Aliens, *Snip* they are demons. Prove me wrong.

If there really are aliens up there, looking down here, i feel sorry for them! I mean come on! Aliens are evil... you know what, OP is prolly right about that one, a race of aliens out there will be evil. I guarantee you that there is a good one too, and prollys a few rather neutral ones.

The universe is vast, and here on ATS most believe that it is filled with countless beings on countless worlds. So lets not say they're ALL evil, some might be, others might not be.

I'm an average guy, i don't want to be stereotyped, lets give our lil traveling friends the same courtesy

reply to post by FOXMULDER147

If you went to youtube and looked up demon possession you might
end up crying when you saw the pitiful way its victims have had to
suffer. Many of us have NEVER seen what we'd call a ghost etc..
and the alien stuff..well..kind of hard to imagine something of an
entirely different physical makeup popping up where ever it pleases
without suffering the effects of exposure to our viruses and bacteria.
I have a book with many stories of the odd and mysterious.. in one instance some guy snapped a photo of an odd dark
glob/light coming out of a lake I think..it happened so quickly and he
barely got a photo before it was gone. At some point he thought he
saw a face inside the dark thing...hummmm..does that sound like
an extraterrestrial encounter? seems to me to be more of a spriritual
phenomena. I like most of us can only guess what's going on. Let's
just hope we don't find out the hard way.

reply to post by njl51


I doubt there are even a few credible "possession" videos on youtube. Anyone can post anything on youtube.

reply to post by Loken68


To prove you wrong you first have to prove something which you have not done a bit.

reply to post by I AM LEGION


I made a statement. You have to prove it wrong. That's how the game is played. If I said the theory Evolution is correct then you would offer evidence to prove be wrong then I would rebuttal you.

The topic is: I claim they are the same. You can't prove me wrong.

Originally posted by Loken68
reply to post by I AM LEGION

 

I made a statement. You have to prove it wrong. That's how the game is played. If I said the theory Evolution is correct then you would offer evidence to prove be wrong then I would rebuttal you.

The topic is: I claim they are the same. You can't prove me wrong.

Actually if you make a statement, you should back it up with evidence.

If you came up with a theory of evolution, you'd be asked to provide evidence to support your statement. That's really how the game is played.

I can just as easily turn it around by saying
aliens are NOTE demons. Prove ME wrong.

We're stuck at a stalemate since neither side is willing to provide evidence to support their claims.

reply to post by Loken68

The topic is: I claim they are the same. You can't prove me wrong.

Well this type of topic is entirely pointless. I might as well come in and say that UFOs are giant Flying Space Penguins all named Nigel - now prove me wrong. Well you can't.

UFOs are by definition unidentified so no one can prove what they are or what they aren't as the only criteria something has to fit to be a UFO is that it must be flying and unidentified.

What this amounts to is an assertion of faith, you believe UFOs are demonic and not aliens - well okay that's fine - but it isn't based on any evidence (and for the record NEITHER is the alien position). A position that is based on faith is very difficult to defeat because faith often ignores facts and evidence in favor of belief and baseless assertions. It's even more impossible to prove wrong because the subject matter we are dealing with is unidentified BY DEFINITION.

In short, this thread = FAIL.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

LMAO! For all your threats to go snitch to the mods about not conforming to your threads rules, you yourself have ran roughshod over ATS and have made extra work for the moderators!
(not that I care you broke the rules, I just find the hypocrisy amusing.)

Anyways, to stay on topic, You think...

Demons are very clever. They know that they can sway peoples faith in GOD by manifesting themselves in the form of visitors from other planets somewhere else in the universe. Since the bible made no reference to the possibility that extra-solar planets exist, and furthermore no mention of the life that may be inhabiting them, there presence here as such will be the last straw for people on the fence pondering the reality of Christian beliefs! If demons were to just show up in there normal form to turn lights on and off and make bumps in the night it might lend some credibility to the existence of GOD. They don't want that, so they fly flying saucers...

And you want someone to tell you your wrong out of arrogance that your right and everyone else is dead wrong when the nature of argument can not be proved nor disproved!

