Female posters incapable of original thought?

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Good grief, the bile being spewed is uncalled for in there. Sadly, certain types of men get their kicks out of being that way towards a woman, plus it gives them a great excuse to absolve themselves of any and all blame in an argument.

For anyone doubting a womans resolve, fortitude and emotional reaction, please come to my neck of the woods. The women here are just as ballsy as the men.

Just to note, I find sexist jokes to be funny at times. I'm not a feminist by any stretch of the imagination and poking fun at genders is all part of my daily interactions with friends and family. It's lighthearted and harms no one, but the line is crossed as it is in that thread when someone is using sexism as a device to humiliate another poster into submission. Disgusting.

Ladies ladies ladies, Jay and Silent Bob in the...

no wait. Where was I?

Oh yes. This is just a symptom of a disease I like to call internettoughguyitis. This site has become more popular in recent years (hence my declining post average, too many regular joes and janes ruining my crazy conspiracy talk, but I digress). As we now have lots of "regular" people here, we're going to get a lot more asshattery, and that usually includes sexism, racism, and many other isms. Remember, the anonymity of the internet can give people a sense of fearlessness in their posting, and with that they can often reveal their true colors. We forget that due to "political correctness," when out in the real world, everybody hides the thoughts and feelings which have been deemed unacceptable by society. On the internet we can see that the thoughts that we previously believed were "outdated" due to their absence are really alive and well. I don't believe this has EVER been addressed in the MSM, pop culture, or what have you, but I feel that it's a very real issue.

I'm sure I could wax intellectual about the subject for hours, but I need to check out some UFO stuff before I hit the pro-tools.

"Men in a group will each speak their own mind, women in a group will just develop mind-think and agree with the majority because they have no individual opinions"

For what it is worth, I have no women in my life who hold back from voicing their individual opinion - strongly. I frequently count on those opinions too. Who ever told you contrary must not get out much. I am not sure what "mind-think" means. I guess I will go ask my wife.

All females are great analytical thinkers, but they post with their hearts, not their minds.

rikijo.blogspot.com...

Still the best truth blog on the net.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
www.criticalthinking.com...

Here everyone, quick, take this quiz,

maybe you think this test is critical thinking... i see it as only crafty shortcuts to test.... many, including myself boned up on these test questions ...with the results sugesting that we are smart


at 17, i passed the (Army) Officers Candidate Test with a high enough score that i was advised to follow through when i reached my Permanent Duty Station...
hell, i quit HS in the beginning of 11th grade and resided at the Harrisburg Polyclinc Hospital mental ward for the 6 months prior to entry in the Service
~what do they know~

More often than not these types of thoughts are just a reflection of your own insecurities. Paranoia maybe and you probably got a little feminist inside you egging you on. This isn't an Islamic site, we people in the free world respect womens ideas and freedoms if we jest from time to time it is only for the funny. Men and women have their biases and shouldn't be take too serious.

BH! THis is so true!

Maybe it's the stuff I've learned about men in my 18-year marriage, but men ARE different. And one way they're different is that they don't (can't?) appreciate generalities. They like concrete examples. Pussyfooting around just makes it look like you're whining and complaining about a general feeling. I know you're not, but unless you are willing to lay it out there, don't expect them to "get it".


I like men, truly I do. But men don't do "subtle". Nope. They require hard-wired information to get the picture. Precise and to the point.

(Is this sexist?)

reply to post by Jenna


I think it has to do with an erroneous belief of superiority and therefore entitlement by some people. This type of person feels superior to women and so they feel entitled to treat them any way they want.

Lundy Bancroft goes into detail in his book "Why does he do that" as to his thinking about this very issue. I think it may answer your question more fully.

The book is geared towards understanding abusive men and why they do what they do, but it really has some wonderful and thought provoking insights into why anyone is abusive and why they feel some people are "beneath" them.

Harm None
Peace

reply to post by amazed


Can you explain more about what the book proposes as to what the reason is?

My sister in law is with a man I don't think she should be with and his mother has made mention of how she raised her sons to hit a women back if she hits them three times. Sometimes, in such cases it could just be piss poor parenting and upbringing. I was raised to treat all people, not just women with the utmost respect where respect is due of course.

Some people just don't deserve respect, at least that's my perspective.

