An American calling his Government out!

Originally posted by havanaja

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Yeah I have served....



You are going to force some sort of half-assed Health Care reform that we have to pay for whether we like it or not whether we are sick or in need or not. Whether we can afford it or not...

[edit on 23-3-2010 by SLAYER69]

.... the statement of why should anyone be part of a health care system and pay "whether we are sick or in need or not" is not only selfish and self-defeating for the powerless, but it illustrates how America has lost any understanding of how real health coverage should work...by maximizing the buying power of the whole group.....

But it really doesnt maximize the buying power of the group in this case in a pure way. It still boils down to some paying more than others. Some groups paying more than other groups.

The more folks ridding on the wagon with fewer and fewer horses pulling the load. Or the bigger the horse the more he is required to pull.

Insurance Companies, Health Care Industry and the Government are all ridding while the horses pull. Animal Farm.

From an outsider I see this as yet another piece of legislation for the federal government to make in-roads into state government to supersede the states and federalize the whole country... Turning you from the United States of America to the federal Republic of America.... I think this is the ultimate aim and legislation like the health bill is a Trojan horse to do it...

I also see it as another tax to prop up the boys in wall street.... To fill up the social fund that previous administrations have raided for various wars and then hand that over to their bum chums who bankrolled them into power..

I hope I am wrong and this is a great thing for America but I just don't see it...

Finally, I have read a few comments on our system in the UK, but what they do not see is that the British NHS was set up in the 40's when politicians still had a modicum of integrity and the UK had community cohesion... We do not anymore with the flood of foreigners who are clogging up the system for those who HAVE paid into it, depleting our already stretched resources and making our current financial situation worse...

Beware America..... I believe Obama's administration to be a clear and present danger to the American people...

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_SmurfYes I know it has been painfully obvious to me that the government has been shafting everyone with onerous taxes for multiple decades. Its that any good reason to continue piling it on? I think not. we need to be reducing the tax burden and not increasing it.

You're not going to shape the argument with me into some anti-war rant so give it up.

Its always for the children isn't it? Always for the children.... I am responsible for my child's future and not the federal government. My children's future is secured and I don't need the federal government in there mucking it up. Why do you think its necessary to turn to the government for your future? Can you not hack it on your own?

What they need to do is reduce military spending by 2% or even 1%. That would provide every American with more health coverage than they'll ever need, and be so slight any war effort wouldn't be affected. Countries do need a military, and will have to engage in wars from time to time, It's just the priorities that are screwed up in the US. And spare me the whole diatribe about only taking care of your own and not caring about anyone else. That mentality has no place among civilized people and belongs in the wilderness.

The taxes you pay aren't rent for living in your country, they're one of the many ways people can have better lives working together with their fellow countrymen than they would on their own, IF, and i stress IF, the taxes are spent the way they're intended to, on making the country a better place to live for taxpayers, and don't just become the plaything of corporations and politicians.

Originally posted by Night Star

I don't yet know how this new healthcare plan of Obama's will affect us all, but you have to start somewhere. We can always fight for a better plan.

Fight for a better plan? I am almost speechless - on what issue is your government listening to the people? What demonstrations have successfully altered any policy?

You are dreaming.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Slayer i agree with everything you said...

But in my 'ignorance' - i fail to see why you don't want health care for those who cannot afford it?

You'd think in a time like this, those without money (lost jobs, homes etc) would be relying on their fellow man to assist them...?

The America i was raised in requires that each man and woman stand on their own and make it work. The poor get healthcare, and we still pay for it. It is called ER and Freeclinic.

We need reform, but we don't need free lunch. There is a difference that i think most people don't understand.

your problem is with doctors who have raised their costs by 300% or more in the last 10 years.

Good work, Slayer. You are a patriot, and i thank you for yours and your families service to my beloved nation. If i could change one decision in my life, it would be to have done my service as well. If i were half the man at 18 that i am now, perhaps i would have.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Get ready because Anesty is next to secure enough voters for the next election..............and then a MAJOR dismantling of the Military - to fund "A Civilian Military:
Quote
"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

Hell lies just beyond next year!

reply to post by SLAYER69


First I agree with you,we have been asleep and takeing our freedoms for granted for to long.We were warned about this in the 60s by the Russians of all people and now we are liveing the nightmear.

I heard something this AM that brought it all together (for me anyway).The AT from Texas was talking about the lawsuits that are now being filed and how it will be new territory for the Suprime Court and if they say that the congress has the right to make us pay for our healthcare in spite of the 10th amendment it will give the Congress uncontrolable powers to do anything they want and it won't matter who is in office.

