Female posters incapable of original thought?

reply to post by Jenna


I dont have ANY problem with ladies on the board. Maybe I was raised weird but I was raised around women that "dont know there place...AND TELL YOU SO!"

I'm raising my daughter to be the same way....just like her Mama!

I agree with some of the ladies here and some I dont. Just like the dudes.

I dont give a rats butt about if the poster wears skirts or business suits. I'm way more interested in the posting.

The NUMBER ONE person I want to watch my six is the person the gave me my little girl and the ability to be what I am today.

That person is my bride of 15 years come October 7. I love my Baby!

BTW, all of you ladies that have been so blessed, HAPPY MOTHERS DAY!
the hardest underpaid job EVER!

i would just like to add that during the 70s,80s,90s, the world was designed for men in there 30s now it seems like the world is run by 60 year old women

we have way to many rules and regulations
its as if my grandmother was running the world

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
BH! THis is so true!

Maybe it's the stuff I've learned about men in my 18-year marriage, but men ARE different. And one way they're different is that they don't (can't?) appreciate generalities. They like concrete examples. Pussyfooting around just makes it look like you're whining and complaining about a general feeling. I know you're not, but unless you are willing to lay it out there, don't expect them to "get it".


I like men, truly I do. But men don't do "subtle". Nope. They require hard-wired information to get the picture. Precise and to the point.

(Is this sexist?)

Head, meet bat.

yes, men like the bat to the head. They don't like the REPEATED bat to the head. Just a single whap, will do.

reply to post by thedeadtruth


Let me preface this for those that do not know me. I am female. I am a feminist.

I would like to disagree with you.

And I do disagree with the idea that it is as inherent at you believe. You have to remember that you ARE dealing specifically with women who have absolutely decided to turn on their internal ignore button. They wear it for you to see, and they are the people you are dealing with.

There is absolutely a certain amount of women - maybe even a large section of them - who don't think critically. They've also probably not been encouraged to think critically.

Women are encouraged to ignore the instincts, to find fun in being demeaned, and to accept their place in NOT questioning.

Women are literally encourage NOT to question.

In that context, some of what you are seeing makes sense.

All the same. I have to agree with you more than I would EVER want to.

I also have to agree with another poster I don't want to.

There is a high degree of social group think. Straying from group think is punishable through expulsion, shunning, social cues of disappointment. Conflict and competition are not just discouraged in female groups, but often punished.

Without challenge, critical think is impossible. No matter how open one precieves themselves to be, there is always more information.

Women often love the group/organization/family/unit-of-social-interaction more than the love the truth. The truth disrupts. Disruption is evil.


Not all women are like this. Not all groups are. However, it would be a lie to say it is not ubiquitious.

And it probably is inherent to a degree. When you consider that women who challenge have been WAY more likely to die unpleasantly at the hands of their "loved" ones for "being out of place," a degree of inherent importance of survival being in being socially malleable is probably necessary as a genetic strategy.


[edit on 2010/5/7 by Aeons]

Again, I would like to thank the OP for making this thread which is very pertinent to current circumstances. You are an excellent OP.

Some of you have surprised me with respect to your thoughts. There seems to be a tendency by some to minimize the issue which is being raised here.

Most assuredly this is not a frivolous matter, as some of you would like to believe. To you, I will say I believe you are not looking into what we have been trying to tell you here, and have gained only a superficial understanding of what is occurring. I ask you to please click on the links that have been provided for your assessment, if you have not already.

The women who frequent ATS do so for the same reasons men do.
We are fiercely curious. Our brains and thoughts extend beyond the mundane and daily fare. We want more. We are adventurous in our thoughts and lives, and we want to read, and be read by those with common interests.
We want to learn and we want to share what we have learned.

Anatomy or emotionality does not divide us in these endeavors and interests, nor should they.

But when someone appears who rudely claims it does....then yes.
It becomes a problem.

One observes from the OP's statements that she did not take authoring this thread lightly. She has a very good reason for it. I would hope we can all respect that.

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Thanks for your speedy reply. I am not going to wade through the multitude of pages on this thread.

No problem. I've been trying to keep up with the thread, I just hope I haven't missed anyone. Can't blame you for not wanting to wade through the whole thread. It turned into a bigger monster than I expected when I posted the OP.

What I am implying here in this ..is did they get a television/movie education in self justification through emotions?? How they feel. Are they drama queens...male and female.

I'm not sure. The way I've always understood it, using phrases like "I think" and "I feel" are supposed to make you seem less confrontational and are intended to keep from putting someone else on the defensive so the conversation can continue without finger-pointing. But that's more for personal relationships and not message boards. It doesn't work so well in threads where facts and proof are expected and needed more so than emotion though, so yeah some of it could just be drama kings and queens.

