Calling all Debunkers, and anyone who thinks Holocaust Denial is offensive, debunk this!

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
Amen brother,Amen. Finally a truthfull post of facts about the holocaust. Numbers have a way of being unable to lie, they can be manipulated as in this case, but they don't lie. The jews claims of 6 million dead is a gigantic injustice to all the others that died in the camps. Maybe one day everyone can do the math.

edit on 13-12-2012 by openyourmind1262 because: (no reason given)

Non-Jewish historians have come up with the rough figure of six million dead. So other people have done the maths and it seems to tally with the evidence. Which again is massive.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


@AngryCymraeg. Just because you can say it doesn't make it so. David Irving is probably as respected of a historian on the subject as anyone you could site; even more so. But he hasn't lied just to sell his books or patronize certain faux sensitivities or lied just to be "politically correct" if it wasn't the truth as he understood it.

But I will succeed and grant you that if you want to look at all casualties that claim to be "Jewish" for whatever reason as a percentage of the population demographically. The claim of being Jewish was about as ambiguous as calling yourself a "Gypsy" or a "Protestant" or a "Catholic" or whatever. And then if you looked at the deaths of all people between 1938 - 1945 that called themselves "Jewish"; then it might be reasonable to come up with a six million number out of the 55 - 60 million total who happen to die during that period of time of natural causes or as casualties of an awful war right along with everybody else. And I'm sure a lot of people didn't like the Jews; the Japanese didn't like the Chinese and the French didn't like the Americans; the English couldn't stand the Russians...etc. That's bigotry; a lot of it from propaganda from past disputes and nationalistic fervor. Being Jewish doesn't make anyone special or better than anyone else as a result of the WW2 period.

And I will had it's pretty well documented that the Jewish Banksters financed both sides of many wars including the American Civil War. [They] caused the Great Depression (on purpose) and manipulated the global monetary funds; started wars for profits...etc. This was well known not that all Jewish people were bankers but they did have a bad reputation when it came to money matters and greed.

And what makes this so wrong is Jewish people want to make the whole war about them and they gave it a name "Holocaust" 40 years later and think it entitles them to special treatment and subsequent reparations and the right to murder and steal from others; then you are deluded.

But if you maintain that there were 6 million "Jews" gassed at Auschwitz or even 4 or 1 million or 100,000; you're wrong. Even if you said there was one person that happened to be Jewish that was gassed or any other person, you would be wrong because they simply didn't find any evidence that anyone had ever been gassed there. FACT!

Originally posted by EricChanning
reply to post by neformore

 

I did read the link BTW, it was not relative to any of my assertions.

You asserted that the jews weren't persecuted. How then, do you explain the documented facts that were in my linked post?

I agree with openyourmind1262 , the numbers don't lie; the empirical evidence is too strong. And if anyone would take the time to use a little critical thought instead of jumping on the "poor Jews" bandwagon (by design), they'd see the obvious b.s..

There is a deliberate agenda clouding this issue with emotionally charged propaganda driven distractions however they cannot trump the simple math and subsequent shenanagans in the mix that any 5th grader could look at and know the Auschwitz genocide by gas chambers claims simply don't add up.

heres another link for you to read that shows the numbers do add up

Of course you'll argue those figures, but see.... we've been down this road so many times.... you won't believe historical record.

Which other major genocides do you deny happened by the way - I ask out of curiosity? I take it you don't believe the D-Day landings happened either?

reply to post by neformore


@neformore

I never said they weren't persecuted; I asked "why" were they persecuted? It's an introspection question.

There simply isn't any empirical evidence that hold any water and those examples were pathetic. You really need to spend 45 minutes and watch the video below for detail if you have a half half a brain. But if you refuse from what I can remember off the top, there was no record of extra fuel it would take over the "non-death camps" (they used about the same "per capita"), there wasn't any storage found, the size of the crematoriums couldn't hold three people (18" x 18"), the time it would take was several hours and longer if there were multiple bodies some how crammed in there which was likely if they were "freshly brought in" as the rumor went (not skinny starved), and certainly not 30 minutes under any circumstance. The logistics of trying to move the bodies around, there was not "delivery system" or "venting system" to remove "poison gases:, there was no disposal of the ashes with bones or teeth found on any of the fields. The list goes on. Basically It's all a lie.

So dude, you're grabbing at straws. There's several YouTube videos but this one seems thorough and out of the 20 hours or so of all the ones I've watched and all the articles dozens of articles I've read, this one covers the above questions and your objections with reasonable explanations.