I'm interested in understanding your motivation to craft such debate!

Although I'm 100% positive I know the answer!

Christians have a hard time dealing with their own doubts...Which forces them to lash out at anything that flys in the face of what they hold dear to their hearts. Evolution/Earth the center of the universe/World is flat...ect.

Rest assured someday, maybe not in your lifetime the question you seek answered will be! You may even be right! You may also have wasted allot of time subscribing to something altogether made up out of a desire to profit from and control men.



[edit on 6-6-2010 by Niccawhois]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


In this thread I have supplied the a comparison to demons and aliens and you will evidently read the entire thread. You only read the cover and back of the book and formulate your own understanding of the subject. So once again against my better judgment and going against the rules I will repost and add similarities at this much later point in the thread and risk another warning or removal. Sorry mods but you have to see my point.

HOW THEY OPERATE

I. Examine the fear factor: most people would find it equally abhorrent to either be abducted from their bedrooms by aliens and to have various traumatizing experiments/molestations perpetrated against them, or to be possessed by a demon or discarnate, in either case to be powerless to stop the intrusive activities. It is observable, at least from having interviewed many percipients, and having read the UFO literature, that many percipients would rather admit to alien interference than to consider demon possession, the former offering some modicum of contact, perhaps with higher intelligence (in the extreme, perhaps, as Harvard psychiatrist John Mack, M.D. and a long list of others opine, contact with messengers of God), while the latter denotes unclean, morally corrupting contact (and perhaps even cooperation) with the ultimate evil force in the universe.

II. We can at least partially judge these entities by their affects on people.

III. Those who are abducted report never being the same again, as if their alien abductors were always nearby or, in some cases, within them (much like an infection or a possession state). Dr. William J. Baldwin, author of Spirit Releasement Therapy: A Technique Manual, assisted by his wife, Rev. Judith Baldwin, often refer to dark entities like this:

They are simply bacteria, no more, no less. They are another life form with a different purpose. What right do bacteria have to join our bodies? The Baldwins' statement infers consciousness as inherent with these entities.

IV. Many modern researchers are now saying that abductees are finding their experiences more and more acceptable, even spiritually uplifting and transformational. Social worker John Carpenter, director of abduction research for the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), has noted a more accepting attitude in Contactees/abductees. Dr. John Mack says many abductees come to love their alien captors. Author Whitley Strieber admits to his love and longing for the creatures (which had previously subjected him, without anesthetic, to medical-like experiments, including nasal and anal probes). In the case of spirit/demon possession, a large measure of the entities' success in the host depends on the host's cooperation. If the host finds power, profit or even love as a result of the visitors within (once they are recognized), then the host will naturally find the visitors presence more and more acceptable, often even transformational in the broadest sense, to the point of developing a love for and/or a dependency on them. (The Stockholm Syndrome, recognized in victims of terrorist-like captivity, is seemingly overlooked by these researchers.)

V. Often, the ETs and spirit entities present themselves to percipients in identical ways.

VI. There are many cases where percipients are unable to separate the identities of these entities as being one or the other, ET or demon, which suggests that the entities, at least some of them, may be one and the same. (Conversely, many percipients confuse entities' identities with ETs and angels, as well.)

VII. In addition, both sets of entities are or seem capable of:

1. telepathic communication

2. hypnotic / altered state induction, regression, suggestion

3. hiding, both in the sense of successfully convincing the

host /percipient to deny their existence AND at convincing a

huge portion of the public that they don't exist. Also, both are capable of hiding in the physical sense, as well, within the layered psyche and often within the physical or quantum or interstitial body of the host.

4. reprisal when discovered, often in equal measure to the level of emotional distress caused by the discovery

5. time travel

6. obtaining some measure of physical and mental control over their subjects for extended periods

7. cajoling, manipulating, or in some way forcing their subjects to perform acts against the subjects' wills, including forced sexual intercourse (rape), violent crime, and suicide. The Solar Temple cult could be an extreme example of this concept: Leader Luc Jouret claimed contact with ETs, and said the only way to go to their planet was through the Glory of Fire, which resulted in the fiery deaths and in some cases murder of all cult members in 1994 and more recently.

