Abortion is morally WRONG

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Monts

 

becoming a human being from the point of conception, because the genes are all there, and it will keep those genes as it grows over time from present to future; from 1 cell to an old person dying in their bed.

Death of a person is medically defined as an irreversible end of all brain activity, not the breakdown of DNA. It is logical to have similar criterion as a beginning of a person.

Yes it is, but that person has no future ahead of them when they die.
It is logical to call brain activity as the criterion as the beginning of a person, but is illogical to call that the beginning of a human life.
Again, it comes down to whether you see ending a "person", or a "human life" as criterion for murder.

reply to post by OhZone


It sounds like to me, you want to control the population by using abortions. You say Adoption Agencies find it hard to adopt out black babies. That does not mean their life isn't important. Why did you pull the race card anyway for this topic? An unborn baby is an unborn baby. I don't care what color the child is. It is what it is. When a person has sex, the outcome can be a child. If you don't like the way sex works, then take it up with the Creator.

You seem to assume a lot about my thinking. Based on what I have said on this thread, you think I want to take rights away from women. I don't. I want to highlight the importance that the unborn have rights too.

Originally posted by RisingPhoenix33
reply to post by OhZone

 

It sounds like to me, you want to control the population by using abortions. You say Adoption Agencies find it hard to adopt out black babies. That does not mean their life isn't important. Why did you pull the race card anyway for this topic? An unborn baby is an unborn baby. I don't care what color the child is. It is what it is. When a person has sex, the outcome can be a child. If you don't like the way sex works, then take it up with the Creator.

You seem to assume a lot about my thinking. Based on what I have said on this thread, you think I want to take rights away from women. I don't. I want to highlight the importance that the unborn have rights too.

With this in mind it is an inhumane act, a crime against humanity NOT to allow loving homosexual couples to adopt and provide the many orphaned children available good homes and loving parents.
Let me say I respect your position, opinion and beliefs so this is not intended to refute those in any way. It is sort of an aside.
My friend is a white girl and she and her husband cannot conceive and they would like a white baby. They have been looking for a few years and cannot find a white baby because black women do not choose abortion.
Read into that what you will.
I agree they should be happy with any baby but choosing to care for a child is a wonderful, magnanimous sacrifice and it should be their choice with perhaps a nudge from the big G, but essentially their once and forever choice.
And if it is not a wonderful, magnanimous sacrifice... You are not doing it right.

A flag for the derp of this thread so that other people come to watch the delight.

Monts says: “I know that the "my body, my choice" is an absurd argument... and I aruged that because someone challenged me to do so. As I said in an earlier post, no pro-abortionist who has researched the debate is ever going to use the "my body, my choice" as their argument. It is fatally flawed.

****Nothing flawed about my body, my choice. Why should what happens to her body be Your choice? You are being totally callous toward thoughts of the woman or 14 year old girl who doesn‘t want to be pregnant. Does she have a right to own her body or not?
If she indeed owns it why should she do as you chooze for her?

Monts, a “someone has a personality and a sexual identification. A mass of cells has neither. My Roses have more personality than any fetus.

You see abortion as murder, but that is still Your opinion. How exactly do you see the life of the woman who does Not want a child. What kind of life do you see for a child born to a mother who may hate it?

How do you see the situation where in a fertility clinic after the choice zygote has been implanted the lab tech flushes the remaining ones down the drain? Is that murder?

Kill a person with an annoying voice? You are talking about an already born fully developed, walking, talking person, not a clump of cells that need a host to survive. A non argument.

.Jack Squat says: “I should add that I think the REAL debate should be over what point in a pregnancy is too late to abort, not whether or not we allow it to happen at all.”

****I agree we have to draw a line somewhere. The best place seems to be at the point where the fetus can survive outside the woman’s body. This is usually by the beginning of the 6th month. If she waited that long she can continue for another 3 or opt for delivery. I know of women who have had induced labor or c-sections at this point for vanity reasons, and the pregnancy was purposeful not an accident.

Logically any woman should know in the first month whether she wants to stay pregnant or not.

Jenniebee, we are not being callous, we are being dispassionately logical. You and other “pro-lifers” are seeing only thru emotions which is always the wrong way to see any problem. Tell me, how do your emotions see/feel for the poor 14 year old girl who finds herself pregnant? Do you even give her feelings and her future life any consideration in the matter? Why do you insist that the fetus is more important and that the woman must sacrifice for it?

Christian39, how many children have you adopted. There a lot of them available you know?
And you want all pro-choicers to be sterilized? How are you going to pull that one off?

