Get Your Permit: Silver Iodide Weather Modification is REAL

reply to post by OzWeatherman


i am interested and intruiged by what you say, so you're telling me when i see a plane releasing a trail from the back in blue skies and it stays behind the aircraft, stops momentarily, then more is released and observed after 10 minutes this small trail from this very high altitude aircraft has became maybe 100x larger, this is not a cloud? which is precisely what i thought.

as mentioned cloud seeding is not taking place in clear sky so then how do i see passenger jets going through clear sky releasing a trail that dissolves with the jets movement and remains at a constant size and these smaller jets release trails that stay in the air and get larger and larger until basically there is a silver lining over the whole sky?

Originally posted by steven barnes
with global warming being a large debate, won't play around with the weather cause such WARMING? moisture requires alot of energy to heat it thus taking energy (heat) from naturally warmer parts, changing the energetic variables and energy share?

It does actually have an affect. When all the flights were grounded for a couple of days after 9/11 the diurnal temperature variance (the difference between the maximum and minimum temps) for most of the USA were some of the biggets that were recorded for years. The reason was,w ith the lack of contrails in the sky, the incoming long wave solar radiation reached the ground without much being reflected by ice based clouds, and during the night, the outgoing long wave stuff wast trapped near the surface by these clouds. The same thing ocurrs with natural clouds. If you have a cloudy night, the minimum temps are usually warmer than they would be if you had a clear ngiht

Originally posted by steven barnes
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

i am interested and intruiged by what you say, so you're telling me when i see a plane releasing a trail from the back in blue skies and it stays behind the aircraft, stops momentarily, then more is released and observed after 10 minutes this small trail from this very high altitude aircraft has became maybe 100x larger, this is not a cloud? which is precisely what i thought.

That is not what I am saying. Im saying that the end product of the burning of aviation fuel is water and dust. Water vapour thrust into a super cooled environment sublimates directly into ice crystals. Like all clouds at the crusing altitude of planes, these clouds consist of ice crystals, which in meterological terms, is reprted as cirrus clouds

Due to high wind speeds and saturation (I take it you still havent looked it up due to your reply) the clouds are able to spread and saturate the surrounding environment creating a larger trail. Really is this too hard to understand? Just ebcause a cloud becomes larger, does not mean it is falling (again please deny ignorance and research cloud mechanics and basic meteorology)

as mentioned cloud seeding is not taking place in clear sky so then how do i see passenger jets going through clear sky releasing a trail that dissolves with the jets movement and remains at a constant size and these smaller jets release trails that stay in the air and get larger and larger until basically there is a silver lining over the whole sky?

1. Cloud seeding has nothing to do with contrails

2. Cloud seeding is a release of a chemical in clouds, and contrails is a release from an engine of an airplane, and can appear in clear sky.

3. Passenger planes do not seed clouds

4. Cloud seeding is done at lower altitudes then contrails form


I still fail to see how you do not understand this

[edit on 19/7/2010 by OzWeatherman]

Originally posted by steven barnes
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

i am interested and intruiged by what you say, so you're telling me when i see a plane releasing a trail from the back in blue skies and it stays behind the aircraft, stops momentarily, then more is released and observed after 10 minutes this small trail from this very high altitude aircraft has became maybe 100x larger, this is not a cloud? which is precisely what i thought.

as mentioned cloud seeding is not taking place in clear sky so then how do i see passenger jets going through clear sky releasing a trail that dissolves with the jets movement and remains at a constant size and these smaller jets release trails that stay in the air and get larger and larger until basically there is a silver lining over the whole sky?

The atmosphere is not some uniform soup like entity. Nor do all the airplanes up there fly at the exact same altitude either.

You do realize that jet engines are adding water to the air
And that same air is very very cold.

So sometimes its just going to be so cold that it will freeze into cirrus. What is so sinister about cirrus clouds? And yes, sometimes enough aircraft can add their own cirrus, because the same conditions that can make contrails persist, also are the exact same conditions for natural cirrus to occur too.