For those of you that think its great to have to pay for someones healthcare, I ask where does it stop??Healthcare today what tomorrow??You already know that a politcian will sell his or her mother for a vote,what will they give away next election or bill to pass??

If any of you know math at all you know that the insurance companys can't pay for all the people that have a life long illness,they are a buisness no matter what we think of them,so the next best thing is the tax payer,how much do we pay before were broke,I hope all you pro healthcare people are working so the IRS will come knoking on your door when this healthcare plan starts to fall apart and they just keep raiseing the cost to keep the dream alive but I think that the majority of Pro healthcare people are deadbeats just looking for the handout like always.

Want to neutralize tyranny? Check this out!

“The Solution” by Schaeffer Cox
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P.S. Slayer69, thank-you for the intrepid post.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by seasoul]

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

This is what happens when the People elect those that do not serve their Best Interests .

Thats right, blame yourself, or each other - thats exactly what the scum want.

You have scum ruling over you because your electoral system is totally corrupted - candidates are bought, only the selected candidates get good press - the rest get slandered (have a look at what Ron Paul endured) - if that doesn't work, they rig the voting machines.

If you want to blame yourselves - then you can say "It is our fault, because we didn't have an armed revolution." Anything less than that is not likely to effect any changes.

You need to take your government back by force - anything else is just a fantasy.

Originally posted by biochemky
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

I LOVED your post. Where do I sign up to help "right the wrongs"?

Can you please tell me who you might consider voting for in 2012 for President.

There is only one legitimate choice if he is still running - and that is Ron Paul.

Originally posted by Risen

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_SmurfYes I know it has been painfully obvious to me that the government has been shafting everyone with onerous taxes for multiple decades. Its that any good reason to continue piling it on? I think not. we need to be reducing the tax burden and not increasing it.

You're not going to shape the argument with me into some anti-war rant so give it up.

Its always for the children isn't it? Always for the children.... I am responsible for my child's future and not the federal government. My children's future is secured and I don't need the federal government in there mucking it up. Why do you think its necessary to turn to the government for your future? Can you not hack it on your own?

What they need to do is reduce military spending by 2% or even 1%. That would provide every American with more health coverage than they'll ever need, and be so slight any war effort wouldn't be affected. Countries do need a military, and will have to engage in wars from time to time, It's just the priorities that are screwed up in the US. And spare me the whole diatribe about only taking care of your own and not caring about anyone else. That mentality has no place among civilized people and belongs in the wilderness.

The taxes you pay aren't rent for living in your country, they're one of the many ways people can have better lives working together with their fellow countrymen than they would on their own, IF, and i stress IF, the taxes are spent the way they're intended to, on making the country a better place to live for taxpayers, and don't just become the plaything of corporations and politicians.

Taxes are not a path for people to have better lives. Thats socialism and tyrannical and you are an obvious sucker for their propaganda. The taxes I pay are also not a free ride for people of lesser fortune either. The lifestyle of my fellow countrymen is up to my fellow countrymen. I don't care what thy do as long as it doesn't pick my pocket. Furthermore the mentality of caring for my own is as civilized as it gets. If something is taking from me and given to others then I cannot take care of my own.

You do now realize that since the government is in the business of peoples health they have a vested interest in people being healthy ( See the Nazi party ) and will do that what they must to MAKE people healthy. They will now try to regulate everything you put in your body, put on your body, your recreation, so on an so forth. Healthcare is NOT about healthcare. You seem to be smart enough to see that but alas your compassion makes you blind to their real intentions.



[edit on 23-3-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

Originally posted by jsmappy
Get ready because Anesty is next to secure enough voters for the next election..............and then a MAJOR dismantling of the Military - to fund "A Civilian Military:
Quote
"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

Hell lies just beyond next year!

We need these illegals for obama's Civilian Military and what ever he directs them to do. It is so nice to live in a land where votes can be bought and secret backroom deals are the norm. No matter if we lose our AAA credit rating in the near future obama is still our socialistic leader. ^Y^

To: Slayer69

I completing understand your pain. I have served, I have paid more than my fair share of taxes (as like everyone else). I also am tired to all the BS that the current GOV is pulling on the American people.

Come November I will be voting out all those who I deem unfit to serve our interest.

