I just saw Fahrenheit 9/11....

You are correct Donguillermo. People, myself included, tend to use extremes to make their point. I am not saying that is the way to do it though.

It was very good, much more professional than I thought it would be. Even the comedy that was in it was done well and without getting out of hand IMO. More of just something to keep it from being to depressing or dry.

Most of the stuff covered was stuff I've seen around here in abundance. Personally I felt the most interesting aspect was watching 'them' personally shooting themselves in the foot instead of having someone else explain it second hand or reading about it in an online article or news paper or whatever.

For those who are already well informed most of it will be known already. For those less familiar with the 'who's who' in politics today it will be a nice wake up call.

All in all though it was worth seeing whatever your political stance may be.

[edit on 26-6-2004 by mOjOm]

I just came back and saw it too, an hour ago. I agree Mojom, whatever your politics go see it! The hole has been dug..........Bush and company.

Originally posted by Agent47
If you want to seriously discusss the isssues of 9/11 and the administration do it here on ATS. Im sickened that admin has even given this pile of crud its own forum.

Ok like michel moore is going to come to ATS to talk about the bush administration. Taking dosn't do crap with out action. I'm gald someone is showing the ugly side of capitalism.

I never liked bush i never voted for him my parents didn't vote for him and my friends parents didn't vote for him in fact most of the people I know in Culver City didn't vote for him, I don't like bush and I specially don't like ashcroft and the whole administration, they are a bunch of clowns, i'm not going to see the movie, and i dont care about what it shows all i know is that my life has gone downhill since bush took office and i need a change NOW!!! so bush and followers shut up, you are giving me a headache.

And seriously you don't have to watch movies and read anti-bush posts to not like the guy the only thing you gotta do is look at the guy, he has a funny face and when he laughs looks hillarious, poor bastard hahaha.. Is that the kind of clown you people like for president, john kerry seems like a cry baby but at least doesn't look like a hillarious clown, and a change is NEEDED NOW. I encourage you to start thinking if you still want the clown , and im only talking to the 50% of americans that supposedly support him, because half of the people in this country didn't vote for him in the first place, So to the other half that wants a change WE WON"T LOOSE THIS TIME, we won't take it anymore, LETS KICK THE CLOWN OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE.

Originally posted by bartholomeoAnd seriously you don't have to watch movies and read anti-bush posts to not like the guy the only thing you gotta do is look at the guy, he has a funny face and when he laughs looks hillarious, poor bastard hahaha..

This is extremely important when determining who to vote for *sarcastic voice*
Are you serious? So all you need to do is look at his face and how funny he looks and then you will know he is not fit to lead this country for anohter 4 years. Oh well, so much for denying ignorance, huh? Too funny

Edit: spelling

[edit on 6-27-2004 by nyarlathotep]

Im sure most of you are already tired of seeing the clown face, but for those of you who still like it I got some words from John Titor, " Many of you don't realize it but this country would be better off if half of you were dead"
You can laugh now.



[edit on 27-6-2004 by bartholomeo]

For gods' sake, people.

How many times do I have to remind everyone to STAY ON TOPIC??

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
He is keeping it real, at least someone is. I have gained alot of respect for tis man. He is not scared of the people in power. More power to him.

Just got home from seeing the movie, Michael did a wonderful job at getting to the truth and laying the facts out for all to see. Anyone that "REALLY" pays attention to everything thats been going on since 2000, and can recall many things will see the truth in michael moore's movie. The movie is nothing but Pure Factual Truths and is laid-out to where any one can see for theirselves, that Bush & Co only care about their selves and don't give a dxmn about anyone else.
I already knew pretty much of everything that this movie was showing before I seen it, I wanted my b-friend and son to see it, so they would finally understand what I have been trying to tell them about Resident Bush and Co. But I did get a surprise while watching it , the surprise was hearing the "Shock and Discuss" from others viewing the movie when it showed what was happening in Iraq to the Iraqi people, children and yes some of our troops that died and when the senator's were asked to have their children sign-up and go to Iraq to lay their lives on the line as our family-members have and are doing, that their children should be there on the front-line fighting,.... the way those senator re-acted to Michael's request that the senator's should send their children to Iraq to fight, their behavior was nothing less than shameful and un-american, people watching the movie were shocked-into-reality and discussed by our senators.
This is a very VERY good movie and something everyone in the USA should see so they can see the light (truth).