Originally posted by orangetom1999
The title of the thread...states.."original" thought. Yet in the text of many of the posts the concept switches to "intelligent/intelligence.

Eh, that's just the nature of how threads evolve. I incorporated both in the OP, but not the title. Probably should have, but it's a bit late now.

First off, Jenna, I want to state that my limited experience tells me that intelligence does not always translate directly over to smarts..or even common sense. Neither males or females have a monopoly on this.

Very true. Common sense is lacking on a nationwide level at the least, global at the most.

I do not find this type of textbook conduct to be intelligent nor civil. There is alot of it now days...self promotion at the expense of others.

And that is what I don't understand. I've never been one to try and step on someone else in an effort to just make myself look better. I'll argue my point if I'm sure that I'm right even to the point of repeating myself. But I don't go out of my way to intentionally belittle the person I'm talking to, and I can't understand the mindset required to do so. Perhaps it's just something that I won't be able to understand the motivation for without actually being someone who does it, I dunno.

One area which is difficult to detect on a board like ATS/BTS is ability. All the intelligence or talk if you like..does not translate over to ability in the real world. This is the arena where men and women are going to greatly differ.

I don't see that really as being about intelligence, so much as it is knowledge of a specific area. Men are just as capable of doing interior decorating as women are capable of being mechanics. The only thing they might not have is the desire to do so and the technical knowledge of how it's done. They could learn it if they wanted to though.

This is a huge difference in approach to most events lived daily by the different sexes. Women tend to know this fingerprint with more awareness than do most men...or males. Most women/females I have ever met ..do not clue the males into the knowledge that they work, think, and value by this method...options.

You know, I've actually tried to explain to men (usually my hubby, but other men on occasion) that with some things it's not that I actually want to do them, I just want to have the choice or option to do it. As intense as some of the debates I've had here have been, they pale in comparison to my reaction when someone tells me I can't do something because it's not something women do or can do. Not because I want to do it right then, because I want the option to do it if I decide later on that I want to.

I'm a pretty firm believer that there are few things one gender can do that the other can't. (Getting someone pregnant or breastfeeding for example.) Someone from one gender might be better at it than someone from the opposite gender, but that doesn't mean they're the only ones who can do it. The reaction I usually get when I explain it's not a desire to do whatever it is but a desire to have the option to do it, I usually get blank looks.

The male of today knows more about sports and gadgets than how to maintain what he has. Often someone else must maintain it for him...just like alot of females. In this regard ..equality is definitely happening.
We should be proud of this. Don't you think??

I'm inclined to say not really. Both genders being equal shouldn't mean or require both genders to be the same. We're built differently and compliment each other. For example, I will never be as strong as my hubby is. I'm just not physically capable of it. He on the other hand, has a lot of difficulty squeezing his hands into small spaces. So he'll lift the tank on his motorcycle, and I'll manipulate the gas valve. Our abilities compliment each other and allow us to accomplish a task together that on our own would be more difficult. I see those differences between the sexes as a good thing that shouldn't be lost in an effort to make us all the equals we should already be.

I like to think you know enough about how I think to know this will not be or apply to me.

Not you, no. I just wouldn't want any of the other male posters here to think they'd be accused of something just for daring to make a post here. It would defeat the entire purpose of this thread. Granted I geared it more towards what I've seen said to the female posters here, but really sexism goes both ways and it's not acceptable regardless of who it's target is.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Lol, this is of course a generality and not true of 100% of all males on the planet, but most of the time in my experience that is indeed true. I think this is also why men regard vagueness as passive aggression, too (although sometimes there really is passive aggression, too.)

As a male myself, I do require specificity. Not about all things, but at least when it comes to communication about emotional states, desires, etc. And I actively beseech the women around me to be aware of that, because hooooh boy, some of the miscommunications that have transpired as a result of not doing so!

This is where I think the respect for one another's differences comes in. Whether one believes those differences are gender-specific, or merely specific to the person as an individual (I lean more toward the latter, just because I don't like the idea that men and women are so different even though I know in many ways we probably are,) we should respect and be sensitive to those differences.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


See that right there was sexists/biased of you. Don't confuse us preferring precise and to the point information with us only able to understand precise and to the point information. Men are great thinkers and have no problem comprehending things. We just like things packed neatly sometimes.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by ALlENATlON]

Well Jenna, all I can offer is this:

The very gifted women I know have earned my respect. And the unremarkable men I've seen...haven't.

