Muslims do NOT care if we burn the Koran! They care about THIS!

Kerala girl defies threats, wears jeans - not burqa

Kasargode (Kerala), Sep 18 (IANS) An aeronautical engineer by qualification and preparing for the civil services exam, a 23-year-old Muslim girl here refuses to wear the burqa and often sports jeans despite constant threats to her life.

sify.com...

Pakistan: Muslims burn Christian man as policeman rapes his wife

In January, Muslim religious leaders and Sheik Sultan asked Masih and his family to convert to Islam. Masih and his family refused to convert and informed Sheik Sultan that they were going to quit working for him.

The Sheik became furious and warned Masih that he would kill him if he quit. Masih told his family and friends about the entire incident. Christian leaders tried to persuade the Sheik to let Masih and his family leave his house.

On March 14, Sheik Sultan`s house was robbed. He filed a case of theft of 500,000 Rupees ($ 5,952) against Martha. After taking them for questioning, the police assaulted Masih and raped Martha.

Two days later, Sheik Sultan told the couple that he would ask the police to release them if they converted to Islam. The couple refused to recant their faith.

On March 19, Masih was set on fire in front of the police station. At the time, three Muslim religious leaders and three policemen were present at the scene. The perpetrators have not been identified.

Masih’s children Mary, 12, Nasir, 10, and Neha, 7, are deeply traumatized after witnessing acts of brutality against their family at the hands of Muslims.

Dr. Nazir S Bhatti, president of Pakistan Christian Congress, condemned the killing of Masih and rape of his wife.“ Rape of Martha Bibi before her children by Muslim police officials and burning of her husband took place just a few miles from building of the Supreme Court of Pakistan where Muslim jusdges sitting on benches of justice have no sympathy with Christian victims. Perhaps in the eyes of these judges rape of an "infidel woman" is not a crime."

www.nowpublic.com...

Hmmm, is this counted as flooding or spamming?

I can never remember the difference.

reply to post by ollncasino


Guy's I think ollncasino is making the case pretty well. Go check out the book 'Culture War?' by Morris Fiorna. You'll see that the vast majority of people in America are extremely moderate when it comes to cultural issues but that organized groups on both extremes are frighteningly adept at manipulating a give-and-take, tug-of-war, legislative process and media and making it appear as if we are a more hostile, extreme and divided country then we really are. Its the same thing with Muslims, I'm sure.

Simply showing proof that the majority of muslims are moderate has nothing to do with the fact that islamization is real and that extremist muslims have no problem finding positions of power in western communities and the middle east. Its just denial.

reply to post by snusfanatic


Or here's a good illustration.

Assume its the year 1640 and you're going to take another survey of England. What do you expect to find?

You ask the normal folk, are you norman or anglo-saxon? How do you feel about the other group? How do you feel about the monarchy? Do ally more along racial lines or nationality?

A slim majority may identify as English and loyal to the crown. But you know what's coming next don't you? Extremists who give a hoot about the racial differences and want to take down, not only the crown, but the aristocracy as a whole are coming and they're going to radically change the history of Britain and the New World forever.

Point is, history and government's are often shaped by people who do care about things that we consider extreme despite a relatively passive majority.

Simply showing proof that the majority of muslims are moderate has nothing to do with the fact that islamization is real and that extremist muslims have no problem finding positions of power in western communities and the middle east. Its just denial.

Really? because ollncasino posted a survey which he and others insist is legit, which flatly contradict your statement.

Edit: Proof, overated I reckon.

Originally posted by snusfanatic
Guy's I think ollncasino is making the case pretty well. Go check out the book 'Culture War?' by Morris Fiorna. You'll see that the vast majority of people in America are extremely moderate when it comes to cultural issues but that organized groups on both extremes are frighteningly adept at manipulating a give-and-take, tug-of-war, legislative process and media and making it appear as if we are a more hostile, extreme and divided country then we really are. Its the same thing with Muslims, I'm sure.

Thanks for understanding my point. All around the world, Muslims are pushing.

This thread could be filled with hundreds if not thousands of examples, from just the last 12 months, of Muslims around the world pushing against other religions and the secular West to assert Muslim rights at the expense of everyone else's rights.

Originally posted by joewalker
reply to post by Maslo

 

No, we have credible survey (prove its flawed!)

So much hate, thats not a very christian like attitude to take, you dont even say please or would you mind.

Did you not understand the question re the veils? The people conducting the survey wearnt even sure what question they were asking so god knows where they got the answers.

