911 Debunkers Take Beating on ATS.

This is my first post to ATS, I've been a lurker for many years. The reason I never posted was because I noticed a steady increase of name calling and ridiculous logic being put out by the disinfo agents that come here to try to convince people that everything was just as our government told us it was. I figured I would be drawn into arguments by the debunkers and didn't have time to waste by them. But now I have a new mindset. Instead of not posting to ATS and letting the disinfo agents win at not letting me save souls from evil, I have decided to post whenever I have something to add and try to make friends on ATS of like minded people to see what can be done to pool our efforts. I won't ever respond to a debunker because if this site was mine, I would just kick all the doubters out. Nothing is being served by arguing unless that is the purpose. I feel this site would be more effective at organizing if you quit the arguing and got rid of the skeptics and just starting being more active in teaching others what is going on. This is what I did when I created my site and feel ATS should also. You have to take a stand against evil and not just say well, let's talk about it and let the disinfo agents win. Are we here to become professional debaters or are we here to save the planet form the new world order and get all their free energy technology released to make a paradise on earth.


It used to made me sick to see many of these "debunkers" come on here and say that chemtrails aren't real or that 911 happened exactly like the fairy tale we were told on tv. The government has already admitted they pay thousands of bloggers to put out the company line. No telling how big that paid blogger program really is, but anybody with two brain cells tor rub together knows they are all over ATS. They are paid to spew their insanity and get you arguing with them so that YOU aren't effective in telling thousands about the scams of the new world order.

I viewed getting drawn into fighting as a huge waste of my time. With a masters in mechanical engineering I know that jet fuel can't melt steel no matter what the TV says and we have tons of it at ground zero even a month after collapse. Anybody can go look it up. So right there, I know the official story is not true in any way as far as the collapse goes. No disinfo agents, or phony NIST reports are going to change basic chemistry. I will never respond or get in any argument with a debunker because that is their goal. They are paid to divide and conquer and waste your time so you don't tell others about the new world order! So instead I now go out on facebook every day and go find new people to expose the truth to. If everybody exposes the lies of the new world order through this site and others like facebook then the new world order can't win and that's why the debunkers come here and try to engage you in their childish arguments. If you aren't exposing the frauds of the new world order to new people daily then you are doing what the new world order wants and you're not helping to dissolve their matrix of lies. Do what you can every day. Want to HURT a disinfo agent, go make 20 new facebook friends EVERY day and teach them!

And one last note to all those paid disinfo agents out there. You are working for an evil force that wants total dominance of this planet with their world government. They are paying you and you might think you are fun and cute and part of the system, but you are selling out humanity and will be responsible for all their actions When you serve evil or don't rebuke evil even, then you are allowing it to happen and are responsible for the millions of lives lost by this system. You might not believe in God, but you will still have to answer for these crimes either in this life or when yours is over. We welcome all disinfo agents to rebel against your satanic masters and join the army of light exposing the true evil of the new world order! peace

I think intrepid is merely suggesting that "the PTB" have been carefully organizing this exact thread for years now by implanting memories in ATS users' heads during REM sleep, bugging cell phones, utilizing trojans and tracking cookies and using HAARP to beam out harmful radio signals intended to melt both 9/11 truther and "debunker" brain matter. A perfectly reasonable position, to say the least.

reply to post by Stewie


Quite simple. The way to stall any issue is to politicize it and divide people into camps fighting amongst themselves so that any REAL facts are obscured or missed because no one is listening to the other.

Works really well. Look at the issues. Abortion, global warming, etc. Polarized. Pit one against the other.................. issue is stalled or fails all together. This MO is clearly apparent.

Originally posted by intrepid
The point is VERY well made. Anyone looking at this without bias will see the point clearly.

You interjected nothing but emotion and took an inactive members post as quibbling? The fact I dropped in to express my disbelief that ATS still hosts "truthers" that bark the exact same theories they have been since late 2001 without any proof is embarrassing.

"Holier that thou"? Again, my point made.

If your point is what a joke this forum has become thanks to threads like these, I'd have to agree.

...this forum is an embarrassment to the board.

We agree?

Grow up children.

You're an excellent moderator.

The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

Originally posted by agentofchaos
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

So, we all take your word then that's it? Although, you can't name one thing that you investigated? Everything regarding 9/11 is fake and nothing more? I'm going to need more then your word; this is by far the wildest comment I've read on ATS , if you really ran down every lead involved with 9/11; why would you not post those findings for us to look at? or even why not keep them around on your computer so everytime one of these threads sprouts up you can easily dismiss it with your vast amount of information? How much did all that cost to fly around and talk with all the different people and what exactly is your degree from college to give what your saying some credit?

[edit on 7-3-2010 by agentofchaos]

I will give you a few off the top of my head, in no particular order, and this wont be exhaustive because it's tedious :-

Marvin Bush was in charge of security at the WTC on or shortly before 9/11.

Sniffer dogs were withdrawn shortly before 9/11.

Jews were warned not to attend WTC on 9/11.

No planes hit the towers.

Military planes hit the towers.

Remote-controlled planes hit the towers.

Planes with pods hit the towers.

Planes fired missiles just before hitting the towers.

Beam weapons destroyed the towers.

Molten steel was found at ground zero weeks after 9/11.

Missile hit the Pentagon.

No plane wreckage at the Pentagon.

2.3 trillion dollars missing from the Pentagon.

