Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!

Originally posted by EricChanning
reply to post by neformore

 

It's not about persecution or relocation or subjective testimonies or cherry picked history or anything to do with Hitler. Those things are not based on "science" or "scientific method". That's not how science works.

If you think the holocaust had nothing to do with Hitler, then you are sadly misguided and very much deluded in your viewpoint.

I suppose - and it is supposition based on your statement quote above - that you think WW2 was nothing to do with him either?

I guess Pol Pot had nothing to do with the killing fields in Cambodia either?

You could, honestly, show me your Linked In profile, your qualification certificates and even the papers you submitted to prove how you ascertained them - it would mean nothing with regard to this subject after that statement.

Why?

Because you simply refuse to believe what is in front of you, and dismiss anything that doesn't conform to your paradigm as nothing to do with the subject matter, which I find a complete joke when it comes from someone who claims to be a scientist and refers to scientific method.

I'm guessing that you base your denial on the works of Fred Leuchter, a man who has had his work refuted by the scientific community on more than one occasion, his collection methods were abysmal, he took samples from a reconstructed chamber that the Nazi's blew up. His analysis was poorly undertaken and he also failed to explain why his so called "delousing" chambers contained so little hydrogen cyanide when killing of insects requires MORE of it to be present than when killing humans.

Maybe you should read Jean Claud Pressac's Auschwitz:Teechnique-and-operation of the Gas Chambers. Pressac was a chemist - a scientist just like yourself and originally a holocaust denier

Or maybe the works of Professor Jan Markiewicz, the Director of the Forensic Institute of Cracow who re-did an analysis at Auschwitz and proved high levels of cyanide in the chambers. His peer-reviewed scientific study can be found here - www.nizkor.org...

So - historical record and evidence wasn't good enough for you. I wonder what reason you will come up with to not to accept two separate scientific studies carried out by qualified individuals?

reply to post by neformore


You keep changing the subject. My premise AGAIN was only based on Auschwitz and empirical evidence and observation. There are obvious lies and subsequent propaganda the lies were covering. My question is "why".

Just answer that one question, please Why the lies? I don't care about anything else' it is hearsay to me and completely not relative to my premise..

They even changed the original memorial plaque. Please don't try to distract by mentioned anything else to me again because I don't care or believe anyone's story that claims there were gas chambers in Auschwitz. That 1.3 million Jewish people were gassed there.

So, I sense some trolling here. if you don't answer my questions, I'm done because you are not being honest to seek truth. And what makes you such an expert anyway? Are you even out of high school? Why do you even care? You obviously don't understand science so you can't be much older than 20, if that much. No one with a half a brain cell would look at the evidence that is out there and not see it's b.s. Why are you so vehemently trying to hide? Last chance to come clean buckaroo.

reply to post by EricChanning


The two scientific studies I have linked in my post above were both about Auschwitz, were undertaken by scientists and were peer reviewed. Are you ignoring science now as well as history?

As you have resorted to insults and attempts to smear and are still ignoring evidence put in front of you, I'd say that you really have no counter argument - or anything - to offer any more except your personal insistence on the issue, despite a mass of evidence against you - including that which you apparently hold dear in "scientific method"

reply to post by neformore


Gassing Expert Refutes Extermination Story

America's leading gas chamber expert, Boston engineer Fred A. Leuchter, carefully examined the supposed "gas chambers" in Poland and concluded that the Auschwitz gassing story is absurd and technically impossible.

Leuchter is the foremost specialist on the design and installation of gas chambers used in the United States to execute convicted criminals. For example, he designed a gas chamber facility for the Missouri state penitentiary.

In February 1988 he carried out a detailed onsite examination of the "gas chambers" at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek in Poland, which are either still standing or only partially in ruins. In sworn testimony to a Toronto court and in a technical report, Leuchter described every aspect of his investigation.