Bush lied and thousands died

Sooooo, Freemason...? Mr. All Knowing, Mr. Mouth....when are you planning on enlightening us on all of these "facts" you deem to rip apart one by one? I think many of us are waiting to see if you fall flat on your face or are actually able to disprove any of this with actual information and not just "Thats not ture, moron"

I think we both know you have met a challenge that your mouth can't contend with, but I'd love to see you try....

www.michaelmoore.com...

"After the airspace reopened, six chartered flights with 142 people, mostly Saudi Arabian nationals, departed from the United States between September 14 and 24. One flight, the so-called Bin Ladin flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin."

We really do not know why it was so necessary for the White House to allow the quick exodus of these Saudi and bin Ladens out of the country, and "the White House still refuses to document fully how the flights were arranged," according to a June 20, 2004, article by Phil Shenon in the New York Times

Most Saudis who left were not interviewed at all by the FBI. In fact, of the 142 Saudis on these flights, only 30 were interviewed.

"Two days after the Sept. 11 attacks, with most of the nation's air traffic still grounded, a small jet landed at Tampa International Airport, picked up three young Saudi men and left. The men, one of them thought to be a member of the Saudi royal family, were accompanied by a former FBI agent and a former Tampa police officer on the flight to Lexington, Ky. The Saudis then took another flight out of the country."

www.michaelmoore.com...

"September 11th guaranteed that United Defense was going to have a very good year. Just 6 weeks after 9-11 Carlyle filed to take United Defense public and in December made a one day profit of $237 million dollars."

'Carlyle's aggressive approach ...is one reason why the Crusader lived this long,' said Lawrence J. Korb, an assistant secretary in the Reagan Pentagon and now director of studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. Even if Rumsfeld's decision stands, Korb said, United still will have received $ 2 billion from the Crusader program and will receive substantially more to close it down

www.michaelmoore.com...

Narration: Bush�s good friend James Bath was hired by the bin Laden family to manage their money in Texas and invest in businesses. And James Bath himself, in turn, invested in George W. Bush.

In 1976, Bath became the Texas money manager for the Bin Laden family. Notarized Trust Agreement, Harris County, Texas, signed by Salem M. Binladen, July 8, 1976, Bath�s business relationship with Salem bin Laden, and other wealthy Saudi businessmen, has been well documented.

The bin Laden family first invested in Carlyle in 1994. Representing Carlyle�s Asia Board, George H.W. Bush visited the bin laden family's headquarters in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Kurt Eichenwald, Bin Laden Family Liquidates Holdings With Carlyle Group, The New York Times, October 26, 2001.

On the morning of September 11, 2001 , �in the plush setting of the Ritz-Carlton hotel in Washington, DC, the Carlyle Group was holding its annual international investor conference. Frank Carlucci, James Baker III, David Rubenstein, William Conway, and Dan D�Aniellow were together, along with a host of former world leaders, former defense experts, wealthy Arabs from the Middle East, and major international investors as the terror played out on television. There with them, looking after the investments of his family was Shafiq bin Laden, Osama bin Laden�s estranged half-brother.

www.michaelmoore.com...

In the interview Mr. Moore asks if the Congressman will pass out recruitment brochures to other members of Congress to try to get their kids to enlist in the army and go to Iraq. Congressman agrees to do this, saying, ?d be happy to. Especially those who voted for the war.

I still haven't seen the movie, but these do seem as they would raise interesting questions to those who have not been exposed already. But I guess bias and polarization is all the rage these days even with Michael Moore aparently.

Originally posted by torque
"Anyone who says "well I dont like him but I will see it" well your a phony. Either A. Deep down you like him and dont want to admit it, or B. Your to much of a fool to stop his behavior. "

Wrong.

