I have come to embrace Socialism!

Originally posted by Skyfloating
To learn more about Socialism I also recommend you Wikipedia

Stalin
Lenin
Mao
Pol Pot
Castro
Mugabe
Chavez

the socialist "heroes" of the last 100 years.

This single post is all one needs to know concerning socialism.

It's well worth quoting in this thread again.

Well said.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


1st : I'm Canadian, my life expectancy is higher than yours. Life Expectancy
2nd: Ukraine now has the same system the US has now... Why do you think it's so bad?

Magnum

I think the biggest problem is that the appeal to profit as a motivator is fundamentally misguided. Profit implies NO ethical considerations on its own. You can make profit from helping people and you can make profit from hurting people.

This isn't to imply that profit itself is evil, but that it is unfit to be the primary motivating factor for a society because it doesn't REJECT evil. A society should be based on a just and equitable set of ethics which take into consideration both the common good and individual freedom.

We ought to do the things we do because they are enjoyable and ethically sound, not simply because it's possible to make a profit.

In short: Under a profit driven system we do a lot of things we ought not and don't do a lot that we ought.

Originally posted by syr_ark
I think the biggest problem is that the appeal to profit as a motivator is fundamentally misguided. Profit implies NO ethical considerations on its own. You can make profit from helping people and you can make profit from hurting people.

The prime motivator of Capitalism is to produce, create, make happen, build. Socialists and Tribalists are uncomfortable with that because it could mean that someone owns more than them. They then feel inferiour and envious and try to solve the problem by attacking the person who owns more than them. If they were smarter, they could be benefiting from them and their knowledge.

reply to post by Magnum007


First you're the one that has been talking about the Ukraine. Also some Canadians come to America for life saving health care because they are put on a waiting list in Canada.

America is 78.4 life expectancy with over 300 million people Canada has an 81 years of age life expectancy with 33 million people.

So there's zero reason for America to go socialist. If Canada had to service 270 million more people they would be in serious trouble.

They already have trouble with 33 million people:

“ Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).”

“Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared to less than 90 percent of Canadians.”

“More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent).”

“Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).”

www.jsonline.com...

It's different when the Federal Government has waiting lists for 30 million people vs. over 300 million.

Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

Excuse me, personal attacks are a sign of despair, and lack of arguments.

Not only am I a police officer, I also own a very fruitful business in Ukraine and Canada... In the last 10 years, I've been to over 30 countries, for tourism and work... Don't tell me to travel.

I know Ukraine as it is now, and my wife knows it as it was in the USSR, and what it is now. Life was MUCH easier before than now, and everything worked well, not perfectly, but well and much better than the US currently.

I hope you can give me arguments to the contrary instead of attempting to make me angry and making yourself look dumb. Being a moderator, you should know better...

Magnum

I spent 5-6 years in the former USSR and Eastern Europe, and almost 100% of the people I talked to said that socially, educationally and economically, life was better for the ordinary people under socialism than it was under capitalism.

The thing they didn't like about Communism was all the controls on reading, opinion, travel and so on--not enough personal liberty. If it had been up to me in 1989-91 I would have just kept the socialist economy in place and put in democratic governments. I wouldn't have let capitalism get established there again because its a bad deal for the common people.

But I still regard myself as a democratic socialist not a Communist.

The idea that Canada or Northern Europe are "socialist" countries is often repeated and always wrong. Canada and Europe are actually centrist...which makes them the healthy countries that they are.

Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by thrustbucket

 

I'm a good cop! I don't smoke "the good stuff"!!

On a serious note, do you understand the hypocrisy that saying that socialism is wrong and doesn't work when right now, as we speak, the US capitalistic system is failing Americans, making them poor and homeless?

Magnum

Your statement is making a broad assumption that the system is failing or doing poorly BECAUSE of capitalism. That couldn't be further from the truth. The system is failing for several other reasons, and the TYPE of government we have has nothing to do with it.

If anything, its the far lefts attempts at "equalizing" everything with their communist agenda that's having the effect of thermonuclear bombs going off in the economy.

Give me Liberty or give me Food Stamps over 41.2 million Americans are on food stamps 10,000,000 more recipients are receiving food stamps since obama took office. Welcome to your socialist agenda. ^Y^

Originally posted by amari
Give me Liberty or give me Food Stamps over 41.2 million Americans are on food stamps 10,000,000 more recipients are receiving food stamps since obama took office. Welcome to your socialist agenda. ^Y^

Yep. We are becoming a socialist country, and stuff like that is proof.

Originally posted by witness63
I spent 5-6 years in the former USSR and Eastern Europe, and almost 100% of the people I talked to said that socially, educationally and economically, life was better for the ordinary people under socialism than it was under capitalism.

Funny...Ive travelled the same areas and heard just the opposite. Certainly you cant mean Estonia, Latvia, Poland and the Czech Republic....

And the reason Russia is struggling economically is not because of Capitalism but because 100 years of socialist propaganda taught them they dont have to do anything but hold out their hand to the Government for money.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by witness63
I spent 5-6 years in the former USSR and Eastern Europe, and almost 100% of the people I talked to said that socially, educationally and economically, life was better for the ordinary people under socialism than it was under capitalism.

Funny...Ive travelled the same areas and heard just the opposite. Certainly you cant mean Estonia, Latvia, Poland and the Czech Republic....

And the reason Russia is struggling economically is not because of Capitalism but because 100 years of socialist propaganda taught them they dont have to do anything but hold out their hand to the Government for money.

