What is going on in Britain???

reply to post by Muckster


Maybe it's time parents started raising their kids properly. This behaviour is learnt from their parents, and is sometimes a direct rebellion against the meaningless of their lives. If no one cares about them, why should they care about anyone else? It's not just discipline that's missing, although that is also lacking, it's any kind of family relationship at all. Everyone in this messed-up country tries to shirk responsibility for ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING! It's always someone else's fault and someone else's problem. Our whole country needs a severe attitude adjustment. We, all of us, have this deluded sense of entitlement, and we need to grow up. Our youth are a symptom, not the disease itself.

reply to post by onetruesaxon


thanks for the congrats, hey this is just MY take on what i think is wrong with the attitude of the police,that's all.

come on do you really think they are like they used to be? they look about as friendly and approachable in that SWAT looking gear that the police all where as a pit bull with rabies!

YOU must be a model citizen and presume i'm what?

reply to post by onetruesaxon


thanks for the congrats, hey this is just MY take on what i think is wrong with the attitude of the police,that's all.

come on do you really think they are like they used to be? they look about as friendly and approachable in that SWAT looking gear that the police all where as a pit bull with rabies!

YOU must be a model citizen and presume i'm what?

We're suffering exactly the same plight here in New Zealand. We even had a referendum last year to get our ANTI-SMACKING law overturned, and even though it was overwhelmingly in favour of being repealed, the Government chose to IGNORE it!

I will always contend that while a child is in its informative years, the occasional correctional smack on the bottom, does far more good than harm.

I'm just darned lucky that now just the sound of my raised voice is enough for my 7 & 9 year old, that they know better than to step out of line

And for all my early discipline and sternness, they have grown up to be the most respectful children, perform well at school, and are well liked by their peers.

I guess that a little discipline mixed with a liberal dash of hugs and being told how much we LOVE them, has worked well for us!

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
We have the largest prison population in western europe, which means its failing and costing the british Tax Payer billions. We need to look at the root of these crimes, poverty being the largest contributer.

Hello, Woodward.

I disagree with this ''poverty'' angle; there is no poverty in the UK.
The whole point of the welfare state is so even those that aren't well off get a regular income to pay for all the essentials.
People blame poverty, but in reality it's down to greed, laziness and an unwarranted sense of entitlement.

I, for example, live in an ex-council house in a comparatively good area, although I would most likely be thought of as 'middle class' ( as much as I dislike these labels ).
I absolutely fail to see what I've got, that people living in 'deprived' areas haven't.
Many people in 'poor' areas have plasma tvs, i-phones, DVD players, PCs, playstations etc. Not to mention all the usual and obligatory appliances.

If I want an i-phone, then I save up the money from my wages to buy it, yet these anti-social people will just find a vulnerable target to steal it off. That's not poverty ! It's a far more basic problem; that is a complete lack of morals and responsibilty.

reply to post by Muckster


It was simply a suggestion on the Thatcher situation as i was not living here at the time..but your points made about her time in power are aspects i wasnt fully aware of, so thank you for correcting me on the matter.. a lot of the time i hear things started declining more rapidly when Blair took over..
As you say, there is not one or two reasons why things are the way they are, there is really innumerable factors involved..

reply to post by SpaceJockey


Alright, SpaceJockey ?

That is sad to hear. I have a strong bond with New Zealand, and I've always felt that New Zealand - more than any of the other ex-colonies - has the most in common with the Old Country, but sadly it looks like you pick up our bad habits too.

How do they actually enforce that anti-smacking law ? Has any parent actually been prosecuted for 'mildly' disciplining their child ?
It's not long until we see something like that implemented over here...

reply to post by ironorchid


Sorry, even though your reply wasnt to me, i hope you dont mind my feedback You are absolutely correct!! Parents are really where A LOT of this responsibility is on, as it very well should be.. one makes the decision to have the child(ren) and should absolutely do what they can to ensure the best possible upbringing for them.. so many i see today simply feel once they have the child(ren) it is then up to the educational system and the television programming to teach and raise them..and i am sure we all have noticed the extremely bad idea that one is!
My husband and i have an 8 year old son, my husband works while (until our son is quite a bit older at least) i remain home to tend to the home and our 8 year old..people do actually try to make one feel low when saying
'ohhh your a housewife....how nice' type comments and accompanying tones of course.. but i personally can not believe its as acceptable today as it has become for both parents to work and pawn their child(ren) off onto day care workers and often, perfect strangers.. we do not make much money, but what counts to us is that our son is given parental time and dedication, love and attention he should have...

Before i end this i would also like to say to those here who say that they themselves arent parents but that they 'know' how a child should be raised, is in my opinion unable to say so, until one is a parent they have no idea what it entails. and no one who is a parent can explain to a non parent what it is like..
If a child does not have a solid foundation of home, upbringing and parenting in that home, much can, does, and has gone drastically, scarily wrong.