I'll see it because it looks entertaining and I like entertaining movies. I don't have to like the writer, director or anyone else involved with it if I am interested in it. It doesn't make me a phony. It makes me someone who won't be told what to see or not see as I will make my own mind up. It also makes me someone who won't discuss what I have no knowledge of. I can't say anything for OR against something I haven't even seen. One of the perks of living in this country is that one can satisfy their curiosity by reading or watching virtually anything they want, be it a movie, book or discussion thread. By the same token, they can also refuse to contribute to anything they are vehemently against, be it a movie, book or discussion thread.

Very well put torque, I couldn't had said it better myself.

Mr. Moore is a contradiction both in his slovenly largesse and his intellectual dishonesty.

The authorization to fly Bin Laden's family from Boston was authorized by
Mr. Richard Clarke ! Remember Mr. Clarke? He was buried in the National Security department and had a hissy fit when Condoleeza Rice lost confidence in his goofy opinions. Condoleeza Rice blew up his entire testimony and his book at senate hearings this past spring. Primarily Mr. Clarke had moronic and far fetched fabrications more than substantive facts.

Mr. Moore is, for want of more politically nice word, a liar. My only defense to prevent myself from being succesfully sued by Mr. Moore for libel is the truth. I know the truth and it's factual and documented. His film cannot stand as a historical documentary anymore than Brer Rabbit and The Carrot Patch.


By all means see the film but objectify its presentation. Check Moore's statements. Don't just tape them into your mind. Check them out. A simple nexus search on the net and Wall street Journal verification neutralizes Mr. Moore.

This a film designed to relieve George Bush of the presidency by presenting Bush as a moron. That's all the democrats can do when they can't argue intellectually. They discredit people. It's a neat communist tactic and they have it down beautifully. Moore will duck under the new election laws and turn over a portion of his profits to the DNC which is illegal. Ever heard of Harvey Weinstein? He's the film distributor/promoter and a huge contributor to the DNC. Ask why this is all happening in an election year folks and you come to an obvious conclusion.

The DNC is also throwing books and authors like Richard Clark, Bob Woodward, Carl Bernstein et al at George Bush to also get rid of him in a co-ordinated attack.

The most despicable travesty is the worlds worst swimmer; Mr. Teddy Kennedy, Democrat/Socialist/Commie Pinko; via the democrat senate investigation of prisoners in Iraq. They cut off our citizens and soldiers heads, then we investigate why we didn't give the terrorist prisoners milk and cookies at bed time? Huh? These aren't choir boys in those prisons. But Teddy has got to get George Bush out of office. So does Terry McAuliffe of the DNC. These people are desperate. You have to sense this if you don't see the evidence in front of you.

Seathing hatred for Geroge Bush has blinded the once respected democratic party into a group of cretin terrorists on the home front. They are the"enemy within" the forefathers had warned. These senators took oaths and rarely have they upheld what they swore to uphold.

Do they have a plan? No. Do they know of a better way to deal with terrorists ? Sure, Call Kofe Anon and the UN lollipops who want nothing better than to get back into Iraq and restart the corruption. The UN couldn't defend an ice cream cone on a hot day. More on the UN at another time.

Mr. Moore is a fabrication himself having declared that "All white men are stupid" Excuse me? Mr. Moore is seemingly unconcerned with his loath appearance and has all the trappings of a self loathing liberal speaking generously of his contempt for this country and himself.

Go and feel free to make Mr. Moore wealthy at $8.00 a pop for a film that fails so morally and intellectually one would have to have the IQ of a shoe size to believe its content.

If this country can elect a piece of human debris like Clinton it can also tout Michael Moore as some grand poobah of historical effluvium and the masses will suck it down like so much cold lemonade on a hot summer evening. Think: Question? Motive? Why? Who Benefits? If Bush allowed Bin Laden to escape would the democrats find that treasonous enough to have yet another inquiry before now? Of course they would !!

