An American calling his Government out!

reply to post by pajoly


P2

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

End of Part 2

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW


"None of those things you listed should have ever been fine. It was all crap. This health care issue is a pile of S*** on top of many piles of S***. Why you wouldn't be as incensed at those former things as much as you appear to be about this, makes me scratch my head."

It makes me scratch my head too. The only thing that is different is that "their" guy -- a good ol' boy from TX (nevermind GW's cowboy act was just that, an act, he was a coward and rich daddy's boy patrician from CT) -- is not at the helm. At the helm now is a guy from another party who looks really different than the other guy.

The fact is Obama's policies are actually more fiscally conservative than Bush's, so in the end there is possibly only one REASON why evangelicals are in wild hysterics now: someone different and not from their team is running the show. Whether that points to people just not liking a black guy as president or just not accepting a democrat, the facts are that it points to intolerance at least and certainly irrationality and ignorance.

You know what annoys me most? Its not this bill.

It is the people going against this bill. What is a more noble cause than the health care of your own people? We must take small steps before we can completely overhaul a corrupt healthcare system. The minority republicans can only say NO to every idea the democratic majority has. They resort to flame wars, name calling, etc, etc to try to derail progress and prevent the scum that is the current healthcare system from being reformed.

Where were you when our constitutional rights were denied by the patriot act?
Where were you when Bush and Cheney brought us into two false wars?
Why is the cost of 10 years of human health equal to the costs of ONE YEAR of the Military budget?

The list goes on, far on.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by Takamuri]

Well more and more physicians are starting to declare their right to NOT participate and be FORCED to work for government bureaucrats!

Zindo




[edit on 3/23/2010 by ZindoDoone]

Your article is about physicians declaring independence from insurers. The very system the government is trying to fix. Not about government sponsored healthcare being the issue.
EDIT: Looks like the article was edited out.

I would love to see the republicans try to repeal this bill.

Republicans: You can now be denied for pre-existing conditions.
Republicans: You can now be denied because you are old.
Republicans: You will now have no assistance from the government, and you will go bankrupt if you get sick.

I love republican talking points.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by Takamuri]

[edit on 23-3-2010 by Takamuri]

reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf


I've just decided to put Thirty_Foot_Smurf on ignore to increase the intelligence of the threads. He has been polluting with rampant ignorance. he does not know how the legislative process works or even how our government balance of power is divided (he thinks we have Upper and Lower houses of Congress). He does not understand the simple concept of taxation for basic services. he does not understand anything about the Commerce clause or the most remedial elements of the Constitution.

His posts are not elevating or contributing to any threads. Go read some books kid. Until then, you go ignore.

Originally posted by Logarock

Where have you been man? A single mom has been for a good while now eligible for a very healthy package of governemt supports. Totaly 100% coverage of medical for the children, housing, food, daycare, education for her.

Where exactly does this happen? The way our government sees it, if you're working you probably make too much to receive any help. Have you looked at the income guidelines to receive any help at all?

For food stamps, oh sorry they changed the name to SNAP, you can't have:

1. More than $2000 in resources, including money in the bank and your car unless it's used for long distance travel to work, or brings in income.
   
2. An income of more than $1984 gross or $1526 net for a family of three. That's $496 gross and $381 net a week.
   

So if you managed to save up more than $2000 before things got rough for you and have been using it to make ends meet, you won't qualify for food stamps because of it. No matter that it's the only reason you aren't eating out of dumpsters yet. So no, that single mother with two kids isn't getting any help if she's trying to help herself. She only gets it if she does nothing more than work part time at McDonald's.

The programs we already have are broken and don't help people that actually just need a hand up to get back on track. They help the people who do nothing but sit around and pop out as many kids as possible so they get more benefits. It's not hard to spot those people either. They're the ones in Walmart buying two carts of food at a time, wearing nice clothes with their hair fixed and acrylic nails on their hands, while the kids they have with them haven't had a bath in days and are lucky to have on a shirt over their diaper let alone pants or shoes.

