An American calling his Government out!

Slayer, don't you think the healthcare issue is actually the best thing in the list you made? You said FINE for wars and murders, FINE for paying up for the bankers and corporate maggots but you have a problem with an attempt to better the health of americans? I kind of believe it is the bst move america has made in decades.

From what I gathered it would cost in total as much as THREE bombers, but strangely I don't see dozens of angry threads when the government waste money on high tech weapons of mass destruction.

Don't you find it scary?

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Slayer i agree with everything you said...

But in my 'ignorance' - i fail to see why you don't want health care for those who cannot afford it?

You'd think in a time like this, those without money (lost jobs, homes etc) would be relying on their fellow man to assist them...?

You can already do this.

Its called county services here. Not that I want much to do with that stuff. Unless something happens though, we ALL will be. County services will be glorious compared to the likely product from th feds.

One more note. This excrement spewed frow the butt of dc isnt about health care.

Its about a power grab!

NOT ONE LAZY DIRTBAG will get HC for free. We'll all be taxed to death! It really pisses me off because my family and I just paid off a car and were starting to get above water.

THANKS ALOT OBAMA SUPPORTERS! THANKS ALOT REPUBLICANS THAT PISSED EVERYONE OFF IN THE FIRST PLACE! FREAKIN TRAITORS!

A final thanks to :

Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Marx, Engles, Chomsky, Soros, Ayers, and anyone else I forgot.

a VERY non sarcastic thank you to SLAYERS family. May you all come home safe.

reply to post by Ulala


What makes the rest of the world so "civilized" and the
U.S. not?What is so "civilized" about having a socialist-style
government and healthcare? Can you explain why so many
citizens from, "civilized" socialist governments, try to leave
them to come here?
Before you answer,I want you to know that I have a russian
daughter-in-law!It took nearly two years to get her out of russia.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
But am i right in saying BEFORE this was passed - there were poor people dying and being refused treatment BECAUSE they couldn't afford the ludicrous prices for health care.

At least now you can guarantee if you ever became ill, you'd be looked after right????

That is the idea....but there is no guarantee you'll be looked after. The idea is good but our gov. almost always fails in the execution!

I think what has Slay & many other Americans ticked is how it was passed.

The ptb want trouble. They want to stir up the American people to revolt because they have our army and our kevlar padded police to destroy us with. They have their goons itching for action to let lose on the American people, on our defenceless children. We need to take back our country, but be careful not to be manipulated. We need states rights. We need outrage. We need the people to see what is happening to their country. We have a Constitution. We only need to insist they follow it. Whatever is not Constitutional is not the United States of America. What ever they are doing is treason. The legislative and executive and judicial branches are committing treason against the United States of America. America is not the legislative, executive and judicial branches of our corrupt government. America IS the Constitution.
Now they want the people to get violent so they can crack down with their treasonous military and treasonous kevlar padded police.

Our treasonous President swore on Lincoln's Bible to uphold the Constitution.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
The US worker is probably the hardest worker barely elbowing out the Japanese and you Demand more? We paid off WWII We paid off Korea and Vietnam. Now This crap. Good going. Who's worse for American productivity? Beijing or DC?

You'll take our cash. Use the interest from it to pay on the debt and in the end we get crap for our hard earned cash.
You'll make some payments on the debt with the interest but nowhere near enough to pay the debt down.

It'll look like you made some progress with reducing it.

Read The Creature From Jekyll Island The FED was set up to soak the American people. All the loans the FED makes and the IMF makes are guaranteed by the American taxpayers. We paid for the development of Communist Russia even though we claimed they were our enemy. The American taxpayers have paid through the nose for all those loans the Rockefellers set up, from the southamerican countries that were designed to fail so the American taxpayer could bail them out. (Every person on the planet not just every American should read The Creature of Jekyll Island ) Then it was all piled onto the national debt which is why it is so large. The first thing we should do to take back the country is to END the FED. The American public is not even aware of the complicity of the FED in our economic problems


[edit on 23-3-2010 by m khan]

As always nicely said Slayer. I however didnt agree with anything they decided to do. I didnt want war, higher taxes and everything else they did without asking us. This new health care bill I DO NOT want. I dont think people understand the long term problems that will come with it. I am for health care reform but not like this.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Mr Lizard, like you (and most Brits) I also fail to understand why the Americans would not want a socially responsible health care system, but I think that's just because we have already had one for over 60 years and it works. It's not perfect, but even the homeless get the same medical care as the rich (as long as they don't go private).

It's a mind set that I don't think we will ever understand and have to simply put it down to cultural differences and stay out of the debate.

