Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!

Originally posted by filosophia
ATS staff should just rename this forum as "Holocaust threads we don't like", since they have an open we don't like Hitler policy already.

No, I think that Ludicrous Online Lies works just fine. Especially given the appalling standard of research of the average holocaust denier.

reply to post by filosophia


Here is a twenty part series on the death camps you may want to look at the pictures
www.theatlantic.com...

guitarplayer
reply to post by filosophia

 

Here is a twenty part series on the death camps you may want to look at the pictures
www.theatlantic.com...

I think you need to research the difference between a concentration camp and a death camp...Only from those pics most if not all were from concentration camps and not the alleged death camps.

Further, as horrific as the pics are....the cause of death were not all necessarily intentional, as can be seen from the quote taken from one of the pics.

Some 60,000 civilians, most suffering from typhus, typhoid and dysentery, were dying by the hundreds daily, despite the frantic efforts by medical services rushed to the camp.

Below is another horrific pic of dead bodies being burnt on a pyre, these deaths were intentional though.....done by the allies when they bombed Dresden just 12 weeks before the end of the war.

reply to post by ken10


What do you mean, 'alleged' death camps? They existed. It's a fact.

filosophia
www.holocaustdenialvideos.com...

Debunk any of these videos, or any points made by these videos. I would really like it if someone was able to do that.

If you need some direction, start with the David Cole video titled "Auschwitz" (below the first video on the homepage).

Some points to draw from the videos that I have never heard debunked before are as follows:
1. Zyklon-B is a disinfectant, which is why there are purple Zyklon-B streaks in the disenfectant room and not the gas chamber.

Let's do consider that. The Zyklon B was not sprayed, but administered through air vents, hence the word "gassing". And your statement completely blows your theory, why were there gas chambers? Explain the need for gas chambers in a "work camp".

Bleach is also a disinfectant, but you can't consume it either nor can you breathe too much of it. Zyklon B is a cyanide based pesticide, never was it used as a only a disinfectant.

2. As the David Cole video points out, the gas chamber was a reconstruction, and the famous holes on the top of the roof were added by the museum holders.

The gas chamber as a "reconstruction" still demands your attention. A reconstruction means a gas chamber did exist, for gas chambers to not have existed, there would be no reconstruction. So there were indeed gas chambers, not only at Auschwitz, but all the rest and at Chelmno, which is not mentioned by you.

Eisenhower remarked that unless someone took pictures or filmed it, people would say one day it never happened.These films were screened at the trial.

Arbeit Macht Frei was over the entrance of Auschwitz, was this a place they freely worked? If it were a "work camp" then why were they held in the compound? Were they able to walk freely into neighboring villages and do things like the Germans? You really have to question that, why were they in compounds in the first place? Did the Nazis have "job fairs" that attracted the Jews to the compounds and why did these compounds only hire Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Communists and undesirables instead of many Germans who also needed employment?

You should watch Der Ewige Jude then you might understand the Nazi propaganda against the Jews.

3. Prisoners head's were shaved in order to fight off typhus. Their clothes were removed for a similar reason, having nothing to do with Nazis stockpiling goods.

Obviously that is the most ingratiating comment to make, dismissing all the evidence from the British Army, the Communist Russia Army and the United States Armed Forces. Let me ask you this, if the Jews were willing to be "employed" in the compounds then why did Typhus remain within the Jewish population only? Why wasn't Typhus contracted by the many German soldiers? If there was so much casual interaction between the soldiers and the residents, then how did the Germans not contract it? And can you then tell us why there were German soldiers there in the first place if it were merely a "work camp". Explain the presence of armed soldiers in a "work camp".

December 13, 1945, U. S. prosecutor Thomas Todd introduced USA Exhibit #253: tanned human tattooed skin from concentration camp victims, preserved for Ilse Koch, the wife of the Commandant of Buchenwald, who liked to have the flesh fashioned into lampshades and other household objects for her home. Then Todd introduced USA Exhibit #254: the fist-shaped shrunken head of an executed Pole, used by Koch as a paperweight.

That's actual evidence from Buchenwald, not a contrived film prop.

