HAARP Is Out Of Control, You be the judge!!!

Originally posted by Donny 4 million


So what---- I quoted the part that starts with "Others." I lernt dat in gamma school.

You always omit the part where he mentions that he is recounting fiction from Alvin Toeffler. I just provided the relevant part of the quote that you always seem to leave out.

Others as in separate and apart from your historian. WTF has he got to do with HAARP.

You totally failed to understand my post. I said Toeffler is a futurologist NOT A HISTORIAN, and that this is a relevant fact to understand the quote.

WTF this has to do with HAARP is anyones guess as you are the one claiming that Cohen's speech has something to do with HAARP. I contend that it has nothing to do with HAARP since Cohen is only recounting the then recent fictional work of FUTUROLOGIST Alvin Toeffler. ( BTW, the job of Futurologist is basically making things up like future weapons. Try wrapping that around your brain or actually google the work of Toeffler once and you'll be able to get the context of the quote.

If you really think you are protecting or helping anybody or anything with this behavior your wrong.
errrr unless you are made to do it by some great big threatening force that you fear. humm

Why these constant ad-hominems? And why are they always so paranoid?

edit:

Yeah and HAARP is a weapon. It is plastered all over the web can I find you some sites?

So anything that is plastered on the web is necessarily true? Is that all it takes to make something true?
So if I make a site that claims that HAARP is actually a defense mechanism against a Russian-HAARP-like-facility that is then true, too? Maybe I should do that then.

I can not suscribe to a worldview were "it's on the internet" is the sole qualification of something being true or not.


[edit on 13-3-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

[edit on 13-3-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

[edit on 13-3-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


Because trying to learn you something is freaking me out.
You are like a scratched old vynle record disc that makes the needle jump back to the same place constantly.
I try to push the needle in a positive on topic direction and some how your junkie words just keep falling into more scratches and grooves.
Any way there are others that might need my help understanding RADIO.
So I am signing you off now Nich,nich,nich,nich,nich

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

You

Cohen is human and is just as fallible as the rest of us , he may not have known it wasn't true when he said it. Even if he did believe it to be true it has been proven false many times over since HAARP has been used many times over without adverse effect.

Me
Again, you're making statements that you have no way of backing up. You're going to actually sit there and say that the intelligence that William Cohen received was faulty. Well, lets see the proof. And the fact that HAARP has been used without adverse affect says nothing. With that kind of logic we can deduct this...every time a stealth bomber flies without killing multiple numbers of people, we could say, "AH...you see, its not capable of bombing anyone, because look, it flew and no one died." It was operated multiple times without chaos and murder, therefore, the engineers of the craft were wrong in their assessments."

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

You...
I never said it takes thousands to operate it merely that at one time or another thousands of scientists have worked on, worked at or researched HAARP. We're talking people with families and a great deal of expertise (far more than any of us here on ATS). University Scientists and their students have worked their too.

ME:
Interesting, now you want to bring up experienced research about HAARP when you think it benefits your argument. Well, I would have to say that THE DESIGNER OF HAARP claims that it can change the weather, be used for communications, and act as a military defense system. This is the designer, not some researcher who uses the facility to understand the ionosphere. By the way, Those are the same things that Nick Begich (A PHD) claims that it can do as well. Tell me, how do you feel about that???

YOU:
After reading about what HAARP is and what its real capabilities are I find it a bit silly to keep having to come into these threads and see people blaming HAARP on all sorts of nonsense for which there is no evidence. It is illogical to believe that the minor heating of the ionosphere that HAARP is involved in is actually part of a sinister weather altering earthquake causing plot the government has cooked up. Its beyond farfetched and is illogical and without evidence to back it up.

ME:
What books have you read about HAARP? Also, what sources were you reading? What online papers have you read about HAARP's capabilities? And if you don't mind, I would love to quiz you on a U2U, or speak with you on the phone about what it can, or cannot do. If you don't mind, I would love to record the call, so that after the call is over, I can post it to ATS to show others how much you know, and how much you don't know. Also, no one has forced you into these threads...you chose this thread on your own free will, and have made multiple posts. I would believe your statement if you had merely posted one opinion and left, but, since its apparent that you love the adversity, I cannot at all believe that you are "so tired of coming into these threads."

YOU:
It is one thing to say the government might want to build an earthquake machine or control the weather but another entirely to claim that an unclassified ionosphere research facility in Alaska is said machine without offering any evidence. The claim is further weakened by how many other theories HAARP has been blamed for...

If the government had technology to create storms and quakes they wouldn't bother revealing it to the public, it wouldn't have much to do with the ionosphere and it wouldn't be used against Haiti and Chile or New Orleans.

ME:

If the government had technology to create storms and quakes they wouldn't bother revealing it to the public.

