An American calling his Government out!

Originally posted by TheOracle

Slayer, don't you think the healthcare issue is actually the best thing in the list you made?
From what I gathered it would cost in total as much as THREE bombers.....
Don't you find it scary?

Oh yes certainly your figures there are very scary.....

Originally posted by nik1halo

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
I feel ya. The state of CA demands that I have car insurance to drive and insists that I pay a registration fee in order to drive MY automobile. Now why should I have to pay for government mandated auto insurance? I have never had an accident and don't plan on having one anytime soon!

I am also OUTRAGED about the FDA inspecting MY food. They have their hands in my pocket in order to inspect my meat! I don't need the government inspecting MY food.

They can keep their government roads too...I will build my own. I just need one road to get to work I don't need no interstate highway system!

I have never been involved in a fire of ANY kind yet I am forced at the barrel of a gun to PAY FOR a fire department!

etc etc etc

None of us like paying taxes my friend, but they are unfortunately a necessary part of civilisation.

You may not intend to get into a car accident, nobody does, that's why it's called an accident. What about if someone runs into you?

You don't want to pay for emergency services? You may have never been involved in a fire, but this doesn't prevent it from possibly happening in the future. What if your family were involved in one or friends?

This is a very selfish view. You may never have needed the emergency services, but others have and will. I'm not a socialist, but I do believe that it is our social responsibility to supply basic services that we all may need at one time or another.

And as for the roads system, are you really trying to say that the only places you EVER go is work and home? Do you ever go on vacation, shopping, social activities? How do you get there if not by road?

I think you may have missed a bit of sarcasm there my friend!

reply to post by VEGETA007

Can you say ABORTION!!!!!

your title says ur calling them out? so what are yo ugoing to do about all this? if its not fine any more...whats next? they arent going to stop just because of your ATS thread...is this thread just talk? probably

reply to post by SLAYER69


from You have served sudden become "We have served"?

whatever you are trying to tell, healthcare is peanut compare to the amount of foreign aid American gave to the Jew

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Slayer i agree with everything you said...

But in my 'ignorance' - i fail to see why you don't want health care for those who cannot afford it?

You'd think in a time like this, those without money (lost jobs, homes etc) would be relying on their fellow man to assist them...?

Where do you endt it this thought?

If I cant afford:
A house
My heating bill
My grocery bill
My water bill
My education
Gas for my car
My internet bill

Does the government have the right to take money from someone else to pay for my needs? No they dont.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I'm going to direct you, SLAYER69, to the same comments I have made elsewhere.

Government Shakedown : R.I.C.O. Act, Extortion, and the HealthSCARE ACT

A short synopsis, however, shows that hidden amongst the HealthSCARE Act, is the inner workings for the Bailout Package, the REAL ID Act, Verichip, Digital Angel, and Destron Fearing to sync up.

The safety and security of Medical Records opens it up for this device.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/338cc3d8b0fa.jpg[/atsimg]

And it is through Destron Fearing and the United Nations.

Quote from : Destron Fearing

Destron Fearing is a global leader in innovative animal identification.

With presence in over 40 countries worldwide we seek to provide real world ID solutions to match the ever increasing complexity and opportunities related to animal identification.

Since 1945 we have provided innovative products addressing the needs of livestock producers, companion animal owners, horse owners, wildlife managers and government agencies.

Destron Fearing provides a full complement of radio frequency identification products and software solutions to automate the collection of critical livestock production and carcass information.

Individual and herd information can then be easily transferred between all parties involved in the production and retail of meat products.

Information sharing allows the food industry to meet the discriminating demands of the market place.

If they have 40 countries sold on chipping animals, out of 192, and the inner workings of this process, we are to be the next "animals" chipped, and this leglislation follows through with the legalization of our slave collars.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_SmurfDoes the government have the right to take money from someone else to pay for my needs? No they dont.

Do you ever see your tax dollars again after you pay them? No, because they always go towards paying for the needs of others. In the case of the states, they're given to corporations and the military industrial complex who throw it on the heap of billions they already have, and you're ok with that.

My question's are these, and they are absolutely sincere:

Is this not ultimately going to have more adverse effects on the poor that it is positives? Are the arguments taken by pseudo-humanitarians actually callous and made without thought?

"How can extending coverage to millions of the poor and uninsured be a bad thing?"

Because they are less able to afford to pay what will be required by law, perhaps? THE POOR HAVE TO FOOT THE BILL as well, correct?
Could a very possible scenario well be the struggling single mother of three having to choose between diapers or allocating money aside for her forced healthcare payment to help cover some guy that sprained an ankle playing soccer?