4. The three concentration camps, Auschwitz, Berkanau, and Treblinka, comprise only 20 minutes of the Nuremberg trial, many of those minutes included the defense failing to ask questions or put in comments on behalf of the defendants.

There were actually 12 trials, and they went from 1945-1949. The only one to take any personal responsibility was Albert Speer.

5. Some of the German prisoners on trial at Nuremberg gave such outlandish stories that they must have been pleading guilty and working within the Holocaust story in order to avoid execution.

Most of the testimony came from others who were not Nazi soldiers. Colonel Rudolph Hoess himself gave testimony of gassing Jews at Auschwitz.

So, if anyone is interested, please watch some or all of the videos, and give me a hard core debunking of this. Give me your best shot.

And you have forgotten the words of Adolph Hitler himself. In the book Hitler's Table Talks 1941-1944, written by his secretary, Hitler makes no attempt at hiding the fact he approves of killing Jews.

Why don't you read what the man had to say. From his own mouth...

Page 30

I've ordered Himmler, in the event of there some day being reason to fear troubles back at home , to liquidate everything he finds in the concentration camps . Thus at a stroke the revolution would be deprived of its leaders .

What concentration camps? You mean Auschwitz, Bergen Belsen, Treblinka, Chelmno? To liquidate everything he finds? Heinrich Himmler was to LIQUIDATE everything he finds as trouble.

Page 31

I couldn't start a campaign of propaganda to create a climate favourable for the reverse situation ; and innumerable lives were saved by the fact that no newspaper o r magazine article ever contained a word that could have let anyone guess what we were preparing .

in regard to the invasion of Russia. That means Hitler did use propaganda, but in this instance did not.

And page 33

All this opens up economic vistas which , one may think , will incline the most liberal of the Western democrats towards the New Order.

Hitler was seeking the New Order, doesn't that make you ill to realize Hitler was behind the New Order?

ken10

guitarplayer
reply to post by filosophia

 

Some 60,000 civilians, most suffering from typhus, typhoid and dysentery, were dying by the hundreds daily, despite the frantic efforts by medical services rushed to the camp.

Below is another horrific pic of dead bodies being burnt on a pyre, these deaths were intentional though.....done by the allies when they bombed Dresden just 12 weeks before the end of the war.

Hitler gave DIRECT ORDERS to Heinrich Himmler to LIQUIDATE anything he thought was trouble in...you guessed it..CONCENTRATION CAMPS. Hitler does not distinguish death camps from concentration camps.

Frantic efforts from medical services? Do you mean like the Red Cross? Do you mean like German doctors? What medical services are you trying to imply here?

60,000 civilians? Who and where did these civilians come from and how were there even 60,000 civilians for the concentration camps in the first place. Do you mean the 60,000 non-citizens who were Jewish that had rights taken away from them as citizens in Germany?

Was this 60,000 in one year alone? That's a lot of "civilians", and yet the GERMAN population was not affected in any way, those women just kept popping German babies out. Can you show us any evidence of a plague of Typhus among the general population in Germany? If there was no plague of Typhus among the general population, then that means it was in specific areas. And those specific areas were.....you guessed it.

Don't you think that just by that number alone, it seems to indicate that a large portion of the population died, and yet the figures from the general population of Germans does not reflect that. So if they were mere civilians, where did these civilians come from? There is nothing from anywhere that mentions such a pandemic of the German population that warranted removal from villages and towns of Germans. So these people were who? The Jews and Gypsies who were no longer considered citizens. So then, how did the pandemic ONLY affect Jews, Gypsies and undesirables without affecting the rest of the German population?

reply to post by WarminIndy

Hitler gave DIRECT ORDERS to Heinrich Himmler to LIQUIDATE anything he thought was trouble in...you guessed it..CONCENTRATION CAMPS. Hitler does not distinguish death camps from concentration camps.

Well since ALL the alleged "Death Camps" were in Poland I guess Hitler DID distinguish which would be a concentration camp and which would be a "Death camp" !

Frantic efforts from medical services? Do you mean like the Red Cross? Do you mean like German doctors? What medical services are you trying to imply here?

