Turkish Navy will Escort aid to Gaza

Maybe the EU wants a war to revitalize their economy. God save us all if they're that retarded.


All sides need to chill.

what would be really nice is if iran would escort aid to gaza, i would love to see that, its time to end the suffering of the people in gaza and put the zionist empire in check, power equality.

Originally posted by T0XiK
what would be really nice is if iran would escort aid to gaza, i would love to see that, its time to end the suffering of the people in gaza and put the zionist empire in check, power equality.

You mean the same Iranians that swore to wipe all the jews off the map? The same Iran that denies the holocaust ever happened? I respect personal opinion but that's just crazy.

reply to post by T0XiK


You do realise Iran is totally powerless against Israel, right? If Israel wanted to they could crush Iran. You guys need to get one fact straight now - no one country is going to stand up against Israel because they are too scared. It will always be limited to small rebel groups to do this job.

Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
Maybe the EU wants a war to revitalize their economy. God save us all if they're that retarded.


All sides need to chill.

I've been saying for a while that all this economy BS was going to lead to a war.... it's just a matter of time. Maybe the time has come?

Originally posted by tellmemoreok
Turkey threatens action

This has the potential of escalation. Israel has one choice. End the blockade. That's how it appears now.

Turkey knows it is on the right side, since they are allowed to enter Gaza through International waters.

This will be interesting to see.

The first incident was completely unjustified for since it was also in the International waters therefore giving Turkey the authority to do the same to Israeli ships lurking in International waters.

It is funny how all the Western nations are still backing Israel, no nation condemned the attacks, they merely stated they were shocked, even the head of UN.

All Western nations basically called for an investigation, which allows us to conclude that they are still in Israel's side, but the people of the world are not.

Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
Maybe the EU wants a war to revitalize their economy. God save us all if they're that retarded.


All sides need to chill.

Everyone would want one.. America, EU, even China and Russia who both ship arms.. a major, cataclysmic war would bring in a wartime economy to economies that produce no real wealth (the West)...

Turkey and Israel are, for the most part, friendly to each other.. Turkey is the least fanatic of the Islamic states.. as a matter of fact, they are relatively Westernized by Middle Eastern standards..

I don't know if it's to show Israel some muscle.. or a promise to Israel that they are ensuring contraband items don't come from Turkey.. I don't see any issues arising from Turkey and Israel as nations.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I hope you're right because if those 2 countries go to war there are some serious implications involved. To start with the NATO aspect. Turkey is a NATO member, Israel is not. This could be very nasty not only over there but in the PR war. Could NATO fall?

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

I hope you're right because if those 2 countries go to war there are some serious implications involved. To start with the NATO aspect. Turkey is a NATO member, Israel is not. This could be very nasty not only over there but in the PR war. Could NATO fall?

You have to remember the timing of this event.

I think Turkey chose the timing of the event very carefully, Turkey knows America is weak, American cannot be lured in to another fight, Israel has no allies except Canada, knowing the fact that most countries of the world have condemned Israel over and over again due to their actions and their lack of respect for International law.

That being said, if this incident escalates and turns in to war, you can expect North Korea with the help of China get involved in South East Asia, forcing the influence of the US out of the area.

Iran with the help of its allies could get involved in Iraq and Afghanistan, forcing American influence out.

Venezuela and its allies could get involved in South America forcing American influence out of the area.

Sudan with the help of China could force American influence away from that area.

Now the question is: Does Israel control America, or America control Israel.

1. If Israel controls America, this will escalate, and America will face the same consequences as USSR.

2. If America controls Israel, this will not escalate and some sort of compromise will be developed between the parties involved.

I wonder if what I wrote actually makes sense lol

I will read it again later.

Originally posted by AndrewTB

Originally posted by T0XiK
what would be really nice is if iran would escort aid to gaza, i would love to see that, its time to end the suffering of the people in gaza and put the zionist empire in check, power equality.

You mean the same Iranians that swore to wipe all the jews off the map? The same Iran that denies the holocaust ever happened? I respect personal opinion but that's just crazy.

you know in the iranian power hierarchy the president has very little power, he is basically just there for show, thats like if sara palin said she wanted to wipe all the mexicans off the map, sure she can blab all she wants but is anyone going to do it? no.

