What is going on in Britain???

Originally posted by Full_Vision
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Before i knew him he was considered more 'upper class' considering his scottish family and the universities he attended, but not at all these days, he can speak latin fluently though lol but still below middle class on the proverbial ladder now.. as for the football, it was more about the way its seemingly turned into a 'religious' movement over the past years.. not the game itself. Creating a culture of little boy men so to say.. which i see everyday..

But again, the fanaticism that's found in football, with zealots not thinking twice of inflicting as much harm as possible on the heretics and unbelievers who worship at different temples is not a new one. As I said previously, this was glaringly apparent in the 1970s and old newspaper accounts attest to this. Arguably, for many, it's not been about the game for a long time.

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
Being a society of consumers is one of the root causes of the problems we face.. We have become a society of waste.

The human spirit needs to create, to make, and to feel usefull.. what are you if you do not have a usefull life?

In our society how many people actually feel their jobs are usefull! I know I have found few jobs where I feel usefull...

Precisely. We've lost our connections to so many things. It's rare to see anything food related in the media these days (particularly post-credit crunch) that doesn't talk about how we're no longer connected or have understanding where our food comes from. All too often children and adults can't make the connection with what's on their plates and things in fields.

As you say, I think employment is a similar thing. There's no manufacturing industry in this country: nobody makes anything these days. Everybody seems to be either dealing with some fairly intangible things in a service industry, selling things other people in other countries have made or are merely part of a huge administration process.

Whilst I wouldn't go as far as to say that there's necessarily always some form of job satisfaction in making tangible things - I know plenty of people that would attest otherwise after working in mills and factories - but there was, as you've said, a usefulness and a purpose to what they were doing that seems lacking in so many jobs now.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
Precisely. We've lost our connections to so many things. It's rare to see anything food related in the media these days (particularly post-credit crunch) that doesn't talk about how we're no longer connected or have understanding where our food comes from. All too often children and adults can't make the connection with what's on their plates and things in fields.

I couldn't agree more with this one. Adults seem to think that all vegetables and fruits are perfectly formed and come out of the ground dirt free. I heard one woman say "omg potatos come out of the ground, ok i'm never eating those again". I felt like telling her that pretty much every vegetable comes with dirt on it, but she may never have eaten again lol.

The kids very often can't identify vegetables either as they haven't seen any before. It's really very sad and it's one of the reasons obesity is rising. There are children now who have been eating processed food from the day they were born. Stuff slid out of packets, thrown in a microwave and not one part of it is fresh.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
Whilst I wouldn't go as far as to say that there's necessarily always some form of job satisfaction in making tangible things - I know plenty of people that would attest otherwise after working in mills and factories - but there was, as you've said, a usefulness and a purpose to what they were doing that seems lacking in so many jobs now.

The problem with industry jobs is that people often don't want to do them. Working with your hands is now seen as a job for stupid people. Now while i have in the past (and still do) say that not everyone can be a scientist and these people should do manual jobs, i also recognise that many smart people do manual jobs. They find more satisfaction in machining a custom engine part than crunching numbers.

I myself have built things as a hobby because it really is quite nice to take a load of raw materials and turn it into something, stand back and be proud of your creation I think many jobs don't fufill a very key need in many people. They come home, feeling as if they have accomplished nothing and it's understandable when all they have done is enter data into a computer.

I used to work in computers but i installed servers and fixed things, i can't imagine sittig in an office all day and just atpping away at a keybaord without any sense of accomplishment, it must be soul destroying.

Probably off topic but i woke up in a musing mood

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I have to admit living with the sea and fishing boats on one side and Downland farms on the other.. I find it almost impossible to beleive anyone could think that way about their food... (but know they do)

I think your points are valid, society is one where the internet is seen as a basic right rather than working.. Self worth comes from being an armchair thinker rather than a skilled worker.

In that vain we have become a society of wasters, which is indicitive of the chant from society of "I have to have" while the system dangles the carrot of a lottery ticket infront of peoples faces.

Most people I knows hope of a bright futures seems to lie in a lottery ticket than the chance to work their way out of debt.. the gov seems to have the same attitude on the global markets..

*pictures Gordon standing there with crossed fingers and a bankers lottery ticket*

The gov should be investing in the infrastructure of the nation and society to enable us to build our way out of this mess.. Withuot that I can only see us heading in one direction... downwards, which I find really sad.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
The problem with industry jobs is that people often don't want to do them. Working with your hands is now seen as a job for stupid people.

