I have come to embrace Socialism!

Originally posted by Magnum007
Why would anyone need a loan when everything would already be taken care of...

If it "would" be taken care of. But its not. Things dont take care of themselves. Socialism teaches people they dont have to take care of anything because the collective will. But the collective wont. If everyone is responsible, nobody is. This has been proven time and time again throughout the last 100 years.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Western propaganda has "proven" it for the last 100 years... The system was working, and still is in some countries but people are told it's not and are told it's wrong when it's not...

Magnum

Originally posted by Magnum007
Western propaganda has proven it for the last 100 years... The system was working, and still is in some countries but people are told it's not and are told it's wrong when it's not...

Do some travelling, will ya?

Originally posted by dizzylizzy

Originally posted by endtimer
reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet

 

You say you are a person just like everyone else? In what sense? Do you really
think that everyone else embraces this sick stuff? Socialism has never worked
in any country on this planet in any time of history. Don't compare yourself to
everyone else.

And to compare Jesus to Socialism is really, really sick.



I think Canada needs believers like yourself. Get packing !!

Capatilism has proved to be superior to Socialism?

What was Jesus if not a Socialist, he told us to share all we have with those less well off.

Jesus actually stated to one to sell everything he owned!! How many capitalists would do that?

Originally posted by aero56


Jesus actually stated to one to sell everything he owned!! How many capitalists would do that?

Yup, Capitalists would sell it, Socialists give it away for free and be left with nothing.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Can you show me where a socialist has ever proposed how value should be created? The capitalist creates the wealth of nations. Creates value. The socialist wants to disempower the only person who creates value for society.

I'm not really trying to defend Socialism as a system of government, but I would say that in the ideal form which I think well-meaning people tend to use the term socialism, it could be said that value is inherent in the people and their work. It doesn't need to be created, rather it must be fairly utilized for the benefit of all.

Capitalism is flawed, in essence, because it takes this inherent value and feeds it into a system of finance and investment which tends to have the benefit of high productivity and profit for the capital holders at the cost of dehumanizing and disenfranchising the working class.

Thus, just as Socialism (as a system of government) is basically a system to redistribute wealth to the people, Capitalism is basically a system to redistribute wealth to the corporate elite and their cronys.

At least, that's my view. But I don't claim to be a Socialist OR a Capitalist. Idealogically I can find some merit in Socialism and practically none in Capitalism, but ultimately I believe in personal freedom. I just wish the world weren't largely populated by short sighted egoists who can't see the forest for the trees. What we need is compassion and understanding, not control or money.

A better world can only be built by better people. So lets all try to be better people.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
The financial crisis has highlighted much that is wrong with capitalism

The financial crisis has highlighted what happens when even the Republicans stray away from Capitalism in favour of raising taxes, etc.

So what should your tax dollars be used for? just out of interest, or do you believe you shouldn't have to pay tax at all?

reply to post by Skyfloating


Excuse me, personal attacks are a sign of despair, and lack of arguments.

Not only am I a police officer, I also own a very fruitful business in Ukraine and Canada... In the last 10 years, I've been to over 30 countries, for tourism and work... Don't tell me to travel.

I know Ukraine as it is now, and my wife knows it as it was in the USSR, and what it is now. Life was MUCH easier before than now, and everything worked well, not perfectly, but well and much better than the US currently.

I hope you can give me arguments to the contrary instead of attempting to make me angry and making yourself look dumb. Being a moderator, you should know better...

Magnum

reply to post by Magnum007


This is funny.

This is why people in Socialist countries risk their lives to get to America, because Socialism is so great. This is why Russian women are doing everything they can to get to America and they even marry dirty old men to get here.

A friend of mine met a girl from Russia and he flew her here. I asked her how she liked Russia nd she kept going for 30 minutes straight talking about how she hates Russia and she wants to live in America. I guess this is because Russia is so great.

This is why Boxers and others risk their lives to come from Cuba.

One Boxer talked about how he had a curfew, they gave him an old beat up car and he wasn't allowed to buy more because he couldn't afford it. He had to Box for the State not for himself. This is why he risked his life to get to America.

Socialism doesn't work because men and women are flawed. They will never create a Utopia when Billions and Trillions of Dollars are in front of them.

You have to be crazy to trust these people over your own conscious.

The reason that America has remained Free is because the Government is restrained. The crooked Politicians have been trying to break down this restraint and God help us all if they ever do break down these restrains and impose socialism. We will be the ones trying to risk our lives to leave this country.