Jennie, you are so naive. Are you aware that about half of the abortions are for Black girls? That child would have 0% of being adopted. Evidence of how these children are loved and cared for is running all over the streets of the inner city. Go take a look.

Rising Phoenix, No I do not want to control population by abortion. Sterilization does a much neater and more efficient job of that.

“Race card”? - so you’re one of those.
Phoenix, I merely mentioned a FACT. Black babies are not likely to be adopted, so that is not an option for them. Do you have a problem dealing with facts?
You too need to get better acquainted with life in the inner city. Maybe you could talk to them about safe sex.

reply to post by OhZone


"My body my choice" is an absurd argument when it is in competition with "the right to life".
The right to do what one wants with their body can never override the right to life... as the right to do what one wants with one's own body wouldn't even exist without the right to life.

How on earth could you justify any kind of harm or death that occurs to a human life on the basis that you can do what you want with your body?

The statement is totally selfish and absurd, and reminds me more of a schoolyard fight than a real debate.

If you have looked over the comments on this thread, you would see that the debate has rarely included that argument for such reasons.

And again, as I've said many times already in this debate, as soon as conception occurs, you have a clump of cells with a unique set of HUMAN genes that has a FUTURE that will include it being birthed, growing up, living a life, and dying; just like you and me.

It doesn't matter when the abortion occurs, the FUTURE of that life is terminated.
It doesn't matter what the future may include... because if you use the argument that it is better off dead then living a bad life, then you must agree that the vast majority of women around the world should be aborting their children simply because they are going to have a bad life.
What is a "bad life" anyways???
Even if you could give a solid definition, how can you be absolutely certain the child will end up living a "bad life" without resorting to playing russian roulette with chance?
Even if you could prove the baby would have a terrible life, and it would better off be dead, then how come the consequence of a problem that is totally out of its control being paid for with its LIFE?

If these "contexts" given as "valid" reasons behind abortions were applied to anything but abortion, they would be ridiculous, ugly, gruesome, genocidal, and eugenic.

But seeing as it's just a "clump of cells" that you can't see at the moment, then it's in a new category.

Did you know that the baby must be killed inside the mother's uterus, or else it would be murder?
As soon as the baby comes out of the uterus, it has all the same rights as you and me.
So only a few inches separate the rights of a human life from those of an ant.

reply to post by OhZone

No I do not want to control population by abortion. Sterilization does a much neater and more efficient job of that.

I agree with you. This is the answer to all the kids running around the inner city streets, as well as the answer to all the neglected babies in run-down projects and trailer parks. There are just as many white ones as black down here. Yeah, sounds horribly callous and hypocritical coming from me. So what. It's true. Too many of these people are given motive and rationale that do not apply to them. They are not thinking of what kind of future they want to build for a child. They are generally thinking of how much more in food stamps and federal aid they will receive if they bear another child.
It is not about love and nurture for the majority of these people. I believe they are a product of several generations of government manipulation and hand-outs. So flame me for it. It is what it is.

As for the emotion part: I sure hate that you think I ought not be emotional about something I believe is murder. That is my BELIEF. That means it automatically involves emotion. Deal with it, or not.

Another belief I have is that 14 yr. old girl you speak of knows what can happen if she has sex. There is not a 10 yr. old alive today who has not heard and does not know the consequences of sex, much less a 14 yr. old. Don't talk to me about her future. 9 months will not derail her future much.

I want to depopulate the planet its easy to do this.. every women who gets an abortion is killed.. as well as the man who planted his seed.. there ya go problem solved.. want to kill some one you are killed.. wish that was the case tho.. think of how many problems we could solve with that.. more food for the kids that are already here.. and if a 14 year old is stupid enough to get preggo.. than I don't see it as much of a loss if she dies either..

reply to post by OhZone

The best place seems to be at the point where the fetus can survive outside the woman’s body. This is usually by the beginning of the 6th month. If she waited that long she can continue for another 3 or opt for delivery. I know of women who have had induced labor or c-sections at this point for vanity reasons, and the pregnancy was purposeful not an accident.

I cannot agree with that. The best place to draw the line would be when the cortex begins to develop, thats around 5th month. Also, the woman should not be able to opt out for delivery before the babys development is generaly completed, and definitely not 3 months before. Preterm birth is associated with lots of lifelong health risks and consequences.
BTW, the limit of viability is at the end of 6th month (24 weeks), not at the beginning, and even that is stretching it.

i think it is as satanic as sacking the 2nd or 3rd temple by force and using that as a sacrificial cornerstone for modern "thought".

