Now you are FORCED to buy health insurance, what will you eliminate to afford it?

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
--snip--

I own a small business. I employ 8 people. Most of those people are paid on commission. I would love to provide them with health insurance, but at this time it is just impossible for me to do that AND stay barely profitable as I am now. Can you guess what I would have to do if I am forced to provide them with healthcare?
--snip--

I was reading that employers that have 25 or fewer employees are exempt from having to offer healthcare so I think you'd be ok for awhile.

about 5 or 6 months ago I was in an automobile accident. It wasnt my fault, I got rearended by a 17 year old high school girl who was texting. At the time I wasnt making payments on my truck because it had been paid for in full some years ago. Well, my truck was totaled, and i ended up getting less than 1/4th the value of the truck, $4000, on A '04 S-10 with 50,000 miles on it.

I had to get a Kia specrtra, which is a lot less cool than my truck, .

I essentially had to find a way to make the 150.00 a month payment, (over the next 3 years). I was daunted because right up until the accident, my money has always been tight. it didnt seem possible, but I have found with the cost of gas being offset by better fuel economy, it hasnt been that hard. Dropped cable and internet, but I was going to get rid of those anyways.

What I find highly disturbing is the amount of people who have had no coverage up until this point. SOO MANY PEOPLE coming out of the woodworks complaining that they have to get coverage now. These are the SAME PEOPLE I have heard complaining about having to pay a 1,000 ER visits in the past for broken bones and stuff at urgent care because they didnt have coverage.

The only legislation we need should be aimed at the companies that pick and choose only the most cost effective and healthy to provide coverage for.

MY QUESTION TO THE OP IS WHAT WOULD YOU ELIMINATE TO PAY A 250,000 Dollar medical bill? There are people out there who actually have to worry about this because they got hurt/sick with NO COVERAGE. Most of these pople would have had coverage had SOME COMPANY been willing to provide it for them, which is what the bill in question wants to do.

"Oh man, stupid dentist keeps bugging me about brushing my teeth. they are my teeth and ill let them rot if I want...."

I would be much more inclined to let people worry about themselves if mankind hadnt proven its own stupidity time and time again.

Originally posted by Cabaret Voltaire
Now you are FORCED to buy health insurance, what will you eliminate to afford it?

I'll eliminate the US dollar from my life and attempt to eliminate it from everyone else's life too. I'll do everything in my power to see people start to use silver or any other money other than the US dollar.

Without the US dollar, the mandatory insurance becomes vastly more difficult if not impossible to continue as the only reason the US federal government isn't shrinking dramatically like the CA government or Greece government is because they've got a printing press and they can print US dollars.

I'm hoping that people will flock to organizations that support these efforts including the Free State Project, OpenCurrency.com, DelValleySilver.com, DownsizeDC.org, and a wide host of others. And I welcome U2U's of anyone who wishes to join the effort to eliminate the US dollar. My body, my choice. And my choice is no. And since my choice its now being shoved down my throat my choice by others my view changed... HELL NO, AND I'M NOT GUNNA TAKE IT!

[edit on 22-3-2010 by truthquest]

Originally posted by badkarma1981

Originally posted by FiatLux
reply to post by Bicent76

 

OT:

Yep, maybe they will all smell the coffee when this government files for bankruptcy. Or, will they continue to argue about this after the bankruptcy? Meaning, just to have something to argue about.

This seems to be a fairly common viewpoint here and with fiscal conservatives in general. If it really is that bad, or the government is that close to declaring bankruptcy, why not force it/speed it up? If things are REALLY as bad as you're saying, maybe it would create the type of change conservatives are looking for anyways... start with a *mostly* clean slate?

Is it really as bad as I am stating? Just go have a look at what the national debt is up to. We can`t even keep up the interest payments on the debt we now have, let alone we now are going to add more on top of it. How long do you think it will all last? So many want all of these things, yet, we can`t hardly even pay the interest on the debt we now have. Interesting

Originally posted by krunchy
Wow, talk about a logical fallacy. You're implying that yesterday you didn't "need" insurance, when in reality getting sick without insurance just means that someone else has to pay for it.

If you are sick you have two options: pay to get better, or die. Insurance is a way of affordably ensuring that you can pay for health care when its needed.