Now where did this viewpoint actually come from? Certainly not from family members, neighbours and friends who were all doing similar jobs. This view actually came from outside the working-classes who did predominantly 'manual' jobs up until relatively recently.

Now while i have in the past (and still do) say that not everyone can be a scientist and these people should do manual jobs, i also recognise that many smart people do manual jobs. They find more satisfaction in machining a custom engine part than crunching numbers.

I think this is slowly (too slowly) changing. I think a focus on vocational training is actually coming back to schools. However, as laudable as it is, it's a bit pointless unless there's actual vocational industries to find work in. All this is doing is teaching people yet more skills suitable for fields of employment that don't exist.

I myself have built things as a hobby because it really is quite nice to take a load of raw materials and turn it into something, stand back and be proud of your creation

I don't think enough people have hobbies any more, particularly hobbies where they can find achievement and satisfaction if it's lacking in their actual employment. Not enough people have real gardens now, allotments, hobbies that involve tools and so on. Not enough people actually read educational material for 'fun' and 'enjoyment' either. The idea of educational self-improvement, purely for the joy of learning as opposed to getting a 'better job' is now lost on so many people. Even the idea of making things around the house became associated purely with the idea of doing-up homes to sell, rather than to just do stuff with your hands and make things.

I think many jobs don't fufill a very key need in many people. They come home, feeling as if they have accomplished nothing and it's understandable when all they have done is enter data into a computer.

I used to work in computers but i installed servers and fixed things, i can't imagine sittig in an office all day and just atpping away at a keybaord without any sense of accomplishment, it must be soul destroying.

This is what I actually do on a part-time basis! If I was only a small cog in a big wheel and only handled part of an administration process, I'd wonder what was the point too. However, I'm lucky in that what happens in our office, I see the very start and the very finish of a convoluted process and so I see a tangible outcome from something that started as a telephone/postal/email enquiry. There is some 'sense of achievement' as it's changing people's in a fairly self-evident way and I periodically see the people I, for want of a better word, 'process'.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
Now where did this viewpoint actually come from? Certainly not from family members, neighbours and friends who were all doing similar jobs. This view actually came from outside the working-classes who did predominantly 'manual' jobs up until relatively recently.

I think it has trickled down from the middle classes. Not that all middle class people think it of course (i'm apparently middle class and i don't think it). It should also be noted that there are quite a few manual jobs which pay extremely well. I have a plasterer friend who is earning stupid amounts atm.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
I don't think enough people have hobbies any more, particularly hobbies where they can find achievement and satisfaction if it's lacking in their actual employment. Not enough people have real gardens now, allotments, hobbies that involve tools and so on. Not enough people actually read educational material for 'fun' and 'enjoyment' either. The idea of educational self-improvement, purely for the joy of learning as opposed to getting a 'better job' is now lost on so many people. Even the idea of making things around the house became associated purely with the idea of doing-up homes to sell, rather than to just do stuff with your hands and make things.

I was raised doing work on our allotment and loved it! Three days a week we were up there and we still have it now, although i can't work there, other than picking and maybe some weeding. At home i love our garden and have turned it into a sort of mini wildelife oasis lol. Buddleia for butterflies (butterflies are all dying out ), a nettle patch for them to lay eggs, sunflowers for the birds, bird feeders, bird boxes and this year i'm putting in a pond for the frogs and hoefully the odd newt . Man i'm only 24 and i sound like an old guy!

As for the rest i agree as well.

what is going on with Britain??

Well the Suns out!!!

BLOODY hell... ) There is something you dont see everyday!



korg.

Basically........ Its the Flower Power Generation in Government.en.wikipedia.org...
Luckily I was sent to a Catholic School and the HIPPIES couldn't change their rules and regulations before I left. A few years after I left school in 84 they eventually changed from Corporal Punishment to the now LIMP system.
If they Do The Crime They Do The Time........In 5 Star Accomadation and teach them something productive, which they drop as soon as they leave. Boredom is a very good punishment, why give them something to do?
Children good and bad are treated the same.....oops thats unless they're disruptive they get sent on holidays or given special lessons and tutors and a taxi from door to door. They grow older realise theres no real punishment for crime so why stop. How much does Corporal Punishment cost the tax payer?
I'm Brittish and very annoyed at the liberalism gone mad coupled with Political Correctness its a shambles.
I'm a very Spiritual Person who wouldn't wish anyone ill but how are our children meant to learn what is right or wrong when all they see in the news and in their schools are preferential treatment for those that disrupt, bully, steal and even cause harm to others.