Why is Ms. Jamie Gareleqe, Democrat, on the 9/11 invesitgation committe when she herself was appointed by Clinton to the justice department as Deputy Attorney General and forbade the FBI and CIA to talk with each other? Would that have possibly prevented 9/11? Can you reason why she did this? Do you see a pattern evolving. Are you connecting the dots?? Ask me dear reader and I shall tell you why she placed a wall between CIA and FBI.

I truly fear for this country that I love dearly.


"We are indeed fortunate that people are so stupid" Adolph Hitler

Caveat Emptor

Originally posted by AGENT 007
It makes me sick about this movie not that I think its bad but Moore is getting all this credit for this 911 movie and ALEX JONES movie THE ROAD TO TYRANNY at infowars.com has been out for almost 2 yrs tells more of the story than just Bush's part so if you like the Fahrenheit 911 see The Road TO Tyranny

I went to the "infowars.com site and seen Alex Jones movie ( 40 minute) , Alex did a great job putting facts together and showing them, just as Michael Moore had done with this movie "9/11 Fahrenheit, and just so everyone knows, I do not nor have I ever seen or heard of either one of these men until www.infowars.com site was posted in a different thread and until I seen Michael Moore's movie tonight. But I will say this, anyone that see 9/11 Fahrenheit and Road To Tyranny , will definately view Bush & CO, in a totally different way that will Boot Bush's Xutt to the curb, this election, and more power to the people that do !!!!

That's a funny picture kramtronix.

Although I personally find fiction dull.

True Reality is always so much more exciting and interesting IMO.



See what I mean!!

Originally posted by dynamoalf
Mr. Moore is a contradiction both in his slovenly largesse and his intellectual dishonesty.

The authorization to fly Bin Laden's family from Boston was authorized by
Mr. Richard Clarke ! Remember Mr. Clarke? He was buried in the National Security department and had a hissy fit when Condoleeza Rice lost confidence in his goofy opinions. Condoleeza Rice blew up his entire testimony and his book at senate hearings this past spring. Primarily Mr. Clarke had moronic and far fetched fabrications more than substantive facts.

Mr. Moore is, for want of more politically nice word, a liar. My only defense to prevent myself from being succesfully sued by Mr. Moore for libel is the truth. I know the truth and it's factual and documented. His film cannot stand as a historical documentary anymore than Brer Rabbit and The Carrot Patch.


By all means see the film but objectify its presentation. Check Moore's statements. Don't just tape them into your mind. Check them out. A simple nexus search on the net and Wall street Journal verification neutralizes Mr. Moore.

This a film designed to relieve George Bush of the presidency by presenting Bush as a moron. That's all the democrats can do when they can't argue intellectually. They discredit people. It's a neat communist tactic and they have it down beautifully. Moore will duck under the new election laws and turn over a portion of his profits to the DNC which is illegal. Ever heard of Harvey Weinstein? He's the film distributor/promoter and a huge contributor to the DNC. Ask why this is all happening in an election year folks and you come to an obvious conclusion.

The DNC is also throwing books and authors like Richard Clark, Bob Woodward, Carl Bernstein et al at George Bush to also get rid of him in a co-ordinated attack.

The most despicable travesty is the worlds worst swimmer; Mr. Teddy Kennedy, Democrat/Socialist/Commie Pinko; via the democrat senate investigation of prisoners in Iraq. They cut off our citizens and soldiers heads, then we investigate why we didn't give the terrorist prisoners milk and cookies at bed time? Huh? These aren't choir boys in those prisons. But Teddy has got to get George Bush out of office. So does Terry McAuliffe of the DNC. These people are desperate. You have to sense this if you don't see the evidence in front of you.

Seathing hatred for Geroge Bush has blinded the once respected democratic party into a group of cretin terrorists on the home front. They are the"enemy within" the forefathers had warned. These senators took oaths and rarely have they upheld what they swore to uphold.

