HAARP Is Out Of Control, You be the judge!!!

Originally posted by murphyhurtme
or maybe not? either way you have to admit saying the government is causing earth quakes and tsunamis and hurricanes and whatnot sounds a little odd. i think a more likely culprit would be, i don't know the sun or something. maybe the moon? ocean?

[edit on 3/13/2010 by murphyhurtme]

No, it sounds odd to you. The government has poisoned its own people to study the effects.
en.wikipedia.org...

The government has ran tests on its own people in the name of Mind Control, in which President Bill Clinton gave a public apology for:
en.wikipedia.org...

The government has performed false flag scenarios to topple other governments:
en.wikipedia.org...

The government has empowered warlords and has involved itself with illegal arms trading in order to make profit:
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

The government has lied and tried to cover up gratuitous scandals
en.wikipedia.org...

The government lied to us about there being WMD in Iraq, forcing us into an illegal War
www.msnbc.msn.com...

I could go on and on, but, if you're willing to believe everything that the govt. tells you, and cannot accept that there is radical technology that is capable of mass destruction, then you are fooling yourself.

Nikola Tesla created an earthquake device long before HAARP even existed. And guess what??? It worked.
www.excludedmiddle.com...
www.angelfire.com...
www.freeinfosociety.com...

You might want to consider that, just because it seems far fetched in your imagination that such things would, or could not exist, doesn't mean that they don't.

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Yes. Whatever caused Cohen's statement was apparently untrue. If HAARP were causing quakes it should be easy to get a chart of when HAARP was one and when Earthquakes were occurring and line the two graphs up, problem is this would show all the quakes and storms before HAARP was even built and I assure you many of them were catastrophic. Even if there were a correlation it wouldn't prove HAARP caused the quakes/storms because cause and effect cannot and should not be derived from such a graph.

I am unfamiliar with Dr. Nick Begich but a quick google search brought me to a site called Earth Pulse. The front page mentions ESP and self-hypnosis as if they are commonplace. I would be interested to see this man debate the scientists who work at HAARP on a regular basis. Either way he is the odd man out among scientists. If he had overwelhming proof and submitted it to the scientific community they would have to accept it and discontinue the project... or are they all mad scientists at HAARP with no guilt as they do the government's grizzly bidding?

I haven't read a single book about HAARP but I have been to the HAARP website on numerous occasions and it explains what HAARP does. I imagine you'd suggest reading a whole bunch of conspiracy books filled with jargon and pseudoscientific speculation by people who are not experts or who claim to be experts without actually being so. I don't need to read any internet articles on it, but I have, I read one by Dan Eden on Viewzone which was touted as proof by the person who sent me the link. It was, of course, not proof of anything sinister going on at HAARP.

I come to these threads to defeat blind superstitious speculation based on the human mind's inability to acknowledge that bad things happen for no good reason. Earthquakes and storms are natural phenomenon that have been explained already and any tech to control them is only hypothetical at this point. HAARP, a harmless ionosphere research facility, has become the scapegoat for numerous baseless theories all tossed out as if absolute fact. I find it appalling that people will believe this stuff even when no real evidence is shown. But go ahead, go to Chile, Go to Haiti, find evidence that these quakes weren't ordinary Plate Tectonics quakes like EVERY OTHER QUAKE FOR THE LAST SEVERAL BILLION YEARS. Go find evidence, submit it to the scientific community and get the project shut down. Its not classified, surely if the public knew it was a horrific deathray they'd petition their congressmen...

I'm done. Go on believing what you want to believe and when the scientific evidence supports it so will I.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


It occurred to me why all these ignorant duck, weave,spin, click,click,click posters can't make any progress here denying that HAARP is a weapon. I think this may be why.
Just search "US denies HAARP as a weapon"

Here is what I got------ even I thought there would be some kind of BS, spin story.
But nope, Het, nada, bu mei bie zilch.

There was another a little further down the list titled EL HAARPO .
LOL


US GOVERNMENT "HAARP" caused earthquake in China? NOW IN ...
Weapon FROM WIKI: The objectives of the HAARP project became the subject of ... WAS TESTED IN EUROPE AND KNOWN TO PEOPLE US HAVENT DENIED ITS EXISTENCE THEY ...HAARP: Secret weapon for weather modification, electromagnetic ...

HAARP: Secret weapon for weather modification, electromagnetic warfare? January 21, 1:14 PM US Intelligence Examiner Fred Burks ...HAARP: Secret Weapon Used For Weather Modification ...

Though denied by HAARP officials, some respected researchers allege that secret electromagnetic warfare capabilities of HAARP are designed to forward the US ...

www.wanttoknow.info/war/haarp_weather_modification_el... - Similar

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


So are your thoughts--- that if Russia and China were accused of having these weapons you would defend them to the death also?

reply to post by Donny 4 million


So? That is not evidence of anything other than your gullibility and lack of critical thinking.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

 

I told you not to let your dog pull on that string attached to the HAARP transmitters.