There are certainly differences, as Camille Paglia pointed out.

She referred to extremists as "grass hut feminists", that is, the man haters who refuse to see men's strengths and who'd end up living in grass huts that wouldn't survive the first rainstorm.

Her assertion was that women don't do teamwork as well as men, and because men adore women we'll carve a nation from a wilderness again and again to make women comfy.

Helen Of Troy may have had a face (and other attributes-wink) that could launch a thousand ships, but the ships contained men who were willing to venture forth to strange lands an unknown perils.

Of course women of the frontier underwent terrible hardships and worked as hard as their menfolk to build shelters and scratch out a living. While most Americans have "gone soft" since then, when my wife gave birth to two babies with no pain meds and never once screamed, I realized then what I'd long suspected-that she is the stronger one. (In a stand up fight I'd better take her out quick or she'll soak up the pain and wait for the chance to do me in!)

Paglia pointed out that men work well in teams to build pyramids and engineering marvels, but (with the possible exception of pro volleyball) there are few examples of women working successfully as a team, at least in the absence of male supervision.

My wife and I have different problem solving skills and in her field (management) she is brilliant. It's very difficult to prove (but easy to say) that women have hardwired limitations because there is so much ingrained cultural programming in the traditional roles we play.

reply to post by ALlENATlON




Would you have noticed it if I hadn't made a little joke of it?
Thanks for pointing it out.

I think you have a good point. (Some) men are kind of threatened by intelligent, leading women, since nature makes man the leader. It's not because those men hate women, it's just a natural, but unfortunate, insecurity.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Probably, but then I probably wouldn't of bothered to respond lol.

2nd line.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
You get challenged and attacked time and time again (because some men had such an emotional and personal reaction to your OP - all the while accusing women of being emotional and taking it personally) and now you want to protect them from being afraid to post here?

I'm not protecting the ones who actually resort to the attacks. That post was my effort to keep the thread from devolving into a mud-slinging match and to make it clear that I wanted opinions from both sides. If it starts to look like the only opinions considered valid are those written by women and/or those bashing men who post, there can't be any actual discussion. A lot of the male posters may leave the thread rather than risk getting attacked just for stating an opinion here and then we lose their perspective. I just wanted to prevent that from happening. Wouldn't not saying something have made me a hypocrite? I thought so when I posted that, and believe me I debated it with myself before actually posting it because I didn't want to be seen as just taking up for the guys either.

I think this illustrates a major problem. And that is that the expectations that some men have of women are FAR higher or more strict than those they have of themselves. It's a double standard that SHOULD be brought to light, not hidden, so the guys won't be afraid to post. They weren't afraid to post a few pages back. They had plenty to say.

That was also prior to any posts that actually linked to evidence of the comments I talked about in the OP, and before the attacks in this thread started. Posts before those things doesn't mean that the posts would continue if the thread turned into hostile territory for all things male.

And if the double standard ISN'T pointed out as nunya13 tries to point out, no one is ever going to see it and it will be pushed under the rug again.

Agreed. I actually hadn't seen any of the threads you just linked to. We both know I'm a loud mouth (it's ok, I admit it ) and had I seen them, I would've said something.

I don't think it's helpful to make your claim and then not be willing to state exactly what the problem is. And show examples. Men need that. I know you don't want to appear to be an ass, and I respect that. But if you just state things as a general problem without specifics, then how are these men supposed to understand what you're talking about? And if you protect their feelings by NOT being specific, who can blame them for getting angry

That really is my problem, actually. I want to draw attention to it, obviously since I started a thread about it, but at the same time I don't want to appear to be targeting all men or appear to be using a thread to attack someone over what they've posted in another thread when I'm not doing either. So the problem I've been debating with myself since I started the thread is how to get the point across and give examples without pointing fingers and looking like I'm just attacking the ones who made the posts. That's why I put that list of comments in the OP. Some were slightly rephrased for brevity, but others were darn near verbatim. So the examples are there for those that want to see them for what they are.

reply to post by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
I don't recall a sexist remark every being made towards me on the forum, but then maybe I was to stupid to notice.