How is adding yet another broken program to the mix a good thing? Medicare/medicaid are abused and fraud is running rampant in them. The post office doesn't have enough money coming in to cover expenses and have been talking about lowering the number of days they deliver mail. The transportation department can't keep up with the rate roads are deteriorating where I live. The FDA for all their requirements can't keep tainted food from hitting the market. Everything the government touches goes south. Yet now they're putting themselves in charge of everyone's health care.

The government is like a kid who stole their daddy's credit card. They're running through the store yelling "Ooh, I like that. Let's buy that one!" and not worrying about the fact that they've reached the limit on the card or about who is going to pay it all back. They sure aren't going to suffer for their actions, but the rest of us sure will.

Originally posted by Risen

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_SmurfTaxes are not a path for people to have better lives. Thats socialism and tyrannical and you are an obvious sucker for their propaganda. The taxes I pay are also not a free ride for people of lesser fortune either. The lifestyle of my fellow countrymen is up to my fellow countrymen. I don't care what thy do as long as it doesn't pick my pocket. The mentality of caring for my own is as civilized as it gets. If something is taking from me and given to others then I cannot take care of my own.

The idea that socialism is just about spending tax dollars on tax payers is ridiculous. I've actually been to places like Cuba and know what socialism is first hand. When they start taking your children away to work camps for months at a time, and everything from the cars people drive to the houses they live in is government property then you can start using that term. Until then, everyone who uses that term so freely should stop embarassing themselves.

In countries like the US, the taxpayers hire leaders to work for them. It's all about us, and the taxes we give them are supposed to be put towards making the country a better place for the people they work for, us.

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_SmurfYou do now realize that since the government is in the business of peoples health they have a vested interest in people being healthy ( See the Nazi party ) and will do that what they must to MAKE people healthy.

If any of that was true, the private healthcare system would have worked better. Everytime a person gets diagnosed with cancer and has to pay 50k or more a year in 'treatment' drugs the GDP of a country goes up.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by Risen]

They had to get there somehow didnt they? All signpost point to us being on the same path. Federal taxes are NOT supposed to be there to make out lives better. Actually state and local are supposed to do that. Once the federal government stars spreading the wealth around by implementing confiscatory taxes what's even the point of having States anymore? You're probably even the type that agrees that the Senate and Congress are the ones that give us our rights too are you?

And my last comment is absolutely true. You obviously don't know enough about the subject.

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

 

I've just decided to put Thirty_Foot_Smurf on ignore to increase the intelligence of the threads. He has been polluting with rampant ignorance. he does not know how the legislative process works or even how our government balance of power is divided (he thinks we have Upper and Lower houses of Congress). He does not understand the simple concept of taxation for basic services. he does not understand anything about the Commerce clause or the most remedial elements of the Constitution.

His posts are not elevating or contributing to any threads. Go read some books kid. Until then, you go ignore.

HA Ha Ha! Another one Bites the dust! Cant Take the heat....

And for the record its the HOUSE...There IS and upper an lower HOUSE
( Senate=upper Congress=lower ) ...Boy you stepped in that one..



[edit on 23-3-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Americans are stupid and psychotic. It must be the additives in our food. Threads like this one reveal the wild diconnect in logic and rational thinking. You say, fine to the invasion of other countries leading to deaths of thousands of Americans, not to mention the tens of thousands of people minding there own business in their homes there. But pay a little to save more and do it in the interests of helping your fellow Americans stay alive and healthy and you go fuc*ing crazy and act like it is the end of the world.

This can only be suscribed to actual mass hysteria among the Right and cultist evanglicals. Maybe as part of your indoctrination into the evangelical cult you were fed a hypnotic code -- healthcare -- word that sends you into total hysterics.

