What If Adam and Eve Didn't Sin?

Originally posted by taccj9903
If people were without sin and naked would they only live in warm climates, or was the entire earth meant to be warm before sin entered the picture?

interesting contemplations for a thread. first, thanks for sharing.
second .... the above quote puts a new old twist on the global warming thing.

If people lived forever on earth wouldn't they eventually see and do everything there is to do and get bored with it?

i'm assuming no. or else god was either wrong or misinformed, or not well informed.


End Transmission,
ET

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


I wonder if they were to be limited to earth only or if space travel would have been allowed. I just ask because eternity is a long time, if you lived for an eternity here on earth do you think you would have the desire to up and leave this planet?

Originally posted by Gakus
After humanity gained the knowledge of what is "right and wrong" god allowed mankind to exist because he saw the good in our souls, our hearts.

That is why he gave us a set of laws AFTERWARDS to live our lives by because we found out what is "right or wrong."

God didn't make man-kind demanding we follow his path, we were given free will. We follow our own path, God just happens to know where that path will lead.

Let me ask you this. In a war isn't one innocent life to many to be killed in your eyes?(if it isn't you need to gain a bit of humanity) perhaps in god's eyes one innocent soul condemned to hell is to much?

He allows us to live our own lives and CHOOSE the path we wish to follow. He gave us free-will for a reason.

Thank you for the response! I will try my best to understand your point and answer.

To answer a quick question you posted, yes, one innocent life is far too many to be killed! Now...

In you post, you gave reasons why God would continue to let us live, but it did not answer that fundamental first question. The best analogy I can think of is putting yourself in God's shoes.

You have an idea for creation. However, you know that if you go through with it, billions will be tortured forever. You think about this. Do I want to create a world where this will end up occuring?

In my own, honest opinion, I would rather create nothing at all if I knew a huge amount of it would spend eternity suffering.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by Hitotsumami]

Originally posted by taccj9903
reply to post by gordonwest

 

Weren't they already on earth?

No. It does explain in the bible, that (they) - God, Eve + Adam, Satan were In the garden (Heaven) -

Eating from the Tree Of Knowledge - meaning that Eve + Adam "knew-understanding-gain information about 'how to'" So, with that "New Understanding of Information of Life", Eve and Adam were sent too Earth.

reply to post by gordonwest


I guess I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that the garden was in heaven.

Originally posted by Hitotsumami

Originally posted by Gakus
After humanity gained the knowledge of what is "right and wrong" god allowed mankind to exist because he saw the good in our souls, our hearts.

That is why he gave us a set of laws AFTERWARDS to live our lives by because we found out what is "right or wrong."

God didn't make man-kind demanding we follow his path, we were given free will. We follow our own path, God just happens to know where that path will lead.

Let me ask you this. In a war isn't one innocent life to many to be killed in your eyes?(if it isn't you need to gain a bit of humanity) perhaps in god's eyes one innocent soul condemned to hell is to much?

He allows us to live our own lives and CHOOSE the path we wish to follow. He gave us free-will for a reason.

Thank you for the response! I will try my best to understand your point and answer.

To answer a quick question you posted, yes, one innocent life is far too many to be killed! Now...

In you post, you gave reasons why God would continue to let us live, but it did not answer that fundamental first question. The best analogy I can think of is putting yourself in God's shoes.

You have an idea for creation. However, you know that if you go through with it, billions will be tortured forever. You think about this. Do I want to create a world where this will end up occuring?

In my own, honest opinion, I would rather create nothing at all if I knew a huge amount of it would spend eternity suffering.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by Hitotsumami]

I completely understand what you are trying to get across, thou I will admit it is indeed a hard question to answer. I can only venture a guess.

Personally IF it were me, I still would go through with it anyways. A few years of torture for a life time in paradise? far worth it. I should inform you, I personally believe in the kindness and greatness in our hearts, I personally believe there's far more good on this planet than evil (tho I'm sure some would disagree) that's completely a guessing game tho.

Again a very hard question to answer, but IMO something well worth it.

Originally posted by taccj9903
reply to post by Esoteric Teacher

 

I wonder if they were to be limited to earth only or if space travel would have been allowed. I just ask because eternity is a long time, if you lived for an eternity here on earth do you think you would have the desire to up and leave this planet?

i hope they would have been able to leave to travel. but if our star goes supernova or becomes a black hole i would like to think they may want to be a little further away.

poor islam. no wonder they are angry. hard to pray on your knees facing and bowing mecca when it is over their head. wonder if this will still be in practice when the sun is going supernova or black hole?

karma, science and suicide bombers just don't mix well, i guess.

yep yep,
ET

[edit on 27-6-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

reply to post by Hitotsumami


www.remnantofgod.org...


ok i couldn't find the exact url i was looking at before, but this has some interesting interpretation of verses about hell.

Originally posted by Gakus

I completely understand what you are trying to get across, thou I will admit it is indeed a hard question to answer. I can only venture a guess.