That's absolutely correct. My inlaws are from one of those countries you mentioned. It's very interesting to go over there and observe and talk to people.

You have a lot of people that are pissed that they can no longer just kind of sit around and do nothing and get free food and health care, but you also have a lot of (mostly younger) people that are excelling a great deal and letting their motivation and hard work take them places their parents could never dream of.

Originally posted by Tryptych
Well, I have to admit I didn't bother to read the thread..

Americans are (you must realize this) one of the ONLY people who have been scared to death with "evil commies". Why? Because it stands in the way of capitalism. And greed. I think that the backbone and the very basic idea of socialism is equality.

I actually think that these political systems are all silly. Except maybe democracy.

IMHO "Jesus was a hippie" or "Jesus was a socialist" is beyond idiocy. Sorry.

In America, a 19th Century capitalist once said "We can hire half of the population of this country to shoot the other half if we have to". That really says it all about capitalism.

reply to post by thrustbucket


Yes, young folks in Eastern Europe are among the most productive and creative Ive ever seen. They`re going to overtake the West someday if they keep up that pace.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by witness63
I spent 5-6 years in the former USSR and Eastern Europe, and almost 100% of the people I talked to said that socially, educationally and economically, life was better for the ordinary people under socialism than it was under capitalism.

Funny...Ive travelled the same areas and heard just the opposite. Certainly you cant mean Estonia, Latvia, Poland and the Czech Republic....

And the reason Russia is struggling economically is not because of Capitalism but because 100 years of socialist propaganda taught them they dont have to do anything but hold out their hand to the Government for money.

I did live in Poland and the Czech Republic and that's exactly what I heard from almost everyone: socialism was a better deal for the common people than capitalism.

Originally posted by witness63
I did live in Poland and the Czech Republic and that's exactly what I heard from almost everyone: socialism was a better deal for the common people than capitalism.

I doubt it. Most of what I learned about Socialism and am sharing here, I learned from Eastern Europeans who are very happy to be free from Soviet Tyranny at last.

reply to post by amari


Exactly,

Obama and many Democrats want people on Food Stamps. This way they can control people's consumption which they see as evil. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't start limiting the calories you can buy on Food Stamps. This will be done for the "common good."

See they don't trust people to live their own lives so they feel the Government has to do these things through Redistribution of Wealth.

This is why I support the Tea Party. People have to rise up and say something because the Progessive ideology is you're too stupid to do the right thing for yourself and your children so you need a massive Government to Redistribute others wealth and do it for you.

We drive the wrong cars, eat the wrong foods, use too much health care and all of these things and more need to be controlled and regulated by the State. This is not America.

Originally posted by thrustbucket

Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by thrustbucket

 

I'm a good cop! I don't smoke "the good stuff"!!

On a serious note, do you understand the hypocrisy that saying that socialism is wrong and doesn't work when right now, as we speak, the US capitalistic system is failing Americans, making them poor and homeless?

Magnum

Your statement is making a broad assumption that the system is failing or doing poorly BECAUSE of capitalism. That couldn't be further from the truth. The system is failing for several other reasons, and the TYPE of government we have has nothing to do with it.

If anything, its the far lefts attempts at "equalizing" everything with their communist agenda that's having the effect of thermonuclear bombs going off in the economy.

As I see it, we had about 30 years of Reaganism and free maket capitalism in this country in which big business ran everything and all the wealth went to the top 10-20%. That system crashed in a big depression as it always does and all the capitalists ran to the government begging for a bailout.

If people can't see that capitalism is a total failure after all this then they never will.

Originally posted by endtimer
reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet

 

You say you are a person just like everyone else? In what sense? Do you really
think that everyone else embraces this sick stuff? Socialism has never worked
in any country on this planet in any time of history. Don't compare yourself to
everyone else.

And to compare Jesus to Socialism is really, really sick.

I think Canada needs believers like yourself. Get packing !!

So basically you have absolutely no idea what Socialism is, then?

"sick"? eh? How ridiculous! If anything at all, it is the complete opposite to being "sick" and about the most humane political science.

It's funny how Americans have been told by a right wing media that Socialism is evil in some way so they have lapped it up without even considering it or doing any research whatsoever.

"sick"! Ha! Pathetic!

Maybe you are confusing yourself with fascistic, last century National Socialism.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The prime motivator of Capitalism is to produce, create, make happen, build. Socialists and Tribalists are uncomfortable with that because it could mean that someone owns more than them. They then feel inferiour and envious and try to solve the problem by attacking the person who owns more than them. If they were smarter, they could be benefiting from them and their knowledge.

What good is production without ethics or limits? Cancer is primarily concerned with production, too.

I don't disagree with creating and building. I disagree with runaway consumerism, environmental degredation, concentration of wealth to the detriment of society, benefiting from harming others, etc.

What makes you think that simply trying to produce as much of something as efficiently as possible would create an ideal world?

I think Capitalists like to paint people as merely envious because it makes them feel good, but that's just not true. Many people look at consumption driven Capitalist systems and they see something that is unjust, unsustainable, and just ethically incomplete.

Capitalism tends to dehumanize people by treating them as commodities to be exploited for profit. Extreme forms of Socialism also tend to dehumanize people through other means, to be fair, but the end result is the same. Slavery. Either to corporations, or the political elite, or to some other group. We ought to have a system that values all individuals and nurtures them instead of dividing the world into those who have the ability exploit others and those who exist to be exploited.

Compassion and understanding are the keys to a better world, not profit and control.