Well, that's the first thing that you said that actually makes sense. That's the reason why HAARP is called an ionospheric "RESEARCH" facility and Not an "atmosphere boiling, microwaving weapon from hades." So that people who regularly refuse to look outside of the box, stay right where they are at without any further questioning. The best place to hide anything is often in..."Plain sight."

Example: You know...when Adolf Hitler was sending millions of Jews to their deaths in concentration camps, he sent them under the impression that they were merely being transferred for their own "safety," and that they would be put to work in the mean time in..."Work camps." He didn't tell them that they were DEATH PRISONS or concentration camps. Otherwise, they may not have been so trusting or willing to walk hundreds of miles to their impending dooms while starving to death.

I realize that none of this will change your mind, but, unless you can provide something more than, "Simple logic..." then you can bet that nothing that you have provided will change mine.







[edit on 13-3-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Alright how about this, can we get some sort of scientific data showing that the chemicals in the atmosphere at the time of these disasters differed from that of a normal disaster. I mean this is probably the holy grail of what your looking for but lets be honest without concrete information this theory is just alot of hot air, coupled with some smoke and mirrors.

Also how would HaRRP which is a radar system affect earthquakes? Thats another interesting question.


[edit on 13-3-2010 by NoJoker13]

reply to post by Donny 4 million


Please, for the love of ATS, stop posting that Cohen nonsense. He was clearly talking about governments around the world claiming to be researching the possibility of such weapons. It's down-right dishonest of you to keep posting such obvious rubbish. It seems your arguments are so haggard and frail that you need to prop them up with already-destroyed information.

It's a joke. Your argument is a joke.

reply to post by ziggystar60




This looks like a HAARP formation over Greece. It looks like they are trying to show Jesus on the cross...we are going to see the Last Temptation of Christ on widescreen??? Wonder if they have any holos of Mel Gibson?

reply to post by mandob453


who follows the geneva convention then THE allies ,water boarding ,torture,rendition, as though anyone on ats knows whats going on in black projects or for that matter most goverment stuff .just my opinion .
They carnt tell people everything or write exactly what they do, did you not listen to the numerous vids on harrp all over youtube even when athey interview scientist spokes persons for the facility ,they say,er,hum carnt talk about that its more than my jobs worth .people we need to suspect everything these days.look at history.isnt ats for the way out there stuff so why are people jumping on with quotes,paragraphs from msm ,pdf docs from labs.they aint going to do a pdf on we destryed a city,
But i aint saying harrp destroyed anything ,i am just saying topsecret is that top secret. i dont believe anyone who comes on ats and says hes got knowledge of stuff and is realtop level insider .well above say the police/cid guys. maybe we have lots of uni students and the odd scientist from a field that he worked in but i do not think they will tell anything worth while,ats for me saves me buying a good fiction book, alot of ats threads seams probable but time will tell thats why i dont understand the debunkers why come here skyfloating does the best threads for me.

[edit on 3/13/2010 by dashar]

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

 

Alright how about this, can we get some sort of scientific data showing that the chemicals in the atmosphere at the time of these disasters differed from that of a normal disaster. I mean this is probably the holy grail of what your looking for but lets be honest without concrete information this theory is just alot of hot air, coupled with some smoke and mirrors.

Also how would HaRRP which is a radar system affect earthquakes? Thats anothwer interesting question.


[edit on 13-3-2010 by NoJoker13]

Chemtrails??? I don't ever remember talking much on this thread, or any other for that matter about chemtrails.

But hey...just for the fun of it. Here's your holy grail.

Just go ahead and scroll down, and read the entire page. Thanks for helping me prove my point. Oh, and you might want to read the whole site.
weatherwars.info...
weatherwars.info...

What was that about hot air again???

Well, how would HAARP cause earthquakes?
How much do you know about ELF RF frequencies??? Are you aware of how tectonic plates work? Tell you what, rather than give you a lesson like I've done to so many others, I will provide video evidence. Then you can look, and watch this info and let it do the work for me.

If you don't watch these videos, then you are cheating yourself out of any additional information that might be useful in your quest to either prove me right or wrong.

www.youtube.com... (its up to you to find the other parts of this series)
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...



[edit on 13-3-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

[edit on 13-3-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


Those are contrails. Jesus Christ what's so hard to understand about that???

reply to post by davesidious


if they are contrails why was they not about in 70s early 80s when i watched planes ,if they arnt chemtrails something has changed,maybe its the weather or engine design.but whos to stop gov refineries sending out fuel laced with engine protecting soft metals like aluminium which adds to life of parts.they used to use lead for this,just a thought.
i mean dont fuel inspectors have to schedule in advance for doing checks,due to costs of airline delays also they have to be gov approved.i dont know

[edit on 3/13/2010 by dashar]

reply to post by dashar


Because, as you say, engines are different, and there are also far more flights, flying from far more airports. Also, a phenomenon needs a damn sight more evidence than people simply not remembering seeing so many contrails before. That is a joke to think that constitutes any form of evidence.