Do they have a plan? No. Do they know of a better way to deal with terrorists ? Sure, Call Kofe Anon and the UN lollipops who want nothing better than to get back into Iraq and restart the corruption. The UN couldn't defend an ice cream cone on a hot day. More on the UN at another time.

Mr. Moore is a fabrication himself having declared that "All white men are stupid" Excuse me? Mr. Moore is seemingly unconcerned with his loath appearance and has all the trappings of a self loathing liberal speaking generously of his contempt for this country and himself.

Go and feel free to make Mr. Moore wealthy at $8.00 a pop for a film that fails so morally and intellectually one would have to have the IQ of a shoe size to believe its content.

If this country can elect a piece of human debris like Clinton it can also tout Michael Moore as some grand poobah of historical effluvium and the masses will suck it down like so much cold lemonade on a hot summer evening. Think: Question? Motive? Why? Who Benefits? If Bush allowed Bin Laden to escape would the democrats find that treasonous enough to have yet another inquiry before now? Of course they would !!

Why is Ms. Jamie Gareleqe, Democrat, on the 9/11 invesitgation committe when she herself was appointed by Clinton to the justice department as Deputy Attorney General and forbade the FBI and CIA to talk with each other? Would that have possibly prevented 9/11? Can you reason why she did this? Do you see a pattern evolving. Are you connecting the dots?? Ask me dear reader and I shall tell you why she placed a wall between CIA and FBI.

I truly fear for this country that I love dearly.


"We are indeed fortunate that people are so stupid" Adolph Hitler

Caveat Emptor

dynamoalf
Bush and his administration did it to their selves, all their lying, sneaking and hiding the truth from the senate, Gov't, and investigators,and from the families of the 9/11 victims. Not willing to swear under oath before answering questions and the list goes on and on. If they are suposively telling the truth and have nothing to hide,...... then why all the secrecy, why all the stalling and blocking, since 9/11 ? Because they are LYING to the people of the USA !!!!!!!! My boyfriend was (thats the key word-was) like you when it came to Bush, but when I started telling him things that I beleived was going to happen/not happen and when all the war over the WMD's supposivly in Iraq as the reason Bush gave for attacking Iraq was NEVER found, then, THEN my boyfriend seen that I was right and Bush was a liar and butcher of human-lives for the revenge on Sadam and the oil for his buddies. Bush has lost another vote and will loose more if I have anything to say or do to get it done. Bush is a war-president, just as hitler was, and why not compare him to hitler,.... after all prescott bush,george walker and others helped fiance hitler's agenda, and soiled their hands in the blood of thousands of jews and blacks that were murdered by hitler's army and please don't try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I was introduced to an old german that was part of hitler's army ( I was introduced to the german in 1996-1997), he talked about the furnaces and killings, he spoke of how people were paid $5.00 in german monies for every black person that was caught then killed and $2.00 for every jew or anyone that helped a jew when caught.

Bush did not read the briefs that were given to him about BinLadan's plans to attack the usa before 9/11 , nope it was more important to go to TX to his ranch , instead.

I hope and pray that Bush & Co., all burn in the firely depths of eternal hell for their crimes against the people of the USA, our troops and all innocent lives and Iraqi innocent-peoples deaths.

9/11 fahrenheit and road to terrancy are very good movies and true , these two men brought the truth to the light for all to see, but if people prefer to stay dumb and blinded by Bush, his administration and everyone else thats part of the conspiracy, then thats on them,...... I prefer the LIGHT!!!

[edit on 27-6-2004 by nanna_of_6]

If this country can elect a piece of human debris like Clinton it can also tout Michael Moore as some grand poobah of historical effluvium and the masses will suck it down like so much cold lemonade on a hot summer evening. Think: Question? Motive? Why? Who Benefits? If Bush allowed Bin Laden to escape would the democrats find that treasonous enough to have yet another inquiry before now? Of course they would !!

Dude, its exactly that kind of thinking made Mr. Moore's movie possible. Democrats this, democrats that. Polarizing the people allows for polarizing movies as Moore's to such an extent. Republicans will just bash it, while democrats will all go and see it. Someone who wants a balanced look at things will be left out of the loop. You portrayal of democrats as communists makes me believe you are republican btw.