If you had took the time to read the previous posters link that I had quoted from, You would have seen it referred to the medical staff AFTER the camp was liberated .

Can you show us any evidence of a plague of Typhus among the general population in Germany? If there was no plague of Typhus among the general population, then that means it was in specific areas. And those specific areas were.....you guessed it.

Maybe you should research before you post....

Epidemic typhus

Here, I'll spoonfeed you the relevant part....

During World War I typhus caused three million deaths in Russia and more in Poland and Romania. Delousing stations were established for troops on the Western front but the disease ravaged the armies of the Eastern front, with over 150,000 dying in Serbia alone. Fatalities were generally between 10 to 40 percent of those infected, and the disease was a major cause of death for those nursing the sick. Between 1918 and 1922 typhus caused at least 3 million deaths out of 20–30 million cases. In Russia after World War I, during a civil war between the White and Red armies, typhus killed three million, largely civilians. During World War II typhus struck the German army as it invaded Russia in 1941.[6] In 1942 and 1943 typhus hit French North Africa, Egypt and Iran particularly hard.[14] Typhus epidemics killed inmates in the Nazi Germany concentration camps; infamous pictures of typhus victims' mass graves can be seen in footage shot at Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.[6] Thousands of prisoners held in appalling conditions in Nazi concentration camps such Theresienstadt and Bergen-Belsen also died of typhus during World War II,[6] including Anne Frank at the age of 15 and her sister Margot. Even larger epidemics in the post-war chaos of Europe were only averted by the widespread use of the newly discovered DDT to kill the lice on millions of refugees and displaced persons.

Further, in regards to your earlier post:

In your response to this...

2. As the David Cole video points out, the gas chamber was a reconstruction, and the famous holes on the top of the roof were added by the museum holders.

Your answer contained this...

Eisenhower remarked that unless someone took pictures or filmed it, people would say one day it never happened.These films were screened at the trial.

You do know that NO allied armies saw Auschwitz or any other "Death camp", because they were all in Poland, as said previously, and that it was the Russians that liberated them.

Then you go on about Lampshades made from human skin.....Another Myth that has never been proven to this day...So your information is outdated.....and wrong.

Then we have this...

Most of the testimony came from others who were not Nazi soldiers. Colonel Rudolph Hoess himself gave testimony of gassing Jews at Auschwitz.

If you read Rudolph Hoess Testimony you will see he claims that around 3 million died at Auschwitz while he was there !........So this begs the question, IF his testimony had any truth to it.......WHY did they change the Plaque outside of Auschwitz from one stating 4 million had died there, to one stating approximately 1.5 million died there ???

ken10
reply to post by WarminIndy

Well since ALL the alleged "Death Camps" were in Poland I guess Hitler DID distinguish which would be a concentration camp and which would be a "Death camp" !

Well then, either Hitler and Himmler considered Poland to be home.
BTW, have you ever personally met someone who was in one of the camps? I have. So let's not play any more with words to dismiss what EVERY German knew what happened.

If you had took the time to read the previous posters link that I had quoted from, You would have seen it referred to the medical staff AFTER the camp was liberated .

They were still in a camp, right? There were gates and armed guards that gave up to the Allies, correct.

Maybe you should research before you post....

Epidemic typhus

Here, I'll spoonfeed you the relevant part....

During World War I typhus caused three million deaths in Russia and more in Poland and Romania. Delousing stations were established for troops on the Western front but the disease ravaged the armies of the Eastern front, with over 150,000 dying in Serbia alone. Fatalities were generally between 10 to 40 percent of those infected, and the disease was a major cause of death for those nursing the sick. Between 1918 and 1922 typhus caused at least 3 million deaths out of 20–30 million cases. In Russia after World War I, during a civil war between the White and Red armies, typhus killed three million, largely civilians. During World War II typhus struck the German army as it invaded Russia in 1941.[6] In 1942 and 1943 typhus hit French North Africa, Egypt and Iran particularly hard.[14] Typhus epidemics killed inmates in the Nazi Germany concentration camps; infamous pictures of typhus victims' mass graves can be seen in footage shot at Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.[6] Thousands of prisoners held in appalling conditions in Nazi concentration camps such Theresienstadt and Bergen-Belsen also died of typhus during World War II,[6] including Anne Frank at the age of 15 and her sister Margot. Even larger epidemics in the post-war chaos of Europe were only averted by the widespread use of the newly discovered DDT to kill the lice on millions of refugees and displaced persons.