Monts, So if the fertilized human egg is now a human life, when you break open a fertilized chicken egg, are you killing a chicken?
When you eat it are you eating an egg or a chicken?

Your idea of the right to life is a little skewed. Where did this “right to life” originate?
If I created this “life” with parts of my own body, then I have a right to terminate it.

Don’t ever call anyone “selfish”. Selfish is equal to Survival. There is no reason to ever sacrifice your own self for another. I find your arguments absurd. More so inasmuch as you seem to think that this sacrifice is some kind of absolute universal law.

No, I don’t think that the vast amount of women around the world should be having abortions to prevent their children from having a bad life. I think they should be sterilized en mass as a preventive measure.

Obviously you know what a “bad life” is.

Monts, I said before that I do not condone late term abortions, so don’t get into that “having rights” argument. A 4 or 5 month fetus will die inside or outside the mother’s body, it has no chance of survival.

Reaper2137 says: “I want to depopulate the planet its easy to do this.. every women who gets an abortion is killed.. as well as the man who planted his seed.. there ya go problem solved.. want to kill some one you are killed.. wish that was the case tho.. think of how many problems we could solve with that.. more food for the kids that are already here.. and if a 14 year old is stupid enough to get preggo.. than I don't see it as much of a loss if she dies either.”.

****So you do believe in murder! You would save the unborn and kill the already born.
You seem to think that only the unborn have a right to life.
How do you justify taking away the right to life of the already born?
That’s some really twisted logic, but so typical of most so-called pro-lifers.
They are about the biggest hypocrites ever to walk the Earth.

And none of you have said how many of these Unwanted children you would adopt.
None of you have even said that you would be willing to mentor any of these Unwanted children.
None of you have said that you would be willing to pitch in $$ to help support any of these children. You could buy clothing, wholsome food and school supplies for them. How many of you are willing to do that?

I hear your Silence. I see you sitting there clinging to your time; clinging to your money, but shouting that all the Unwanted children be born anyway, just so long as you do not have to do anything in anyway to care for them.

I did know a couple who put their resources where their mouth was. They took in drug addicted newborns and cared for them thru their withdrawal pains. They were fine caring people, the rest of you are just big mouths; all rhetoric’ No Substance.

Originally posted by Reaper2137
I want to depopulate the planet its easy to do this.. every women who gets an abortion is killed.. as well as the man who planted his seed.. there ya go problem solved.. want to kill some one you are killed.. wish that was the case tho.. think of how many problems we could solve with that.. more food for the kids that are already here.. and if a 14 year old is stupid enough to get preggo.. than I don't see it as much of a loss if she dies either..

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Want to prevent overpopulation? Start with sex education and access to contraceptives.

reply to post by PieKeeper


I don't know where you are from, but here in Louisiana, sex education starts at about 10 yrs. of age, and there are free condoms in every health clinic, even the school based clinics. There is no no shortage of contaceptives or educational materials here. It doesn't make much difference, because no one wants to take responsibility for their actions.

The majority of these kids (and adults) are just out for a good time and damn the consequences. That is why the STD rates are climbing steeply again. People just quit caring about the consequences of their actions.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


As far as I'm concerned, people who condone abortion, are putting themselves on an animalistic level. I mean, reeally...

reply to post by jennybee35


If they can get on here and talked about abortion as if it is an okay eveyday thing, as if killing an unborn child is nothing more than taking out the trash, then let them call it what they want...

reply to post by PieKeeper


Oh, my bad, I didn't know you were an expert on fetal interpretation & thought...

reply to post by PieKeeper


Oh, my bad, I didn't realize you are an expert on fetal interpretation & thought....

Behold, children are a heritage from the LORD,
The fruit of the womb is a reward.-Psalm127

Children’s children are the crown of the old,
And the glory of children is their parents.-Prov17

he will honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not will he honour-Dan11

Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under-Matt2

There have been more than 40 million abortions in the twenty six years since the U.S. Supreme Court legalized unrestricted abortion on January 22, 1973. www.nrlc.org...

and did not one fashion us in the womb?-Job31

And what does he want? Godly children -Mal2

reply to post by Rustami


Here is the sad truth of it:

Matthew 13: 14&15

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears
and they have closed their eyes
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.

There is a reason that nothing we say seems to penetrate the minds and hearts of the people. To these it is foolishness we speak.

reply to post by christian39


Quite the opposite, animals don't have the ability to think ethically and abort a child that would have a bad life or is not feasable.

That's what makes us human, the ability to think critically and with empathy.

Anyway, we ARE animals? What else do you think we are?