What is going on in Britain???

Originally posted by crusaderiam
It's all police state BS, the gov has no right to tell you how to discipline your kids, there is a big difference between and spanking or a slap along side the head and beating the living crap out of a kid. The gov just wants to take your kids and turn them into drugged up zombies and they probably get more abuse from the sicko's running the child care services than anything.

I don't know if they allow you to have guns in England or not, but if everyone had a gun on themselves even in the US, the idiot gang members would think twice about attacking or threatening someone because they could end up dead themselves.

Allowed guns, yes.

Allowed to use them for self-defence? Not officially.

The thing is all this talk of being hard on crime by the loonie labour freaks is pure bs.
But when you speak of the parties that support corporal punishment like the BNP etc it's like "Oh but they are too nasty and not 'nice' enough.'
It's like 'Hello! Being nice-guy-norman is what got us into this mess!'
People are waking up to the bs but there's some serious fixing to do.

i dont think this is a conspiracy or is it?

reply to post by PRjudo


i do read my thread about jon venables, facebook has been hacked with pro venables bots, using angry citizens as bait for media
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 13-3-2010 by jumpingbeanz]

Originally posted by Muckster
Scum breeding scum... if my kid had taking a beating off of a father protecting his daughter he would have got another one when he got home...

I agree with the scum comment, but you are eagerly swapping one extreme for another. Anyhow. If they were brought up properly they would not be threatening families with knives in the first place.

In the U.S. it seems an increasing trend that prisons have become privatized, linked to many of the same private security corporations working overseas in the Middle East and Africa. Tax dollars going to private industries with political ties; not sure if this is the case in the United Kingdom, but if it is, it makes sense to crowd the prisons, as these corporations make money per person they hold in these prisons.

reply to post by SteveR


Yes but that’s the point... For my Son to receive a beating he would have to do something which i know he probably wouldn’t do because of the way I’ve raised him...

There has to be a deterrent though... otherwise your words are empty.

People like to think that "having a sensible talk" and "explaining right from wrong" work on there own... sure they are great tools for a parent... But when you live in an area where nine out of ten kids are in a gang that’s involved in crime... and the local drug dealer in a flash car is who the kids aspire to be... you need something a little stronger than harsh words!!! Kids will always see how far they can push and, in my experience, if you are seen as weak they will lose respect for you!

It only seems extreme when you live in an ideal world!

It seems that a lot of people think that if you agree with smacking you are somehow a sadists who enjoys hurting children... that couldn’t be further from the truth... like i said earlier... i have never had to smack my children... and it’s something i truly hope i don’t have to do... But they know that if i was pushed to far its one of the options i could (and would) use.

For me the liberal talking approach is merely the beginning... how far it goes after that depends on the kids... and parents who don’t take it any further, even when their child has lost control and is hurting others, is in my opinion far more guilty of abuse than any father who gives his son a smack for pulling a knife out on a family on a train!!!!!



[edit on 14-3-2010 by Muckster]

Originally posted by vardlokkur
In the U.S. it seems an increasing trend that prisons have become privatized, linked to many of the same private security corporations working overseas in the Middle East and Africa. Tax dollars going to private industries with political ties; not sure if this is the case in the United Kingdom, but if it is, it makes sense to crowd the prisons, as these corporations make money per person they hold in these prisons.

I was a lurker on this board for quite a long time before I started posting. Unfortunately, when I did start posting it was just at the time that America's 'Second Red Scare' started to take-off with some fairly idiotic anti-socialist/communist/confusethetwo-ist ranting about Obama's administration and using Britain as an example of the 'socialist nightmare' in America's future.

As many of my posts have pointed out, things have been grim in certain aspects of British society. However, rather than because of any socialist state that Britain is meant to have, much of the issues are actually anything but 'socialist' issues. NHS scare stories are a good example of this: the perils of socialist medicine. However, as I've tried explaining (and it falls on deaf ears because it doesn't fit the agenda) that much of the nightmare in our hospitals is due to the burgeoning involvement of private business: practically the opposite of the foul socialism that is meant to be hiding under American beds. The key word(s) in all this is 'Private Finance Initiative'.

There's another thread current on these boards about a school that has CCTV cameras in its toilets. If you look under the hood of the story, the school is actually an 'Academy' and has Private Finance Initiative Involvement.

Another hardy perennial that appears on these boards is the watchful eye of the Police State in the form of CCTV. However, again, the reality is that whilst there is a lot of cameras in public places, the majority of the CCTV networks are actually related to private business and private land.