As to the rest of your request, to which survey are you referring? Do you know?

Like the sig by the way. Irony is like silvery to some of you, I guess.

edit on 26-9-2010 by joewalker because: (no reason given)

and that is a very muslim dodge.

tequila! lol!

reply to post by fooks

Oh dear, logic and the act of having to think upsets another one.

Are you going to break like ollncasino did and spam the thread up, or do you prefer name calling?

Muslim dodge . If some of the people who have posted in this thread are our best defense against the radical islamists then god help us all.

Absinthe! lol.

Many British Muslims are Pakistanis (about 1.2 million) out of a total Muslim population of around 2.4 million Muslims. Muslims make up 4% of the UK population.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

The Pew report surveyed Pakistani public opinion, in Pakistan.

83% of Pakistanis supported stoning of adulterers.

80% supported the cutting off of hands of thieves.

78% supported the death penalty for leaving Islam.

pewglobal.org...

The Pew report in 2006 found that

81% of British Muslims thought of themselves as Muslims first and British second.

Only 7% thought of themself as British first.

69% of Spanish Muslims thought of themselves as Muslims first and Spanish second.

Only 3% though of themself as Spanish first.

66% of German Muslims thought of themselves as Muslims first and German second.

Only 13% thought of themself as German first.

46% of French Muslims thought of themselves as Muslims first and French second.

42% thought of themself as French first.

pewglobal.org...

Who cares what muslims care about?

Really, who cares that we might hurt their little, itty bitty tiny feelings.

reply to post by ollncasino


Ollncasino BEFORE his attempted threadjack:

We must keep things in perspective.

Our threadjacker posted this survey from policyexchange.org
www.policyexchange.org.uk...
Unfortunately for our hero, he had read but not actually understood the reports conclusions..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

My fears are in line with the reports findings

When it was politely pointed out to ollnacasino that his re-interpretation of the reports conclusions were promoting rather than denying ignorance, our hero turned all personal:

If 1 in 3 lodgers in my house believed in some sky god and wanted to kill people who no longer believed in their sky god, then I would be quite concerned living in the same house as those particular Sky god believers.

Reply by me:

But I am not a member of their sky god cult and don't fret too much because I know it is a minority view.

I would also expect that the wider society would help the minority of the minority see the error of their ways and if that fails, I would expect the full force of the law to be visited upon your friends, er, I mean lodgers.

Ollnacasino had once again missed the point. I guess that a society based on laws rather than mob rule was just too much to take.

Are you for real???

Are you sure you don't believe in that particular sky god?

Yes quite sure thank you.
But the thing that really kicked ollacasino off was this:

"Only a minority of people described as ‘radicalised’ or ‘extremist’ Muslims is likely to commit or plan terrorist attacks. This group is extremely small and there is little evidence to show that radical Islamist terrorist groups constitute a mass social movement in Western society."

Its one of the reports conclusions that ollna posted and said he agreed with.

oops.

Originally posted by snusfanatic
Simply showing proof that the majority of muslims are moderate has nothing to do with the fact that islamization is real and that extremist muslims have no problem finding positions of power in western communities and the middle east. Its just denial.

Too true.

Look at the dangers to democracy in Turkey.

Keep in mind that the Turkish army has needed to stage coups 4 times since WWII to stop Muslims abolishing democracy.

Erdogan, the Turkish PM, however, has recently arrested a large number of army generals on the grounds of them plotting another coup.

In light of Erdogan's statements in the past, their plotting is perhaps justified.

The Turkish Islamic PM Erdogan has been quoted as saying

"Democracy is a train, from which you can alight once you reached your destination."

www.financialexpress.com...

'The Muslim world is waiting for Turkey to rise up. We will rise up! With Allah's permission, the rebellion will start.'

and

'The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers.'

www.dailymail.co.uk...

He has also stated, when talking to a crowd of 16,000 Turkish immigrants in Germany

"Assimilation is a crime against humanity"

www.jihadwatch.org...

Originally posted by joewalker
Ollnacasino had once again missed the point. I guess that a society based on laws rather than mob rule was just too much to take.

Have you considered trying to educate Islamic fundamentalists about the benefits of the rule of law?

Perhaps you could talk to the Muslim who attacked Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard in his own home?

The Danish cartoonist who survived an axe attack

www.guardian.co.uk...

or perhaps you could speak to the Muslims who murdered Theo van Gogh for making a documentary about Islam that they disagreed with?

Gunman Kills Theo van Gogh

news.bbc.co.uk...