8. physically moving their subjects from one location to another through various means, including a compromise of the percipient's free will through mind control / manipulation

9. interacting with percipients/hosts at the soul level

10. establishing highly organized, hierarchic networks capable of interacting with and controlling to some degree vast numbers of minions and human beings simultaneously

11. according to Dr. Gregory Little, a psychologist and UFO researcher/author, these entities, at least the ones who do harm to human percipients, enter or manifest into the human perceptual levels from the lower frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum (per his book, Grand Illusions)

12. interrupting the transitory journey of the soul after death. Examples can be found in the Bible, in the book Matrix II (per the Nexus Group), various works by Maurice Rawlings (To Hell and Back), et al.

13. claiming to represent the Light, i.e. a higher spiritual power, even though the literal translation of the name Lucifer can be Light Bearer.

14. Neither set of entities ever occupied human bodies of their own.

15. Either set of entities can or could have been abducted or possessed. Without going into great detail, it is convenient to think of the possibilities like this: Demons, or fallen angels, are said to have fallen from grace, even though they were originally created by God. In effect, they may have been influenced, even possessed and/or abducted, by Lucifer at the time of the Great Rebellion in Heaven. ETs (generically meant here to encompass UFO-related entities) are vulnerable to possession and abduction, as well.

16. Both sets or subsets of these entities may have volunteered to interact with humans in these ways.
Source

Now lets look at ancient cultures in whom many members at ATS often refer to in their threads.

The ancient civilizations of the Egyptians, Babylonians, Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas shared several intriguing characteristics:

They were extremely advanced scientifically and technologically.
Animal and human sacrifices were performed at an alarming rate, preceding their demise.
They believed they had acquired metaphysical knowledge from the "gods", whom they perceived as coming from the stars and also the subterranean level of the earth.
These cultures disintegrated or became abruptly extinct while at the pinnacle of their existance.

Interviews taken of ex-Wiccans and Satanists (now Christians) indicate a high level of personal contact with various alien types, especially during coven meetings and holiday rituals. Those coming from the highest echelon of Satanism known as the Illuminati, believe the original people who inhabited the earth descended from Mars via the Moon. They believe the first established civilization was Atlantis. Renowned for their superior intellect, the Atlanteans suffered the same fate as a few of the proceeding cultures already mentioned.

reply to post by Titan-Skull


A case epitomizing this "cosmic consciousness" has been disclosed by Sky Ambrose, an alleged UFO/alien abduction who was interviewed by Art Bell, on his nationally-syndicated radio show, Dreamland, October 16, 1994. She and a friend were supposedly abducted in Colorado after observing a UFO in November 1989. Sky lost about two hours of time which she could not account for and decided to undergo hypnosis. A condensed version of what Ms. Ambrose recalled is as follows:

The aliens looked translucent, with large heads upon thin, frail bodies. Their eyes were large and pronounced, but their was no recollection of noses or mouths.
Sky and her friend were implanted with a small square, tissue-like substance inside their heads (ct scan analysis or x-rays have verified these biological devices exist).
Communication with the aliens was achieved telepathically.
They (the aliens) told Sky she was not chosen by them, but she out of her own volition, decided to participate in this journey before her present life (reincarnation). To her understanding, these beings are "caretakers" or "guardians" of the planet, Earth. Their function is to bring forth "revelation" through the spirit of unity, and, the earth is the soul of God; a living entity (paganism).
It was explained to her that the universe is rhythmic and presently at a peak cycle; what appears to be chaos is actually the birthing of a "new order" (ordo ab chaos?). To enter into the next evolutionary level, new bodies will be needed to re-seed the planet. This hybrid body will be a combination of human and alien (remember the Nephilim?).
Her renewed belief system incorporates the expression that negativity brings separation but unity brings love (please read II Corinthians 6:17 & Matthew 10:34).
Source
edit note: no more than 3 paragraphs.