I know someone from Bergen-Belsen, so I am glad you brought it up. You presented the information that is relevant to the discussion, because I asked about GERMANY, which was the EPICENTER of the Nazis and Adolph Hitler's atrocious plan. Show me ONE pandemic from GERMANY. Can you do that?

You do know that NO allied armies saw Auschwitz or any other "Death camp", because they were all in Poland, as said previously, and that it was the Russians that liberated them.

The camps were in France, Germany, Poland, Russia, Czechoslovaki, Romania, Hungary, Switzerland, Austria, Bulgaria, Croatia, Latvia and many more places. There were close to 1,200. Now can I ask you this, if these were just places for putting "political prisoners", they considered children to be political prisoners? What did children do to receive that distinction?

Dachau was the first. I never said Eisenhower was at Auschwitz, but good for you for assuming that. But isn't it interesting that the sign Arbeit Macht Frei is German, and not Polish? If Germany had only interesting in providing work for the Polish people, which is what a work camp is supposed to be, then why did Germany do it as part of a military action? Why send German soldiers to a "work camp"? Can you begin to get the idea now?

Then you go on about Lampshades made from human skin.....Another Myth that has never been proven to this day...So your information is outdated.....and wrong.

I gave you the exhibit case number and the day it was introduced into evidence. You might choose to believe it is a myth, but it was entered in as evidence.

Here is documents from the United States part in the trials.
Nuremburg Trials

The Allies weren't the only prosecutors or judges.

If you read Rudolph Hoess Testimony you will see he claims that around 3 million died at Auschwitz while he was there !........So this begs the question, IF his testimony had any truth to it.......WHY did they change the Plaque outside of Auschwitz from one stating 4 million had died there, to one stating approximately 1.5 million died there ???

With the huge movements of prisoners from camp to camp, no one will ever be sure of the correct number because it included children and people who had no identification.

Only the devil would derive such pleasure out of people denying that the worst happened to us in the 20th Century and that through causing people to turn their heads and not see the truth about what was happening to their neighbors and former friends, he led millions into passive complicity.

My compliments to the very patient and calm debunkers who have tackled OPs weird belief system, you were much more patient than I would have been.

Painterz
My compliments to the very patient and calm debunkers who have tackled OPs weird belief system, you were much more patient than I would have been.

I would give you a star if it were possible.

The work camps had gas chambers as disenfectant areas to stop the spread of disease.

The building was originally an air raid shelter that was turned into a 'gas chamber' according to Cole's documentary.

Hitler's table talk was not written by Hitler. To this day, not a single order was ever found to impliment the holocaust.

If Hitler wanted a New World Order (truly an LOL comment), why would the Soviets and USA stop him?

The camps were real and this is clearly expressed why in Mein Kampf, but as for wide scale deaths it is highly unlikely.

I could actually believe the nazis intentionally murdered jews but some things I can not tolerate/am baffled by:
My father, uncle, grandfather has a tattoo, he showed me, therefore death camps existed. Don't criticize Israel cause:holocaust. Don't question holocaust, not even on a "truther" website. Archeologists found a dozen or so bones, therefore 6 million died, but we won't dig further. Holocaust memorials on state grounds. The holocaust is like a religion, you must believe in it in absence of proof.

originally posted by: filosophia
The work camps had gas chambers as disenfectant areas to stop the spread of disease.

The building was originally an air raid shelter that was turned into a 'gas chamber' according to Cole's documentary.

Hitler's table talk was not written by Hitler. To this day, not a single order was ever found to impliment the holocaust.

If Hitler wanted a New World Order (truly an LOL comment), why would the Soviets and USA stop him?

The camps were real and this is clearly expressed why in Mein Kampf, but as for wide scale deaths it is highly unlikely.