Have to go sooner than planned but would like to write more on this when time allows.
Be well, to all

Originally posted by Benji1999
reply to post by SpaceJockey

 

Alright, SpaceJockey ?

That is sad to hear. I have a strong bond with New Zealand, and I've always felt that New Zealand - more than any of the other ex-colonies - has the most in common with the Old Country, but sadly it looks like you pick up our bad habits too.

How do they actually enforce that anti-smacking law ? Has any parent actually been prosecuted for 'mildly' disciplining their child ?
It's not long until we see something like that implemented over here...

Hi Benji1999, yeah, it's been a slippery slope here since the last Labour Govt brought in these new laws. Was really frustrating when we finally got rid of them after 3 terms, and put National in, to have them IGNORE an over whelming referendum!

Anyway, I guess that they're really looking to catch the serious abusers, but as usual nothing has changed there, in that by the time they catch them, the damage is already done (usually a child's death).

Parents are getting prosecuted here. EXAMPLE:

Just last week a woman was jailed for smacking her child with a garden hose. She hit him because he wagged school. He reported his parents to the police and now the family is in disarray and may not recover from this interference. The judge in the case demonstrated his own ignorance of social history when he made this comment as reported in the Herald: ‘Judge Wade said the statue of Justice above London's Old Bailey court carried the inscription: "Defend the Children of the Poor and Punish the Wrongdoer".’ The judge went on to moralise how he was doing the same thing in this case.

Annoying thing is that we had suitable laws in place, but by modifying it, they brought evey GOOD parent under the ABUSE umbrella, so now we can't risk even a light smack!

So it is frightening that we now live in fear of our children, by giving them this extra power to use against you

reply to post by SpaceJockey


That legislation is absurd; and I bet the good people of NZ are taking that with a discontented murmur, and not much other than that.
I'm not insulting the NZ populace there, as we're exactly the same as that in Britain.
Britain, in recent years, was known throughout the world as a land of tolerance, fair play, and always playing with a straight bat !
Sadly, that appears to have gone by the wayside recently - although most of us Brits ( and every other nationality ) still have those qualities in abundance, we're running out of any realistic power we may have... I feel helpless when I see the brick wall of power-crazed monkeys, jobsworths, and people that just won't listen !

reply to post by Benji1999


Yep, it's sad to see what's going on here and in the UK, but rather tolerate what we're seeing here than over there, to be honest. At least we haven't reached the depths of the crazy PC crowd that you guys are suffering under!

reply to post by SpaceJockey


Yeah, you're probably right, but I don't think the reality will be too much different for people in other 'Western' countries.

What's the situation like over there, in regards to CCTV cameras ? I imagine that with Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and other cities, probably well over 60% of the NZ population live in cities; these cameras will become de rigeur in a New Zealander city near you ( all under the pretext of 'public safety' and ''security'' of course ).



[edit on 15-3-2010 by Benji1999]

[edit on 15-3-2010 by Benji1999]

reply to post by Muckster

Cases like the 64-yr old man just makes me want to grab a bat and dispense by own justice on these youth.

Those kids should be tried for murder if not conspiracy to commit murder or manslaughter

reply to post by Benji1999


Just like originally in the UK, they are being added here insidiously, under the pretext of fighting crime

Probably a bigger concern at present, that hasn't been mentioned here (at least in this thread), is the new INTERNET CENSORING (filtering) LAW that ISP's are being pressured to adopt and implement!!!

You've probably heard about the Australian Govt, doing the same thing recently under the pretext of fighting CP, by banning/blocking certain sites, but we all know that it's the thin edge of the wedge that allows them far too much control. Other countries that have introduced this ruse, have used this system to block all kinds of sites (ATS???), that may challenge free speech.

We have the cheek in the western world to condemn countries like China & Iran for their human rights records, but have no trouble doing implementing similar restrictions 'for our own good' HAH!

Definitely not liking the way we are heading...

Originally posted by SpaceJockey
Probably a bigger concern at present, that hasn't been mentioned here (at least in this thread), is the new INTERNET CENSORING (filtering) LAW that ISP's are being pressured to adopt and implement!!!

Yeah i'm currently researching this one so that i can write a full thread about it. I mean i know about the law but i want to get all the facts together and attack it from a number of angles.

All i will say here is that people need to start looking up encrypted VPN's and using them, they're only around 5 pounds a month for a 128bit encrypted connection with decent speed. The problem is that they are not simply going to find filesharers, they are going to take measures against "suspected filesharers". Suspected, you don't even have to be gulity! That's only a tiny fraction of the terrible nature of this new law.

Anyway yeah i'm going to write up a nice long post about that one so keep a look out for it Will be a week or so i think.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I look forward to reading your new thread once you get it up.