He concluded by emphatically declaring that the alleged gassing facilities could not possibly have been used to kill people. Among other things, he pointed out that the so-called "gas chambers" were not properly sealed or vented to kill human beings without also killing German camp personnel. [20]

Dr. William B. Lindsey, a research chemist employed for 33 years by the Dupont Corporation, likewise testified in a 1985 court case that the Auschwitz gassing story is technically impossible. Based on a careful on-site examination of the "gas chambers" at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek, and on his years of experience, he declared: "I have come to the conclusion that no one was willfully or purposefully killed with Zyklon B [hydrocyanic acid gas] in this manner. I consider it absolutely impossible." [21]

Summary

The Auschwitz extermination story originated as wartime propaganda. Now, more than 60 years after the end of the Second World War, it is time to take another, more objective look at this highly polemicized chapter of history. The Auschwitz legend is the core of the Holocaust story. If hundreds of thousands of Jews were not systematically killed there, as alleged, one of the great myths of our time collapses.

Artificially maintaining the hatreds and passions of the past prevents genuine reconciliation and lasting peace. Revisionism promotes historical awareness and international understanding. That is why the work of the Institute for Historical Review is so important and deserves your support.

reply to post by neformore


Notes

1. Nuremberg document 008-USSR. IMT blue series, Vol. 39, pp. 241, 261.; NC
and A red series, vol. 1, p. 35.; C.L. Sulzberger, "Oswiecim Killings Placed
at 4,000,000," New York Times, May 8, 1945, and, New York Times, Jan. 31, 1986,
p. A4.
2. Y. Bauer, "Fighting the Distortions," Jerusalem Post (Israel), Sept. 22,
1989; "Auschwitz Deaths Reduced to a Million," Daily Telegraph (London), July
17, 1990; "Poland Reduces Auschwitz Death Toll Estimate to 1 Million," The
Washington Times, July 17, 1990.
3. G. Reitlinger, The Final Solution (1971); J.-C. Pressac, Le Crématoires
d'Auschwitz: La Machinerie du meurtre de mass (Paris: CNRS, 1993). On Pressac's
estimates, see: L'Express (France), Sept. 30, 1993, p. 33.
4. Washington (DC) Daily News, Feb. 2, 1945, pp. 2, 35. (United Press
dispatch from Moscow).
5. IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21, 1946).
6. Nuremberg document 3868-PS (USA-819). IMT blue series, Vol. 33, pp.
275-279.
7. Rupert Butler, Legions of Death (England: 1983), pp. 235; R. Faurisson,
The Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1986-87, pp. 389-403.
8. Archives of the Jewish Historical Institute of Warsaw, German document
No. 128, in: H. Eschwege, ed., Kennzeichen J (East Berlin: 1966), p. 264.
9. Nuremberg document NO-021. NMT green series, Vol. 5. pp. 384-385.
10. Arthur Butz, The Hoax of the Twentieth Century (Costa Mesa, Calif.), p.
124.
11. Arno Mayer, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The 'Final Solution' in
History (Pantheon, 1989), p. 365.
12. Nuremberg document NI-11696. NMT green series, Vol. 8, p. 606.
13. Testimony in Toronto District Court, March 28, 1988. Toronto Star, March
29, 1988, p. A2.
14. Sylvia Rothchild, ed., Voices from the Holocaust (New York: 1981), pp.
188-191.
15. Walter Laqueur, The Terrible Secret (Boston: 1981), p. 169.
16. Nuremberg document PS-2171, Annex 2. NC&A red series, Vol. 4, pp.
833-834.
17. "Rules and Regulations for the Concentration Camps." Anthology, Inhuman
Medicine, Vol. 1, Part 1 (Warsaw: International Auschwitz Committee, 1970), pp.
149-151.; S. Paskuly, ed., Death Dealer: the Memoirs of the SS Kommandant at
Auschwitz (Buffalo: 1992), pp. 216-217.
18. Dino A. Brugioni and Robert C. Poirier, The Holocaust Revisited
(Washington, DC: Central Intelligence Agency, 1979).
19. Canadian Jewish News (Toronto), April 14, 1988, p. 6.
20. The Leuchter Report: An Engineering Report on the Alleged Execution Gas
Chambers at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek (Toronto: 1988). Available for
$17.00, postpaid, from the IHR.
21. The Globe and Mail (Toronto), Feb. 12, 1985, p. M3
#2001

reply to post by EricChanning


www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm guessing that you base your denial on the works of Fred Leuchter, a man who has had his work refuted by the scientific community on more than one occasion, his collection methods were abysmal, he took samples from a reconstructed chamber that the Nazi's blew up. His analysis was poorly undertaken and he also failed to explain why his so called "delousing" chambers contained so little hydrogen cyanide when killing of insects requires MORE of it to be present than when killing humans.

