What is going on in Britain???

reply to post by kindred


When it comes to Gordon Browns financial advice i think i'd prefer the advice of the average tramp. Gordon Brown sold off our gold reserves when gold was at a massive low and every speculator said it would go up. He inherited a very decent economy and ran it so far into the ground it's a disgrace. Of course he can't be blamed for the global crisis, but he could have put us in a far better position to handle it.

The reason our finances are where they are is because this government loves to spend money, often on the wrong things and it loves to waste money in beaurocracy. This government also understands that by spending loads of money they will be voted back in, because the scumbag benefit scroungers will vote Labour. Don't get me wrong there are lots of decent people on benefits who are disabled or simply have lost their job. But there are others who choose benefits, like they shouldn't have to work and it's just plain wrong.

However none of this has caused the youth problem we have today. Although i should point out that every generation has spoken of a youth problem, the rockers of the 60's, punks of the 70's/80's and of course the good old skinheads. In the 90's it was the rave and brit pop youth that scared everyone. Anyone remember train spotting?

Still it seems slightly different now, with 8 year olds jumping up and down on a car and telling people like myself to go and, well i can't swear on ATS but you get the idea. In decades past if an 8 year old had sworn at a random stranger, that random stranger would have walked over, grabbed hold of him, escorted him to his parents house and they would have dealt very harshly with him.

These kids know that we can't touch them, they know they can verbally harrass whoever they like and even physically assault someone. They know if you retaliate they can claim you hit them first, you were trying to abduct them or something of that nature and you'll be in a cell instantly. The kid meanwhile will laugh his arse off and have no conscience about it.

When i broke a neighbors window as a kid (accidentily!!! stray football) i was forced to do garden work there every day for a week. It taught me to be very careful when playing in the street and we often walked to the football field to be safe. This sort of punishment doesn't seem to happen anymore. Instead the parents pay for the window, they tell the child to be a little more careful next time and buy him a new football.

Originally posted by kindred
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

I don't even need mention the benefits system which has also contributed to the state our country is now in.

The problem is, it's great to talk about getting rid of the benefits culture or benefits system is this country but it's a short-sighted approach. There's no point dismantling a benefits culture and system without having anything to replace it. The real problem with a benefits culture is that there is nothing to replace it. The problem with the benefits culture is that it started with the shutting down of manufacturing in this country. Within a couple of decades the vast majority of working class jobs more or less vanished over night: from mining to engineering to all kinds of heavy and light industry - all gone. This country makes nothing any more because middle-class share holders (not actually employed within the places of work themselves) only thought in the short term and of their quick return profits. Other countries now have all those jobs.

However, it wasn't a problem, was it? Surely all those working-class types could retrain and become upwardly mobile. The middle-class dream of a white collar job - something their parents might have aspired to with crossed fingers in the 1960s - could now be theirs with the advent of new office technologies. Service industries and IT industries became the new employment grounds for demographics that would never have had shirt and tie jobs in the past. Things looked great. For a few years.

Eventually, the middle-class shareholders who'd sold out to foreign firms the previous couple of decades needed to look elsewhere for options. Slowly the service industry and the IT industry and a lot of the new 'employment markets' suddenly started to go the way of the manual job: overseas.

The reality of Britain is that, no matter what the benefit culture might be like, the real underlying problem is that employment in this country is #ed. It's no point motivating all the apocryphal lazy #ers who won't work and stopping their benefits if there really isn't the work for them all to go to. Yes, there are some jobs out there - but jobs enough for everyone. Anyone who's gone for a job interview over the last couple of years knows that, fairly often, you can be competing against hundreds if not thousands for that job.

Another clue about the reality of the situation is that my partner, who has recently had to look for a new job, has been told by the Job Centre that the expected job application amount needed to qualify for Jobseeker's Allowance has been cut (although she personally sends dozens of applications every week). What happened before is that you needed to prove that you had applied for x amount of jobs - demonstrating you're actively looking for work - to get benefits. They've cut now cut that amount to prove you're looking for work. Why? Because as the advisors in my partners job centre had admitted, there just aren't enough jobs.

If you want to know what is really happening in the UK watch Brian Gerrish and his talks on Common Purpose and Soviet Britian. 1984 does not even begin to explain the way we are heading - it has all been planned for years.