Now, that being said, there's a reason no one wants to explain observations like these. If there were flimsy, it wouldn't bother anybody. But because they are convincing, it scares the keepers of the lies and that is why people get so upset. So instead they whine like little children how "insensitive" but I'm sorry buckaroo, you have take off your Underoos to put on big boy pants sometime and face the music. Don't get mad at the messenger I only here to enlighten.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by EricChanning


Seen and heard all that before. Sorry and all that. You say there is no evidence, but actually there is lots of it, from the implementation of the Nuremberg laws, through to documented evidence recorded by the Nazi's, through to testimony from former Nazi's, through to records made by the allies when they entered the camps through to witness and survivor testimony. You just choose to ignore it because...? what? because you dislike jewish people? Sorry but thats just sad.

I'm hoping you're not American, because in 60 years time people or a similar mindset who dislike Americans will be arguing that 9/11 never happened.

I am curious, which other genocides do you deny and why?

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


Not 6 million jews.6 million in total. 2 million is a far cry from 6 million.

reply to post by neformore


@neformore. "Testimony" is not empirical evidence otherwise UFO, Big Foot, ghost, angels, santa claus and the boogieman would all be considered "real". People, especially under duress; make up and believe all kinds of b.s.

Speaking about 9/11 and scientific evidence and further investigations, it might interested you to check out what engineers, architects, various scientist and explosive experts are finding out about the official 9/11 official story. Speculation is the Mossad was behind it.

www.ae911truth.org

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by EricChanning


I see you conveniently sidestepped the other evidence I mentioned.

Let's not go off topic now, shall we?

You've still not answered my question about which other historical genocides you choose to deny and why?

reply to post by neformore


Not sure what you are inferring? My premise is based on whether or not Auschwitz Concentration Camp actually gassed people. I then backed my premise with the assertion of empirical evidence. Logically, if you look at the 55 million non-Jewish people that died during WW2 and the so-called six million "Jewish" people that died, calling the war specifically a "genocide" would not be relative to my premise since no single national, ethnic, racial or religious group with specifically effected.

Are you such [snip] that you can't see defining the whole of WW2 as simply about killing Jews? What an arrogant assertion such a claim would be and how disrespectful it is to the vast majority of "non-Jewish" victims?

And what makes it all the more of an abomination is how it has been use as a Geo-Political excuse by the Jewish people, (not the "relgious" peoples but the nationalist) as a way to extort reparations and build armies and kill other peoples since with extreme prejudice . As if the Palestinians or the Americans are indebted to them? My question to you that you (and any other idiot that cant see this b.s.) keep skipping is why the U.S. and the Palestinians deserve to take it in the ass? Because that just makes no sense to me at all.

Are you really that shallow that you can't see past the manipulation; the "invention" of the term 40 years later as a device propagated by a few well financed media owners to create a way to unite one group against another as "righteous"? Grow up and smell the coffee buckaroo!

reply to post by ohioriver


yea my grand father had told me and my father before me lots of messed up stories bout seeing mass graves, the ground bleeding and arms and legs and heads sticking up from the ground(he did have a funny story bout seeing an elephant take a # in africa though haah!). i know that of the 6million not all were jews. lots of PEOPLE died in ww2 not just jews. europe as a hole was burned and bombed to hell. that much is true. as for the details who knows as time gose on and more and more people who were alive for this die so dose the truth.

reply to post by Upthepunx


My dad and his four brothers all fought in WW2. He and my uncles were obsessed with talking about it as they all got older so I've heard a bunch of stories. Despite what they teach kids here in the U.S., American's killed more civilians than Germans and dropping those nukes those poor Japanese civilians, hardly killing any military and just wanting to show off our atom bomb; Truman was evil.

it was some sick # and completely unnecessary since they [the Japanese] were already trying to surrender once they learned the Russians were coming; who were fierce and really won the war for the Allies. It certainly wasn't the Americans. The only thing the war did for the U.S. is create a unnecessary military industrial complex for a few profiteers to terrorize the world for Jewish bankster profits.

You want to talk about "Genocide", look at what the Jews have done to Palestine Muslims and Russian Christians historically. Makes their b.s. "Holohoax" all the more of a joke. When are people going to get it and not believe everything they see on t.v.???

reply to post by EricChanning


Heres a good example of what I was inferring.

You know that no atom bombs were dropped on Japan in WW2, right?

Everything your hear, from Japan, in WW2, regarding the dropping of atomic weapons is a lie. Its made up. They used conventional incendiary weapons, the death toll wasn't so high. The whole thing was a sham dreamed up between the Japanese and the US to save face for the Japanese and frighten the Russians off.