[edit on 16-3-2010 by DreamerOracle]

The OP Muckster asks, "What is going on in Britain???", regarding the behaviour of out-of-control children the media has chosen to focus on.

IMHO, the root of the problem lies in the deliberate breakdown of the family unit, which began in the 1970s and has been left simmering ever since. Up to that point the majority of children left school, went into employment and lived at home until they married. If for any reason they were not able to get a job they could still contribute to the family income with their benefit. This is a crucial point in family life because teenagers consume a huge amount of food, as any parent can attest to.

Benefit allowed extended families to be maintained and enabled the passing on of essential life skills in day to day life. TPTB decided that people should "get on their bikes" in search of work and they also removed benefits from young people. The problems we are seeing today are a direct result of those two, very stupid, actions. The parents of the 'problem' children have never learned how to parent, nor did their own parents.

Britain has never been a 'child friendly' country, in my experience, preferring children to be totally 'invisible' until they become tax payers. I first noticed this on my return from four years in Germany in the late seventies. Politicians have no concept of real life, yet they interfere with it's very foundations and accept no responsibility for their actions.

My late mother always said that there are very few really bad children but far too many helpless parents. This problem will never be solved by excessive punishment, it requires a lot of individual attention. Unfortunately, the problem has been growing exponentially and the 'damaged' outnumber the few equipped to deal with them.

My question is - do we blame the chickens for coming home to roost or the ones who laid, and continue to lay, the eggs that produced the problem?

Originally posted by whitezombie93
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

That's simply not true. Poverty does not cause crime or produce criminals. Yes, you could say that alot of crime is concentrated in poor areas but that does not necessarily mean poverty is the main cause of it. IMO crime is born out of boredom, desperation, lack of understanding and improper education.

Stop me if I'm wrong, but aren't boredom, desperation and improper education all symptoms of poverty. If your not poor you have a job. So you you have at least some kind of education. And if you have a Job that pays the bills it should also take care of the boredom and the desperation.

So really, your statement is a little bit of an oxymoron.

reply to post by thedonjuan


Dude a lot of those poor people still have jobs.. £5.85 an hour.. 40 hours a week=£234 a week.. Take out income tax and national insurance will leave you with about £180... Take out your rent which is on average £100 per week, then travel to work £20 a week, then food, utilities and your council tax which is around £20 a week, oh yeah and your tv licence will leave you in a negative amount of money per week... Hence why it takes two to go and work however even then with clothes and other of lifes essentials you are still left at the bottom of the barrel...
Poor people have jobs too

Originally posted by thedonjuan
Stop me if I'm wrong, but aren't boredom, desperation and improper education all symptoms of poverty.

STOP! There i stopped you

If you are poor you don't have to be bored, my family was poor but there are always ways to entertain yourself that are legal and free. Desperation can come out of poverty, but some people choose not to be desperate, not to be victims and to find some, legal way of making money. Check the job websites, there are tons of jobs, many simple manual labour but many people don't want to do them. As for education, well education is provided by the state and there are tons of people who, instead of going into crime put their nose to the grindstone and worked their arses off to get a decent education.

You know the funny part? Lots of the problem kids are from middle class families, they have the opportunity for good education, they have everything available to prevent boredom and they have money. So i'm afraid what you say here is not quite correct.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by thedonjuan

 

Dude a lot of those poor people still have jobs.. £5.85 an hour.. 40 hours a week=£234 a week.. Take out income tax and national insurance will leave you with about £180... Take out your rent which is on average £100 per week, then travel to work £20 a week, then food, utilities and your council tax which is around £20 a week, oh yeah and your tv licence will leave you in a negative amount of money per week... Hence why it takes two to go and work however even then with clothes and other of lifes essentials you are still left at the bottom of the barrel...
Poor people have jobs too

Very well said sir. I totally agree.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
If you are poor you don't have to be bored, my family was poor but there are always ways to entertain yourself that are legal and free.

Fair enough, but you're the exception, not the rule.

Your family sounds like you had stable parents in a caring relationship. A lot of families in similar situations don't have stable parents so you get domestic violence and disrespectful and psychologically damaged kids.