Originally posted by nik1halo
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Mr Lizard, like you (and most Brits) I also fail to understand why the Americans would not want a socially responsible health care system, but I think that's just because we have already had one for over 60 years and it works. It's not perfect, but even the homeless get the same medical care as the rich (as long as they don't go private).

It's a mind set that I don't think we will ever understand and have to simply put it down to cultural differences and stay out of the debate.

Not too many years ago our homeless would also get the same medical care the rich get. It is part of the hypocratic oath. There were abuses, instances where poor people were turned away but not legally as there are abuses in your system where people die on a waiting list for expensive treatments. But now the concept of medical insurance has taken over. You have to have insurance before they will admit you to a hospital. If you don't you will be treated but will pay maybe five or ten times what people with insurance pay, depending on their copays. If you are poor you pay more. You don't get away with not paying. The evil is not capitalism. The evil is insurance. The evil is government regulation. My mother's doctor accepted payment in eggs and chickens. Doctors became doctors because they wanted to help people. The AMA made it so hard to become a doctor that they stiffled that. Doctors are still good people but they are tied up with regulation from insurance companies and now from fascist government, our government with the passage of that legislation has become fascist. By the by the insurance companies were behind this legislation, that they weren't was just lies from Obama. Liar in Chief.



[edit on 23-3-2010 by m khan]

Well said and passionate post, Slayer.

I think it is long overdue that the United States reformed its health care system. The problem with this HR Bill, as I see it, is twofold:

1. This bill isn't about health care, this bill is another bailout (on the heels of several errant bailouts) for the insurance corporations, who for the most part have already demonstrated their inability to run their business profitably. I think that without the bailouts, certainly many more Americans might be unemployed at this point, and yes, it would hurt. Badly. However, the monetary bandaide prolongs the inevitable, and the longer the U.S. takes to fall, the harder the impact, and slower the recovery. The U.S. has to invest in itself, its own manufacture, its own people and domestic jobs -- perhaps in infrastructure initially, as was done after the Great Depression. Simplify, keep the dollars, diminished and inflated though they be, at home.

2. I believe this bill was ramrodded, bought and as yet unpaid for, against the will of the majority of the American citizens. The American Representatives have, of course, long ago ceased to actually represent the wishes of their constituents. What do the stinkin' constituents know about anything? Much better that the allknowing and ballplaying, backdooring and "progressive" politicians sell themselves to us based on what they think we want to hear to get elected, and then do as they want, as negotiated out of the public eye. Yes, local and State politicians are angry. People feel betrayed by their government and for good reason. They WERE betrayed, and to add insult to injury, reminded overtly on a continual basis just how little their wishes mattered to their elected representatives.

The United States is long overdue for true healthcare reform. This bill, if it gets beyond the point of squeezing money from the people to actually mandate any measurable change, will produce a leveling mediocrity in health care. Yes, there are millions of U.S. citizens that are not covered and that is a disgrace.

When will we learn that financially throttling the farmers and employers -- especially small business -- does not create an overall improvement in anyone's life, and certainly not the health of the nation? Well, we can all be unemployed and scratching the dirt for crumbs......... and so it will likely go, until we learn to help the actual people, the unemployed, the disabled, our vets, the homeless..... and by that I mean only those that actually can't do for themselves.

How to pay for a program that just assists those in trouble? I don't know, but I guarantee you that unilaterally screwing everyone for a mediocre system won't improve it.

I said in another thread,

I think it's a huge mistake. Good luck and God Bless, America. I hope a year from now I'm grovelling back to this same thread to admit that I was more wrong than Bart Stupak in high heels.

That is my wish. I hope to be that wrong.

Originally posted by TheOracle

Slayer, don't you think the healthcare issue is actually the best thing in the list you made? You said FINE for wars and murders, FINE for paying up for the bankers and corporate maggots but you have a problem with an attempt to better the health of americans? I kind of believe it is the bst move america has made in decades.

From what I gathered it would cost in total as much as THREE bombers, but strangely I don't see dozens of angry threads when the government waste money on high tech weapons of mass destruction.

Don't you find it scary?

Health care has become a high tech weapon of mass destruction

reply to post by projectvxn

But now we are watching them cross a big line by selling us to corporate America through force of law.

We were sold a long time ago.
Long, Long, Time Ago.

reply to post by TheOracle


Yes Yes... we can all agree that some sort of Health System overhaul was needed. Everybody has the need for good medical care BUT not By Big Brother sticking his damned hands in my pockets [AGAIN] to fund it.