Whats that? I'm talking rubbish? Well yes, I am, because the historical record clearly shows the atomic bombs, their development and their use, as well as the after effects of them.

And yet, if I apply the same logic as you apply to the holocaust to that event, suddenly things sound a little different don't they?

You chose to believe the historic record for one event in WW2, and yet completely refute another. You've fallen into a trap of your own making.

You see... you can't have it both ways. To do so would be hypocritical. You either trust the history of the time, or you don't.

Which leaves us with only one reason why you would choose to deny the holocaust, doesn't it?

reply to post by neformore


I am strictly debunking Auschwitz gas chambers based on the empirical evidence from both creditable scientist and historians. Auschwitz is the holy grail of the Holocaust myth so the historical revisionist have focused on it but there are a lot of other historical inaccuracies being taught.

I have a sixteen year old that loves history. He is being taught more propaganda based "history" than truth. Some schools teach children that the Christian Bible is true, others that the Koran is true, others that the Torah is true. I say they are all myths; just like the gas chambers in Auschwitz, was a myth.

And a Myth doesn't necessarily mean "not true" it's more of a metaphorical realization; an association. Like some hot chick in a Coca Cola commercial smiling at some guys who is drinking a Coke. The mind associates sex and the soft drink. It's marketing. It's a myth that a pretty girl is attracted to a guy because he drinks Coke but subconsciously, the guys associates the Coke with the pretty girl and bingo, buys Coke.

You buy the Holocaust story, hook line and sinker as absolute historical truth. Others say it's more propaganda to create an emotional response to the benefit of one group of people over another. No one is going to argue that ALL PEOPLE are persecuted by the "other side" in war.. So the number of Jews that died during the entire WW2 conflict is so ambiguous and a relatively small percentage of the whole, so to advertise the Holocaust and then lie about Auschwitz only creates skepticism about why it is being advertised when the empirical evidence simply does not support it. And it is this realization I challenge.

Why not talk about the 20 million Chinese or the 30 million Russians that died; why not talk about the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killing 99% citizens and little to no military? Why is the "Holocaust" such a big thing in the face of all the others? And why would the U.S. give the victims reparations? It makes no sense.

What you mean is that you don't like Jewish people.

It's as simple as that.

See, I'm not fixated on this - you are. You are the person desperately looking to find a reason why this couldn't have happened, and are trying to obfuscate it with other stuff.

Every other part of the historical record of WW2 isn't questioned. Only this.

Trying to justify it any other way is a joke. Especially by referencing other genocides in history and asking why no one discusses them. That premise is classic denial. The answer is that no one discusses them because no one denies them vehemently, in the same manner that no one would have discussed this issue if an agenda filled OP hadn't been written.

reply to post by neformore


I'm not a bigot so you can p*ss off with the implication. I don't know any one "Jewish" and even if I did, I wouldn't dislike them for being Jewish, I would however have an attitude if they felt like the were better than me by birthright or entitled to reparations for some phony con job that I had to pay for.

There's a series on Showtime called "The Untold Story of the United States" directed and produced by Oliver Stone. It comes on Monday nights and the sixth episode was last night. I believe you can watch it on YouTube or like or download from a torrent. A lot of b.s. being taught.

"Most" of history in the U.S. is propaganda; spun to brainwash kids to support alternative agendas and most people don't look past the b.s. until they are in college. Most of t.v. is programming to sell you the illusion of what happiness is to sell good and services.

After WW2, marketing companies created what is known as "Public Relations", which is the same thing as soft-selling "Propaganda". Sigmund Freud's nephew named "Edward Bernay".was the father of "Public Relations" en.wikipedia.org... . There's a BBC series called "The Century of the Self" topdocumentaryfilms.com...

You might also watch "Nineteen Eighty-Four" based on Orson Well'es famous book and learn what "thought crime" is. en.wikipedia.org...

I believe you are the one in denial. Do your homework, then comeback; after you've educated yourself with some basic understanding of how the world "actually" works, we visit some more.

reply to post by EricChanning


But... You obviously are.

Otherwise why would this be an issue? Which other genocides do you deny and why?

I'm not see you questioning Stalin's purges, The killing fields in Cambodia, the native American genocide, Japan in China, the ethic cleansing in Yugoslavia, the Zulu massacres.... You want me to see how the world works - well you're too late 'cause I know it all too well. It's a nasty place full of despicable people who do awful things, there's lots of genocides and things that have happened to all kinds of people and they aren't discussed by deniers like yourself.

But the one involving Jews in WW2.... That's a big problem apparently.