I went hiking in Colorado this summer, and after reaching a certain elevation, there were these white crystalline type substance all covering the ground together and inches to feet deep in places. But it was sunny, and was summer time, so could it have been ice or snow?

reply to post by firepilot


What kind of question is that? Am i scared of street grids? You're attitude and big man behind a computer facade is hilarious dude. Do jets on normal commercial routes make square grid patterns covering a specific area? Of course not. Yes, jets cross each other's paths. You got that part correct. I live near an international airport and see the traffic daily. Often these trails are NOT on normal flight plans. Commercial airliners do not have routes that are going to form straight grids lines all at relatively the same altitude and at the same time. If, so the grids would be there every day. The trails are formed by military craft imo.

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
AERIAL CHEM DUMPING IS REAL !!!! 1/5th of TEXAS IS ROUTINELY SPRAYED with silver iodide by air plane.

------------------

IT HAPPENS

AIR PLANES OFTEN drop MASSIVE quantities of SILVER IODIDE, TRIMETHYL ALUMINUM, BARIUM, and PROPANE, into the SKY over large areas of North America, through state sponsored WEATHER MODIFICATION programs.

PERIOD.

-----------------

I wish to think that most of us here at ATS agree with the above.
What was your point again?

(As far as the video you mention of the Lockheed tri-jet spraying, I suspect that is a CGI video.)

reply to post by Sri Oracle


OP...I daresay there ARE cloud "seeding" programs....NOT secret, NOT covert...BUT, also, they certainly don't occur EVERY DAY...and NOT at 30,000 feet.

You stir up the "chemmies"...they don't understand, but now you've riled 'em...

ANYWAY, if you wanna talk about the CADMIUM, BARIUM, or (insert your favorite reviled heavy metal HERE), then a place like THIS is putting out far, far, far MORE material and nasty stuff than a few dozen puny airplanes.... :shk:

reply to post by firepilot


i do understand it but what im saying is

1. there are passenger jets that release trails that disappear

2. there are another jet that releases a trail that does not (if these are seeders then it is always a very specific type of aircraft that i will capture on video as they are very frequent)

3. the jet that does not, the trail stays there indefinatly (because i dont have patience to wait for longer than 40 minutes of observation)

4. when im saying the trail is dropping, i can physically see the trail moving downwards now is this just an illusion of the fact that its spreading because vapour, wind and cold = ice to form and continues to intesify developing more ice, to me you can see when clouds are lower and higher and this definatly appears to be getting closer (which id presume it would fall due to the chemicals beings heavier than water vapour, if of course this chemical is not silver iodide)

5. even if it is trails from water vapour, why is water vapour then emitted in bursts because surely this vapour would come from engine use which is surely constant and therefore would not appear in bursts UNLESS OF COURSE what your saying is the upper atmosphere changes so frequenctly that this effect also takes place, which again leads me to think which is it so precise rather than being quite erratic in its control.

it may also be interesting to know i am from england

[edit on 19-7-2010 by steven barnes]

reply to post by steven barnes


steven barnes, let's look at these questions from the perspective and experience of a LONG TIME airline pilot, shall we??

That would be little ole' me, BTW...

1. there are passenger jets that release trails that disappear

Yes, but....right off the bat, the use of the term "release" is a misnomer.

The contrails FORM (when conditions are suitable for their formation) as a result of the disturbance to the airmass as the airplane encounters it.

2. there are another jet that releases [edit in--I say "makes"] a trail that does not (if these are seeders then it is always a very specific type of aircraft that i will capture on video as they are very frequent)

Whoa, big fella! Hang on, what?

You can tell the "type"...to include make and model, when they are ~6-7 miles overhead? Good telephoto lenses, huh?

3. the jet that does not, the trail stays there indefinatly (because i dont have patience to wait for longer than 40 minutes of observation)

You're going to see different 'linger' times on different days...the atmosphere is constantly changing...even hour to hour, and definitely with altitude too.

BUT...this thread is REALLY about something else entirely, isn't it???

Still, soldiering on for the moment....

4. when im saying the trail is dropping, i can physically see the trail moving downwards now is this just an illusion...

Stopping you there, because you begin to ramble.