I've been a bit lost with all this fuss over the U.S. healthcare bill, mainly because I dont understand how your system works. So I would be grateful if someone could explain it for me?

Does every american need to have health insurance and therefore pay a monthly insurance payment to be covered for any health care needed? In the absence of insurance, are you hit with a massive healthcare bill should you fall ill or be in an accident?

Thanks in advance

reply to post by SLAYER69


Let me get this straight. It is ok for BILLIONS of out tax dollars to go to WAR that has killed many American men and women on the basis that WMD's would be found which were not but it is not ok to spend out tax dollars on HEALTH CARE that will look out for millions of Americans that do not have it or can not afford it?

I feel ya. The state of CA demands that I have car insurance to drive and insists that I pay a registration fee in order to drive MY automobile. Now why should I have to pay for government mandated auto insurance? I have never had an accident and don't plan on having one anytime soon!

I am also OUTRAGED about the FDA inspecting MY food. They have their hands in my pocket in order to inspect my meat! I don't need the government inspecting MY food.

They can keep their government roads too...I will build my own. I just need one road to get to work I don't need no interstate highway system!

I have never been involved in a fire of ANY kind yet I am forced at the barrel of a gun to PAY FOR a fire department!

etc etc etc

This sort of Bill should never be allowed to pass by such a narrow margin out of respect for those that have to shoulder the cost. A few votes diffrence is hardly a mandate.

Once again as OP is pointing out...the middle class is the pivot man in the circle jerk. Thats the class that has so much to draw from and the least amount of power to do anything about it.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
You raised our taxes. FINE we said.... You supported our domestic companies moving overseas in search of higher corporate profits. FINE we said.... You wanted wars for resources FINE we said.... You said there was a bogyman out there that we needed to blow the crap out of FINE we said.... There were companies that needed to be bailed out or it would ruin the US economy. FINE we said....

Well maybe you should stop being such a sucker. This healthcare reform is the best thing to happen to US citizens in awhile, and THIS is what you choose to draw the line at? Consider me amused.

It remains to be seen if people are going to be dragged off to prison kicking and screaming because they didn't pay the 5 dollars a month or whatever for health coverage, if there's any money demanded at all like some of you claim. So it would probably be in your best interests to wait and see how things work out, instead of trying to do your best Ms.Cleo impression and predict the future, only to end up looking like a fool when it doesn't work out the way you think.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
I feel ya. The state of CA demands that I have car insurance to drive and insists that I pay a registration fee in order to drive MY automobile. Now why should I have to pay for government mandated auto insurance? I have never had an accident and don't plan on having one anytime soon!

I am also OUTRAGED about the FDA inspecting MY food. They have their hands in my pocket in order to inspect my meat! I don't need the government inspecting MY food.

They can keep their government roads too...I will build my own. I just need one road to get to work I don't need no interstate highway system!

I have never been involved in a fire of ANY kind yet I am forced at the barrel of a gun to PAY FOR a fire department!

etc etc etc

None of us like paying taxes my friend, but they are unfortunately a necessary part of civilisation.

You may not intend to get into a car accident, nobody does, that's why it's called an accident. What about if someone runs into you?

You don't want to pay for emergency services? You may have never been involved in a fire, but this doesn't prevent it from possibly happening in the future. What if your family were involved in one or friends?

This is a very selfish view. You may never have needed the emergency services, but others have and will. I'm not a socialist, but I do believe that it is our social responsibility to supply basic services that we all may need at one time or another.

And as for the roads system, are you really trying to say that the only places you EVER go is work and home? Do you ever go on vacation, shopping, social activities? How do you get there if not by road?

reply to post by mr-lizard

No hospital could turn away anyone.
Do you remember when Obama and his commie friends started this healthcare takeover when he first came to office? They repeated over and over and over about the 47 million Americans who didn't have healthcare. Have you noticed a change in that number in the last few months. Now they are talking about the 32 million Americans who don't have healthcare. What happened to the the other 15 million? We know from data they didn't get jobs and buy health insurance. The 47 million was a lie and they were called on it and they were forced to change it. There are also about 20 million rich people who don't have insurance because they don't need it and don't want it. They pay cash. But the govt. wants to control them. So that brings the actual figure of uninsured down to around 12 million. Now if this was really about healthcare the govt. would have provided healthcare for just those 12 million. But this is not about healthcare it is about controlling 300 million people.

Count me in as being sick of it all Slayer69. My government has long since stopped serving me or my fellow countrymen. You hear us washington??
Yes, you bloated, powermad politicians who refuse to drink from the same cup you offer us. If it's good for us it surely must be good for you too. Prepare to join the rest of us!