There is only one common denominator. It's right up there and in everyone's face and its all over the way you discuss the issue, even in your post here where you decry the idea.

reply to post by neformore


I see what you're saying. Why Jews? What got me interested in this was simply trying to understand the Palestinian/Iran thing that is happening right now. That brought up the "why" it's happening? Which led me to the history of Zionism and Theodor Herzl. Who come to find out denounced even being religiously Jewish BUT is considered the father of Zionism, which is only "culturally" Jewish".

So there is this big problem with Iran and Israel and talks about worrying about the Iranian's having nukes...etc. And I see Obama and Romney wearing these yarmulke and they aren't even Jewish paying respects to the Holocaust victims as the reason they support of Israel and the fact that we give Israel billions and we're broke.

So I googled it and their former president was on Bill Maher, Binyamin Netanyahu, was.bragging that the U.S. is Israel's b*tch. It just kind of rubbed me that the U.S. is anybody's b*tch. I mean, the guy was a colossal jerk and a liar with the whole Neo-Conservative movement (that's a different story, see "The Power of Nightmares" BBC documentary about them; a bunch of evil evil b*stards).

And then there are all these Christian friends that post all this religious stuff about being good Christians and some b.s. the bible says about protecting Israel and going to heaven or some such reward. Well, isn't that just convenient? (I'm not religious, actually, a little against ALL religions seeing it as the root of all evil as Richard Dawkins explains in his series, "The Root of All Evil").

So all these "Chrisian Zionist" (which is the majority of people in the U.S.) are okay with supporting the Israel Zionist, who aren't even traditionally religious since Herzl actually hated religious Jews. But the U.S. Evangelist run around with the noses up the butts because they are god's chosen people blah blah blah because a book the worship, written by Jews says so. Again, how convenient.

So, that's when I discovered these "historical revisionist" . I actually have two science degrees, so I'm pretty skeptical and evidence based in my observation of things. The whole "Auschwitz" thing caught my attention. At first, I thought was just some neo-nazi/white supremist b.s. but as it turned out, the evidence was pretty solid, so since Auschwich story is the holy grail of the Holocaust story and it's not true, it made me suspect of "why". That's when I ended up here and read 50 pages of long winded diatribes but I did learn some stuff. It was the interviews that really made me suspect too, they wouldn't stick to the evidence, instead turned it into some over poor me control dramas and kept getting off subject. So, why are the avoiding the empiracal evidence? And there are even some survivors that don't have pointed out it's mostly b.s. and they don't like what's going on in Israel and have come forward. And they get in big trouble and a lot of them are persecuted "not sticking with the story". I mean, talk about "persecution". It's actually a crime in several countries. Why is that? Again, makes me very suspect and I probably wouldn't care that much if things weren't going to h*ll in a hand basket.

So, in my mind, the answer is its keeps people feeling sorry for Jews who use it to gain support and exploit really stupid Americans. So it's not that I'm against anything but people's stupidity to buy all this crap and how it affects what is going on today. Make sense?

Nope. Not at all.

You claim to have two science degrees and yet you ignore the evidence presented in front of you.

The story of the persecution of the jews in Nazi Germany stems from Hitlers childhood, and from the moment he rose to a position of Authority - initially within the NSDAP and then when he became Chancellor, after which he enshrined his polices in law. Those laws are fact. The ghettos are fact. The forced relocation of jews to the camps of Sobibor, Treblinka, Majdanek, Chelmno, Maly Trostenets and Belzec and Auschwitz-Birkenau are fact. The executions at Babi Yar are fact. The Posen Speeches are fact....

So many facts, yet you chose to deny the evidence in front of you.

Thats damn poor science.

reply to post by neformore


I am again basing it strictly on Auschwitz being a distortion and the record of deaths being greatly exaggerated. It's not about persecution or relocation or subjective testimonies or cherry picked history or anything to do with Hitler. Those things are not based on "science" or "scientific method". That's not how science works.

History is not a science. Chemical analysis of concrete that allegedly had a specific poisonous gas can be scientifically analyzed (and was). The physics behind the time and energy it takes to cremate a body can based can be scientifically analyzed (and was). The mere logistics of the hearsay can be scientifically analyzed against "known" control group (and was). All failed. All were lies. All were validated by records and intercept status reports.

I have a bachelor in chemistry and a bachelors in microbiology and did one year of graduate work in biochemistry and molecular genetics. I worked as a genetic engineer at a UT Health and Science in Dallas as a research tech my first year out of college. I have been a consumer packaged good's development chemist for over 20 years. I am 50 years old. My expertise is industrial and institutional chemical compounding, sanitation, nfection control and environmental sustainable cleaning systems. If you don't believe me, I'll share my LinkedIn Profile. And you?