Aaahhhh.......

So that's what happened.....

reply to post by Donny 4 million


The reason people cannot make any progress in swaying you from your stance is because your stance is one of blind faith arrogantly and ignorantly standing against simple logic and fact all the while claiming the facts are on your side and that your version of the truth is absolute. Sort of reminiscent of a religious zealot.

As I said numerous times in my posts, show irrefutable evidence of your extraordinary claims and the scientific community will have to come clean.

Edit to Add: There is no evidence that Russia or China have earthquake machines or weather control machines. There is some evidence that governments would want to control weather if they could but no evidence at all that they have made any breakthroughs. If multiple countries had this theoretical technology we'd see earthquakes and storms on a constant basis being used to easily cripple enemy nations far faster than a Nuclear attack. We would not expect to see isolated quakes in countries we have no reason to attack taking place along known faultlines.

[edit on 13-3-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

I personally am creeped the hell out by HAARP.

Who the hell really knows what that thing is capable of.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Well, I think you've said everything that I needed to hear. You admittedly haven't studied any information regarding HAARP and its capabilities (other than one website). Real researchers use several different sources for cross referencing purposes.

You're basing the idea that William Cohen was mistaken under the idea that if HAARP could cause earthquakes, that it would do it every time it was active, which is a huge fail as far as I'm concerned. Ever hear of amplification? For instance, if you want your radio louder, you turn up the volume. If its too much for your ears, then guess what...you turn it back down. This premise works the same way with HAARP. Which is...the more power you need, the more amplify it. I thought this would be something even a layperson could understand, but, I guess I was wrong. I was almost under the impression that I was speaking with someone of knowledge until I saw your last post. Do you REALLY think HAARP only comes equipped with one level? WOW!!!

And you're essentially trying to tell me that the information that you've studied on ONE website (HAARP's website) is the equivalent, IF NOT BETTER, than William Cohen receiving intelligence from the CIA which stated that other members of the international community are/were working with weather warfare by building HAARP like facilities...such as; Russia with their older and more powerful version of HAARP called Sura. How about Eiscat, or any of the other facilities around the world that are just like HAARP itself?

And I guess that you're also going to claim that this HAARP website tells, in scientific detail, everything that HAARP is capable of which is completely available to the general public. LOL. That's good stuff. My friend, there are researchers who have made HAARP their life's work and have come up with dramatically different results, and studies than what you have read on that site. I guess you could also say that the INVENTOR of HAARP was also misinformed of its capabilities. I guess he received faulty intelligence about what it could do as well. LOL. Ah...I could spend weeks laughing at that mentality. But, I suppose that your research of one website trumps that of people who have actually USED HAARP itself. Good one.

Now, lets address your scenario about its usage. Just because an earthquake or some form of disaster doesn't happen every time that HAARP is on does not mean that it is not capable of creating these disasters. Again, that's just like saying that every time an F22 goes out and doesn't kill thousands of people, that it isn't capable of being a weapon. As far as I'm concerned, your logic leaves a bit to be desired when it comes to debate.

And since you're not well enough versed on this topic, I will no longer respond to you until you can hold a conversation about this topic with reputable sources that go beyond what you've read on HAARP's very general website. Show me some initiative instead of regurgitating everything that other skeptics have said a million times to convince themselves that there is nothing awry. Because if its me that you're trying to convince, you're going to have to do a much better job than what you are doing now.

Try looking up some different information and cross referencing that with what you already know. That's what real researchers do. I'm seeing nothing but opinion and conjecture from you, and so far, you haven't even sourced the site that you've claimed that you've read. You need to come up with sources of people who have studied this, you need to have an understanding of electromagnetic radiation (which you do not) and you need organize and analyze this information with a bit more logic than the "simple logic" that you've presented. Hearing someone with no credentials or credibility to their name try to downgrade or discredit the former Secretary of Defense who was privy to more intelligence and war games than you have ever heard of is quite laughable. The last person who had an argument this poor, I actually had to put on ignore because it was a waste of my time and an insult to the thread. And, I want to say, I've only had to use the ignore button once since I've been on ATS.

I respect those who put in their time to research, even if their research is counter to mine, however, I haven't seen one iota of information from you that even warrants a response. At this point, I've merely been polite.

Thanks for your response. You won't get another one from me until I see some work put behind your opinions.



[edit on 13-3-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

reply to post by DARKCYDE_CROWLEY


---

For that matter, what it may have already been responsible for producing, eg ozone hole above and north east of Alaska.
They needed to test it !!!
The USA is a very-scary under a secretary Sec Gov. As our soon to be ousted through election PM says.. it's a matter of 'Proximity' (Bush2 press conference 2008)which concerns Canadians. Prime Minister Harper is quite out of touch.