Maybe you should read Jean Claud Pressac's Auschwitz:Teechnique-and-operation of the Gas Chambers. Pressac was a chemist - a scientist just like yourself and originally a holocaust denier

Or maybe the works of Professor Jan Markiewicz, the Director of the Forensic Institute of Cracow who re-did an analysis at Auschwitz and proved high levels of cyanide in the chambers. His peer-reviewed scientific study can be found here - www.nizkor.org...

Please... if you are going to attempt to argue with me, I suggest you read my posts.

And then you really, really ought to read this.

Fred A.Leuchter

In October 1990, the commonwealth of Massachusetts brought criminal charges against Leuchter for representing himself as an engineer without a license.[2] Leuchter not only lacks an engineering license but has neither an engineering degree nor any other relevant professional certification or recognized credential - his education consists of a BA in history, which he completed in 1964. In 1991, the case was settled under the agreement that he will serve two years' probation for practicing engineering without a license.[28] He admits to having no formal training in toxicology, biology or chemistry.[2]

(emphasis mine)

Your golden boy is something of a fraud.

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


David Irving crushes your b.s.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by neformore


And you didn't answer my questions or have courtesy to reciprocate the information about who you even are and why this important to you. That's was it for me. Your intentions are not about seeking truth. I asked you one question and your refuse to answer.

I trust Irving can answer your lies much better if you want to watch the series but I know you won't because you are not seeking knowledge, you are only trying to keep the lie and feed your propaganda, which is dishonest and I will have nothing more to say. Good day sir.

Originally posted by EricChanning
reply to post by neformore

 

And you didn't answer my questions or have courtesy to reciprocate the information about who you even are and why this important to you.

Who am I? I'm Neformore. I'm a Super Moderator on ATS (it says so on the left hand side, see?) I'm also the host of the ATS Live Radio show. Why is that important to the debate here?

Why is the subject important to me? Why shouldn't it be?

That's was it for me. Your intentions are not about seeking truth. I asked you one question and your refuse to answer.

Did you ever wonder how I know so much about this stuff? Did you ever actually consider (obviously not...) that I may have researched the matter thoroughly? You say I'm not about seeking truth, and yet every piece of evidence I've presented to you you've ducked and dived out of and tried to squirm round. You've not read my posts and tried to shun evidence by your sheer force of will while claiming "scientific method", which has been nonexistent.

And now you say this...

I trust Irving can answer your lies much better if you want to watch the series but I know you won't because you are not seeking knowledge, you are only trying to keep the lie and feed your propaganda, which is dishonest and I will have nothing more to say. Good day sir.

Irving is a hypocrite, a liar and a fraud who recanted his holocaust denial views in an attempt to get leniency from the court in Austria back in 2006.

So let me get this straight. I present historic evidence, and then links to peer reviewed scientific evidence of this atrocity and that is "propaganda"

You present insults and attempts to smear, pseudo science from a fraud and a man who compromises his own "belief" when it suits him, and we're all supposed to believe that instead?

reply to post by EricChanning


Your entire post is fascinating and made me feel rather ill. Let's start off with the little fact that David Irving has been exposed, in a court of law (I notice that you skip over that part, which is rather... interesting), as a charlatan, a liar and a fraud. As for the rest of it, it sounds like a standard anti-semitic diatribe, so I'm ignoring it as being beneath contempt.

I don't really know what to think about this subject at this point after listening to a couple speeches. Specifically Benjamin Freedman's 1961 speech at the Willard Hotel. It's strange that Hitler was obviously pissed at the jews over what they were "doing" to Germany at the time, and what went down with WW1 and Palestine. Yet he never visited a concentration camp, at least not that's recorded. There could be many reasons for this, he obviously wanted it to be very secretive.