Now where all this relates to your post is that, Private Finance Initiatives are also involved in prisons in England and Wales and have been for some time. Off the top of my head, I think there's at least 10 prisons now involved and more being planned.

What's particularly frustrating for me as a poster is that I'm not just explaining things away here or 'debunking' other people's posts and threads as there are some serious conspiracies behind all this: Britain is being robbed to the tune of billions privatised by the 'back-door' as we sleep and our government is basically in bed with 'Big Business' rather than socialism and communism as many in America would claim. Yet no one really gives a # as none of this serves the Red Scare agenda thrown about by right wing America.


[edit on 14-3-2010 by Merriman Weir]

These case's of neglect and 'yob' culture are constantly brought up in the UK media.
Usually the blame is passed between the Police and the Social Services, for neglecting the victims as well as the actual hellraisers who commit the crimes.
Ive seen a lot of people saying here how they raise their kids not to act like this. Thats exactly what most of the parents of the yobs belive too. (my kid wouldnt harm a fly! E.t.c.)
This brings about the arguement that the parents are blind to what their children actually get up too. There only made aware of this when the police come knocking the door and serve them a ''magical'' ASBO that will stop any future offence caused by the convicted 'yob'.
Then we can look at the Police, and the constantly argued about plague of paperwork they have to fill out for each infringement.
Then the CPO's (community police officer) who patrole the streets but dont have the same power as a Police Officer.
There presence may be good, but their contribution is not as good as actually having a real police officer to deal with a situation. Aparently their there just to do minor roles to free up more time for regular Police officers.
Then the Social Services. Again, loads of paper work and heavily understaffed.
Heck, my local council are going as far as the USA to recruit staff.
Their work load is deamed 'stressful' due to splitting up familys, and because of this, alot of workers are treading the fine line between actually protecting children or to demonising the social services, because every MISTAKE is pounced upon by the media, whilst every success goes unnoticed... -That also goes for all public services.

Today I red in Daily Mail that in East Anglia some large company is employing ONLY those with fluent Polish language skills for the work on production line.

I love England - it is hard to find another country with such a high level of tolerance to cretinism. In any other place people would be on streets.

reply to post by Esrom Escutcheon Esquire

Ive seen a lot of people saying here how they raise their kids not to act like this. Thats exactly what most of the parents of the yobs belive too. (my kid wouldnt harm a fly! E.t.c.)
This brings about the arguement that the parents are blind to what their children actually get up too.

I know exactly what my kids get up to because, unlike some of the parents where i live, i do not allow my kids to aimlessly roam the streets with no purpose.

I have always played a role in my children’s out of school activities... My daughter belongs to several clubs (sporting and music) and she is not far away from being old enough to come clay shooting with me (something she is very excited about)

Parenting is something that needs to be taken extremely seriously... It is the biggest responsibility anybody will every take. Raising a human being!!!

Some parents seem to think that just giving a kid a key to the front door and shouting "be home before ten" is job done...

Raising a child goes way beyond their early years and if you do not continue to play a part in their teenage years they will seek attention elsewhere!!

The other difference is not being naive... i remember what i got up to when i was a kid and the scams i would try on my parents... very few worked because my father (like me now) had seen it all before!

As much as i love my children (more than anything in the world) i also no that they are NOT little angels who would never do any harm... My kids know that if a teacher reports to me, any ill behaviour, there will be trouble when they get home.

I agree with what you are saying... but do not tar all parents with the same brush!

I have made some friends on ATS who are very sensible people who i know are (or will make) great parents!

There is hope for the race

Originally posted by FIFIGI
Today I red in Daily Mail that in East Anglia some large company is employing ONLY those with fluent Polish language skills for the work on production line.

My partner, who has recently found herself looking for work, has been told exactly the same thing, although we're at the other side of the country. Despite having a good degree and so on, she's had no luck finding work either in her previous field or a new one. She was told at the job centre that there's quite a bit of work in Manchester if you can speak Polish or are willing to learn Polish. It seems there's quite a lot of Polish-run business springing-up and they're really only "practical" for them (quoting there) to take on people who can speak their language.

My partner is pretty incensed with this as her parents were East European asylum seekers - from Hungary in the 1950s - rather than economic migrants, and learning English was a priority and expected. How the hell did it turn around?

