burden of proof as they have made a positive assertation.

Again, i'm as agnostic as you when it comes to God, i just don't have the evidence to make a decision, but i will say I am against people who say they know what God wants of them, i don't trust peope like that, it's deception of other people and deception of their own minds.

That's why i am against theism, an anti-theist - because no one can have these theories without evidence, it's nonsense. And people who claim to be the messengers of God, the preists have feel just fallen pray to the power structure that is organised religion, it needs to stop, people need to stop fighting.

www.youtube.com...

Here's a jaunty tune to describe what i mean, you may enjoy it, open your mind But not TOO much.

Peace again.

Originally posted by jennybee35
reply to post by PieKeeper

 

I will tell you once again that I am no animal.

You don't understand. By the scientific definition, you actually are an animal. It's simply biological classification. You're just as much an animal as a dog or a cat.

Meriam-Webster:

Animal - any of a kingdom (Animalia) of living things including many-celled organisms and often many of the single-celled ones (as protozoans) that typically differ from plants in having cells without cellulose walls, in lacking chlorophyll and the capacity for photosynthesis, in requiring more complex food materials (as proteins), in being organized to a greater degree of complexity, and in having the capacity for spontaneous movement and rapid motor responses to stimulation.

reply to post by PieKeeper

Really? You mean that you expect me to take as fact the definition of "animal" written by some man somewhere at a time when he believed that men are animals too? How is that scientists opinion any different than that of anyone elses opinion of what something is? Just because some of functions are the same does not make that species. My OPINION of it is that I am a unique creation.

Why does it bother you that my opinion differs from yours on this? If I want to believe that I am really Smurfette hidden in human form, it's okay.

reply to post by jennybee35


Because scientists looks for patterns that we can all relate to and come to an agreement on, so that we can create practical things to improve our lives like medicine, architecture, sanitation.

As far as science says, we are similar to animals in that we are "life" we have much the same systems as they have. We can differenciate between species now using DNA.

The very fact that we have DNA like Animals shows that we are of a similar makeup, we are life.

See, the age of enlightenment has braught us many pleasures, the joy of science and its application into improving our lives, if we'd spent as much time history getting off our knees and applying the scientific method as we had on our knees praying to invisible people, the world would be a much better place.

reply to post by jennybee35


Your ignorance doesn't even deserve a response.

I'm not posting on here for shock value. Said story is true, and the scenario you put forth bears no weight. I'll be moving along.

Jenny, i still get the feeling you think we are heartless, insensitive people with no meaning to life. I insist that this is not the case, that i care for my fellow humans and that i bring meaning to my own life as i am greatful for my existence here.

I'm not debating you to be over-zelous, or to inflate my own ego, i come here to open minds, to offer my opinion, my point of view.

Atheists often get accused of being "closed-minded" - I want it known that we are very open-minded, within reason.

reply to post by awake_and_aware

I agree that we have the same basic dna as all other animals, but that 1% that makes us different is what makes us different.

How is that hard to understand?