But now I'm thinking of it more and.... not that I can understand German but as far as I know, he never really mentions hatred towards the jews publicly does he? like in his speeches? I could be wrong. If so, it seems all too convenient for the holocaust to be a set up.

If it really was a jew conspiracy to crush Germany and take Palestine, you think Hitler would've openly exposed that and showed his hatred for them, by showing up to these concentration camps?

I'm really tired here, tell me if I'm missing a piece of the puzzle.

reply to post by Oroborus


That's not the way that Hitler worked. He was a lazy man who liked having other people do his dirty work for him - Himmler for example, who attended at least one mass shooting. Hitler was a man who was obsessed with anti-semitism. It pervades his writings (both Main Kampf and the unpublished Second Book) as well as his speeches and his discussions with his inner circle (published as Table Talk and very disturbing it is indeed).

What exactly is the holocaust ?........I mean it originally referred to ALL that died in WW2.

Now it seems only to refer to 6 million jews being systematically led into gas chambers, killed, and then having their bodies cremated.

Is that what people think ?.......I think we have to be specific if we are to discuss it with an equal understanding of what is being claimed.

Originally posted by ken10
What exactly is the holocaust ?........I mean it originally referred to ALL that died in WW2.

Now it seems only to refer to 6 million jews being systematically led into gas chambers, killed, and then having their bodies cremated.

Is that what people think ?.......I think we have to be specific if we are to discuss it with an equal understanding of what is being claimed.

No, it refers to the Jews that were mass-murdered by the Germans.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by ken10
What exactly is the holocaust ?........I mean it originally referred to ALL that died in WW2.

Now it seems only to refer to 6 million jews being systematically led into gas chambers, killed, and then having their bodies cremated.

Is that what people think ?.......I think we have to be specific if we are to discuss it with an equal understanding of what is being claimed.

No, it refers to the Jews that were mass-murdered by the Germans.

Would you care to be more specific.

Now it seems only to refer to 6 million jews being systematically led into gas chambers, killed, and then having their bodies cremated.

Would you agree with that ?

Originally posted by ken10
What exactly is the holocaust ?........I mean it originally referred to ALL that died in WW2.

Now it seems only to refer to 6 million jews being systematically led into gas chambers, killed, and then having their bodies cremated.

Is that what people think ?.......I think we have to be specific if we are to discuss it with an equal understanding of what is being claimed.

Nope.

The holocaust refers to all people who were mass executed at the hands of the Nazi's in WW2.

Slavs, Romanies, Jehovah's Witnesses, The Polish Gentry, Russian Prisoners of War, various resistance members, communist party members, Political Dissidents, German Intellectuals who were Anti-Nazi, Physically and Mentally Disabled People, Homosexuals and Jewish people were killed.

Deniers like to try and plant the seed that somehow its only supposed to refer to Jewish people nowadays to prop up their arguments - oddly in a similar manner as to how Goebbels used to do such things.

Must be a Nazi mentality.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by ken10
What exactly is the holocaust ?........I mean it originally referred to ALL that died in WW2.

Now it seems only to refer to 6 million jews being systematically led into gas chambers, killed, and then having their bodies cremated.

Is that what people think ?.......I think we have to be specific if we are to discuss it with an equal understanding of what is being claimed.

Nope.

The holocaust refers to all people who were mass executed at the hands of the Nazi's in WW2.

Slavs, Romanies, Jehovah's Witnesses, The Polish Gentry, Russian Prisoners of War, various resistance members, communist party members, Political Dissidents, German Intellectuals who were Anti-Nazi, Physically and Mentally Disabled People, Homosexuals and Jewish people were killed.

Deniers like to try and plant the seed that somehow its only supposed to refer to Jewish people nowadays to prop up their arguments - oddly in a similar manner as to how Goebbels used to do such things.

Must be a Nazi mentality.