I know it sounds completely insane but if you really want to know what is happening the Government is hiding things from the populace and the EU is worse than communisim.

yeah it's mental here in the UK, forget about help from the police there only bothered if your lord and lady such and such then they will help them. as for us mere mortals well the police choose to go further than uphold the law they actually look to find a law that has not been committed yet!

think about it, stop and search, your not breaking the law but they go out of there way to see if you are breaking the law but your not but your mad as hell and say get your "Add swear word here" hands off me you pig scum and bang there you go into the back of the van on a public disorder charge.

the police love Friday nights they call this fishing night and watch for the constant offender who drinks too much and they know just how to get him to react so they set about taunting him, next thing he is charged for being drunk and disorderly! if they left him alone he would of wobbled home worse for where that's all.

you cant win here, i hate the police!! but i wont rise to there tricks and this makes them mad! now that i love.

Originally posted by Tiger5

I think things went wrong when parents were prevented from chastising their kids as that weakend the arsenal of disciplinary tools available.

Rubbish. There are two sorts of weak parents: those who do nothing because they haven't a clue and those that resort to physical violence (which is the same really - no clue!).

My kids are well behaved and if they ever get out of line I bring them right back by simply denying them that which they hold dear which these days is TV, internet, Games etc. Of course if you threaten you MUST be prepared to carry out the threat (some parents back out ! idiots!).

Originally posted by malcr
Rubbish. There are two sorts of weak parents: those who do nothing because they haven't a clue and those that resort to physical violence (which is the same really - no clue!).

This statement about physical discipline is completely and utterly ignorant and this view is getting more and more tiresome. How many times do you have to hear stories from people whos parents did use physical discpline and those people ended up to be well adjusted and law abiding?

You didn't have to hit your kids and that's great, but some kids go to far and using physical discipline as an absolute last resort does work. As i have stated i was only ever hit 3 times in my entire childhood. They used other methods to discipline me most of the time, a good talking to, then being grounded, after that more chores, then privileges taken (as you said games consoles and the like) and if all else failed, i got a smack. We're not talking a beating here, i was not kicked to the floorl, just a hard slap over the backside.

Did it do me harm? No of course not.

The way you talk about those who have had to hit their children is so very insulting not only to them but the children they raised who are decent, law abiding citizens. Things are not as black and white as you would love them to be.

reply to post by stealthyaroura


congratulations on the most uneducated and ignorant post of the thread.

From what you say I feel you might be the exact sort of person the thread is questioning

reply to post by whitezombie93

That's simply not true. Poverty does not cause crime or produce criminals. Yes, you could say that alot of crime is concentrated in poor areas but that does not necessarily mean poverty is the main cause of it. IMO crime is born out of boredom, desperation, lack of understanding and improper education.

"boredom, desperation, lack of understanding and improper education."

Sound like the symptoms of poverty to me...

I couldn't have put it better myself.

My forthcoming media organisation is busy, currently looking to ensure that Canadian seal hunting has been shut down once and for all.

But the boredom has been setting in recently, for me too.

There are amazing developments coming through, good times no doubt, mini boom felt in some sectors, but many areas of the markets are under strain in business. This business outlook for me keeps me occupied, but there is little chance of fun when pubs all over are closing down, newspaper cover prices in many cases are going through the roof, and many shops are facing the prospect of closing down after being bulldozed out by the likes of Tesco etc.

Ultimately, people will leave if the experience is not good enough. At least newspapers are free on the internet, but that gets boring in the end though giving savings.

The cinema is a great experience though, but I nearly always walk out when I have seen 18-certificate movies. In summary, save most blue movies, they do not suit me.

Brilliant film - The Thirteenth Floor - this is one of my favourite films at the moment, I know it's available on DVD, though unknown bluray. This kind of film is exciting to watch when I am bored.

A few films of 15 certificate or even 12 certificate have left me sickened, when they did not appear to have gone through proper vetting for my liking. Horror movies are a known source of nightmares, for some, and may lead to depression too.

Talking of all this in terms of what to do if bored.

Good news though is that the Police have been making progress with shutting down illegal child prostitution rings. Victims are offered assistance by support organisations.

Facebook is established in Britain, and for the time being, is well used.

Daily Mail printed a disgusting edition in which they ventured that Facebook should have an alert button on every page. But the same newspaper had incitement issues arising with their headlines on numerous occasions. If they're so powerful as a force, the Daily Mail, and so popular with their readers - why is Britain in such a sorry state. Financially particularly, and unstable at this time in terms of direction - BBC particularly faced with questions including even now about their audio - , and in the past - beset with an evil plague of problems since shortly after the turn of the Millenium, in the year 2001.

What is the long-term influence of the Daily Mail onto the state of this country, under the editorship of the current editor, Paul Dacre.

Teletext, formerly known as Oracle, is no longer provided on ITV1 and Channel 4, and this is a service provided by DMGT plc, and I advocate that their service is hence a poor one.

