Teapartiers: What an outrage!

Everyone keeps going off facts. C'mon Janky, there is a line in the legislation that STATES that this only applies to CURRENT LAWFUL interface with the police and the government.

Everyone keeps bypassing this, or is it called? Obfuscation.

No one wants to take the law or existing laws at their face value but would pander on into the realm of lunacy to justify their point or prolong the argument.

Ahem....

Truck driver forced to show birth certificate claims racial-profiling

Nope, legal citizens sure won't be forced to show their birth certificates based on the color of their skin. I'm just imagining things.

Originally posted by skunknuts

Originally posted by prionace glauca
Its about time someone finally reinforced the law. Now if we can get some law enforcement men more like Sheriff Arpaio. He knows how to stand up to people who are against true reform.

I knew you would be one to choose 'law and order' George Wallace style, over liberty and the constitution.

Best,
Skunknuts

Something must be done immediately ... We are in dire desperate state AND this can be repealed in the future.

State laws are regularly repealed MUCH easier than FED.LAW

The feds are absolutely out to lunch on this issue. Border states are desperate for relief.

It's done.

Edit to add: Wow 18 pages already!! This will be going on for sometime I'm sure. To paraphrase the spirit of Obama "They won and it's done. Shut Up Cry Babies"


[edit on 4·22·10 by DrMattMaddix]

reply to post by Torgo


I see... thanks for clarifying that

Two big questions back on topic....

What do Teapartiers have anything to do with State level laws? I think most of them want to see a small Fed and a larger state government as a constitutionalist would want.

As example, if a state wanted a socialized healthcare system let them vote on it, and not blanket all America with a program that will surly waste billions in never makeing it to the people who need the care. At least at the state level it would be focused on what they need.

Some states are dying a slow death due to the 100s of millions they end up spending on illegals and the fed is doing absolutely nothing to fix this problem, so what do they do? I’m sure everyone of us sees the issues with this bill, but they need to do something, and when the problem gets this serious that is starts to cost Americans a portion of their freedoms then we have a really big problem, but once again the fed feels that nothing is the right choice.

So with that said, how does AZ fix their problem? Can any of you come up with an answer? At least if we had a robust alien documenting program the system would not only pay for itself but secure our borders in the process, but funds and manpower is needed to do this.


[edit on 22-4-2010 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Xtrozero
So with that said, how does AZ fix their problem? Can any of you come up with an answer?

There have been several posts already with suggestions. They've been lost in the shuffle in favor of arguing that no federal help is required to handle illegal immigration.

reply to post by skunknuts

Here is an issue that separates the true libertarian Ron Paul tea-partiers from the authoritarian Sarah Palin republican in sheep's clothing tea-baggers.

Let's see who is brave and principled enough to step up and defend their supposed principles (even when it's tough and goes against the republican game plan)....

Why don't you just worry about how the liberal left-wingers are going to step up and oppose this measure, if you feel so strongly about it?

I never understand people like you, that are so fast to call others out instead of taking care of business yourself. :shk:

Originally posted by Jenna
There have been several posts already with suggestions. They've been lost in the shuffle in favor of arguing that no federal help is required to handle illegal immigration.

But AZ can only do things that affect AZ. First they can't start their own worker visa program that would pay for all of it and even if they could pay for a secured border (which they can't) there are three other states that would still have basically open borders.

Also when you have a million or more illegals already in your state how do you identify them to get them out?

Right now there is some privacy issues that create a very secure situation for illegals to not only live here, but use our schools and services without fear of discovery. They could focus it more on a person that must provide proof of citizenship to use schools, hospitals emer rooms, services, work etc, but then we would be also profiling the poor.


Very hard thing to figure out when you do not want to profile, but the group you are trying to find are 98% Mexican.


[edit on 23-4-2010 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero


I posted several suggestions that I'm fairly confident Arizona could do on their own. It's a bit of a long post, so rather than quote it or repost it here's the link.

the tea part is a big joke. its old news also

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I posted several suggestions that I'm fairly confident Arizona could do on their own. It's a bit of a long post, so rather than quote it or repost it here's the link.

I agree with the fines, and also have fines that grow the more a company is caught using illegals along with the company is added to a list that they get frequent unannounced visits as part of their fine. A bunch of your other suggestions are hand tied due to privacy laws. Also one of the big issues is many Mexican Americans work within the system, but are extremely bias and corrupt.

I have to wonder how long the republicans can get away with attacking illegal imigrants personally but almost completely ignored the companies that hired them the entire time they were in power.

Its a pretty obvious political ploy. Would have been pretty damn easy to enforce it from the employer side, but they didnt want to.

reply to post by Xtrozero


When we had that big windstorm a few years back in my area, my county qualified for emergency assistance. My power was knocked out for over a week, so I qualified for emergency food stamps (one time only to replace what was lost). In order to actually get it, there was a stack of paperwork to fill out and I had to give them the social security number of everyone in my household.