Anyone who is so resistant to mandatory insurance should sign a waiver stating that they refuse any and all treatment in the event that they get sick and/or die.

Where do I sign this waiver?

Originally posted by mkross1983

Originally posted by SantaClaus

Originally posted by mkross1983
Have you ever read the constitution???

I have.. And while its a great work in democracy, there is room for improvement as we evolve as a society...

"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times." ~Thomas Jefferson

So you think forcing people to pay for someone's services improves the constitution? lol wow. This country is soooo friggin' screwed beyond measure. Good god. I can't believe we've lasted as a country for as long as we have.

The country aka "These United States" died during the "civil" war. The thing that replaced it however is on it's deathbed.

reply to post by mkross1983


I've read the constitiution. We the people don't have the right to much of anything according to the constitution, we seemed to garner a few things from the bill of rights but you are correct health care is not one of them. Unfortunately most of the laws in this country have nothing to do with either of these lovely documents.

Rob Peter to pay Paul... in other words, bye-bye automobile insurance.

(I have insurance through my employer. I am temoted, however, to use this strategy to adjust for the tax they will now try to collect on that benefit.)

Originally posted by Emerald The Paradigm
It's funny because the Health Care Bill is written by the INSURANCE COMPANIES themselves! (True Story)

Why would the Insurance Companies rip themselves off? They wouldn't.

It's all about money.

It's just like the bank bailouts where they said the banks should be helped, and they gave hundreds of million of dollars as BONUSES to their Executives!

They DON'T care about the average person. They really don't.

It's all about MONEY.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Emerald The Paradigm]

Its written and is meant to collapse the current insurance topology. Little companies will fail and be gobbled up by the big ones. No new companies will be formed. Now even the illusion of choice will be gone. Its easier to yoke your agenda to 2 big strong oxen than wrangle 100 cats to do the job.

When the healthcare bill train started down the tracks, I had a feeling that it was inescapable.

Since the federal government is involved in my healthcare now, I feel convinced that two things WILL happen:

1- My healthcare COSTS will INCREASE.
2- The QUALITY of my healthcare will DECREASE.

Only time will tell. I hope that I am wrong......

If the few health insurers that are left at the end of this mess approach bankruptcy because of govt regulations, will we have another bailout?

[edit on 22-3-2010 by butcherguy]

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


I plan on not paying taxes to pay for it .

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


I'm really not being facetious here, but i really don't see why you Americans are getting so worked up over this health insurance?

Every time you have to go to the Doctor's or hospital as it stands now, you have to pay for each check up, each test and procedure, and then pay for any medicines prescribed on top of that right?

Don't any of your list of other expenses have to go bye-byes to pay for that then?

IN the UK (and fellow Brits correct me if i'm wrong) we pay 11% of our income, as a tax to pay for our healthcare, social security and pensions.

People moan of course, but people moan about everything anyway.

I tell you what though, we'd all be moaning a lot louder if we had to cough up £100 for an X-Ray, or check up, and then £20 for each blood test, and then maybe £80 a night for a stay in hospital or whatever it is you lot pay over the pond.

Isn't it fairer that the poor can be treated, at the point of need, without having to take out a loan or sell a kidney, rob a bank, mug an old lady etc?

I don't get it.

I am very close to saying to heck with this criminal medical system entirely and treating myself. The system we have no only gives you Big Pharma drugs instead of natural cures that can cure the disease anyway. I have several cures for cancer at Project Nsearch already and plan on extending this section in the future! Why can I find several cures to cancer yet our FDA and Cancer Society NEVER DO! Wake up - the Rockefeller foundation admitted they had cures to 99% of all cancers in the 60's! This was admitted to doctors in the 60's! Just about 99% of all cancers could be cured but they WILL NOT be cured because you have new world order monsters in charge that want 95% of the planet to die! Wake up!

I sure don't trust our Rockefeller funded medical system. They want to treat you with deadly chemo instead of giving you hemp oil that cures cancer. It's all a fraud, so why should I continue to pay for something I don't use. And if I do use it, they will try to kill me with their Big Pharma scams anyway

I think we just need to find Patriot Doctors that we can pay in ounces of silver as we go. If these Patriots have access to all the alternative health things that aren't used now, you will be 1000% healthier anyway! So it will cost you FAR less and you will have BETTER health than all this crap anyway. We can do something like this. If we all stick together, there is no way the government can do this to us. Start thinking outside the box.