I could actually believe the nazis intentionally murdered jews but some things I can not tolerate/am baffled by:
My father, uncle, grandfather has a tattoo, he showed me, therefore death camps existed. Don't criticize Israel cause:holocaust. Don't question holocaust, not even on a "truther" website. Archeologists found a dozen or so bones, therefore 6 million died, but we won't dig further. Holocaust memorials on state grounds. The holocaust is like a religion, you must believe in it in absence of proof.

Oh dear. Are you now claiming that the death camps didn't exist? Or that they were just work camps (for what exactly? What was produced there?) with rather vicious guards who liked killing people?

Table Talk was a collection of transcripts from Hitler's rants to his entourage. He didn't write it, he just spoke it. A bit like his military meetings, which become steadily more deranged the further he got from reality. And Hitler never gave controversial orders in writing. He would have given the order verbally to Himmler in one of his Under Four Eyes meetings - just him and one other person, no secretary, no paper trail, no nothing. Do some research on this, you'd be surprised.

Do you have any idea what Hitler's plans were for Europe in the event of a German victory? Go away and read Table Talk. Have a bucket next to you so that you can be violently ill. The man was a monster.

And finally, NO. You don't get to pretend that all the proof that has been listed in previous pages doesn't exist. You don't get to screw your eyes shut real tight and wish it all away whilst claiming - ridiculously - that none of it exists. It does. It's vast. Proof on the ground, proof on the arms of the diminishing number of survivors, proof in the plans, proof in the photos, proof in the intercepts. You don't get the say-so on if it exists. It does.

Well angry cy person you also don't get to close your eyes and pretend like all the facts in the previous pages don't exist either. I think it's obvious by now that no one denies camps existed, just like no one denies American camps held Japanese POW. Hitler's table talk was not written by him, so thanks for verifying that. And where is this supposed order given to Himmler? I'm sure Raul Hilberg who admitted no such order existed would like to know. And you're really going to bring up hypotheticals of what IF Hitler succeeded? Well here's a fact, America "succeeded" and hasn't stopped waging war since.

originally posted by: filosophia
Well angry cy person you also don't get to close your eyes and pretend like all the facts in the previous pages don't exist either. I think it's obvious by now that no one denies camps existed, just like no one denies American camps held Japanese POW. Hitler's table talk was not written by him, so thanks for verifying that. And where is this supposed order given to Himmler? I'm sure Raul Hilberg who admitted no such order existed would like to know. And you're really going to bring up hypotheticals of what IF Hitler succeeded? Well here's a fact, America "succeeded" and hasn't stopped waging war since.

What facts? Other than the facts that show that the Holocaust happened? Those facts you mean? And I see that you continue to brush over the nature of the camps. Care to admit that many were death camps? The US camps for Japanese people were holding camps by the way - not extermination camps. So there is no equivalence there.
Hitler's Table Talk was put together from GERMAN transcripts. He said it. So total fail on your part as there is no controversy on that part.
The order to Himmler - it was verbal. No-one knows when it was given. You obviously know nothing about the way that Hitler ruled the Third Reich. Which doesn't surprise me at all. By the way you have misinterpreted Raul Hilberg. Which again does not surprise me.
Congratulations. You have confirmed my views about you.

Holy crap, way to put cognitive dissonance into perspective dude. No matter the truth, with so many lies out there most people couldn't handle it anyway, even if it was right on the TV or in front of their face.

originally posted by: jvm222


It is like a little child caught in a lie and he told that lie to billions of people. But the child has the power over everyone and can cause so much chaos if someone decides they would like to speak out against the lie he told. This child has built so much guilt and spilled so much blood and caused so much hate and division through this one lie that because of the emotional value this lie has created it is nearly impossible to question without stirring up so many feelings of anger, hatred and sadness in so many people. If the whole truth came out, people would still not believe because it has become so embedded in them emotionally and they feel that emotion so deeply that you cannot reason with them because they are so so emotionally attached to something that deep and shocking without causing a negative emotion. It would be like trying to tell someone their feelings are wrong. But it is not the persons fault who was taught that in schools and the medias. For they do not know the conditioning and the purpose of this conditioning.