[edit on 14-3-2010 by Merriman Weir]

Originally posted by Esrom Escutcheon Esquire
These case's of neglect and 'yob' culture are constantly brought up in the UK media.
Usually the blame is passed between the Police and the Social Services, for neglecting the victims as well as the actual hellraisers who commit the crimes.
Ive seen a lot of people saying here how they raise their kids not to act like this. Thats exactly what most of the parents of the yobs belive too. (my kid wouldnt harm a fly! E.t.c.)

Whilst it's undoubtedly ghoulish and in poor taste, I must admit to some schadenfreude when I read stories in the news about yobs getting killed or badly hurt. Often you see the grieving parents holding a framed photo of the deceased and the dead youth is invariably pulling their best 'hard man' face or has a spliff in one hand and either a can of super cheap and super strength lager or is making a gun sign with his other hand. 'He was an angel', 'he never hurt anyone', 'he was as good as gold' and so on: despite the fact that the story also points out that he had previous for all kinds of robbery and general thuggery.

I'm also particularly fond of roadside memorials of joy riders and the like when the dead are described as 'good guyz' and were 'taken 2 soon'. There's a more permanent memorial to a lad who got run over less than a 100 yards from here and from the spray-can eulogies on walls (always other people's walls) and even on the actual road surface, you'd think this lad was the on a fast track to canonisation rather than the known mugger and car thief he was in life.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


We the people are nothing but puppets and you can not heap all the blame on a puppet, as it's the government who pulls the strings and the buck stops with them. At the end of the day they are soley responsible for the state of our country and New Labour has been an absolute disaster in every department. They have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I have never come across a political party as corrupt, idiotic and as fractured as New Labour and everyone's scratching their heads wondering why our country is so broken. Isn't it obvious.

Youth crime under New Labour is the highest it's ever been and it's spiralling out of control. The government has even encouraged judges to hand out lenient sentences to repeat offenders and used over crowding in prisons as a lame excuse to do so. It's one failed policy after another that has contributed to making our society broken and that's a fact. I don't even need mention the benefits system which has also contributed to the state our country is now in.

New Labour is a school bully when it comes to playground taunts.
Innocent behaviour: But children are being accused of racism While bending over backwards to protect the guilty, this Government has a long history of penalising the innocent. As we reveal today, the latest targets are young children accused of using playground language considered homophobic or racist by State officials. Instead of being gently informed the words they are using (which most are too young to understand) are inappropriate or unkind, they are being placed on school 'hate registers' and formally reported to the Town Hall Stasi. Thus, a 10-year-old's taunt may haunt him in later...

article.wn.com...

The utter failure of New Labour
mythoughtsmycountry.blogspot.com...

Record peacetime debt.
Record peacetime deficit.
The first fascist MEP elected to the European Parliament.
UK drops from 7th to 24th in international maths and literacy rankings.
100 new taxes on the middle class.
Council taxes double for the middle classes.
Council tax revaluation if Labour are voted back in.
4,300 petty new laws.
Authoritarian police state oppressing legitimate protest, photography and law abiding citizens.
Doubled the length of tax law and created a mass of new regulations.
Sold the UK's gold reserves at the bottom of the market.
Ripped up a system of financial regulation proven over 300 years; 10 years later the UK has 5 Failed banks.
Destroyed the best private pension provision in europe, taking £100bn from prudent pensioners.
Destroyed more of the UK's manufacturing sector than Thatcher.
Politicisation of the police, the civil service, education

The more this government interferes in our private lives, the more our country becomes fractured and broken.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Things can only get better


[edit on 14-3-2010 by kindred]

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

How the hell did it turn around?

[edit on 14-3-2010 by Merriman Weir]

I am not English. So I don't know the answer to your question. However since I live in England for 6 years now, I have uninformed reckon - English are asleep and think it is cool to be ignorant and conservative and reserved.

Thank you for reading my "important thoughts".



[edit on 14-3-2010 by FIFIGI]

reply to post by Muckster


Good for you and the guy for taking action. Thats the thing about those gangs, you won't take on 10 people, i don't care how hard someone thinks they are but if you can grab one and hold him in some kind of lock, standing him between the gang and you then you can maybe control the situation by threatening to snap his wrist.

The reason the police tone changed is the army guys history, you see as he was in the army he has training and that training actually counts against you! I know because it's the same for anyone with decent martial arts training. Especially if you hurt someone because they'll claim you could have defended yourself without hurting anyone People who make those comments have never had to defend themselves.