The times when marijuana could be smoked in public parks under trees, on trial in areas of London, was a much preferable time to what the Daily Mail presented up until the end of last month.

For me, music is a good activity, if the music is to your taste, the open air concerts are the most exciting, best of all are the free ones. But these are expensive to put on, the free ones are usually covered the merchanidise sales etc.

I'm just waiting for the week to get going so that can start to enjoy the upward rollercoaster that I've been privileged to have travelled on, metaphorically, during the last few months. There is so much fun to be had, London especially, but the rip off operators must surely not be supported and be taken out of business.

For me, my mobile poses difficulties. Calls to freephone number are effectively charged at 20pence per minute, and calls to landlines and mobiles at 6p per minute. I cannot visit certain casinos anymore, because I can't trust certain ones, and I gave up gambling addiction.

But I think it's sound times at the moment, 2010 has been the most successful start to the year for me for many, many years, and if it can carry then I will be very pleased. Currently in my own music operations, making plans for the Christmas market. Great music is definitely key to keeping in a good mood during the 2010 new decade feelgood momentum.





[edit on 15-3-2010 by TheDailyPlanet]

[edit on 15-3-2010 by TheDailyPlanet]

Originally posted by Conspiracy Pianist
reply to post by whitezombie93

 

That's simply not true. Poverty does not cause crime or produce criminals. Yes, you could say that alot of crime is concentrated in poor areas but that does not necessarily mean poverty is the main cause of it. IMO crime is born out of boredom, desperation, lack of understanding and improper education.

"boredom, desperation, lack of understanding and improper education."

Sound like the symptoms of poverty to me...

Whilst I'm not sure I agree with whitezombie's alternative reading of this, I do agree with the general idea that poverty in itself isn't the reason for crime. This woefully simplistic reason is trotted out too often, in my opinion. There's a major fallacy in this as whilst it might be factor in some cases, if it was a clear cut as 'poverty leads to crime' then everybody that's ever been poor would have turned to crime as if it was some natural cycle of evolution.

The reality is much more complicated and that no one actually knows the answers with any 100% certainty. Think how often siblings in the same family, in the same house, in the same run down street, in the same run down area can have one that turns to crime and another that doesn't. They'd have shared the same level of poverty, the same upbringing (for good or bad), schools and so on: so why does one become a criminal and the other one doesn't?

Also, if poverty results in crime, then why is it's rare that thefts occur at 'sustenance level'? How often do you hear of food-related burglaries as opposed to muggings and burglaries of 'status symbols' and 'luxury items'. Whist foodstuffs are shoplifted, the most commonly shoplifted items in Britain are thought to be razors, cosmetics and alcohol. Hardly the 'make or break stuff' of someone driven to stealing because of poverty.

Again, whilst I don't claim to have any answers to any of this, I do know it's massively complicated and that 'poverty' in itself isn't much of a reason.

reply to post by ThePeaceMaker


I was not born in the UK, nor do i earn money here or ask for benefits of any kind.. but what strikes me is how the hell people on the Dole are living far, far better lives than anyone i know who actually works for a living.. this simply does not compute.
Having been raised in America, i can agree with a previous members post that it is happening there as well, i am pretty sure it can be lumped together as the Western world itself.. The Americanization - so to say- of even back mountain Welsh villages here is scary.. i lived here the first time for almost 3 years in 2000 and just finding peanut butter i liked was a chore.. years later its exploded around me and i wonder just how far i will have to move to get away from the place! The youths walk around the streets here like thug gangs in freaking harlem for crying out loud...but its clear to see the problems they cause, i cant even fathom how out of control it is in the actual cities here! I know a lot of people hated Thatcher when she was in, but from my understanding, (please correct me if i am wrong) you didnt have gangs of bored kids hanging around Spar shop fronts causing problems then..or at least to not such an extent..
As you mentioned about the cushy prison systems, i agree as well, one guy in the area here comes to mind instantly.. Hes living here from Liverpool, and is in and out of jails here more often than not.. last i talked to him he had just recently been released for a stabbing offense! and told me he didnt mind much as he had tv/cable, decent beds, the food wasnt bad and there are more drugs inside the place than on the streets.. so hell, why wouldnt most of these wastes of life want to sign up?!

reply to post by Full_Vision


I agree with your sentiments but i do not share your thought on Thatcher regarding this particular issue...

You talk of Americanisation and then that Thatcher didn’t have gangs of kids roaming the streets... That because it was Thatcher who really pushed the Americanisation of British culture with privatisation of British utilities (Rail, Post Office, Power etc...) and encouraged the corporate agenda. Thatcher was also responsible for selling off all the council homes which on the surface seemed great... and gave a lot of people the opportunity to make money...