Have you read the WIKI link for the holocaust

The Holocaust (from the Greek ὁλόκαυστος holókaustos: hólos, "whole" and kaustós, "burnt")[2] also known as the Shoah (Hebrew: השואה, HaShoah, "catastrophe"; Yiddish: חורבן, Churben or Hurban, from the Hebrew for "destruction"), was the mass murder or genocide of approximately six million Jews during World War II, a programme of systematic state-sponsored murder by Nazi Germany, led by Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party, throughout German-occupied territory.[3][4] Of the nine million Jews who had resided in Europe before the Holocaust, approximately two-thirds were killed.[5] Over one million Jewish children were killed in the Holocaust, as were approximately two million Jewish women and three million Jewish men.

And then it says....

Some scholars argue that the mass murder of the Romani and people with disabilities should be included in the definition,[8][9] and some use the common noun "holocaust" to describe other Nazi mass murders, including those of Soviet prisoners of war, Polish and Soviet civilians, and homosexuals.

Some scholars

And then we have this...

For hundreds of years, the word "holocaust" was used in English to denote great massacres, but since the 1960s, the term has come to be used by scholars and popular writers to refer to the Nazi genocide of Jews

Looks like the term has been stolen then, Eh.

To my mind the only thing that should be made illegal is the term "holocaust", as it is an affront to all the other innocents that died too, approx 50 million of em.

reply to post by ken10


Like I said, deniers love to use that stuff, because they prey on peoples inaccuracies and to spread their particular brand of delusion to the world.

Its like the number quibbling - "it wasn't x amount, it was more likely y" - like it makes it right somehow

The simple fact is that a huge amount of people were exterminated in cold blood in less humane conditions that we process cattle.

The fact that people want to try to deny the whole thing because of their blatant social inadequacies and petty bigotry is shameful.

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by ken10

 

Like I said, deniers love to use that stuff, because they prey on peoples inaccuracies and to spread their particular brand of delusion to the world.

Its like the number quibbling - "it wasn't x amount, it was more likely y" - like it makes it right somehow

The simple fact is that a huge amount of people were exterminated in cold blood in less humane conditions that we process cattle.

The fact that people want to try to deny the whole thing because of their blatant social inadequacies and petty bigotry is shameful.

And not much to say to that one. Hence the crickets

reply to post by neformore


"He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future." -- George Orwell

You emphasis on the word "people" not just Jewish propaganda to allow them sympathy to walk all over others now.

Since we know Auschwitz gas chambers were a myth and the number of Jews that died was a gross exaggeration. Six million allegedly "gassed" as opposed to 30,000 that died from illness and as casualties of war NO DIFFERENT than the 55 million others that died but you say "HOLOCAUST" and it's remembers as "Jewish Persecution" and "genocide".

I have a theory.

I believe the U.S. citizenry's acceptance of the largest military industrial complex (largers than the next 25 largest armies combined, 24 of which are U.S. alliles) is being used as a vehicle for a fascist state by Zionist Israel oligarchy and driven largely due to Christian Zionist. There is a self fulfilling Biblical prophecy being accepted because Christianity has brainwashed the vast majority of people to believe in fairy tales. Except this fairy tale was created by Jewish people to control Christians; that some imaginary god chose Jewish people and it all Christian's responsibility to stand up for Israel.

The Neoconservatives, which include Obama and Bush and Clinton...etc all the way back to Kennedy; all believe in an Empirical dominance "against" all non-Jews with on going wars. Wars financed by predominately Jewish Banksters stemming back to the turn of the 20 century with financial tycoons and Theordor Herzl who said.

"Our first object is... the obtaining of sovereignty, assured by international law, over a portion of the globe sufficiently large to satisfy our just requirements." and

"Our opponents maintain that we are confronted with insurmountable political obstacles, but that may be said of the smallest obstacle if one has no desire to surmount it. "

So, no different than Hitler's fascist "White Supremacy" ideology, we now have "Jewish Supremacy" ideology. And the Holohoax as a feel only sorry for Jews that died during the war, although a tiny percentage, it just a way to gain support from retarded U.S. Christians as some sort of religious morality in support of Judaism without consideration to the whole of humanity as a fascist regime controlled by Zionist oligarchy.