The Flotilla was scheduled to arrive at the blockade line at approximately 8AM local time. IE, in full daylight.

IMHO this is what the Isrealis tried to avoid, they did NOT want any military action to be seen in full daylight. Hence the approval of night time operations. The idea was to storm the boats and take control without any resistance, as they KNEW that nothing larger than possibly a small calibre hand gun would be aboard the boat.

Still in darkness, every person on those ships would have known they were still in international waters. Being attacked in international waters by unknown (although easily guessed at) soldiers is against all international laws that have stood for centuries. The crews on the ships had every legal right to repel the invading pirates.

The Isreali gamble failed, as these free people did not accept having guns pointed at them. They fought back with whatever they had. I'd like to point out that the photo posted here of the "dangerous knives" looked like an arbitrary assortment of kitchen and pocket knives, with the largest item being a knife sharpener. I have more than that in my kitchen drawers. I also have not seen any evidence of guns on board the flotilla, other than IDF reports of small arms fire against them. I also compare this with reports that IDF soldiers had the guns taken from them (which were then used against them).

I also find it strange that the Isrealis claim to be using paintball guns, when most clearly they also carried fully automatic submachine guns.

The unarmed convoy was attacked at night in international waters, clearly the peaceful approach has no credibility, as with overland deliveries. Unless there is a country that provides a military escort, these goods wll not reach the Gazans.

As to the various anti semite / palestian apologiser insults, i am South African, and neutral to both parties. However, i know racism when i see it, and this is worse than anything i've seen in South Africa. Our government has rightly condemned this, and supported journalists to accompany the convoy, from whom they have had no word since the attack.

We in South Africa are already calling this Isreal's Sharpeville. We are also demanding to know the whereabouts of our citizens.

Go Turkey! They don't need to pick a fight, but we as people of the world have a RIGHT to share with our Palestinian friends.

On BBC news just now the reporter from Israel said that it would have been better and more efficient if Israel had sunk the ship instead of boarding it.
He was quoting somebody else, I missed who it was.

I think you are missing a very important point.. Turkey and Israel have been the closest military allies in the area for a decade now, a quick search on the web would get you hundreds and hundreds of papers and articles on this.
But to be more precise the Turkish military establishment more and Israel have been the two parties of this alliance.. the Turkish Islamic government was never comfortable with such an arrangement..
What happened with the Gaza flotilla the past few days in my eyes is more of a n internal power conflict in Turkish political scene rather than anything else... I cant even believe how Israel was fooled to fell in the trap to be part of this power struggle !!!

Ah and btw for me the chances of a Turkish Navy escorting the next flotilla into Israel territorial waters are next to none literally. This would have been completely suicidal and Turkey is more interested into rhetorically presenting itself as the protector of the Arabs rather than losing a few thousands of sailors and the hardware in a matter of minutes. I mean even if the government meant it, which they don’t, the most likely result of ordering the Turkish Navy into a confrontation with Israel would be an instant and American backed coup from the turkish military establishment.

Cheers

Originally posted by laytheovers
Turkey is more interested into rhetorically presenting itself as the protector of the Arabs

This comment is really true. I've debated history with many Turks, especially about the Ottoman empire. And they always talk about how great they were for the Arabs and how the Arabs needed them.

You my friend, have it spot on!

reply to post by laytheovers

Ah and btw for me the chances of a Turkish Navy escorting the next flotilla into Israel territorial waters are next to none literally.

That is not Israeli territories.

Hamas was chosen democratically by the people of Gaza to govern that area. Resolution this, resolution that, blablabla..

These all have been stated thousands of times before.

Israel doesn't respect International laws, and if she wants a confrontation with the International community, it better be ready for its own blockade.

The collapse of the UN is immanent, it is the UN which is stopping the world for punishing ISrael for its crimes.

“That is not Israeli territories.”

What you say my friend is a very debatable point:
The Gaza strip does not have the status of a state, therefore they cannot have territorial waters. I mean an International Court would probably recognize the ownership of Israel over the waters, i m guessing. But this is just a “legalistic” view over the issue..and please notice im only talking about the waters yeah..

Also i m not arguing whether there is an awfully tragic humanitarian condition in Gaza or not... this would have been completely unreasonable to debate and obviously yes Israel has violated various international conventions. Im just pointing to the irony of Turkey’s involvement.... the International community you mention in your reply i still have not seen in this recent incident.