However, in the long term, it has meant that council homes are now reduced to a few scum estates dotted around and private renting is so expensive, due to greedy landlords buying all the properties, normal family are forced to buy over priced homes with a mortgage they can probably never repay!!!

Once you privatise everything and encourage the corporates to have a free reign, you go down the path of social Darwinism... This dog eat dog, climbing of an invisible social ladder that serves no purpose other than to enslave 80% of the population while enriching the remaining 20%!!!
Once money becomes the main focus of a society other values, such as such as Honour, Loyalty, Respect, become secondary...

If all people respect is fashion emblems and dollar signs you end up with people getting stabbed over a pair of trainers... and the ones that can’t fight, in this dog eat dog world, just become apathetic and disillusioned social drop outs!!

The American dream can only ever work for a few... and it can only ever work as long as there are poor people...

This is a massively complex issue and neither I nor anyone else has the answers... regarding my OP, I’ve already stated that there is not one quick fix to these social issues. There are many contributing factors and until the majority of people can agree on all of these, the problem will exist!

Whose responsible? Two Words - New Labour

or video games, or music or violent movies or facebook or the internet...the blame seems to be on everyone and everything except the real culprit.

YOU AND I are to blame. We have allowed ourselves to be convinced that the accumulation of material goods equates to happiness. We must have a new car, a big house and the latest gadgets in order to feel fulfilled. In order to afford all this we must work extra hard, extra long, our mums can't even consider being stay at home moms anymore...they "can't afford it".

Our governments stronlgy encourage women to go back to work as soon possible after having children, ( our corporate overlords want us to continue to buy their crap afterall). Men are not expected to be the breadwinner, the caretaker of their families, the fathers who are the HEAD, the LEADER of their families.

Keeping up is taking an ever increasing role in our lives, leaving no time for the MOST IMPORTANT job of all and that is to raise the next generation.

It's our fault because we have accepted this new way of life with glee. We work hard for the corporations so we can turn around and give our money back to them for the useless junk we MUST have.

There is another way, a slower way. A way which allows women to embrace motherhood, allows fathers to embrace being the head of the family, allows children to be children for as long as possible. This way however means that you have to learn to live with less. Sadly, it seems that the vast majority of people would rather blame the ills of society on government, entertainment, the neighbours ect;


I do not have children. My partner and I live a very happy and fulfilling exsistance being childess. We both work the minimum needed in order to support ourselves ( because time is somuch more valuable then an Iphone) and have some savings. Should I have children at any point ( and my time is rapidly running out to do so) I will discontinue my job in order to take up job of being a mother and my partner will work harder to support us.

The question we should be asking ourselves is what is more important in our lives, our children or stuff? In the UK ( and most western countries) the resounding answer has been "stuff!".

reply to post by Full_Vision


bravo to you!
We are responsible for bringing up the next generation and doing our utmost as parents to ensure that they are decent human beings. As a mother, I do not expect schools or any other government body to instill my children with morals or to encourage them to treasure kindness where they find it. That is our responsibility as parents - a duty that my husband and I have embraced wholeheartedly.
I did not work until my children were of school age and yes we had no money and not much 'stuff' but I gave them the thing they valued most - time.
It is a great pity that motherhood is so undervalued in the UK - to the point of being ashamed when asked that most ridiculous of questions "What do you do?"

sorry - meant that reply for merigold

I think these are the reasons for the above...

1. Voter Apathy - Government by Default?

The turnout to the General Election has dropped drastically over the last 13 years. People have become disillusioned, and believe their vote won't count in the greater scheme of things, or the parties have failed to engage with people at their level, to connect with them on issues that really affect them.



Source: - General election turnout 1945 – 2005

2. Labour Government policy - Power to the Corporations?

Labour Government policy is being swayed by corruption and by blackmail. The media companies and major conglomerates, utility supply and oil companies not only donate money to the parties through 3rd parties who appear to be impartial but also have a lot of power in swaying public opinion. Not to mention the obvious hidden backhanders the parties get for accepting lobbying corporations.

Cash-for-questions affair

The Whitehouse Consultancy

Net pirates to be 'disconnected

3. Labour Government uses political correctness to redirect money

The concept of Political correctness has gone mad here in England, there are so many things that you can't do anymore that in a nutshell those that don't care about the system cannot be contained because of PC restraints on the services and those that are law abiding subjects are strapped up with laws that are either direct or that have been fed into our society through the media.

Political correctness has replaced British Politics!