YES! It IS an illusion....as you watch the airplane over, and continue toward YOUR horizon...it is an illusion that makes it appear to be lower in the sky.

IT IS NOT.

Finally, the crux of the misunderstandings, and a lesson or twenty-five in meterology will better answer this:

5. even if it is trails from water vapour, why is water vapour then emitted in bursts because surely this vapour would come from engine use which is surely constant and therefore would not appear in bursts ...

Stop!~!!~!!

The water is...get this...ALREADY IN THE AIR!

The engines aren't spitting out water! (Well, not much....but that's not to worry, it's so little).

Read about it, study the science of contrails...you can Google them, it's easier than trying to explain here, and it's off topic anyhow....

Almost forgot....ever flown on an airliner?? Been in turbulence? Know what causes it??

You might wish to research that, too.

Anyway, the air is NOT always smooth, and NOT always stable...and it is NOT homogenous.

it may also be interesting to know i am from england

I addressed the huge amount of air traffic overhead Great Britain in another "chemtrail" (ahem) thread, some months ago...darned if I can find it now, though....I hope someone else might???






[edit on 19 July 2010 by weedwhacker]

it's all very well being condescending, but as you say a plane appearing smaller as it moves away because of the horizon doesn't mean a "trail, cloud, vapour, seed" is flying away from me and is above me and getting larger, that came out of an aircraft that always appears to be the same variety of aircraft in a controlled manner does not explain anything to me. I understand that trails are created from heating the vapour that exists all around us and the cooling of this vapour can then form clouds, also that when silver iodide is mixed with cooling conditions and air that this can create dense looking clouds, these things still dont seem to clean up some of the occurences im clearly seeing.

more precisely explain the CONTROLLED BURSTS OF WHAT YOUR EITHER SAYING IS WATER VAPOUR OR CLOUD SEEDING (for i dont see how you would release bursts to create the apperence of water vapour from a jet rather than a constant apperence of vapour)

[edit on 19-7-2010 by steven barnes]

[edit on 19-7-2010 by steven barnes]

Originally posted by TexasTea
reply to post by firepilot

 

What kind of question is that? Am i scared of street grids? You're attitude and big man behind a computer facade is hilarious dude. Do jets on normal commercial routes make square grid patterns covering a specific area? Of course not. Yes, jets cross each other's paths. You got that part correct. I live near an international airport and see the traffic daily. Often these trails are NOT on normal flight plans. Commercial airliners do not have routes that are going to form straight grids lines all at relatively the same altitude and at the same time. If, so the grids would be there every day. The trails are formed by military craft imo.

So what aviation knowledge do you base it on? I am guessing none.
Funny how anyone who knows anything about aviation, does not get upset about aircraft contrails that intersect.

Yes, jet aircraft can make grid type patterns, why is this so hard to understand? Have you ever looked at an instrument navigation high altitude chart? Have you looked any kind of aircraft navigation chart?

Aircraft are constantly criss crossing each other, there can sometimes be thousands of airplanes aloft. And the way that many aircraft up there navigate, there are areas where it can look like a grid, with multiple aircraft on N/S routes, or E/W routes, or just however their routes intersect.

There is no such thing as "normal" flight patterns, there is just the routes that they use. Nor does living near an airport have anything to do with it either, other than aircraft can be overflying that navigational aid at the airport.

flightaware.com...

reply to post by steven barnes

It is not water vapor and it is not cloud seeding. It is frozen water. Tiny ice crystals. The same thing that natural cirrus clouds are made of. It is not "controlled bursts", it is changes in the air. The air is not exactly the same everywhere. Look at this video of WWII bombers. Notice what happens to the contrails at around :40. Now, were the bomber pilots starting and stopping their engines? No. Where they spraying something off and on? No. Their contrails are intermittent because they flying through different "pockets" of air.


