Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by clay2 baraka

Originally posted by gambon

Originally posted by clay2 baraka

Originally posted by gambon
well in the video , many assaulters dont appear to be wearing protection , hence mentioning it.....

news.bbc.co.uk...

o.50 1 soldier in standard idf mask ..one wearing no mask

Which is odd. . . if you have deployed tear gas. .

YES...exactly my point , hence me doubting they used pepper balls or any tpe of gas , substance, equiptment which would make visibility worse on a relatively small ship

basically using gas on a windy ship is a bit pointless

[edit on 31-5-2010 by gambon]

There are multiple, live reports of CS gas, and flash-bang grenades being employed. . I have even seen footage of the assault team carrying tear gas launchers. .

Nice try, however.

In a blitz of military strength, masked commandos rapelled on to the Turkish ship's deck from a helicopter and boarded from the side by fast attack launch. They were armed with guns, stun grenades and tear gas.

www.guardian.co.uk...

[edit on 5/31/2010 by clay2 baraka]

sry but can you show me ANY video evidence of ANY gas being used any where on the ship , I have looked and cannot find a single scene of gas being used , in fact most idf seem to only be wearing oakleys , no mask apart from a shemagh , using gas on the open decks of a ship is pointless , believe me , possibly some smoke from the mark 9 or 15 or whatever they are using , also NONE of the people on the boat , after it has settled down appear to be suffering from the effects of any gas at all


note I am NOT defending this happening at all , I am trying to find the facts amongst the hearsay ... for axample the only newstation that mentions casualties before the raid is al jazeera ,, no other agency mentions it....

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Egypt is paid to do what Egypt is told to do, and it does what it's told to do because it likes to get paid, just like Israel, American Tax Payer Dollars.

Are any of the reasons you gave good enough for the world to continue to ignore Egypt's partnership in the blockade?

Where is the world's pressure on Egypt? They are also hurting the Palestinians.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


I answered that. And your explanation for a Holocaust survivor doesn't wash. Everyone knows what Hamas is. Hedy Epstein has been protesting the Israeli treatment of Palestinians since the early 80s, well before Hamas took power.

What about the European politicians? I suppose they are all anti-semites?

Edit to add I already answered your question regarding Hamas.

[edit on 31-5-2010 by InvisibleAlbatross]

[edit on 31-5-2010 by InvisibleAlbatross]

reply to post by Gorman91


It's not a war. It's a siege.

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross

 

Well, it seems to me that she had good intentions but was also a victim of Hamas propaganda. She is not the first person to be used, nor will she be the last. Most people are open to persuasion, and at her age it would seem that she could be more easily manipulated ...... So the question stands. .... Do you believe Hamas is a terrorist organization?

All Governments terrorize their own people, and whether you have a splinter cell blow up a building for political or strategic reasons or you have the CIA or MOSSAD blow up a building by the same means for political or strategic reasons, all States, terrorize their citizens into following laws and submitting to the State’s authority, and all States with the exception of a few like Costa Rica that has no standing Army or Navy, do in fact kill citizens of other nations abroad, illegally using paid agents of the State.

Hamas is no different than most States and political entities, it has a social and political wing and it has a military wing.

The United States Inc is a terrorist organization, Israel Inc is a terrorist organization, and the United Kingdom, Inc. is a terrorist organization, as they all will use violence to promote fear for political purposes which is what the definition of terrorism is about.

The reality is the Powers that Be, our Masters are playing word games with us, where through semantics they attempt to mask the true nature of the very political events themselves.

Since terrorism which is as old as the world itself is about using violence to promote fear for political purposes, then really being anti-terrorist, is being anti-politics, and ultimately the only way you can be anti-politics is to have a one party police state that allows for no politics of any kind, except the “official story”.

That is the whole point of the War on Terrorism which increasingly includes the word Domestic Terrorist as a catch all for anyone politically dissenting from the ‘Official Story’.

Is that the world you want to live in? If not, I suggest you grab a dictionary and stop letting the spin doctors manipulate you with old words, that they invent new meanings for.


[edit on 31/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross

 

War doesn't have rules. Making rules in war only makes things worst. That is why war is evil.

and that is the truth ,

reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross


Yea and the people sieging make their own rules.

Originally posted by mack37
reply to post by DoomsdayRex

 

Link

here ya go bud...it's been linked many times in this thred...and wasn't hard to find.

Are you sure you linked me to the correct video? In an earlier post, you state...