4. Labour WANTS YOU!! or your data at least...

The current labour Government has become a perfect information gathering machine that sells the information on to companies that would use the information to market their services and their wares.. This isn't just your postal address either...

‘Big Brother’ database for phones and e-mails

Ministers keep innocent on DNA database

To summarize...

The people whom work in the government local or otherwise are called Civil Servants, the literal meaning is to serve the public.

What has happened is the current Government now only serve themselves, they have their snouts in the trough, are lining their own nests and don't give a damn about the people who live here. The Government feed on the population, treating us as though we were animals.

We need to stand up and fight for what’s right. I have lived through both Conservative and Labour government and I can tell you the country was far better off under a conservative Government... the question is, are there enough people that care enough to change it??

We still can change things if we all stand up for a change.

Power to the People!!

All the best,

Korg.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by Korg Trinity]

Do not fret. It is still not too late. Many here know what the problems are. There may be differences of opinion, but the ‘problems of society’ is a reality. And it is this reality that will be the common ground for all, to find solutions.

The common person presumed himself powerless, only a single voice in the ocean of humanity. But nothing can be further from the truth. That one voice has the capability to rouse up every single human in mankind, if what was said is true, logical and within reason. Mankind are only made of flesh and blood, and can touch and be touched.

Furthermore, that voice of logic and reason is not the only one here. There are many of you here, both male and female of all ages that had agreed amongst yourselves and defined the problems. That is your common ground, and from there will solutions come.

That solution will be you reaching out from here in ATS into the real world, to debate and discuss with your families, neighbors, relatives and friends. Invite them over for a cup of tea or a dinner party.

Britons are the most hospitable people on Earth, or at least used to be. Talk of light subjects, then share your views with them to find if they will share that common ground you found here.

From there, you will realize that you had started a movement, a movement to correct the wrongs that happened in the country through rational discourse.

You will not be alone, for each who discusses within their own circle; those circles are in reality subsets that lie within the circle of whole – society. In short, we are more closely related than we realized.

With a common goal, and within a civilized society, the change will result through the action of your vote.

And if the elected failed to listen or performed to expectations, there will be another vote within time. Humans can be patient beings if they choose to. Which is why democracy lasted where other political doctrines failed the test of time. Dictators never stood a chance in democracies.

Just my insight. Good luck! :-)

Originally posted by Yissachar1
They need to be taught that "rights" have responsabilty, and respect is earned...

A firm hand is needed...

My platoon sergeant in basic training turned me from a wussy Jewish mommies boy into a soldier... Even in live firing attacks he would boot me in the ribs for not moving after every two shots to make myself an harder target... He was a total bastard... But I love him.... He taught me how to be a man and how to responsibly lead them.... He is why myself and those under my command are still alive... That hard bastard from Manchester... He also instilled character into me, and through many hard runs up Pen y fan in Wales wearing a respirator(gas mask) and carrying a jerry-can of water too, made me realize that the only limits I have are those I put on myself...



UK men today are a generation of mummies boys raised by women because their dads were the same...

We need to go back to our traditional roles... It obviously worked...

Originally posted by Yissachar1
They need to be taught that "rights" have responsabilty, and respect is earned...

A firm hand is needed...

My platoon sergeant in basic training turned me from a wussy Jewish mommies boy into a soldier... Even in live firing attacks he would boot me in the ribs for not moving after every two shots to make myself an harder target... He was a total bastard... But I love him.... He taught me how to be a man and how to responsibly lead them.... He is why myself and those under my command are still alive... That hard bastard from Manchester... He also instilled character into me, and through many hard runs up Pen y fan in Wales wearing a respirator(gas mask) and carrying a jerry-can of water too, made me realize that the only limits I have are those I put on myself...

Pen y fan..... i done the fan dance a while back got through it but its a total bitch of a tab. made a man of me to.

I should have added also that Soviety wants children to grow up too quickly... there's too much pressure on children as well as Adults!!

You also have to look at the 'System' and ask yourself now you know about the World and it's Truth's whether you'd want your children to read books which aren't true? (some of them anyway)...

The News also portrays the reality of Life out there with Government lies & Conspiracies of the World... but this doesn't mean to say that the only way to live is to join a gang and get yourself a gun or a rep...

Lot's need to be taken into account...

I bet you that if working hours were slashed and bills came down, we wouldn't see so much problems with gang culture... don't forget that some of these kids sell drugs to help out their one parent families...

This isn't right... this life of hardship.... things need to change... i swear sometimes it's like an open prison of which you are allowed to work for your cash and then you are allowed out to go home to try and live a family life... should be Family first... work second....