I am at a loss to explain in because for sure our reaction is completely insane.

haha very well said. Couldn't have put it better myself really...

reply to post by mr-lizard


@mr-lizard, I have been dealing with this issue locally here in the Seattle area. The examples I’m going to give are specific to Washington State. Those of you living elsewhere will have to do your own research regarding specific law in your area.

The Commerce Clause is an enumerated power listed in the United States Constitution (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3). The clause states that the United States Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes". This can't even be loosely interpreted as meaning that the federal government has any authority whatsoever to involve itself in healthcare.

This power IS clearly mentioned in the Washington State Constitution, however. Article 20, Section 2. "Regulations concerning Medicine, Surgery, and Pharmacy. The legislature shall enact laws to regulate the practice of medicine and surgery, and the sale of drugs and medicines."

This is not a Federal issue. It's a State issue, as clearly defined in our own state Constitution. Attorney General Rob McKenna is RIGHT to file this lawsuit. This is a STATE right, and not a FEDERAL right.

The legislators you need to be furious with are your own State legislators for failing to provide better healthcare options within our state under Article 20, Section 2.

As you can clearly see, mr-lizard, this is a State Right, as granted in the Tenth Amendment of the US Constitution. I’m not about to deny someone health care. I want to make sure that everyone gets the help they need. I believe that the individual States are the ones that need to handle this issue, and that the People have forgotten, by and large, that the States have Constitutions as well and that the States need to abide by them.

I do not believe the federal government has the authority to do what they did. I don’t believe that the system they signed into law is the system that’ll work for the people. It is my opinion that the best solution is one supported by law. In my case, that is my State Constitution, as defined above.

Best wishes all.

I was never fine with half the crap being passed since 911.

When it becomes law, you can complain all you want. Break the Law, Police and military will beat you down.

This is good..... a former enforcer "waking up".

Just remember were all trained now. Police and citizens alike

Stay in your free speech zones!!!

Follow the laws!!! Or get beaten, pepper sprayed and locked up.

Remember police are "doing there job" upholding the law when there beating you and pepper spraying you in a protest. Dont get mad Ok.

Watching you right wing guys wake up is going to be a blast.

Break the Right-left paradigm now... please... before we lose this republic.

Our Gov. no longer answers to its people...Call em out if you want....Our reps. are listening with their pocket books......You will be ignored....Oh, and your a racist now if you say anything bad....This is going to be HOOT I tell ya.....

Oh and Beck is a Shill ignore him please (suggestion to right wing awakees)

Only listen to AJ when your fully awake...or you will get lost...he will confuse newcomers to reality. Good info, bad presentation. Too much God...

Enjoy your awakening try not to get frustrated...take it slow..Relax...stay away from firearms for a few days.....dont do anything irrational.

And overall.... welcome to reality. Maybe your government Brainwashing is wearing off...Seriously....who knows.

Look into all the nice experiments the Gov has performed on you and your military brethren.....after you cool off.

My thoughts are with you, and your serving relatives...I hope your boys come home safely. And remember "we the people" appreciate your service....your another # to the Gov..

Good Luck

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by Logarock

Where have you been man? A single mom has been for a good while now eligible for a very healthy package of governemt supports. Totaly 100% coverage of medical for the children, housing, food, daycare, education for her.

Where exactly does this happen? The way our government sees it, if you're working you probably make too much to receive any help. Have you looked at the income guidelines to receive any help at all?

For food stamps, oh sorry they changed the name to SNAP, you can't have:


The programs we already have are broken and don't help people that actually just need a hand up to get back on track. They help the people who do nothing but sit around and pop out as many kids as possible so they get more benefits.

This is basicaly what I had in mind.

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Americans are stupid and psychotic. It must be the additives in our food. Threads like this one reveal the wild diconnect in logic and rational thinking. You say, fine to the invasion of other countries leading to deaths of thousands of Americans, not to mention the tens of thousands of people minding there own business in their homes there. But pay a little to save more and do it in the interests of helping your fellow Americans stay alive and healthy and you go fuc*ing crazy and act like it is the end of the world.