Good for you to get it off of your chest Slayer.
I personally wonder though how much more people in our line of business can take before someone really starts organizing and implementing force against said problems.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Americans are stupid and psychotic. It must be the additives in our food. Threads like this one reveal the wild diconnect in logic and rational thinking. You say, fine to the invasion of other countries leading to deaths of thousands of Americans, not to mention the tens of thousands of people minding there own business in their homes there. But pay a little to save more and do it in the interests of helping your fellow Americans stay alive and healthy and you go fuc*ing crazy and act like it is the end of the world.

This can only be suscribed to actual mass hysteria among the Right and cultist evanglicals. Maybe as part of your indoctrination into the evangelical cult you were fed a hypnotic code -- healthcare -- word that sends you into total hysterics.

I am at a loss to explain in because for sure our reaction is completely insane.

Well done Slayer.

I certainly hope that more real patriots stand up to this blatant theft and black mail surrounding this bill.

This certainly could be the beginning of the revolution.

~Keeper

No offense to you OP, as It is admirable to have served. With that being said...

If everyone had said NO to these:

you wanted wars for resources FINE we said.... You said there was a bogyman out there that we needed to blow the crap out of FINE we said....

Then we could afford health care.

Too bad we had to waste our surplus and become entrenched in debt over "resources" and "bogymen".

Why is it that relatively few quietly object to this money sucking, debt digging military SNAFU; which gave the US citizens nothing of a tangible or positive nature.

Yet when we spend money on health care, the masses cry foul from the roof tops.

Granted, we are deep in debt, and this will cost us even more (although it allegedly will save money over the long haul)...but gawd forbid we spend money within our own borders for the benefit and justice of our citizens.

In closing, I would like to give a couple of quotes:

“The Greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals* are treated.” -Mahatma Gandhi

"He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action. It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." -Albert Einstein

Peace



* Insert citizens, as it still has the same connotation

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_SmurfTaxes are not a path for people to have better lives. Thats socialism and tyrannical and you are an obvious sucker for their propaganda. The taxes I pay are also not a free ride for people of lesser fortune either. The lifestyle of my fellow countrymen is up to my fellow countrymen. I don't care what thy do as long as it doesn't pick my pocket. The mentality of caring for my own is as civilized as it gets. If something is taking from me and given to others then I cannot take care of my own.

The idea that socialism is just about spending tax dollars on tax payers is ridiculous. I've actually been to places like Cuba and know what socialism is first hand. When they start taking your children away to work camps for months at a time, and everything from the cars people drive to the houses they live in is government property then you can start using that term. Until then, everyone who uses that term so freely should stop embarassing themselves.

In countries like the US, the taxpayers hire leaders to work for them. It's all about us, and the taxes we give them are supposed to be put towards making the country a better place for the people they work for, us.

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_SmurfYou do now realize that since the government is in the business of peoples health they have a vested interest in people being healthy ( See the Nazi party ) and will do that what they must to MAKE people healthy.

If any of that was true, the private healthcare system would have worked better. Everytime a person gets diagnosed with cancer and has to pay 50k or more a year in 'treatment' drugs the GDP of a country goes up.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by Risen]

For this topic, I will bring up some ugly truths about the reality of America.

1) The Government has every legal authority to pretty much do as it pleases. If you think not, then the Patriot Act, Medicare Part D, and many Supreme Court judgments will not change your mind (or some haven't been paying attention).

2) All that's needed is a small foot in the door. A large part of health care is already paid for by the government, directly. I've heard 50% but have not verified it, although I've done cursory searches. Once the foot is there, it can not be removed easily. I've been against Social Security almost my entire life, and even the "conservatives" find it deadly to mess with, if not nearly impossible to remove although it could be quite easy.

3) If you think voting out incumbents will work, it won't. I've watched the process happen many times and can verify this.

4) The Tea Party is a bad group to associate with for obvious reasons. The media is in collusion with TPTB to frame government opponents and strong detractors however they see fit.

5) The average joe does NOT pay attention, has not paid attention, and in most circumstances will not ever pay attention, barring serious upheaval.

6) The Federal Government has been primarily extra-Constitutional for 100 years or more. The Constitution began being subverted almost as soon as the ink was dry.

7) The Educational system is downright terrible to be kind. It's broken and can not be simply fixed.

8) With some common State-level legislation, health care could be brought to reasonable levels almost immediately. These obvious changes would not hamper business for the insurance companies and would benefit the average person.

These ideas were not even mentioned, by anyone with any voice.

I'm sorry to say these things, but someone has to. I hear a lot of talk, but I've heard lots of talk for a great many years about a great many topics and nothing changes.

It only gets worse and the Federal Government wins practically every time.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by KrazyJethro]

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