Originally posted by mack37
Before the comandoes repel onto the deck the protesters had allready sustained casualties and death's...

However, this video shows nothing of the sort. It is a combination of footage from what appear to be various sources, showing the aftermath of the botched boarding attempt. At no time does it show injured civilians before the landing. While it does show the boarding attempt later in the video, this was shot earlier and spliced in, it is not happening live in context of the video.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Does anyone have statistics on what aid gets into Gaza and hunger levels there?

Since January 2009, more than a million tons of humanitarian aid have been transferred into Gaza. In the first quarter of 2010 alone, almost 100,000 tons of supplies have been provided, including 48,000 tons of food products, approximately 550 tons of milk powder and baby food, 2700 tons of rice, 40,000 tons of wheat, 185 tons of aggregates, 2000 tons of clothing and footwear, 20 tons of iron, 25 tons of cement and more than 1000 tons of medicine and medical equipment. The fuel and electricity needs are similarly being met, and hundreds of Palestinians from Gaza come to Israel for medical treatment.

gov.il

Originally posted by Skellon
In the footage you can see 'peaceful activists' wearing gas masks and brandishing metal bars beating soldiers before they have even put boots on the deck.

If that is what you call defence then I think you need to take your meds....

That is an attack as I see it.


Again I will say it, Israel should not have conducted this raid in international waters, however the 'militant' members of this 'hippy boat' initiated the violence according to the footage.

According to footage you can see clearly that IDF is going down from the Heli using GAS MASKS .. why ? Because they throw Tear Gas grenades before going down....
So ... who iniciate violence ? What would you do after throwing Gas on you?

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


What, in all honesty, is a viable alternative at this point? Do you think condemnation will stop these people? Oh boy, the U.N. is threatening to release a statement! That'll teach em'!

Look, I'm no warmongerer, but what I see is a rouge nation oppressing people with no sign of changing their ways. Merely calling Israel out for killing 9+ civilians in international waters is equivilant to letting them get away with it. Would sanctions work? Well, if the oppressor's standard of living goes down the oppressed are bound to be even worse off.

By illegally boarding a vessel with the world watching, Israel has demonstrated it has an obnoxious disregard for international rules and perceptions. They don't care what people say about them. My point? Condemnation will do nothing. Sanctions will only augment the horrid conditions of Gaza. Israel needs to feel the pain here, and words will not make that happen. They've proven that time and time again. How many times do these people have to show that they dodge rules before we start forcing them to comply?

reply to post by Gorman91


Which are against international law. If Israel wants the world to support its operations against Hamas, it must follow international law.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by mack37
reply to post by DoomsdayRex

 

Link

here ya go bud...it's been linked many times in this thred...and wasn't hard to find.

Are you sure you linked me to the correct video? In an earlier post, you state...

Originally posted by mack37
Before the comandoes repel onto the deck the protesters had allready sustained casualties and death's...

However, this video shows nothing of the sort. It is a combination of footage from what appear to be various sources, showing the aftermath of the botched boarding attempt. At no time does it show injured civilians before the landing. While it does show the boarding attempt later in the video, this was shot earlier and spliced in, it is not happening live in context of the video.

Yep this is filmed after the landing , and in NO way shows injuries sustained BEFORE the landing..........

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Foppezao

 

So then, i would dare all the ATS-ers over here what they think about the Egyptian (sout-western)blockade of Gaza, how about that? I'll happily wait for your answer..

That would be the Egypt that is paid billions of U.S. Taxpayer Dollars every year for signing the Camp David Peace Accord back in 1978?

Or the Egypt that quickly assissinated the Egyptian President (Sadat) who signed the deal?

Or the Egypt who has had the same President that then took Sadat's place in power ever since, getting billions of U.S. Taxpayer money every year, who is now 82 and still running Egypt almost 40 years later?

You have to be joking me right?

Egypt is paid to do what Egypt is told to do, and it does what it's told to do because it likes to get paid, just like Israel, American Tax Payer Dollars.

That was in 1978, Israel began the blockade since 2007 when Hamas came to power, [after election and] after Fatah replaced Hamas members in the PLO, Hamas took power by force in Gaza..
Fatah is ruling the Westbank and since they laid down their weapons its been a lot more peaceful and better living then in Gaza.
Hamas do not want to lay down their weapons and want the destruction of Israel, they try and smuggle weapons through tunnels into Gaza, tunnels which are gassed by the Egyptians, but you dont really hear a lot about that, imagine if Israeli were gassing Palestinians, i think the servers here wouldn't handle it and go up in smoke..
And don't tell me they do that cause they're getting paid, the Egyptians also want peace and dont want Hamas either, but when they do the same or even worse, the middle east is quiet..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

like the last poster said, move along nothing to see here

Some news that sounds quite worrying -

Turkey threatens action; Israel on alert

Turkey has threatened Israel with unprecedented action after Israeli forces attacked an aid vessel, killing 10 peace activists headed to Gaza.