This can only be suscribed to actual mass hysteria among the Right and cultist evanglicals. Maybe as part of your indoctrination into the evangelical cult you were fed a hypnotic code -- healthcare -- word that sends you into total hysterics.

I am at a loss to explain in because for sure our reaction is completely insane.

haha very well said. Couldn't have put it better myself really...

Yea and every time you hear the word war even a war of liberation you go into fits...little chip implants in the brain.....knee jerking spazmotic rantings...

reply to post by Takamuri



Then I point you to (Section 3003 (i)),(Section 6001 (i) (1) (A)), (Section 6001 (i) (1) (B).
You also might wish to read this!

link


Zindo

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

 

I've just decided to put Thirty_Foot_Smurf on ignore to increase the intelligence of the threads. He has been polluting with rampant ignorance. he does not know how the legislative process works or even how our government balance of power is divided (he thinks we have Upper and Lower houses of Congress). He does not understand the simple concept of taxation for basic services. he does not understand anything about the Commerce clause or the most remedial elements of the Constitution.

His posts are not elevating or contributing to any threads. Go read some books kid. Until then, you go ignore.

I find it interesting how he appears when SLAYER69 goes silent, and they share the same views and musical tastes.

Originally posted by Logarock

This is basicaly what I had in mind.

I'm a bit confused.. What is basically what you had in mind? That the programs we already have are useless to anyone unless they sit around and sponge off the government?

Originally posted by Risen

I find it interesting how he appears when SLAYER69 goes silent, and they share the same views and musical tastes.

Oh please. There are enough people who share Slayer's opinion he doesn't need a sock puppet. By your logic, anyone who shares your views and musical tastes must all be you.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by Jenna]

Originally posted by Risen

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

 

I've just decided to put Thirty_Foot_Smurf on ignore to increase the intelligence of the threads. He has been polluting with rampant ignorance. he does not know how the legislative process works or even how our government balance of power is divided (he thinks we have Upper and Lower houses of Congress). He does not understand the simple concept of taxation for basic services. he does not understand anything about the Commerce clause or the most remedial elements of the Constitution.

His posts are not elevating or contributing to any threads. Go read some books kid. Until then, you go ignore.

I find it interesting how he appears when SLAYER69 goes silent, and they share the same views and musical tastes.

Ok so I'm like superman then. I'll take that...

reply to post by hawkiye


This bill isn't "free" health care for all. It's mandatory health care insurance. So now the people who couldn't afford health care insurance in the first place are going to be fined if they don't buy some.

Some liken it to mandatory auto insurance, but that is completely wrong since no one is "made" to own a car and they therefore don't require auto insurance.

It's forced commerce, which is illegal.

Sorry hawkiye...this was supposed to be in reply to Mr Lizard

[edit on 23-3-2010 by SheaWolf]

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

Originally posted by Risen

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

 

I've just decided to put Thirty_Foot_Smurf on ignore to increase the intelligence of the threads. He has been polluting with rampant ignorance. he does not know how the legislative process works or even how our government balance of power is divided (he thinks we have Upper and Lower houses of Congress). He does not understand the simple concept of taxation for basic services. he does not understand anything about the Commerce clause or the most remedial elements of the Constitution.

His posts are not elevating or contributing to any threads. Go read some books kid. Until then, you go ignore.

I find it interesting how he appears when SLAYER69 goes silent, and they share the same views and musical tastes.

Ok so I'm like superman then. I'll take that...

Ending sentences with the triple periods, too. You guys have much in common.

I know SLAYER69 wouldn't be pathetic enough to have a shill account he uses to also share some of his less polite opinions, though.

Originally posted by JennaOh please. There are enough people who share Slayer's opinion he doesn't need a sock puppet. By your logic, anyone who shares your views and musical tastes must all be you.

Oh my god, what if they are?

Seriously, though. I don't easily say things like that, and even ignored the possibility when it first came to mind pages ago.



[edit on 23-3-2010 by Risen]