The ancient deity Baal was "Lord of War" and "Lord of the Sky"
Rephaim - from the root rapha = spirits, shades Gen. 14:5
Eminem - the proud deserters, terrors, race of giants Gen. 14:5
Zuzim- the evil ones, roaming things Gen. 14:5
Zamzummims - the evil plotters, Deut. 2:20
Zophim - watchers, angels who descended Num. 23, distinct from "holy watchers" aligned with God
Sepharim - the many
While the New Testament uses the Greek word "demon" to refer to these "sons of the mighty", the Old Testament uses revealing descriptive names. Words which describe these beings, such as b'nai Elohim meaning "sons of God", Zophim meaning "the watchers", and Mal Akh meaning "messengers", (this reference was translated angel in English), are used for the "aerial host" often regardless of alignment. The Book of Enoch tells us the origin of certain "interdimensional intelligences" -- called in the monotheistic New Testament "demons", who were understandably associated with evil because originally the Greek term diamond meant "any deity" -- was in the Days of Noah, and didn't end with the Flood but continued according to Genesis 6, "even after". There are three main terms for demons in the New Testament: daimonion (demon; 60 times, 50 in the Gospels); pneuma (spirit; some 52 times) usually with a qualifying adjective such as akatharton (unclean; 21 times) or poneron (evil; 8 times); and angelos (7 times of demonic agencies). Daemon (demon), the term commonly used in classical Greek, appears only once (Mark 8:31)


"The UFO manifestations seem to be, by and large, merely minor variations of the age-old demon -ecological phenomenon..." - John A. Keel, "UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse"

I abandoned the extraterrestrial hypothesis in 1967 when my own field investigations disclosed an astonishing overlap between psychic phenomena and UFOs... The objects and apparitions do not necessarily originate on another planet and may not even exist as permanent constructions of matter. It is more likely that we see what we want to see and interpret such visions according to our contemporary beliefs=-John A. Keel

In the end I still make the claim the Aliens, Demons, "real"Crop circles architects , and possibly even the Mothman are the one and the same.

So No Titen it doesn't equal fail



[edit on 7-6-2010 by Loken 68]

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Loken68]

The original poster may have started the thread on a wrong premise but I believe he is partly correct in his analysis. Reptillians have lived on earth for a very long time and they have been given many names such as "gods, giants, nephelim". Allegedly they are from alpha draconia and have conquered a good portion of the known universe.

Not all aliens are bad though. Many aliens resemble present-day humans and are speculated to have found lemuria, atlantis, pan and other ancient colonies. Officially we don't know many details because 1)this knowledge is covered-up by the PTB and 2)people have a natural tendency to laugh at the unknown. We are weak individuals that believe ONLY what schools teach and what known science accepts, while classified science and classified religion has become elite turf. This along with private central banking has become the epitomy of covert slavery the world over! The good aliens are known by the names of "pleadians, blondes, elohim, carians" among other names.

The majority of aliens that visit earth, but do not reside here, are casual travelers out on an expedition and many even cross dimensions, if that is even possible. Ghosts, aliens, humans, etc all share similar characteristics of a body and soul. If humans that have died under vicious circumstances can travel earth as ghostlike apparitions then I see no reason why aliens can't morph in and out of the physical realm or at least out of the human's visible spectrum.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I'm sorry...I believe there is life out there and they have been here, etc. etc. but I just don't buy things like their names and such. How do we know what they are called? Seriously, if someone does have an answer please enlighten me. I would like to learn more about it.

reply to post by FBI 33


I cannot go into great detail about what you ask because my research is inadequate. All I can do is outline what I think is important and on-topic.

The rest is up to you!

Originally posted by Loken68

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
Ghosts/Demons are spiritual. Aliens are physical. How can they be the same thing?

What a strange thread. There's no conclusive proof that any of the above exist. I could say 'demons are marshmallow men - prove me wrong'.

Demons have manifested themselves on a physical plain before and still do.

The truth of this matter can not be known on a public level and this is why. None of these experiences happen on a public stage. I'm not saying a large group of people might not experience the same thing, but as far as "conclusive" evidence to permit national involvement into the "truth" of the matters, there has not been a polarizing event that can lead us to one conclusion or another.