And it's always typical of the parent. The kid will go home crying their little heart out and the parent, who obviously thinks that little johnny coudl never mean any harm becomes outraged. They don't listen to the police who say it was 10 on 1, nah the kid could never hurt a fly. I just get so angry at these little kids because they think they're so tough, but only when they're in a gang.

As for physical punishment, well my parents always had that as the absolute last resort, i was only hit like 3 times in my life and because they kept it as a threat and didn't overuse it i was rightfully scared of being slapped. I didn't turn out to be a thug, i have a clean criminal record etc etc so for all those saying that physical punishment doesn't work, well history is against you. The problem is that many of the scumbag parents overuse it and the kids don't fear it anymore.

It is the threat of physical punishment that was so scary, unless you've been raised like that you wouldn't understand i guess. There was no more scary thing when you're 10 years old than "wait until your dad gets home" lol.

As i said in my first post, parents want to be friends with their kids and it completely undermines their authority. Others don't seem to care what their kids are doing and when neighbors complain the parents will laugh at them. The kids take that onboard, the parents call the neighbor a busy body (well i'm sure they use stonger language) and so the kid gets the message that they should get revenge for the neighbor coming around.

reply to post by kindred


So, who would you vote for, out of all the UK candidates?

Originally posted by kindred
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

We the people are nothing but puppets and you can not heap all the blame on a puppet, as it's the government who pulls the strings and the buck stops with them. At the end of the day they are soley responsible for the state of our country and New Labour has been an absolute disaster in every department. They have no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I have never come across a political party as corrupt, idiotic and as fractured as New Labour and everyone's scratching their heads wondering why our country is so broken. Isn't it obvious.

That is one of the biggest and most pathetic, powerless statements i have ever read. It is the people who have the power and don't ever forget it. You can talk of being puppets and even some NWO power structure if you like but in the end, if the people rose up then no power coudl stop them. Think of the UK alone, at most you would have 1 million vs 59 million, who do you think has the power?

If the people allow a government to run rampant then the people have only themselves to blame.

Originally posted by kindred
Youth crime under New Labour is the highest it's ever been and it's spiralling out of control. The government has even encouraged judges to hand out lenient sentences to repeat offenders and used over crowding in prisons as a lame excuse to do so. It's one failed policy after another that has contributed to making our society broken and that's a fact. I don't even need mention the benefits system which has also contributed to the state our country is now in.

Labour has introduced many stupid laws but society has changed as well and the role of children has become very different, not just in the UK but USA as well. I think it's a sign of our shared culture.

At least we agree on the benefits system although hopefully you realise the benefits system has it's place and is not just full of frauds

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

As for physical punishment, well my parents always had that as the absolute last resort, i was only hit like 3 times in my life and because they kept it as a threat and didn't overuse it i was rightfully scared of being slapped. I didn't turn out to be a thug, i have a clean criminal record etc etc so for all those saying that physical punishment doesn't work, well history is against you. The problem is that many of the scumbag parents overuse it and the kids don't fear it anymore.

Well stated and exactly my point... We need more common sense!! If over used smacking offers no deterrent at all and can often just harden a child’s heart and lessen a child’s ability to empathise!!

However, like you, i was only smacked a few times... and all for good reasons!!! The fear of being smacked meant that simply getting "the look" from one of my parents was enough to bring me to an instant standstill and focus my attention!

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

That is one of the biggest and most pathetic, powerless statements i have ever read. It is the people who have the power and don't ever forget it. You can talk of being puppets and even some NWO power structure if you like but in the end, if the people rose up then no power coudl stop them. Think of the UK alone, at most you would have 1 million vs 59 million, who do you think has the power?

Yes we have power in numbers, but because our society is so fractured, we are basically powerless. It's all fare and well talking about if we do this or if we do that, but the truth is we don't and we won't and everything will stay the same and nothing will change. As a matter of fact, most people these days have lived next door to their neighbours for literally years and still don't know who they are and it's getting worse simply because people these days no longer trust one another. So in that respect how do you expect people to come together when there's no trust.

[edit on 14-3-2010 by kindred]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
Only 7 years ago, a million people marched in London to protest against the Iraq War. In a nation of 60 million....that's a large show of opinion. In a nation with less than 40% voter turn out...so many people actively voicing their disapproval is significant. BBC

Guess what happened? Yup. We had a War in Iraq. The marchers were dismissed and the people returned home with less respect for politicians than we woke up with.

Ever since Wat Tyler was murdered at Smithfield, popular protest has been ignored by people in power and exploited by those that want power.