The only problem I have with the VPN and hide-your-ip options is that for serious downloaders, there's a massive drop in SPEED. So for all the hype about everyone having broadband, SUPER FAST INTERNET, they're making it so that there's little point paying for it, as we're getting throttled back just as fast!

I'm sure that each ISP that signs up to the new censorship, will lose customers in droves. At least Orcon here doesn't appear too keen in implementing it...so far.

Originally posted by Full_Vision
One of my closest friends, is highly educated and in his late 50s ..He has often said how being Brittish no longer means what it used to.. new generations of 'chavs' are creating a football yob kind of image of the Brits instead of the view of decorum and the stance as a nation as a whole that once was reason for pride..

I missed this post the first time around, apologies. If your friend is in his late 50s, then he's certainly old enough to remember the football of the 1970s in Britain. Britain had fantastic amounts of football hooliganism in the 1970s, arguably worse than is around now.

Also, I get the impression your 'highly educated' friend might be middle-class (in the way it's perceived in Britain, not this catch-all approached in America). What has changed since the 1970s is that what was a relatively working-class game up until, say the 1990s, has seen the demographic change, in part due to the cost of attending the game. You need a fair amount of money in the bank these days to go to big name football matches and travel around the country to get to them.

Originally posted by Benji1999
Hello, Woodward.

I disagree with this ''poverty'' angle; there is no poverty in the UK.
The whole point of the welfare state is so even those that aren't well off get a regular income to pay for all the essentials.
People blame poverty, but in reality it's down to greed, laziness and an unwarranted sense of entitlement.

I, for example, live in an ex-council house in a comparatively good area, although I would most likely be thought of as 'middle class' ( as much as I dislike these labels ).
I absolutely fail to see what I've got, that people living in 'deprived' areas haven't.
Many people in 'poor' areas have plasma tvs, i-phones, DVD players, PCs, playstations etc. Not to mention all the usual and obligatory appliances.

If I want an i-phone, then I save up the money from my wages to buy it, yet these anti-social people will just find a vulnerable target to steal it off. That's not poverty ! It's a far more basic problem; that is a complete lack of morals and responsibilty.

I agree to an extent. The problem with poverty is that it doesn't have 'fixed' definition. The markers that are used to measure poverty change over time, often 10 years. The idea that poverty constitutes a lack of food and shelter isn't one that's generally used by governments, economists, sociologists and the like. Markers of poverty tend to reflect a certain amount of what could be called status goods or luxury goods and poverty is often tied into the potential for social mobility.

That's not to say real poverty - as in the old fashioned sense - doesn't exist at all though, it's merely manifesting in other ways and in other demographics. Fuel poverty is going to be massive and for a lot of those going to be hit by fuel poverty it's not a case of merely not having a plasma TV or paying fuel bills. In ten years time or so, with the increasingly old and non-working demographic, many not having any pension to speak-of, it will be more a case of food or warmth. This is something that's already affecting many, many pensioners now and will get worse.

Being a society of consumers is one of the root causes of the problems we face.. We have become a society of waste.

The human spirit needs to create, to make, and to feel usefull.. what are you if you do not have a usefull life?

In our society how many people actually feel their jobs are usefull! I know I have found few jobs where I feel usefull...

I had high hopes working on EU wide Enviromental legislation and then to find it really is a coporate scam to add revenue streams undermined those "good" feelings.

My job was to make the rich richer and was not me doing my part on saving the planet..

I know a lot of people quiting their jobs at high levels becuase they feel their lives have become useless and worthless!

This is the negative state of our society.. No more than a society of consumers and wasters.

Blaming the poor is simply wrong, labeling them lazy is wrong..

Soceity is creating the loop to hold them in place, that prevent them being usefull and then excusing any bad actions..

But what point is there for them to the care about a society that considers them useless!

Self worth is making and creating things.. self worth is doing something worth while with your life..

Blaming booze or ignorance is simply a lazy response to the problem...

I can dig out references to drunken gangs wandering around here looking for a fight from the 12th century, no different than modern football issues.

I can dig out references from hundreds of years ago of women dressing as men and men dressing as women, getting drunk, fighting, causing riot.. no differnent than a modern Saturday night our (albeit a night out in Brighton)

What I can't dig out is evidence of society failing everyone so drastically and doing the opposit to what is sensible, correct or just.

The failing today is in our society.. and to be honest in my opinion it will only get worse until society itself changes.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Before i knew him he was considered more 'upper class' considering his scottish family and the universities he attended, but not at all these days, he can speak latin fluently though lol but still below middle class on the proverbial ladder now.. as for the football, it was more about the way its seemingly turned into a 'religious' movement over the past years.. not the game itself. Creating a culture of little boy men so to say.. which i see everyday..

But obviously living here means little as sadly i am yank by birth (sure as hell wasnt by choice i tell ya) so i shall leave you all to it Be Well