originally posted by: Ziath
Holy crap, way to put cognitive dissonance into perspective dude. No matter the truth, with so many lies out there most people couldn't handle it anyway, even if it was right on the TV or in front of their face.

originally posted by: jvm222


It is like a little child caught in a lie and he told that lie to billions of people. But the child has the power over everyone and can cause so much chaos if someone decides they would like to speak out against the lie he told. This child has built so much guilt and spilled so much blood and caused so much hate and division through this one lie that because of the emotional value this lie has created it is nearly impossible to question without stirring up so many feelings of anger, hatred and sadness in so many people. If the whole truth came out, people would still not believe because it has become so embedded in them emotionally and they feel that emotion so deeply that you cannot reason with them because they are so so emotionally attached to something that deep and shocking without causing a negative emotion. It would be like trying to tell someone their feelings are wrong. But it is not the persons fault who was taught that in schools and the medias. For they do not know the conditioning and the purpose of this conditioning.

I have to agree 100% this is usually the case and really is whats going on...I wanted to star and flag, however I am not allowed to do so, truth is this thread along with many others is in the wrong forum. But who am I to complain im just a simple man.

OG

originally posted by: OrionsGem

originally posted by: Ziath
Holy crap, way to put cognitive dissonance into perspective dude. No matter the truth, with so many lies out there most people couldn't handle it anyway, even if it was right on the TV or in front of their face.

originally posted by: jvm222


It is like a little child caught in a lie and he told that lie to billions of people. But the child has the power over everyone and can cause so much chaos if someone decides they would like to speak out against the lie he told. This child has built so much guilt and spilled so much blood and caused so much hate and division through this one lie that because of the emotional value this lie has created it is nearly impossible to question without stirring up so many feelings of anger, hatred and sadness in so many people. If the whole truth came out, people would still not believe because it has become so embedded in them emotionally and they feel that emotion so deeply that you cannot reason with them because they are so so emotionally attached to something that deep and shocking without causing a negative emotion. It would be like trying to tell someone their feelings are wrong. But it is not the persons fault who was taught that in schools and the medias. For they do not know the conditioning and the purpose of this conditioning.

I have to agree 100% this is usually the case and really is whats going on...I wanted to star and flag, however I am not allowed to do so, truth is this thread along with many others is in the wrong forum. But who am I to complain im just a simple man.

OG

Sorry, but no. This thread is in just the right forum. Holocaust denial is despicable and is not tolerated on this website. It's based on shoddy research, hatred, stupidity and a massive lack of understanding about the creed of murderous, destructive, evil that Hitler spouted from the very dark crevice that was his mind.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: OrionsGem

originally posted by: Ziath
Holy crap, way to put cognitive dissonance into perspective dude. No matter the truth, with so many lies out there most people couldn't handle it anyway, even if it was right on the TV or in front of their face.

originally posted by: jvm222


It is like a little child caught in a lie and he told that lie to billions of people. But the child has the power over everyone and can cause so much chaos if someone decides they would like to speak out against the lie he told. This child has built so much guilt and spilled so much blood and caused so much hate and division through this one lie that because of the emotional value this lie has created it is nearly impossible to question without stirring up so many feelings of anger, hatred and sadness in so many people. If the whole truth came out, people would still not believe because it has become so embedded in them emotionally and they feel that emotion so deeply that you cannot reason with them because they are so so emotionally attached to something that deep and shocking without causing a negative emotion. It would be like trying to tell someone their feelings are wrong. But it is not the persons fault who was taught that in schools and the medias. For they do not know the conditioning and the purpose of this conditioning.

I have to agree 100% this is usually the case and really is whats going on...I wanted to star and flag, however I am not allowed to do so, truth is this thread along with many others is in the wrong forum. But who am I to complain im just a simple man.

OG

Sorry, but no. This thread is in just the right forum. Holocaust denial is despicable and is not tolerated on this website. It's based on shoddy research, hatred, stupidity and a massive lack of understanding about the creed of murderous, destructive, evil that Hitler spouted from the very dark crevice that was his mind.

Im not denying it, my grandmas parents got killed by the nazis while out food shopping during their invasion of Russia.
I just think its in the wrong forum is all.