Personally IF it were me, I still would go through with it anyways. A few years of torture for a life time in paradise? far worth it. I should inform you, I personally believe in the kindness and greatness in our hearts, I personally believe there's far more good on this planet than evil (tho I'm sure some would disagree) that's completely a guessing game tho.

Again a very hard question to answer, but IMO something well worth it.

Thanks for responding! I think we might have misunderstood each other somewhere, however...

A few years of torture for a life time in paradise? far worth it.

I was under the impression that Hell is infinite and everlasting. If you can show me otherwise, I would appreciate it!

Thanks again for responding.

Kind regards

Originally posted by taccj9903
reply to post by gordonwest

 

I guess I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that the garden was in heaven.

I have read the bible, it does explain about the bible, as I am responding 'about' the bible.

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
reply to post by Hitotsumami

 

www.remnantofgod.org...


ok i couldn't find the exact url i was looking at before, but this has some interesting interpretation of verses about hell.

Oh, thank you so much! This relates to my discussion with Gakus. I will read over it and post my opinion soon!

Kind regards

Originally posted by gordonwest

Originally posted by taccj9903
reply to post by gordonwest

 

I guess I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that the garden was in heaven.

I have read the bible, it does explain about the bible, as I am responding 'about' the bible.

Then can you at least provide some verses to back your claim? I am not a bible expert by any means but I've never heard that the garden of eden was actually in heaven.

Originally posted by taccj9903

Originally posted by gordonwest

Originally posted by taccj9903
reply to post by gordonwest

 

I guess I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that the garden was in heaven.

I have read the bible, it does explain about the bible, as I am responding 'about' the bible.

Then can you at least provide some verses to back your claim? I am not a bible expert by any means but I've never heard that the garden of eden was actually in heaven.

I am just trying to have a friendly debate about the topic that we are (typing) about.

If you have never read the bible, then how can you understand the bible?

Originally posted by Hitotsumami

Originally posted by Gakus

I completely understand what you are trying to get across, thou I will admit it is indeed a hard question to answer. I can only venture a guess.

Personally IF it were me, I still would go through with it anyways. A few years of torture for a life time in paradise? far worth it. I should inform you, I personally believe in the kindness and greatness in our hearts, I personally believe there's far more good on this planet than evil (tho I'm sure some would disagree) that's completely a guessing game tho.

Again a very hard question to answer, but IMO something well worth it.

Thanks for responding! I think we might have misunderstood each other somewhere, however...

A few years of torture for a life time in paradise? far worth it.

I was under the impression that Hell is infinite and everlasting. If you can show me otherwise, I would appreciate it!

Thanks again for responding.

Kind regards

What I meant by "a few years of torture" was living on earth, not hell. Sorry for the confusion.

Did Adam have an navel? i only say this because that would mean he had a mother right? so who was the mother an who was the father? and were they married? if not Adam was illegitimate! so it looks like Adam wasn't the first sinner lol

Originally posted by Gakus

Originally posted by taccj9903
reply to post by Gakus

 

I edited my post please re-read and please stop with the insults.

You are attempting to bait me into a troll discussion which is utterly disgusting.

Any mods reviewing this topic I beg of you, stop this troll in his tracks.

I'm not even familiar with what a troll discussion is, however, you did not answer my question. How is the difference in disobeying god by eating from the tree any different than committing a sin (disobeying god or breaking god's laws)? The point being, sin is sin, and it sounds like you subscribe to the idea that the reward for sin is hell. So if I commit adultery I go to hell, if I murder I go to hell, if I break the sabbath I go to hell, if I eat of a tree god told me not to I go to hell. Am I understanding this correctly?

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
reply to post by Hitotsumami

 

www.remnantofgod.org...


ok i couldn't find the exact url i was looking at before, but this has some interesting interpretation of verses about hell.

I scanned through this! I read a lot of the passages provided, and the interpretation seem pretty fair, in my opinion! It DOES make more sense for a person to 'stop existing' rather than spend eternity in Hell.

However, I have some problems with this! I hope you hear me out!

1. God's meaning about Hell and 'eternal punishment' has been quite twisted over the years! Most people I know today see Hell as burning in fire forever. Why would God allow his word to be misinterpreted? Would he not make sure it is clear so no controversy is caused?

2. This does not QUITE answer the original fundamental question. Put yourself in God's shoes. If you knew billions of your creations would die, would you create any of it at all? I would not.

I can theoretically create better outcomes than what God has provided in the Bible, and if I can think of them, and God knows everything, he obviously thought of them too!

An example would be simply creating only the humans that would end up in Heaven, since he already knows which will and will not be. God is All Powerful, so he should be able to do this!

Thanks again for your post!

Kind regards

Originally posted by DCDAVECLARKE
Did Adam have an navel? i only say this because that would mean he had a mother right? so who was the mother an who was the father? and were they married? if not Adam was illegitimate! so it looks like Adam wasn't the first sinner lol

That is a great question, I never thought of that before.

reply to post by Gakus


Why don't you just answer the question?