You know the funny part? Lots of the problem kids are from middle class families, they have the opportunity for good education, they have everything available to prevent boredom and they have money.

Again the exception, not the rule. You can't honestly tell me that a middle class neighborhood is gonna have the same level of youth related crime as a slum. Sure some kids are gonna have problems but the majority would be normal.

So i'm afraid what you say here is not quite correct.

You're right, I'm not 'quite' correct, but I am correct.

You do made valid points. You can pull it together and work yourself out of the hole if you have the patience, but most people don't. There are a lot of jobs out there that people just aren't willing to do, but there still isn't enough jobs for everyone.

When ever we look at a situation we always see through our own eyes. Problem is we're not all the same. Some people can't take the stress and give in to their desperation and lack of understanding.

We have to start dealing with things the way they are, not they way they should be. Its no good going into the situation with the attitude "Well if I can do so can he!" Maybe he can't...

Originally posted by thedonjuan
Fair enough, but you're the exception, not the rule.

Your family sounds like you had stable parents in a caring relationship. A lot of families in similar situations don't have stable parents so you get domestic violence and disrespectful and psychologically damaged kids.

The kids around me were all working class, well the majority anyway. I was one of the poorest but none of them had tons of money and several of them had divorced parents. None of them were involved in crime growing up, so in all truth poverty is no excuse for criminal behavior.

Originally posted by thedonjuan
Again the exception, not the rule. You can't honestly tell me that a middle class neighborhood is gonna have the same level of youth related crime as a slum. Sure some kids are gonna have problems but the majority would be normal.

It depends on the area, a working class area will have problem working class kids, a middle class area has problem middle class kids. However remember it is the middle class ones that have the money to go clubbing at 15, get drunk and cause trouble. I can only speak for my area, but they're middle class kids getting in trouble.

Originally posted by thedonjuan

You're right, I'm not 'quite' correct, but I am correct.

No i was being polite, i'll make it more plain, you are wrong, or at least you're painting things with to narrow a brush.

Originally posted by thedonjuan
You do made valid points. You can pull it together and work yourself out of the hole if you have the patience, but most people don't. There are a lot of jobs out there that people just aren't willing to do, but there still isn't enough jobs for everyone.

It's often nothing to do with patience. Some kids look at their situation, hate it and want to get out, the choice then comes down to individual character. Are you a hard worker, or like the easy route?

Originally posted by thedonjuan
When ever we look at a situation we always see through our own eyes. Problem is we're not all the same. Some people can't take the stress and give in to their desperation and lack of understanding.

Yes they give in and they are therefore pathetic. This society gives people every opportunity and you just have to grab it. Anyone, from the most deprived area can work their arse off and get out of it and some people do that. They prove it can be done and so the others have no excuse. This doesn't mean everyone can be a brain surgeon, but there are jobs to meet every skill set.

Originally posted by thedonjuan
We have to start dealing with things the way they are, not they way they should be. Its no good going into the situation with the attitude "Well if I can do so can he!" Maybe he can't...

What else are we supposed to do? Every opportunity is afforded, job centres even offer training and the government offers funding for adult education! What else would you suggest? We can only excuse behavior to a certain degree.

A sense of belonging and acceptance I believe keeps us all from going under when we are facing tough times, espescially when we are young and confused.
Unfortunately not every human being is accepted.
Some are rejected due to below average looks, shyness,lack of common sense, ect.
If you studied the jails there are not too many beautiful people in there, nor are there too many rich people.
I once had a friend who had a big nose, it stuck out and from certain angles he did look less than pretty,he once confided in me that hardly a day went by where he didnt think about it, he related stories of groups of girls blurting out yuk as he walked by or sat next to them on buses, this friend committed suicide, I guess he couldnt face life being an outcast any longer.
He was an intelligent and sensititive young man who would listen to anyone who was hurting,but he told me once "he would never belong in a world of good looking people".
How many young kids are marginalised because either they are unattractive or have adopted "loser behaviour"?
I wish I had of been educated enough to have took this friend aside and told him some of the most contributing people in history have beem "physically unattractive" that he would meet the right person, a spiritual person someone who could see his true self.
My point is young people go through invisible torments that we as adults cant fathom unless we remember those times.
Many good looking people do have an easier ride than ugly people, and to dispute this is just being blind to reality.
Confidence also is a deciding factor in youngsters behaviour.
We cannot fathom the injury to self esteem that results in a physically ie (sexually unatrractive person being given special treatment.).
Of course we will hear the storys of the ugliest succeeding or the most beautiful failing in life.
But what the majority of people learn early in life is the most sexually attractive have more doors opened han the sexually unattractive.
It is illegal now in most countrys to call someone a bad race related name , but you can still laugh and taunt either subtly or directly someone with a big nose or big ears or big backside.
The shame of Britain is that the lookers the earners the noblers, have made so many in practice third class human beings by vitue of genes and status.
Never underestimate the power and injury of rejection.
Only through love and the consequent restoration of confidence can damaged souls face life and laugh at the tricks that the evil one puts before them.
To anyone who hides because of their looks, I say this "Facism is not an attribute of LOVE.
Face your face , accept it , find your true purpose.