What's to stop fuel from being laced with metals? Well, it'll cost more, weigh more, burn less clean & efficiently, and gum up the fuel systems on planes. Planes are built hardy enough to not need additives such as that. Also, jet fuel is made, world-wide, to certain specifications. Jet A, Jet A-1, and Jet B.

There is no evidence for chemtrails. None. It is an argument born from ignorance and selection bias.

reply to post by Phage


Phage: Thank you for the clarity, I was trying to give people a general idea of what HAARP can do. But electromagetic waves can move objects in the same "manner" as mechanical waves-am I right?

[edit on 13-3-2010 by samlf3rd]

I am under a different impression.

I think you mean you are delusional. The scientific data on haarp is for the most part out there if you actually take the time and do the research. I mean current and archived.


Nothing worse then people spouting off idiocy when they don't do basic research.


Patents and opinion are not facts.

Scott Stevens, former weatherman/meteorologist. He has more info than all of us put together. Of course, someone will attempt to discredit this man after a long and strong career as a meteorologist. Because, of course, there are so many credible posters here on ATS who have done so much with their lives other than sit and ridicule people who have enhanced the world with their knowledge.

www.usatoday.com...
weatherwars.info...
www.youtube.com...

Nick Begich:
www.youtube.com...

Other videos:
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com... (using technology to reset the climates ourselves...Obama Administration) Russians the first to propose this idea and present it to the U.N.
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com... (HAARP Weather Weapon)
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com... (watch this one, Crispy burnt dolphins after a weird cyclone on the water in the Persian Gulf. Microwaves)


Here are some interesting bills passed by Congress and the Senate:

US and Canada agreement

In 1975, the US and Canada entered into an agreement under the auspices of the United Nations for the exchange of information on weather modification activity.[17]
[edit] 1977 UN Environmental Modification Convention
Main article: Environmental Modification Convention

Weather control, particularly hostile weather warfare, was addressed by the "United Nations General Assembly Resolution 31/72, TIAS 9614 Convention[18] on the Prohibition of Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques" was adopted. The Convention was: Signed in Geneva May 18, 1977; Entered into force October 5, 1978; Ratification by U.S. President December 13, 1979; U.S. ratification deposited at New York January 17, 1980.[19]
[edit] US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

In the US, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration regulates weather control projects, under authority of Public Law 205 of the 92nd Congress.
[edit] US Legislation

The Space Preservation Act was proposed "to preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons."[20]

2005 U.S. Senate Bill 517 and U.S. House Bill 2995 U.S. Senate Bill 517[21] and U.S. House Bill 2995[22] were two bills proposed in 2005 that would have expanded experimental weather modification, to establish a Weather Modification Operations and Research Board, and implemented a national weather modification policy. Neither were made into law.

2007 U.S. Senate Bill 1807 & U.S. House Bill 3445 Senate Bill 1807 and House Bill 3445, identical bills introduced July 17, 2007, proposed to establish a Weather Mitigation Advisory and Research Board to fund weather modification research [23][24]

Source:
en.wikipedia.org...

Weather Futures and derivatives: (People who actually bet on the weather. Hmmm, I wonder why this would have any merit?) And what if they can ensure that they win that bet every time?
en.wikipedia.org...
daytrading.about.com...
www.cmegroup.com...
www.marketwatch.com...
www.cnn.com...

And, I always hear this question...Why would anyone want to use the weather as a weapon?

Well, if the above links don't explain that, then I will. First and foremost. What if you could destroy and area, and control the population at the same time without having to declare war? Lets look at this logically.

1. You don't have to worry about whether your citizens will throw a fit by sending their children overseas and putting them at risk.
2. You can boost your economy by getting all of the contracts to rebuild the area that was affected.
3. You improve your standing in the world by showing that you are there to help.
4. You don't put any of your troops at risk
5. If you're smart enough from the onset, you can capitalize by betting on the outcome of the weather. (Not only would the stock market benefit, but, so would those who were smart enough to invest after receiving the information)
6. Did I mention that American companies and contractors would profit off of "REBUILDING?" Oh yeah, that was point number 2.
7. Population control is put into effect.

So, you get all of the benefits of going to war, without the actual hassle of engaging in one. You'd be surprised what people will do in the name of profit. How many times have you heard of a family member killing another family member for insurance money?

Its about the same reasons why 911 could be viewed as a false flag. People always want to know, WHY WOULD THE GOVERNMENT DO THAT TO ITS OWN PEOPLE?