I have experienced "UFO's" "spirits" "ghosts", and while the experiences were weird, I can not make a conclusion based on superstitions even if such superstitions were right. I do not think the ufo I saw (a burnt orange orb floating over downtown san diego in broad daylight) was an "alien" but it was something I had not experienced before.

All I'm saying is letting fear of the unknown form your opinions on things that have no conclusive polarization makes no sense, nor is it truthful.

Peace

reply to post by JR MacBeth

I just finished the book "Hunt for the Skinwalker: Science Confronts the Unexplained at a Remote Ranch in Utah"

Pretty interesting read. I think what sets it apart is the fact that the guy who wrote it gives no sense of bias and readily offers that after studying the ranch for several years, the results were still "scientifically" inconclusive. Basically, the ranch was host to a plethora of unexplained, bizarre paranormal activity, which included poltergeist activity, cattle mutilation, demonic activity, light orbs & run-of-the-mill UFO sightings. The premise of the book is that all the activity that took place on the ranch was by some sort of sentient intelligence who's sole, inexplicable purpose was deception, through whatever random successful means necessary.

For me, the book served as just another nail in the coffin for the whole UFO shenanigans.

My next read is a book by Jacques Vallee, "Messengers of Deception: UFO Contacts & Cults."

Just started reading it yesterday.

reply to post by Loken68


Loken68 no offense, but I could take everyone of the ways you say alien and demon entities present themselves and show you how "God" of the bible does the same presentation.

Take Ezekiel's wheel, or Isaiah's descriptions, or Saul having Samual's spirit raised or even new testament descriptions of the tongues of fire. All the same could be called demonic and are when people don't understand them.

Peace

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by Loken68

 

Loken68 no offense, but I could take everyone of the ways you say alien and demon entities present themselves and show you how "God" of the bible does the same presentation.

Take Ezekiel's wheel, or Isaiah's descriptions, or Saul having Samual's spirit raised or even new testament descriptions of the tongues of fire. All the same could be called demonic and are when people don't understand them.

Peace

I agree. I think it is really all about personal belief and interpretation.

Originally posted by Loken68
They (the aliens) told Sky she was not chosen by them, but she out of her own volition, decided to participate in this journey before her present life (reincarnation).

Are the words in brackets yours or in the original quote?

Can I share something a bit weird? Why not, I do anyway.....

12 or so years ago my mentor and I were mentally scanning a man who had the symptoms of a stroke without ever having had one. We "saw" a problematic area that was not natural and began working on it with "directed energy".

Afterwards my mentor asked me to track down the race responsible for the implant that had failed due to the man dehydrating in hot weather.

That night I did, It was a simple procedure similar to how one operates in the various "realms".. realms being energy vibrating at a different rates to our 3/4D Reality.

Anyway, on contact an interesting discussion was had culminating in the information that the man in question had agreed to co-create the experience and supply data from the "test".

I knew this to be honest due to the distinct energy signature that radiates from honesty.. something that cannot be faked.

There you go, crazy but true story out of the way now, you may all go back to your arguments.

Honestly, I hate to quote this guy, but this is the truth.

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
-Donald Rumsfeld

Originally posted by FBI 33

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by Loken68

 

Loken68 no offense, but I could take everyone of the ways you say alien and demon entities present themselves and show you how "God" of the bible does the same presentation.

Take Ezekiel's wheel, or Isaiah's descriptions, or Saul having Samual's spirit raised or even new testament descriptions of the tongues of fire. All the same could be called demonic and are when people don't understand them.

Peace

I agree. I think it is really all about personal belief and interpretation.

That's ALL there is when it comes down to it right? I mean to get along we must universally agree on certain things for survival's sake, but as far as anyone's perception is swayed, it will always be personal, hence, PERception.

That's part of the beauty of creation, light refracting in every direction thus filling the void we call death.



Peace

Hey Joe good to see you again...

[edit on 7-6-2010 by letthereaderunderstand]