Is it possible that the homeless man under the bridge, rounded up for vagrancy, could ALSO face the charge of 'non healthcare payment'?

REMEMBER---it has been law in this country forever that no medical facility in the US could turn ANYONE away whatsoever in need of medical attention.

Finally, Is it not only possible but likely that war and stealth bomber costs simply do not and will not ever have the same direct consequences as this healthcare 'reform'to those that struggle in this nation?

These are my concerns about this issue.





[edit on 23-3-2010 by Clark Savage Jr.]

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Slayer i agree with everything you said...

But in my 'ignorance' - i fail to see why you don't want health care for those who cannot afford it?

You'd think in a time like this, those without money (lost jobs, homes etc) would be relying on their fellow man to assist them...?

I really feel strongly for Americans, though some of their ideas make me see red, but, out of all the western nations, THEY are the ones who get the worst of the poisons, the most messed with educations, the highest poverty rates and homeless, the least return for their taxes into services for themselves, and in short a system is delivered that only works for the top 10%.

They have a two party system, primarily that is rigged, and they ALWAYS vote for CHANGE. Obama was put in for two reasons:

1) TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST. He put more soldiers there!

2) To bring in medicare! THIS ISNT MEDICARE! Our medical system in Canada, costs our Federal Goverment LESS per person, than THEIR OLD ONE DID! And they didnt get anywhere near as many things covered and many people were excluded.

Some Canadian provinces pay noting in premiums. Those that do, pay perhaps $65.00 a month, used to $35. What American ever paid that amount? They pay outrgeous sums to insurance company MIDDLE MEN, rip off EXTORTIONISTS. A middle man placed between the collective and the service, a WEALTHY FRIEND OF TPTB????? Its called PRIVATIZATION, and they're brainwashed into this SCAM AND FRAUD being reasonable. They pay as much for family health insurance as for a morgage!

When they voted Obama in, I think they thought they were going to get REAL NATIONAL HEALTHCARE, COLLECTIVE that all Western Nations that LOOK AFTER THEIR OWN, GET!

Now they're going to PAY MORE!!! Overall.

And the world blames the Amerian citizens for all the evil MAFIA LORD things their leaders do (AND RIGHTFULLY SO!), but....they are most hard done by people of the "Free" western nations I know, and need to be freed.

Free from the whole rigged system.

Free from the mindset that demonizes collectives. Yes you can run collectives, help the poor and those in need and still stand up for FREEDOM in the world.

Originally posted by Risen

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_SmurfDoes the government have the right to take money from someone else to pay for my needs? No they dont.

Do you ever see your tax dollars again after you pay them? No, because they always go towards paying for the needs of others. In the case of the states, they're given to corporations and the military industrial complex who throw it on the heap of billions they already have, and you're ok with that.

So I shouldn't care that the government is taking bread from my kids mouth then since i don't see what they do with it...Tell you what..just start sending me 250 bucks a week and I'll give you no itemized receipt on what i do with it. You shouldn't care too much right? You'll never see it again and its going to my needs.

I follow a liberal with a middle eastern name.

He believes in hope.
He believes in change.

He demands that black people be treated with respect.

He is willing to sacrifice this country for his "selfish" beliefs.

He knows his ideals may cost him his life.

The liberal I follow with the middle eastern name is
Abraham Lincoln.

As for health care, if you can't afford it and/or are disabled, there is already a health care program for you; Medicare and Medicaide.

If you don't qualify for either, you need to get a job like everybody else! Possibly more then one, like so many others. And if your job doesn't provide health care to you, quit your job and work for a company that does provide it. Or purchase it on your own.

To expensive? Can't afford it? Cry me a river. What can anybody afford right now?

How about this? I don't feel like working hard enough to buy health care. So how about they raise your taxes so you can buy it for me?

McDonalds has health care. So does Wal Mart. They don't pay very well but those benefits aren't exactly free. If you don't have any professional skills and you want health coverage, it's a great place to start.

Stay in college until you get a degree, then upgrade your level of income.

Health care issue resolved.

What we need is education reform. Everyone MUST pay college tuition or you'll be fined.

Does anyone recall The Stamp Act of 1775?

At what point do you stand up to your leaders and say, "Time out."

Have you ever had to depend on the government? Government food stamps? Government WIC cards? Government unemployment benefits?

Have you ever had to go re-register your car or truck? Renew your drivers license?