This has become the modus operandi of many on the various boards out here. It becomes obvious that they have little real life experiences and or knowledge outside of some feeling they got or bought into based on some movie or television program they ate with a huge spoon.

Who uses spoons? I prefer to eat mine with a fork.

Seriously though, I fear you may be correct. That could be part of the reason behind the comments that I referred to in the OP. If someone gets all of their knowledge of how men and women interact comes from movies and TV, they could easily be left with the impression that all women are money-hungry superficial bimbos and that they require a man to keep them in check. I hadn't thought of it from that angle.

Many males out here work in environment which require certain disciplines and knowledge's of what they are dealing with ..or they can in failing this become severely injured or killed. As a result of this kind of discipline or knowledge/awareness...they learn to stow...or discipline their emotions. They learn not to easily give into their emotions or live for them.
It can be quiet a struggle for many males/men to go back and forth to a home life where emotions are what someone lives for because of the risks/disciplines taken by someone else.

That's similar to some of the discussions my hubby and I have had. Many people know this already, but he's in the military. He has to control his emotions or risk his safety and the safety of those he's responsible for. Because of this, he has a difficult time grasping the reason why when I show a strong emotional response to something and sometimes thinks I'm just being ridiculous. (We have little talks about sexism too. :lol

It's not that he's intentionally trying to be insensitive, he just has gotten so used to hiding his emotions that any emotional display tends to make him uncomfortable. Over the years we've finally gotten to the point where I don't automatically think he's being an insensitive jerk and understand that due to the risks he faces, controlling emotions is second-nature for him. And now he doesn't automatically say (out loud) that I'm being irrational and understands that having emotions doesn't make my point less valid. It took us awhile to get that understanding of each other, but the battle was worth it since we're now better able to see where each other is coming from.

Yes..this is exactly of what I was speaking..the desire to do this...on the part of both sexes.

My apologies, I misunderstood you a bit then.

Also ...be very careful what one thinks is strength...physical strength is not always strength.

[...]

Subtlety properly applied can also be strength...as can many other attributed. Strength is not always physical. I think many males tend to overlook this.

Agreed. I mentioned physical strength as an example of one way that my hubby and I compliment each other as a way of explaining how men and women in general compliment each other.

Ladyinwaiting -

I always find the argument that people being "emotional" is bad interesting.

All humans are emotional, unless they have a brain problem.

Most of the people who complain that women are "emotional" are often highly emotional themselves - and usually too stupid to realize they are emotional. Or so out of touch with it that they miss vital internal cues.

Emotion is a signal of a body process or one's brain prompting them to pay attention to something important. It is absolutely critical to human survival, and human genetic continuance.

The people who claim that someone is "too emotional" to think are usually so out of touch with their own emotions that they are lying to themselves. Which should immediately call into question their "critical thinking" since they are already ignoring critical information.


Anyways - just a pet peeve that I was reminded of.

The idea that men are the "standard" by which "critical thought" is based is flawed.

Critical thought is critical thought, and the gender of the person is irrelevant to the outcomes of the application of logic and knowledge.


[edit on 2010/5/7 by Aeons]

reply to post by Aeons


Genetic strategy. Now THAT is saying alot.
Women strategize for survival. Men, who may not appreciate women disobeying them, will react out of emotion (she hurt his pride) and kill women on the premise that they are not fulfilling their assigned roles. This they call "logic." Whereas the woman who realizes she has a snowball's chance in hell of surviving such a scenario, uses her logic and strategizes her own survival. This is called emotion.

Yeeeep, the world is upside, backwards and inside out.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Aeons

 

Genetic strategy. Now THAT is saying alot.
Women strategize for survival. Men, who may not appreciate women disobeying them, will react out of emotion (she hurt his pride) and kill women on the premise that they are not fulfilling their assigned roles. This they call "logic." Whereas the woman who realizes she has a snowball's chance in hell of surviving such a scenario, uses her logic and strategizes her own survival. This is called emotion.

Yeeeep, the world is upside, backwards and inside out.

I know. It turns your head inside out.

What should make people really freak out is this. They think that it is all about females protecting themselves.

In patriarchial societies, there are ONLY gender roles. There is ONLY marriage. There is only ONE way, even if its stupid.

In societies that aren't so patriarchial there is divorce. There is a way out. Roles are de-emphasized, and what works is emphasized.

Some # people think is seriously provably wrong. All male dominated societies have marriage as the only option. No female-liberated (even if that liberation is not much) society has only marriage as an option. Yet everyone thinks that marriage is for women.

That one always makes my mind want to bleed.