So I think the future is to start coming up with another system that we can do and let the states keep the feds out of our face with their criminal takeover that is against our Constitution. Start thinking about such a system and please let me know your opinions. I know we can start something new while at the same time sweeping out all the NWO trash in our CONgress over the next few years. We must all come together and form something similar to Schaeffer Cox's "The Solution" video on youtube but to do it in medicine and general commerce. We make something like that, the new world order loses.

peace

reply to post by spikey


Here is the issue. The legislation being employees is not a social program. It is a requirement that every individual pay for insurance. Insurance is a highly profitable industry. In other words the populace is pooling their funds together, being forced to have huge profits taken out. The populace as a whole is left with less then it started with. This is very corrupt...

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


Some people like myself will take a stand and NOT PAY! I am a free man. I will not get the Governments health insurance. If I could possibly afford insurance I would already have it. If they want to make a criminal out of me over this then so be it. I will not get it. As a person who knows what its like not to be free I take my freedom extremely personal. Well see how this unfolds.

reply to post by rusethorcain


YOU ARE WRONG! YOUR TAXES WILL GO UP FOR THIS ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AND YOU WONT SEE A BENEFIT UNTIL 4-6 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by spikey


Health care aside, how much more can we stack on top of this house of cards(our national debt), before it falls down around us? We can`t even keep up with the interest payments on it now, let alone add more unpayable debt on top of it.

Originally posted by Genfinity
I just sent this email to the Governor of Texas. I wonder if I will be on a watch list now???

Governor Perry,

I would like to express my displeasure with DC voting to erode our personal rights despite public opinion by forcing socialized health care on the United States of America.

Mayhaps you should read up on things a bit before you fire off letters to public officials. What passed was not socialized ANYTHING. Far from it. It was a windfall for large insurance providers.

In this bill, as you might have seen in this thread, everyone is forced to buy insurance or pay stiff fines. This isn't buying insurance from the government, this is buying insurance from private corporations.

I am actually surprised there aren't more neo-cons on here screaming about how wonderful the bill is because it doesn't socialize the health care industry. There's a bit more regulation on insurers, of course, but not enough to hurt, given they are gaining millions of new customers.

On other notes (unrelated to Genfinity's post)...

As for the supposed "eventual" reduction in premiums, I have never seen ANY market reduce prices on something. They will always charge what the market will bear. Why reduce prices when you can charge the same price as always and claim it's necessary to maintain profits!

The bill as a whole may work.. most likely not, though. If they simply made the health insurance companies into non-profits and/or made the governmental health insurance that the congress enjoys into something people can buy into, then it would probably work better.

My biggest problem with this is that it is yet another bill that I am FORCED to pay. I have insurance already, but that is by CHOICE. That choice is now gone forever.

One day Obama supporters will tell themselves, "This isn't the change I thought there was going to be" It may not be today, tomorrow, or next month, but I assure you they will eventually ask themselves that question.

Originally posted by Cabaret Voltaire
You have to pay rent/mortgage and utilities. Can't stop that.
You have to pay for transportation and food. Can't stop that.

Now that you are FORCED to buy health insurance, how will you afford it?

It looks like credit cards won't be paid. Instant default.
It looks like entertainment budget will be cut. Sorry Hollywood.
It looks like eating out will be cut. Sorry local restaurant owners.
It looks like any discretionary spending will be cut. Sorry small stores and giant corporations.
It looks like savings and investment will be cut. Sorry for you if you are trying to build a nest egg.

It looks like B. Hussein O. has really stepped in it now.

I say we all eliminate war spending and the "war on drugs", occupations, the CIA, NSA, FEMA and the congressional military industrial complex... and all that junk that makes the rich richer. Foreign aid bribes to israel / pakistan et al too.

I'd rather spend that money on "us", my brother citizens... than watch "the man" fleece billions into their war profiteers / wall street cronies pockets.

I wont have the eliminate anything, I earned "govt health insurance" by retiring from 2 govt jobs.. and it's hands down better than the healthnet HMO I used to pay for.

It's hilarious that the USA of virtue, justice and peace would rather bleed money killing & torturing strangers, occupying nations 1000s of miles away.. than provide health care to their brother & sister citizens.