Ever been audited by the IRS and had to get an attorney to help you prove that the stupid IRS agent screwed up? Did the IRS compenstae you for your attorney fees?

You want the government to take over health care? Well, good luck.

What else should the government take over?

There is a population problem in the United States. Maybe the government should tell us we can only have one baby.

While the government is at it, finding work is to hard. Maybe the government can find work for me.

My rent is to high. That should be reformed to.

And groceries cost to much. The government should take that over to.

And how about all these illegals? Let's have immigration reform so they can vote and get health care to. After all, what's the point of breaking the law and getting away with it if you don't get some kind of reward in the end?

Maybe then we can lower the minimum wage so the big bussinesses owned by the big government can get some financial relief.

Or they can keep the minimum wage the same and just raise taxes like they already do.

No; if all else fails, I prefer Abraham Lincoln's solution.

reply to post by kingmonkey


Sarcasm missed indeed, sorry, my bad.

Being a sercastic git myself you'd think I would have spotted that, but sarcasm often doesn't translate too well through text.

We are FACISTS now.

Fascism, Template

roEng, is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation on corporatist perspectives; values; and systems such as the political system and the economy.

Corporations now have all the legal rights as an individual. Meaning they can give as much money as they want to a political canidate.
The health care Tax was written by the insurance companies. Proof?.. Why did there stocks go up yesterday if this was really going to take any profit away fromt he big corporations?
Health-Care Stocks Up After House OK’s Obamacare
www.nasdaq.com... oks-overhaul

[edit on 23-3-2010 by wylee]

[edit on 23-3-2010 by wylee]

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Yeah I have served....



You are going to force some sort of half-assed Health Care reform that we have to pay for whether we like it or not whether we are sick or in need or not. Whether we can afford it or not...

[edit on 23-3-2010 by SLAYER69]

I am on the other side of the aisle from the Tea Baggers and this commenter, but I feel his frustration and do understand some of his points. However, one of his points seems to me to be at the crux of where I get off the Tea wagon: the statement of why should anyone be part of a health care system and pay "whether we are sick or in need or not" is not only selfish and self-defeating for the powerless, but it illustrates how America has lost any understanding of how real health coverage should work...by maximizing the buying power of the whole group. America has gone down the drain by buying into the "me me me" ethic..which results in the American public's self-centered gullibility and self-defeating selfishness. And the insurance companies, who do not provide guaranteed coverage when you ARE sick and are IN NEED coverage, are smirking at your illogic all the way to the bank. That selfishness also logically leads you to have to applaud when the insurance companies' slough you off when you do get sick. How awkward is that for you? THINK,..why is it that the strongest voices opposing a national health care program are the wealthy who can afford the best private health coverage, or go overseas to private clinics? Where's your first class plane ticket to your favorite private clinic?

My summation is: be angry but do some more thinking where your side of the toast is buttered...it ain't private health care insurance. Private insurers, like the business model they are supposed to be, will drop you like a hot rock when you get sick....and you like a simple fool will applaud them for their "American way" in dealing with you as depleted dross. That end note is where the Tea Bag illogic and your compalints lead to. Final note: why is it that so many Tea Baggers are seen to whine and fear losing "my medicare" and claim a national health care program is "communist" or something when medicare IS a national government program and the same criticisms were directed against medicare when it was proposed? I respect your emotion but advise you to direct it in some useful direction.

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

Originally posted by Risen

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_SmurfDoes the government have the right to take money from someone else to pay for my needs? No they dont.

Do you ever see your tax dollars again after you pay them? No, because they always go towards paying for the needs of others. In the case of the states, they're given to corporations and the military industrial complex who throw it on the heap of billions they already have, and you're ok with that.

So I shouldn't care that the government is taking bread from my kids mouth then since i don't see what they do with it...Tell you what..just start sending me 250 bucks a week and I'll give you no itemized receipt on what i do with it. You shouldn't care too much right? You'll never see it again and its going to my needs.

First of all, you're already paying lots of taxes, and the vast majority of it goes towards things that don't help you or your family in any way. If you only knew how families lived in other 1st world countries you'd understand that you've been getting shafted by your government for many years already.

This reform is the first step to bringing your child a future where he/she doesn't have to worry about any accident or illness not only seriously damaging them, but also bankrupting them. Your child can already look forward to the worst education system of any 1st world nation, but you're fine with that because spending tax money on things like better public education for children is communism, or something, right?

The way alot of you talk, i get the impression you think spending money on anything but bombing other countries is socialism. It's a shame they've fooled you so much.