[edit on 2010/5/7 by Aeons]

Seriously, I had to highlight this post. THIS is the clearest example of what the OP is trying to get across that I have seen. If anyone said that to me in real life I would probably clock their troglodyte behind. But online you hear this kind of nonsense directed at women all the time.

Originally posted by vaevictis

Originally posted by aboveandbeyond

They also know the US is stretched thin in both manpower and funding. Our troops can't be everywhere and we can't afford another war. I hope nothing comes of this, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if something does.

Maybe manpower will work as a deterrent without doing anything?

aboveandbeyond, I don't mean to appear rude or callous, but i don't think military matters are for you to discuss. you just haven't earned it. you'd be the first to cower in the corner uttering some skirt-clutching squeals of horror like 'what are THEY going to do about it? THEY - never YOU. i know what i said doesn't sound politically correct but it's time someone said it. women really need to conduct a reality check. i'm sure you've a lot to offer on ats maybe it'd be better to choose a more neutral topic where you can actually contribute rather than pulling one-liners out of your girlish a**

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is just disgusting. If he she cannot control themselves in a basic civil manner online I would hate to see how they behave elsewhere.

This is also the reason this thread is educational and needed. Highlighting examples of this behavior and bringing the darkness of the thoughts to light is the first step in trying to understand it.

I admit, I do not understand the viewpoint of the quoted poster.

The comments go well beyond non politically correct.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by hotbakedtater]

[edit on 7-5-2010 by hotbakedtater]

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Let's hear it for hotbakedtater for helping us

[color=seafoam]DENY IGNORANCE

....Which seems to be in abundance on this thead.

(I feel like I've left my time period..and been transported back to the 19th Century). You?

Every time someone says or acts like they are female I get the disturbing mental image of some 40 something fat guy living in their mothers basement sitting in his underwear doing the typing...hehe

Never assume anything....

reply to post by Xtrozero


What strikes me as really funny when I read your post is that I almost included something about that in a response to someone several pages back.

reply to post by Aeons


I know men are emotional. Women KNOW men are emotional. You don't show it so much in front of one another....but you do in front of US.

So, yes. We know.

And you know what? We don't mind one bit.

ETA: That was a good point, Aeons. Thank you for raising it.

[edit on 5/7/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by Aeons

 

I know men are emotional. Women KNOW men are emotional. You don't show it so much in front of one another....but you do in front of US.

So, yes. We know.

And you know what? We don't mind one bit.

[edit on 5/7/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

Men are emotional, but what makes them emotional most women care little about and vice versa. As many have said, both sexes use very different thought processes, and I see that is what might frustrate people into attacking gender.

Jenna - great topic to discuss and well stated opening post.

To start from the beginning:

My focus for this thread though isn’t sexism in general, but the mistaken belief that being female makes someone incapable of original thought and/or incapable of understanding a topic put forth for discussion. What is it that has caused some posters to believe that's true? More importantly, why is it brought up mid-discussion in an attempt to invalidate and demean female posters for doing nothing more than discussing the topic at hand?

I really think this concept has been answered, both superficially and in-depth. It can be as simple as knowing this is an easy weapon to wield and to do so will almost always divert attention from whatever was being discussed, to this newly charged and direct insult to whomever it is directed (be it one person or a group). It's a quick and dirty tool and can be quite effective. In other cases, the concept stems from a deeply ingrained belief or world view. In either case, it's something that is real and will be something that everyone runs up against at one time, or another. I suppose one's own belief in their self-worth and in who they are, will dictate their reactions to sexism, as a whole.

Now, about that question of emotion vs logic.

I think it foolish to discount one for the other, or to believe that because one exists, the other cannot, in terms of thinking, intelligence, communication, and/or body of knowledge about a subject or situation. As has been mentioned numerous times, but bears constant hammering to allow the concept to sink in (apparently) people have emotions... Despite the attempts to explain the ability of compartmentalization of these emotions in cases of critical thinking or debate, (i.e. men can, while women cannot) it does not negate them. Men and women may or may not be more or less adept at that ability to do so, based upon their experiences in life. However, for multiple styles of communication exist for a reason. To discount one as less worthy than another simply shows the closed-mindedness, sexist, illogical, and/or "insert word" of the person doing so. Those who seek to truly discuss a topic or to truly learn about a subject or who truly embrace the concept of diversity and who are willing to learn from others, will know this to be true. Those who do not, will be face with their own shortcomings in their own lives and will (at some point) have to reconcile with it.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Every time someone says or acts like they are female I get the disturbing mental image of some 40 something fat guy living in their mothers basement sitting in his underwear doing the typing...hehe

Never assume anything....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/788d10727a48.jpg[/atsimg]

Mom Says, I don't have to talk about such things if I don't want to. Mom says I can just simply be me online. Mom says I don't have to reveal my gender or lack there of.

That's what moms says!