Perhaps those whizzing sounds you heard shooting over your head weren't actually bottle rockets after all.

On topic:

After reviewing some of the links provided in this thread, it is clear to see some baiting and zingers hurled from both sides.

Case in point:

Originally posted by Jenna
Sexist comments such as that are the mark of someone who needs a reality check, not a female who dares to discuss military issues. It doesn't take testes to understand them, nor are "neutral topics" more suitable for discussion by females just because they have ovaries.

Just pointing that out in the spirit of objectivity.

I didn’t participate in that thread, I was at the monthly “He Man Woman Haters” meeting.

I kid.


[edit on 7-5-2010 by kinda kurious]

I think the most basic, general answer, is that they are afraid of their mothers.

A general tendency, common to the world is the use of misdirection. Avoid the real subject by guilt trips, etc.. Take "Illegal Immigration" claims on ATS of entitlement because someones ancestors weren't born in the Americas or that someones ancestors where born somewhere else in the Americas. Completely irrelevant but used over and over to keep people on the defensive. God knows how many misdirections the Homosexual community has used on ATS. When you look at the number of efforts the Gays have used to emotionally compel people to their side you see the poisonous effect of homosexuality on the emotions and intelligence of males. The is generally viewed as feminizing the male.

I believe there is a general belief that most women are more interested in "Feeling" the right way than doing the right thing. They are more interested in seeing that the nest is at peace even if it means tolerating, forgiving, accepting degradation. That woman are more interested in voting for Obama because it would feel good to "right the wrong" by having a black president or a women president. Never mind who and what they are and their agenda. The decline of the uSA is also viewed, in no small part, as being do to women having the right to vote. In an age where "Feeling" (social engineering) is the goal and men are neutered towards that end, the differences in this area often seem blurred. No question it was a pack of men that connived and cultivated the problem of today from the fabrication of the uSA to the civil war and post civil war corporations, creating the Federal Reserve over and over again to war. However, there is also a belief that behind the scenes is a "Satanic" organization that is matriarchal in nature. Women are associated strongest with "Maya" or the power of illusion and deception.

Woman do think and can think and both man and woman are both desperate to belong and find approval. I think men have a much stronger impulse to want to "take out the trash" and that is health, natural and greatly undermined. Both masculine and feminine energy is at work in everyone. Some of the most "aware" people I know are female. I think it's unfortunate that some man can't stand with confidence and have to resort to undermining half the population. Again, for the most part it's done because they're afraid of their mother which tends to mean she didn't encourage their masculine self esteem or their fathers degraded their wives feminine self esteem and fed them a bad example.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
I like men, truly I do. But men don't do "subtle". Nope. They require hard-wired information to get the picture. Precise and to the point.

I read my whole post to my husband before I posted it and he agreed with it. That's not saying he represents all men, he doesn't, but I wanted to check with him and see if he thought it was a true, in general terms.

(Is this sexist?)

I don't think so. It's not demeaning. Men and women are wired differently. I love men for how they're wired, especially since I understand them better than I used to. It takes a lot of bumping up against each other's "stuff" to learn how to understand each other as the genders that we are.

What you said isn't any more sexist that stating that women are multi-taskers. Or women are more verbal. It's just true. That's where political correctness goes too far, IMO. When people get too sensitive to ANY generalization, that they call "Sexist"! just because someone made a generalization. Someone mentioned the book - Men are From Mars, Women Are From Venus - Hey, it's true. But they go together like art.

Originally posted by Jenna
I'm inclined to say not really. Both genders being equal shouldn't mean or require both genders to be the same. We're built differently and compliment each other. For example, I will never be as strong as my hubby is. I'm just not physically capable of it. He on the other hand, has a lot of difficulty squeezing his hands into small spaces. So he'll lift the tank on his motorcycle, and I'll manipulate the gas valve. Our abilities compliment each other and allow us to accomplish a task together that on our own would be more difficult. I see those differences between the sexes as a good thing that shouldn't be lost in an effort to make us all the equals we should already be.

That is so beautifully said! I agree completely! It's very cool how men and women work together. Each is different, but as important to the whole as the other.

reply to post by Jenna


I see your point and I really appreciate your position. Really great thread!