[edit on 23-3-2010 by Risen]

reply to post by Night Star


Night Star many of the diseases in this country are do to lifestyle. Will the

lifestyle police tell you what you can eat, drink and smoke? I'm sorry I

forgot they already are doing that to some extent and it will get much worse.


Can I go mountain climbing, sky diving, or skiing? Will the lifestyle police tell

me no I can not because it is too dangerous and I could get hurt and it would

cost the socialized healthcare system if I did?


Instead of healthcare everyone deserves to have $one million dollars$

because we need it and we need to take from the haves and give to the

have nots thru taxation. If you belong to a Union you deserve $two million

dollars$. This should get more votes then healthcare and assure many

politicians to be elected. This would save on all the Billions and Billions of

dollars that will be spent to Administer the socialized healthcare system.

Now most can afford to buy their own private healthcare insurance with $one

million dollars$ a piece and $two million$ for union members. Now this is

what I call redistribution of wealth it is our right to have 1 or 2 million dollars.

Who cares about the cost, how we can pay for or if it is constitutional or not

because we all deserve it because it is our right to have the money. ^Y^








[edit on 23-3-2010 by amari]

Originally posted by Clark Savage Jr.

Could a very possible scenario well be the struggling single mother of three having to choose between diapers or allocating money aside for her forced healthcare payment to help cover some guy that sprained an ankle playing soccer?

REMEMBER---it has been law in this country forever that no medical facility in the US could turn ANYONE away whatsoever in need of medical attention.

Where have you been man? A single mom has been for a good while now eligible for a very healthy package of governemt supports. Totaly 100% coverage of medical for the children, housing, food, daycare, education for her.

As far as being turned away from medical care no, but they will come after you to pay up if you can. You go to the ER without insurance for care they will go so far as to garnish your wages if you have a job. It never was totaly free for most.

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Slayer i agree with everything you said...

But in my 'ignorance' - i fail to see why you don't want health care for those who cannot afford it?

You'd think in a time like this, those without money (lost jobs, homes etc) would be relying on their fellow man to assist them...?

Where do you endt it this thought?

If I cant afford:
A house
My heating bill
My grocery bill
My water bill
My education
Gas for my car
My internet bill

Does the government have the right to take money from someone else to pay for my needs? No they dont.

Try saying that to my government!

If I cant afford:
A house - Council will provide one, probably with 7 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms to support the small clan that I have spawned whilst being off work.

My heating bill - Gov will pay for that.

My grocery bill - That's what the dole and food tokens are for, unless of course I'm not spending all my money on booze and scratch cards.

My water bill - Gov will pay for that.

My education - Paid for by the Gov up to the age of 19 anyway.

Gas for my car - Gov will provide money for fuel, as long as you can prove you need a car to search for a job.

God bless Great Britain and IngSoc - This is why we're all broke!!

Originally posted by Risen

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

Originally posted by Risen

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_SmurfDoes the government have the right to take money from someone else to pay for my needs? No they dont.

Do you ever see your tax dollars again after you pay them? No, because they always go towards paying for the needs of others. In the case of the states, they're given to corporations and the military industrial complex who throw it on the heap of billions they already have, and you're ok with that.

So I shouldn't care that the government is taking bread from my kids mouth then since i don't see what they do with it...Tell you what..just start sending me 250 bucks a week and I'll give you no itemized receipt on what i do with it. You shouldn't care too much right? You'll never see it again and its going to my needs.

First of all, you're already paying lots of taxes, and if you only knew how families lived in other 1st world countries you'd understand that you've been getting shafted by your government for many years already.

This reform is the first step to bringing your child a future where he/she doesn't have to worry about any accident or illness not only seriously damaging them, but also bankrupting them. Your child can already look forward to the worst education system of any 1st world nation, but you're fine with that because spending tax money on things like better public education for children is communism, or something, right?

The way alot of you talk, i get the impression you think spending money on anything but bombing other countries is socialism. It's a shame they've fooled you so much.

Yes I know it has been painfully obvious to me that the government has been shafting everyone with onerous taxes for multiple decades. Its that any good reason to continue piling it on? I think not. we need to be reducing the tax burden and not increasing it.

You're not going to shape the argument with me into some anti-war rant so give it up.

Its always for the children isn't it? Always for the children.... I am responsible for my child's future and not the federal government. My children's future is secured and I don't need the federal government in there mucking it up. Why do you think its necessary to turn to the government for your future? Can you not hack it on your own?