Or perhaps you should throw your net wider and talk to the Muslims who indulged in some old fashioned, down to earth, Islamic mob rule during

The Salman Rushdie riots, 1989

The "Miss World" riots, 2002

The "Newsweek" riots, 2005

The "Muhammed cartoons" riots, 2005-06

The Pope Benedict riots, 2006

The Sudan "teddy bear" incident, 2007

The Johann Hari riots, 2009

The Taslima Nasrin riots, 2010

Everybody Draw Mohammed Day, 2010

"International Burn A Koran Day", 2010

markhumphrys.com...

Taking the "Muhammed cartoons" riots as an example, the final death toll, at the hands of Muslim mobs around the world, was about 140 people.

reply to post by joewalker

Yes quite sure thank you.
But the thing that really kicked ollacasino off was this:

"Only a minority of people described as ‘radicalised’ or ‘extremist’ Muslims is likely to commit or plan terrorist attacks. This group is extremely small and there is little evidence to show that radical Islamist terrorist groups constitute a mass social movement in Western society."

Its one of the reports conclusions that ollna posted and said he agreed with.
oops.

The word is "terrorist attacks". Failing to assimilate in our society and instead trying to asimilate us, supporting violence in the name of religion, breaching human rights and promoting sharia law are not terrorist attacks. But they are even more dangerous in the long run. If they commited terrorist attacks they would be doomed. But if they slowly advance they goals, gaining ground and influence, destroying our western way of life from within, they may even reach they goal - domination of islam.
What percentage of muslims would be brave enough to commit terrorist attacks in the name of religion is not important. What percentage would support sharia law, dominance of islam if there is a chance to install it, killing in the name of religion (even if not done personally by them) etc. is far more important in the long run. And numbers by ollacasino show that significant minority of them would.

Ever heard of that famous frog saying?:
"When you want to cook a frog, they say, don’t throw it into boiling water, since it will only jump out. Instead, place Froggie in a pot with tepid water and, ever so slowly, continue to increase the heat. When the poor fellow finally realizes he is being cooked, he’ll have no more strength to resist."

reply to post by ollncasino

I'm happy to have a conversation with you ollncasino but only if you stop throwing toys out of the pram every time you feel threatened.

The survey you posted was, imo, on topic and extremely relevent to the statement made in the op and FWIW, I think it was a very good find.
I dont care what peoples opinions are, but please, dont mess with facts and don't attribute words to me that I haven't written.

As I've made clear above, if you can stay almost on topic then I'm in. However, the op may want his thread back.

Pomposity over; Lets go deny some ignorance.

reply to post by Maslo

Ever heard of that famous frog saying?:
"When you want to cook a frog, they say, don’t throw it into boiling water, since it will only jump out. Instead, place Froggie in a pot with tepid water and, ever so slowly, continue to increase the heat. When the poor fellow finally realizes he is being cooked, he’ll have no more strength to resist."

I prefer the phrase 'salami tactics' it was often used to describe how the Eastern Bloc could roll across western Europe, not in one go but bit by bit. Ahhh memories.

So you now accept that the potential for terrorism is real but quite small, we move on to scary take over tactics do we?
Cool, please explain to me how sharia affects my daily life because, and Im being honest here, it kinda doesn't.

Well in fact its been turned on Hispanics, almost overnight the new terrorist and threat to America are hispanics.
People are so easily led that any person with access to local media or any other outlet can say one thing and almost overnight have the whole country in a uproar. I would like to see someone say that sesame street caused them to kill people, then the whole country would hate sesame street and all the news media poeople would bring in experts and then you would have picketing and finnaly a goverment response to ban all images of ernie and big bird. Then........... Santa clause is the next one because he promotes coc aine use(santa's dust) and burglery the all the tea party people will picket and hate santa and then it will be illegal to celebrate. Really people this is to funny. Watch the simpsons and see the stuff the town does then go watch fox news its hillarious. In az some woman saw a cougar while jogging in the desert, so tucson formed a cougar patrol and had helicopters and night vision equipment and "experts". On the simpsons same thing but it was a bear.

reply to post by Juan520


The question of mass illegal immigration by hispanics is very similar to the problem of islam in europe. both pit democracy and the rule of law against 'tolerance.' tolerance is great. i see no problem with hispanic culture. but to say that a democracy like america doesn't have the right to control immigration or enforce laws against undocumented occupants of the country is akin to saying that islamic law should be upheld in our courts. 'we the people' is america. we can deal with the illegal immigration problem by deportation or requests for documentation if we want.