Im a Brit too and this country has gone to hell, Ive been saying it for years and years.

I used to be proud to be from Great Britain, United Kingdom...I used to be proud when on business or holiday abroad and when people asked where I was from, I would tell them and they would nod in respect.

Now Im NOT proud one bit to say Im from Britain, its not Great anymore, and theres nothing United about it or any Kingdom to speak of. People dont nod in respect anymore either, its more a look of pity to be honest.

Whatever happened to the nation that were go-getters, ambitious and pushing the frontier in many industries, wheres it all gone, and WHY has it gone?

Its this damn government, Labour, which is the right name for them, they "Labour" you into the ground and you get JACK in return! The Labour government in the 70s wasnt any better, with 80% higher tax brackets.

Tax the rich tax the high earners they cry....thats ludicrous! Its the rich and highly skilled, highly paid that keep the country moving in a forward direction, making progress....if someones getting massivley taxed and getting nothing in return, you are going to get rather frustrated and not bother!

Example, if your wife was a "housewife" and was spending 50% of your income on crap, yet she didnt look after the kids, clean up, get the dinner on after you'd been out earning 12 hours a day 7 days a week, and on top of that didnt look after your male "needs" (and vise-verse for women with house husbands) youd get pretty sick of it in no time at all!

On top of that the guys in power have no balls at all!! How many times have we heard bold promises from both Blair and Brown that they are going to "take a stand and sort this mess out!". Only for some "authority" from Europe or the State to come over and these guys instantly crumble!! Everytime these guys are on TV, they look about as authoritive as a wet lettuce! Pathetic!

When Mrs.Thatcher said "IM GOING TO SORT THIS OUT!" it was 90% of the time, it might not of been a subtle approach, but it got sorted!

Then theres all the stupid laws and legislation that have been brought in that do nothing but hinder the innocent.

And dont even get me started on the lastest stupid idea around insurance and taxes on dogs!!

My daughter is pregnant and got initiated into a new scheme here in South Lanarkshire, Scotland. The project was set up to enable young mothers to re-train themselves from going on Facebook, Bebo, playing the Playstation, talking on mobiles and just generally being reclusive to getting out and about with their babies, teaching them nursery rhymes, getting the babies interested in books and just plain talking as the mothers have lost that ability themselves according to research. It is a sad day as it made me realise that the breakdown of family life is fully advanced now if agencies are now being set up to take the place of grannies, aunties, the family unit in fact.

Originally posted by fuserleer
When Mrs.Thatcher said "IM GOING TO SORT THIS OUT!" it was 90% of the time, it might not of been a subtle approach, but it got sorted!

Thatchers economic and social policies furthered elitist aims and are a major contribution to the state of the nation today.

The creation of the 'underclass', the 10%, the bottom-feeders, were, according to Thatcher and her socioeconomic gurus, necessary to increase the middle class majority, creation of white collar jobs to service the needs of the new underclass, those who are so eloquently referred to as 'scum'.

New Labour have just run with these policies but their agenda is as socialist as Old Labour. There is no point in blaming any one political party or government. All serve elitist agenda's that enslave the population. Political ideology is just an illusion that creates the illusion of choice. It does not matter what party you vote for, all you will ever get is a politician, who is most likely a lawyer who will serve the elitist agenda to enslave humanity.

Then theres all the stupid laws and legislation that have been brought in that do nothing but hinder the innocent.

Enslave through criminalisation of the general population.

Make no mistake, the UK is the 'pathfinder' for the globalists agenda to control the life and personal resources of every person on Earth.

As for new rules & regulations, how about this from today's Mail.




www.dailymail.co.uk...