Flotilla question

Greetings.

According to this, Obama Pals back the violent Gaza flotilla, at least 3 of obama's close friends/associates/advisors, Bill Ayers, Jodie Evans, and Bernardine Dohrn, and their "esteemed" organizations, are involved in the funding.

Are Ayers/Dorn/Evans organizations taxpayer funded?

Are our tax dollars funding or partially funding the flotilla effort?

Just trying to follow the money.

Respectfully,
Adonsa

@EGO84
Yes mate, it was always a strong trend in Turkish thinking but its lately very much enforced by the realization that EU is not an option anymore, well at least in the foreseeable future..

Originally posted by laytheovers
“That is not Israeli territories.”

What you say my friend is a very debatable point:
The Gaza strip does not have the status of a state, therefore they cannot have territorial waters. I mean an International Court would probably recognize the ownership of Israel over the waters, i m guessing. But this is just a “legalistic” view over the issue..and please notice im only talking about the waters yeah..

Also i m not arguing whether there is an awfully tragic humanitarian condition in Gaza or not... this would have been completely unreasonable to debate and obviously yes Israel has violated various international conventions. Im just pointing to the irony of Turkey’s involvement.... the International community you mention in your reply i still have not seen in this recent incident.

Gaza doesn't have a state status doesn't mean ISrael owns it?
What gives you a state status? The US?
Where do you get this permit?
Ohh I have the answer, you fight for it, your forefathers fought for it, for America, Palestinians will fight for it, they fight till they get what they should have got a long time ago.

Israel doesn't own that land, they can forcefully take it, but they will meet resistance.

You can't possibly say Israel has violated various international laws, it has violated more laws than any nation on this planet. Don't tone it down, I'm on that "Israel bad" crowd. Israel has been condemned more than any country on this planet.

That being said, no justice has been served. Israel can continue braking International rules without any consequences.

reply to post by intrepid


Turkey is one of Israel's largest trading partners (a total of 7-10% of total exports) .. you will notice that Turkey it's self as never come to the aid of Palestinians in the past, because they, like most Islamic states, don't like Palestinians .. and considering Jordan, Israel and Turkey form the largest economic pact outside of oil and OPEC in the Middle East, it would seem Turkey and Israel have more common ground than they do fights to pick.

Both countries have been considering America with little regard to our thoughts.. neither being pushed, they both push against us. Be it refusing a military base, or going to war without American approval.

So I don't really know which way they are going .. a sign of peace to Israel or a sign of strength, it could be either one because well frankly, both have been acting erratically for the past 10 years. No one in the ME likes Israel, and very few like Turkey (they have a habit of controlling nearly everyone's water, then charging countries to release the H2O from their dams)

reply to post by LittleSecret

1. If Israel controls America, this will escalate, and America will face the same consequences as USSR.

Israel doesn't control America.. we needed a base in the ME while the USSR was trying to convert the ME into Communism .. bring them behind the Iron Curtain. So we gave Israel everything they wanted and more, protecting and building them.. since day one Israel knew we needed them more than they needed us.. as such they have treated us like crap, they are probably our single worst ally, and our best because well, their military is almost unmatched. America considers them a basket case worth putting up with because we have no other alternative in the ME -- that was, until we took over Iraq and Afghanistan .. if they rise into a prominent and stable position, Israel's "influence" (for lack of a better word) will be diminished. Which is probably while they are so crazy.

reply to post by harryhaller

Being attacked in international waters by unknown (although easily guessed at) soldiers is against all international laws that have stood for centuries.

1. There is no such thing as "International Law"
2. Floating into a blockade by a country is basically infringing on their .. jurisdiction (for lack of a better word) .. the only one able to challenge a nations position in international territory is a country able to force their hand.. since no one can (except Turkey), Israel was the de facto controller of that territory (another example of what I'm talking about is when Russia sent oil-finding crews into international waters in the Arctic, even though Canada and the US each claimed it as their own.)

Doesn't mean their actions are good, or even sanctioned, it's just I find it annoying when people put blind faith into the "establishment", especially when the establishment they so clearly want is non-existent. In this case, it would be a one World government. Which thankfully doesn't exist, and thus, no "international laws".