[edit on 7/19/2010 by Phage]

Originally posted by steven barnes
it's all very well being condescending, but as you say a plane appearing smaller as it moves away because of the horizon doesn't mean a "trail, cloud, vapour, seed" is flying away from me and is above me and getting larger, that came out of an aircraft that always appears to be the same variety of aircraft in a controlled manner does not explain anything to me. I understand that trails are created from heating the vapour that exists all around us and the cooling of this vapour can then form clouds, also that when silver iodide is mixed with cooling conditions and air that this can create dense looking clouds, these things still dont seem to clean up some of the occurences im clearly seeing.

more precisely explain the CONTROLLED BURSTS OF WHAT YOUR EITHER SAYING IS WATER VAPOUR OR CLOUD SEEDING (for i dont see how you would release bursts to create the apperence of water vapour from a jet rather than a constant apperence of vapour)

[edit on 19-7-2010 by steven barnes]

[edit on 19-7-2010 by steven barnes]

Like I said, the atmosphere is not some uniform soup, and you will get variation in temperature, humidity, and also differing movement of air. Air also cools with a rise in temperature too.

A plane can just fly into a small area that either has slightly cooler air or possibly more moisture. The atmosphere does have variation right over your head, just like you can see isolated clouds, instead of a layer, or somewhere it can be clear, yet a a mile away can be completely foggy.

If all the air up there was exactly the same temperature and humidity, with no vertical movement to it, we would not have weather.


[edit on 19-7-2010 by firepilot]

reply to post by steven barnes


Neither the clouds, NOR the contrails, 'descend'...

...watch them sped up, in time-lapse:



Check around for other video examples....

Go out, learn study and educate yourself, please.

I'm not sure of your point. Cloud seeing is done, it is a well-known fact that few would contest.

Some facts you state are not correct according to the official Texas state site for their data on cloud seeding. --And that is exactly what they call it, "cloud seeding."

You claim that one/fifth of Texas is sprayed. Not according to the official cite. There are about areas in the state that lack adequate rainfall for an effective crop production. Most are in the west and northwest part of the state and a few in the extreme south. No spraying is done in the southwest, dryest, part of the state because few row crops are producted there..

Texas has 254 counties. I count about 32 within the boundries of the spray regions. That is far less than one-fifth of the state.

The regions actually count the number of and the SIZE of clouds sprayed. In any given year of the data shown, over 90% of the seeding is done between May and September, the growing season.

If you wanna make chemtrails outta that data, be my guest.

I have lived in central Texas for over thirty years, I've seen some strange things in the air during that time, but never a contrail that looked like anything but a contrail, and I know a bit about planes. And that video you mentioned of a Lockheed tri-star jet spraying looks phony to me, a CGI.

yes maybe im not choosing my words correctly, now we seem to be getting somewhere to perhaps uncovering mis-judgements which is always good as words are inherently flawed due to experience being subjective and words being set whilst words are tagged to experience (memory).

now are these world war 2 bombers jet's now from my observation it seems to be that they are although there is this

"Arado 234 Blitz (210) - In late 1944 it was the world's first jet bomber. An advanced single-seat light bomber, at 460mph it was almost impossible to intercept, but it came much too late to affect the war." this is a german aircraft which by this infomation says to me the other bombers are no jet's, this makes what im seeing slightly different because im seeing what appear to be jet aircraft

maybe again the term jet maybe refering to the aircraft's shape rather than the engine

[edit on 19-7-2010 by steven barnes]

reply to post by steven barnes

Internal cumbustion engines produce contrails for the same reasons jet engines do. They pump hot, moist air into a very cold atmosphere. This begins the process of condensation and freezing into ice crystals.


[edit on 7/19/2010 by Phage]

reply to post by steven barnes


Not to seem rude, but....

Your questions are straying. The scope of THIS thread isn't in the direction you're headed.

Do you have Public Library nearby? YOu could learn more there than spending hours on "Google"...and more than here, too.

Look for the book "Bomber Boys" about WWII B-17s. The movie, you might rent..."Memphis Belle"...it's entertaining, not just informative.

I could go on, but you know what to do....

So, how much backpedaling will we see here by the ever present "denialists"?
So, we have spraying going on. We have HAD spraying going on. It is a BIG operation.
Some of the pilots here have not noticed....but, we are supposed to trust them NOW to tell us, um, what is REALLY going on.

Chemicals sprayed into the atmosphere. I think they call that "chemtrailing", don't they?