They checked all of them and almost turned me away because someone else had used my youngest's SSN. Turned out to be a typo and someone else's number had been put in wrong thankfully, but my point is that they already check your SSN when you apply for government assistance. Checking to make sure that it doesn't belong to someone who is deceased and that it wasn't recently issued to an infant while you're in your 30's wouldn't invade anyone's privacy any more than checking to see if it's a valid number and/or already in use does.

I've never been arrested, so I'm not 100% certain what exactly they check and what they don't aside from whether or not you have any warrants and running your prints. But really, if you've been arrested and they're checking everything else is it really an invasion of privacy to have your SSN checked for validity too?

Same goes for the ER. I've always been asked to verify my SSN and other info when I or my children have to go to the ER. They've already got it. Verifying that the name and SSN match isn't really an invasion of privacy to me.

Originally posted by sos37

Originally posted by Angus123
Oh for fake jeebuz sake! You know what? Everyone yiping that this is about illegal aliens is wrong. It's about YOU. The born here American Citizen.

You can be walking down the street, obeying the law minding your own damn business and under this law you can be stopped with no probable cause and have to prove your citizenship. Left your proof at home? Too damn bad Billy Bob... we're going downtown!
Yee-haw! Now that's M'urkan aint it? The Founding Fathers would pimp slap every one of you advocating this.

All this talk about the Constitution being in line with that is garbage. These lawmakers proposing this are wiping their fat rumps with it.

And before some constitutional genius comes out and says if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about, don't bother...

That is ALWAYS what the populace says before they allow REAL tyrants to take over.

Dip your tea bags in that why don'tcha?

And you know what your biggest asset is going to be in that case? A firm grasp of the English language!

A born-here American citizen is going to know how to speak English and recite their ABCs with no problem and probably tell the officer what was on TV last night, their favorite shows, their favorite foods, etc.

You're acting like these cops are robots with no common sense, not human beings who can think for themselves.

If I get stopped or pulled over for no other reason than the cop wants to see where I'm from I'm gonna be pissed, and whether they can think for themselves is immaterial.

Giving the government the authority to stop anyone, even for a moment on their whim is giving them too much power.

And maybe you've never experienced it, but a lot of cops can be real jerks that enjoy abusing their authority.

reply to post by candide


Maybe if you read the law that is being passed YOU WILL SEE that there are PROVISIONS to punish employers.

But NO need to seek out the truth, just jump on the bandwagon.

It is always better that way, no need to ACTUALLY spread truth, just more obfuscations to further the Dem Repub LIE.

reply to post by skunknuts


If I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on the Tea Party to get unified behind any specific issue. According to almost every poll I've seen, they are almost evenly divided on every issue except for their hatred for president Obama.

However, I believe that like their hatred of Obama, they also express a level of hatred towards immigrants that will probably make it impossible for them to do anything other than support this legislation.

It seems apparent that "Hypocrisy" is the foundation of their platform while hate and fear is their message. Oh yeah, and they never let facts get in their way.

Originally posted by skunknuts

Originally posted by prionace glauca
Its about time someone finally reinforced the law. Now if we can get some law enforcement men more like Sheriff Arpaio. He knows how to stand up to people who are against true reform.

I knew you would be one to choose 'law and order' George Wallace style, over liberty and the constitution.

Best,
Skunknuts

Where in the Constitution does it say a state can't uphold Federal Laws because the Federal Government doesn't? If anything this is the state using the Constitution. Even people like Adam Smith believed in policing, to protext people from each other. Hrm. Huffington Post isn't a good news source either, their spin on this is about as hard as NRO's spin on Obamacare.

I believe it should be easier to obtain legal citizenship, as it takes up to a year or more because of all the government red tape (yes, government). However, until that is fixed, I support Arizona in their efforts.

[edit on 23-4-2010 by yellowcard]

Originally posted by Flatfish
reply to post by skunknuts

 

If I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on the Tea Party to get unified behind any specific issue. According to almost every poll I've seen, they are almost evenly divided on every issue except for their hatred for president Obama.

However, I believe that like their hatred of Obama, they also express a level of hatred towards immigrants that will probably make it impossible for them to do anything other than support this legislation.

It seems apparent that "Hypocrisy" is the foundation of their platform while hate and fear is their message. Oh yeah, and they never let facts get in their way.

Yes, exactly, which is why Tea Partiers are all over the media calling people nazis, racists, bigots and uneducated slackjawed rednecks......oh wait

reply to post by candide

I have to wonder how long the republicans can get away with attacking illegal imigrants personally but almost completely ignored the companies that hired them the entire time they were in power.

Well, Obama has shown that he is quite anti-business. So we can expect him to jump all over those companies that hire illegals, right?