This haven't even become about democrats and republicans. There is much belief that the two parties are closer than it seems, as if there was a mysterious, constant influence behind the government. And there is, there is much the US has to adhere to within the international community, namely the financial sectors. Bush isn't the power for the government, but rather lobbyists and other international restrictions/"recommendations" influence the actions of Congress and others. We all saw how Congress could be manipulated with the premise that "STOCKPILES" of WMDs existed in Iraq, ready for the taking. But also the evidence you presented in the articles made me think that there is even much more cooperation between the Democrats and Republicans for the mysterious influence behind the scenes. The way these events flow and coordinate themselves between the repubs and demos is like a movie, but yet they fit together so well, I have a hard time ignoring the many coincedences. To quote the movie Signs,"There are two types of people in this world 1. People who believe that things are coincedences and that they are all on their own and 2.People who believe things are signs and that they will always be protected by a higher power." Another point about this movie of polarization...

This polarization will also allow for mass voter turnout, I bet we set some kind of record in 2004!!! It will have some influence of the policies made, but probably very little. I really don't know any of congressman nor either president at all. All I know is what they are saying at present, there's so much more than speach you can tell about a person though.

To sum up, the act of a polarization can bring about good consequences and maybe some bad ones for the people, mostly good though. But at the same time, we fail to realize that these people are closer than we think, it seems to many like a movie without a script. But a scipt may exist...

To get back on topic, I haven't seen the movie yet, so I can't comment on the film's presentation....

Also, its interesting that Chalabai was immediately canned after a while and blamed with the false intelligence of "STOCKPILES." Possibly Chalabai was the fall guy for after the weapons weren't found, which the administration knew IMO. This key piece of info probably boosted votes in favor in Congress. For all those who weren't in the loop for what was going on.

[edit on 27-6-2004 by Jamuhn]

Went and saw it today. I already new just about everything that was in the film, having kept track the past 3 years. The film was well done and said on the big screen what people needed to hear. Never seen an audience react to a film like this. Standing ovations and all.

Go ahead and try to say that this movie is filled with lies, you're lying to yourself. Moore hardly needed to narrate, Bush and his criminal gang have done enough to implicate themselves. And you Bush supporters can rant and rave all you want, the facts speak for themselves.

For you poor Bush supporters. You support this administration because you know no better and/or don't want to admit you're wrong. Plain and simple. There is nothing good that can be brought up by this administration, and if you have been paying attention to something other than Fox News for the past few years, you would know that.

I hope things continue to get worse...

here, here.

It's really sad how Bush supporters band together while blindly defending such garbage. It's like watching an army of mindless robots acting as programmed.

It really is saddening in a way to see so many now in denial.

I'm anxious to see if Moores efforts prove the victor in obtaining converts from the dark to the light..

Originally posted by ATSluvDroid
here, here.

It's really sad how Bush supporters band together while blindly defending such garbage. It's like watching an army of mindless robots acting as programmed.

It really is saddening in a way to see so many now in denial.

I'm anxious to see if Moore's efforts prove the victor in obtaining converts from the dark to the light..

I don't predict Moore's movie will 'convert' anyone from one side ot the other. Here's why:

1.) Anyone paying attention will already be aware of what the movie is showing. So if they aren't against such actions, yet already know of them, then that means they are also gaining from such activities.

2.) Anyone not paying attention, but currently support the current Admin., won't want to believe it or will just deny it. Otherwise to them it would mean having to take the side they normally oppose.

3.) Anyone who is against the current Admin. will most likely make any possible 'converts' wade through a fog of 'I told you so's' and so forth making it that much more difficult for them. Saving Face, Pride and/or Shame are more than powerful enough reasons to just continue against ones better judgment when faced with the alternative of having to live through your 'Usual Opponents' gloating.

IMO, it will probably result in making the dividing line between the Ideologies more defined and push the more 'Undecided' people out there to choose one side or the other.