If people love Socialism so much they should move to a socialist country. Stop trying to impose these sick and silly views onto America. The Founders of this country realized the flaws of men and we don't need an all powerful Government controlling our lives.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

So what should your tax dollars be used for? just out of interest, or do you believe you shouldn't have to pay tax at all?

Tax is a collectivist idea.

Voluntary and localized tax for investment into infrastructure and education is acceptable.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Are socialists motivated by love of the poor or hate of the rich?

Considering that they use 90% of their literature is used for bashing the succesful and rich, I´d have to say that Socialism is founded on hatred and feelings of inadequacy, alienation and inferiority.

Whatever is founded on hatred breeds Destruction. Thats why the History of Socialism in the last 100 years has been as bloody as it has.

edit on 9-10-2010 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)

Ever hear of righteous indignation? Justifiable anger? You can be angry without sinning. You can show displeasure justly, at a wrong, without sinning. Socialism is not founded on hatred, feelings of inadequacy, alienation or inferiority. Socialism exposes the unfairness and wrongfulness of capitalism.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


The issue of women coming here for dirty men is simple: today Russia and Ukraine are falling due to the capitalistic trend. People are getting poorer and poorer as we speak...

The idea that people want to leave because they don't get what they want is very simple. Western materialism, and consumerism has invaded and now, because people are always wanting what someone else has, people compare themselves to the "American dream" and feel inadequate whereas these people don't realize that they will lose so much (free healthcare, free schooling, free place to live etc...)

I much rather have everything I need and do any job I want, and not have to worry about food and supplies, than have 3 mortgages, a foreclosure on the horrizon, kids need braces, and worry about my kids going to college and university...

Still wondering why I'm more likely to live longer than the average American?

reply to post by aero56


Check the literature. You`d expect it to preach love of the poor. But there is not much concern for the poor. There is a lot of bashing of the following:

* Succesful People
* Achievers
* Rich People
* Authority
* Hierarchy
* Business Owners

Book after Book after Book vilifying people whos only aim is to make the world a better place...by providing goods, foods, medicine, transport, logistics, services.

After all I, the Capitalist, have contributed to my Community, you call me "evil".

Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by Matrix Rising

 

Still wondering why I'm more likely to live longer than the average American?

No. But I am wondering what you have been smoking and if it's legal where you live.

reply to post by Skyfloating


What about law enforcement, leave that to the free market, your prison service is already in private hands which may help explain why America has the highest prison population in the Western world. Profiteering from locking up people. Sweet.

Why dont you just hand the education system over to the private sector? maybe get in some big corporate to take over the education of your nations children, a bright future awaits Im sure.

Originally posted by Magnum007.
I know Ukraine as it is now, and my wife knows it as it was in the USSR, and what it is now. Life was MUCH easier before than now, and everything worked well, not perfectly, but well and much better than the US currently.
Magnum

In Ukraine life was easier thanks to an economic bubble created by gigantic federal (Russian) administration which was bound to fall dramatically, hyperinflation and subsequent collapse were bound to happen. Ukrainians were very lucky to break up with Russia without bloodshed, unlike Yugoslavia. The Soviets did exactly the same thing US does, the difference is US has global dominance while Russia did not cover that much economy. It's a simple ponzi scheme on grander scale. This has little to do with capitalism or socialism though, both can be deformed to suit needs of the elite. IMO California and Texas will be first to break up with US when SHTF and it won't be without at least some bloodshed.

reply to post by thrustbucket


I'm a good cop! I don't smoke "the good stuff"!!

On a serious note, do you understand the hypocrisy that saying that socialism is wrong and doesn't work when right now, as we speak, the US capitalistic system is failing Americans, making them poor and homeless?

Magnum

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

What about law enforcement, leave that to the free market, your prison service is already in private hands which may help explain why America has the highest prison population in the Western world. Profiteering from locking up people. Sweet.

In my world you legalize Cannabis - problem solved. Having every little thing be illegal is another aspect of the collectivist state.

Why dont you just hand the education system over to the private sector? maybe get in some big corporate to take over the education of your nations children, a bright future awaits Im sure.

If schools would have to compete, maybe they`d perform a little better and actually produce some educated people.

reply to post by Magnum007


You have to be Joking LOL!!

Life Expectancy in the Ukraine is 68.3 years of age. Life expectancy in America is 78.4 years of age. This is with the population over 300 million in America and 46 million in the Ukraine.

Of course we want the Ukraine health system LOL.

reply to post by SassyCat


Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia broke off peacefully because they had a serious amount of Russian nukes in them... They were rich with agriculture and had many exports so they had a very good hand to play at the negotiation table...

Yugoslavia though, played their hand a little differently...