A shocked world has responded with outrage. Turkey recalled its ambassador to Israel and warned of unprecedented and incalculable reprisals

Two Turkish activists were reported to be among those killed in the flotilla. Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy, a development with unpredictable consequences

This only spells out one thing to me. there's going to be skirmishes coming up in the near future.

ibnlive.in.com...

Originally posted by Lastone
According to footage you can see clearly that IDF is going down from the Heli using GAS MASKS .. why ? Because they throw Tear Gas grenades before going down...

The use of gas-masks does not necessarily mean tear-gas was employed. As another member stated earlier, they may have been using paint ball guns filled with pepper-balls; the gas-masks would have been employed to protect the soldier from their own weapon.

Further, there is absolutely no evidence (in the video) that tear-gas was used. There is no cloud and no one attacking the soldiers seems to be suffering the effects.

Turkey has stated that the turkish navy will escort the next flotilla to gaza.....escalation it is

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross

 

Well, it seems to me that she had good intentions but was also a victim of Hamas propaganda. She is not the first person to be used, nor will she be the last. Most people are open to persuasion, and at her age it would seem that she could be more easily manipulated ...... So the question stands. .... Do you believe Hamas is a terrorist organization?

Militant movement and terrorist organization would be a better description. They have been responsible for many attacks since 1993, killing more than 500 in 350 separate attacks. Many were suicide-bombings.

There's more to them than just militant actions however:

In addition to its military wing, the so-called Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigade, Hamas devotes much of its estimated $70-million annual budget to an extensive social services network. Indeed, the extensive social and political work done by Hamas - and its reputation among Palestinians as averse to corruption - partly explain its defeat of the Fatah old guard in the 2006 legislative vote. Hamas funds schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. "Approximately 90 percent of its work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities," writes the Israeli scholar Reuven Paz. The Palestinian Authority often fails to provide such services, and Hamas's efforts in this area—as well as a reputation for honesty, in contrast to the many Fatah officials accused of corruption—help to explain the broad popularity it summoned to defeat Fatah in the PA's recent elections.

Council on Foreign Relations - Hamas - Backgrounder

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Egypt is paid to do what Egypt is told to do, and it does what it's told to do because it likes to get paid, just like Israel, American Tax Payer Dollars.

Are any of the reasons you gave good enough for the world to continue to ignore Egypt's partnership in the blockade?

Where is the world's pressure on Egypt? They are also hurting the Palestinians.

First off you are confusing the issues and deliberately so. The pressure Israel is currently facing is in regards to killing 9-to up to perhaps as many 40 foreign nationals during a military operation carried out by Israel.

To my knowledge Egypt has not done this.

The Flotilla was attempting to access Gaza by boat. Gaza has a shore line, so if you are attempting to access Gaza by boat, it would make sense to actually head for Gaza and not Egypt, Australia, Liberia or Peru.

Egypt is not blockcading Gaza in the same fashion Israel is, Egypt has simply closed it's border to Gaza.

Egypt is not stopping commercial flights or private flights into Gaza, Israel is doing that.

Egypt is not blockcading the Gazan Coast either, Israel is doing that.

So in reality yes you can attempt to deflect away from the main issue which is, Israeli's attack of civilian aide vessels.

You can further try to deflect away from the secondary issue of the Israeli Blockcade against Gaza.

However a closed border with a country is not a naval, land and sea blockcade.

So how much pressure do you imagine should be placed on Egypt to reopen the border, and at what cost to Egypt when it comes to aide from the United States (the second biggest recipient) and at what cost to its own border personell when Israel bombs the border crossing with Egypt?

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Do you realy think the reporters would be standing around on deck talking to the cam AFTER the commandos land?
Surley the IDF would NOT allow that.
The footage is the direct live feed and yes it was edited together after the fact by someone onshore.
I have been following this from the start and there are many accounts from ppl who watched the LIVE feed as it happend, all report shots fired BEFORE the landing on deck.
Go back to the start of the thred and read for your self.