Decoy

reply to post by DARKCYDE_CROWLEY


Why? Scientists know exactly what it can be used to perform, and they aren't scared. HAARP isn't doing anything the Sun doesn't do 24/7, on a fantastically larger scale.

The only reason to be scared of HAARP is ignorance.

reply to post by Decoy


There's no evidence at all to suggest it's capable of anything other than heating a tiny, tiny part of the Ionosphere directly above the facility. None.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

The reason people cannot make any progress in swaying you from your stance is because your stance is one of blind faith arrogantly and ignorantly standing against simple logic and fact all the while claiming the facts are on your side and that your version of the truth is absolute. Sort of reminiscent of a religious zealot.

As I said numerous times in my posts, show irrefutable evidence of your extraordinary claims and the scientific community will have to come clean.

Edit to Add: There is no evidence that Russia or China have earthquake machines or weather control machines. There is some evidence that governments would want to control weather if they could but no evidence at all that they have made any breakthroughs. If multiple countries had this theoretical technology we'd see earthquakes and storms on a constant basis being used to easily cripple enemy nations far faster than a Nuclear attack. We would not expect to see isolated quakes in countries we have no reason to attack taking place along known faultlines.

[edit on 13-3-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

Actually, you are the one demonstrating blind faith. If Donnie had been demonstrating blind faith, he would have never have done his own research to find counter information about what HAARP is and would be arguing on your side right now. You have done absolutely no research on this topic, other than the HAARP site, and you admitted it. That's your first fail. So far your arguments are probably the worst I have ever heard on this topic, and I've heard a quite a few. At least guys like Phage, Photon Effect, and others attempt to research information. You are the exact opposite, and as far as I'm concerned, you're hurting their cause more than helping. If I were them, I'd be begging for you to quit.

And, Its fine when people disagree with me, I am usually very tolerant of the opinions of others, but, you have demonstrated the worst debate skills that I have witnessed besides one other person on ATS. As I said in my last retort to you, I actually had to put them on ignore, which, if this continues in this direction, will happen to you as well.

Until you have done your research, you are completely without merit. And since you have admitted to not doing any research, you might as well quit while you're behind. And this is the guy that claims to know more than the former Secretary of Defense. WOW.

[edit on 13-3-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

reply to post by davesidious


---

My scope of research is seemingly less than yours when it comes to HAARP. But I recall a supposed story written by an American that was horrendous while he visited and viewed some severe Inuit cabal new born and in some cases developed but growing digital deformities amongst them.

In anycase, HARRP's the real deal and I would not be in a position to speculate it's power to be a trickle.

Decoy

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by DARKCYDE_CROWLEY

 

Why? Scientists know exactly what it can be used to perform, and they aren't scared. HAARP isn't doing anything the Sun doesn't do 24/7, on a fantastically larger scale.

The only reason to be scared of HAARP is ignorance.

reply to post by Decoy

 

There's no evidence at all to suggest it's capable of anything other than heating a tiny, tiny part of the Ionosphere directly above the facility. None.

G'day davesidious

You have summed that up very accurately & succinctly

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


---

How so? 'Succinctly and accurately' needs a wee-bit more data to support the repetition, I feel.

Decoy

Originally posted by Decoy
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

 

How so? 'Succinctly and accurately' needs a wee-bit more data to support the repetition, I feel.
Decoy

G'day Decoy

That's fair enough.....

However the hysteria & paranoia on ATS about HAARP has reached a ridiculous level.

Trying to cut through all that "noise" to engage in rational discussion with the "HAARP will kill us all believers" is worse than trying to have a rational discussion with the "reptilian shapeshifter believers".

I think his e-mail summed the facts up very neatly.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


---

How so? Just seems bouncing around a question is just that -- bouncing around.

Decoy

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


Thanks for your support

reply to post by Decoy


I've yet to see any evidence from HAARP-haters demonstrating it is capable of anything they claim. None. There is nothing to rebut yet. I'm waiting for that evidence, and I have been waiting for years. None has come to light yet.

But that doesn't stop the haters hatin'. They don't seem to need evidence, they seem to somehow know that the scary scientists working with the scary antenna that can scarily affect a part of the scary ionosphere, and a bunch of other scary words, must be lying!!! Wooooo scary!!!!

Nice work, Don Quixote. Keep on tiltin'.

[edit on 13-3-2010 by davesidious]

Originally posted by Decoy
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

 

How so? Just seems bouncing around a question is just that -- bouncing around.
Decoy

G'day Decoy

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by highlyoriginal

 

There can be no evidence, as the equipment at HAARP, and its abilities, are well understood by scientists the world over.

Replace "HAARP" with "a cheese sandwich", and you'll see how silly all these claims sound, as both are just as capable as each other of causing earthquakes and influencing other natural disasters.

WHAT?

Cheese Sangers are doing WHAT?

careful what you say man, there is a fool for every thought out there.

really..

Oo