PROFIT!!! (OFF TOPIC, BUT IT ADDRESSES MANY OF THE SAME REASONS WHY THE GOVERNMENT WOULD USE HAARP AS A WEAPON, RATHER THAN JUST A RESEARCH FACILITY)

1. Who got all of the building contracts in 911? Halliburton, Carlisle Group
2. Who got nearly unlimited funding for the defense of the country? Halliburton, Carlisle Group, etc.
3. Who got to secure the oil fields in Iraq? American Military, Halliburton
4. Who received outside govt. contracts to operate with impunity in Iraq? Blackwater, Halliburton
5. What about all of the information that talks about the insider trading that was occurring before and after the fall of the towers?

Well, anytime we go to another country and rebuild whether it be for war or natural disaster, guess who profits in the name of Imperialism??? Yep, you guessed it. US. But, US isn't the people of the U.S.A., its always the corporations and the politicians who are associated with the situation in the first place.

So, whether or not you believe HAARP is capable of any of this, it would serve you well to do research in both the mainstream media, scholarly sources, and conspiracy theories. It is important to be well versed in all of it, otherwise you're only getting a one sided version of the tale.

And again, I want to stress that the inventor of HAARP is also one of its harshest critics because of what the U.S.A. has used it for, and what it may continue using it for. When the inventor comes out and claims that there is a problem, maybe some of us should be listening.

Hi all,

Why do you think they built one (public), the other Black, in Alaska, amongst others in other States?, 'cause the U.S. Gov liked the aurora Borealis? -- Wrong.

But having said that, I do believe the U.S. gov had protection in mind, pre-emptive or no.

Decoy

i am a person who is very much against our government. that being said, blaming natural disasters on the us government is pretty crazy. for a site full of cracked out theories the haarp ones take the cake.

Originally posted by samlf3rd
reply to post by Phage

 

Phage: Thank you for the clarity, I was trying to give people a general idea of what HAARP can do. But electromagetic waves can move objects in the same "manner" as mechanical waves-am I right?

[edit on 13-3-2010 by samlf3rd]

Yes, you are correct. However, I doubt that you will get this type of honest response from Phage especially concerning EM radiation. He is well aware of what HAARP is capable of, however, he chooses to play damage control for the MSM.

As an example of the sheer power of EM radiation, I would like you to look at this.
refreshingnews9.blogspot.com...

This story was actually discussed here on ATS. The EM fields produced by the gravitomagnetic field of these magnets were no less than one hundred million trillion times Einstein's initial belief. What we used to think of as a "weak force" induced by the gravitomagnetic field, was the exact opposite. This pretty much informs us of how little we actually know about the strength of electromagnetic fields and the effects of high powered RF frequencies. And since we are messing with the power of the sun every time we screw with the ionosphere, we're literally playing Russian Roulette with the effects and their side-effects on our planet. Keep in mind that long and shortwave radiation are influenced by the gravitational pull of the earth, and that the ionosphere is in charge of earth's weather patterns and fluctuations.

Trust me when I say that Phage will either downplay the strength of HAARP or other such devices, or that he simply is not aware of the ramifications that can occur by consistently probing the ionosphere with powerful and amplified RF, HF, ELF frequencies.

[edit on 13-3-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

Originally posted by murphyhurtme
i am a person who is very much against our government. that being said, blaming natural disasters on the us government is pretty crazy. for a site full of cracked out theories the haarp ones take the cake.

Your opinion is as valid as everyone else's. However, what research have you done that has brought you to your conclusion? Because a blanket statement of opinion really doesn't suffice here.

Show me why you think that this is a cracked out notion that RF frequencies could enhance or not enhance the weather. Maybe you should study the ionosphere and see how weather is created in the first place, and then maybe it won't seem like such a stretch to believe otherwise.

or maybe not? either way you have to admit saying the government is causing earth quakes and tsunamis and hurricanes and whatnot sounds a little odd. i think a more likely culprit would be, i don't know the sun or something. maybe the moon? ocean?

[edit on 3/13/2010 by murphyhurtme]

Originally posted by Decoy
Hi all,

Why do you think they built one (public), the other Black, in Alaska, amongst others in other States?, 'cause the U.S. Gov liked the aurora Borealis? -- Wrong.

But having said that, I do believe the U.S. gov had protection in mind, pre-emptive or no.

Decoy

At one point, the US govt. did have protection in mind when they created it. This is an offshoot of the S.D.I initiative. The inventor of HAARP made this for three reasons.
1. weather modification
2. communications with submarines
3. missile defense

Here's a show you might want to watch. Although I don't much get into shows like this, it demonstrates the capabilities of HAARP, and the designer of HAARP's son speaks quite candidly on why his father stepped away from the project.
www.youtube.com...