No witness saw a plane actually hit the Pentagon.

Witnesses saw a plane flyover the Pentagon.

Phone calls from UA 93 passengers to family faked.

Faked crash site of UA 93 at Shanksville.

UA 93 actually landed at Cleveland.

Larry Silverstein ordered destruction of WTC 7.

BBC announced collapse of WTC 7 prematurely ( in the sense of being sinister )

I am bored with this now but you get my drift.

Originally posted by projectnsearch
I won't ever respond to a debunker because if this site was mine, I would just kick all the doubters out.

Typical "truther", is not interested in debate, they have made their mind up and hate the idea that someone may point out how silly their claim is so they want anybody that does not agree with them banned.

The problem with that thinking is the "truthers" cannot even agree on what happened - even today "truthers" are claiming:

the aircraft that hit the WTC were carrying pods,
that beam weapons were used against the WTC,
that a 757 did not hit the Pentagon

whilst other "truthers" are saying people stating those things are just disinfo agents!

I feel this site would be more effective at organizing if you quit the arguing and got rid of the skeptics and just starting being more active in teaching others what is going on.

Once again you only want your story to be posted here, anybody that does not agree with you should be banned, you are so scared that your posts may be found out to be just lies you want those people banned!

Are we here to become professional debaters

Except you are not interested in debate, you are scared your lies may be found out!

form the new world order and get all their free energy technology released to make a paradise on earth.

What "free energy technology" would that be exactly?

It used to made me sick to see many of these "debunkers" come on here and say that chemtrails aren't real

Oh dear, is there any silly conspiracy theory you do not believe in?

With a masters in mechanical engineering I know that jet fuel can't melt steel no matter what the TV says

Funny how the OS never stated steel was melted, this is typical of a conspiracy theorist, they tell lies and make things up!

We welcome all disinfo agents to rebel against your satanic masters and join the army of light exposing the true evil of the new world order! peace

Paranoid as well I see!

I think they shoot themselves in the foot with there ridiculous stories about how this Murderer took place! the members who are honest people have been exposing there lies for some time now, an that is a good thing because there are lot of people out there who visit this site an learn a lot of stuff they otherwise might not of taken notice of! Iknow iv been there an done it!

reply to post by projectnsearch


You sound sincere in your post, but there are so many places the debunkers will attack 9/11 truth that by throwing this out there you do not help the movement to demand a new investigation:

Are we here to become professional debaters or are we here to save the planet form the new world order and get all their free energy technology released to make a paradise on earth. ....
It used to made me sick to see many of these "debunkers" come on here and say that chemtrails aren't real or that 911 happened exactly like the fairy tale we were told on tv.

I suggest you stick to 9/11 truth if that is your passion, or bring up other possible conspiracies on the other appropriate forums.

edit to add: see what I mean

If I was a real professional anti-truther, I would create a "useful idiot" login, post a bunch of B.S along with a little seemingly sincere rhetoric, then beat the U.I. over the head with his own B.S. and claim all 9/11 truth are just like the U.I.


[edit on 7-3-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

Quite an accomplishment to turn 200 tonnes of steel into dust in 11 seconds, but yeah I heard the laws of physics were on strike that day, apparently steel also explodes as it is falling down (but only on 9/11). Gotta love the stupidity of debunkers.

This is what happens in the real world:




Won't even bother with the rest of the impossibilities that day, debunkers have about the same IQ as chimp.

The evidence everyone is looking for won't ever be found. Who ever finds the evidence first and pushes it usually wins. The 9/11 site has been stepped on and tampered with.

Frankly, OS believers shouldn't be looking for evidence but instead, look for logic. Why was the government in such a rush to get the steel away from the 9/11 site? Usually, the steel is preserved to see how the structure held up against the impact and fire. Tests and investigation should have been thorough to ensure the incident won't happen again in the future. Rather than doing that they hauled off most of it by September 29th to India and China.

If you place yourself in the shoes of the passengers on board, your logic should dictate something. Hi-jackers with box-cutter knives took over...yeah right. I wouldn't mind losing a finger to save myself and everyone around me. There were approximately 4-5 hi-jackers per plane. There was
19 hi-jackers all together....and 92 passengers per plane. 40 of those people couldn't over-power the 4-5 arabs?! Seriously?! Come on, we have all been to the airport and know how stressed and angry people get. They couldn't over-power 4-5 arabs?!!!

Another thing that I don't get is, instead of bringing in a specialist to investigate and head the 9/11 commission Thomas Keane was appointed as the chairman.

While leading Drew University, Kean also continued to expand his role as a national political leader, forging close working relationships with the administrations of George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton (with whom he had worked closely in the National Governors Association) and George W. Bush, who saw Kean as an important national political ally.

The US government may not have been in on the 9/11 event but Bush Sr. had something to do with it.

Again use logic. NWO speech September 11, 1991, 10 years later same day....Catastrophe struck America while his son was president. His son hired Bush Sr.'s friend to carry out the investigation.

If you think that these Arabs masterminded everything on their own you aren't using logic.



[edit on 7-3-2010 by Equinox99]

reply to post by dereks


Sorry off topic but this has to be set straight.

Free energy? Well not really, but you should really see this video. You will understand a whole lot of what power big corporations hold.

Who killed the electric car?

Watch before you dismiss.

reply to post by trueforger


Don't waste your time on people like this, proof is, guys with box cutters flying around and hiting7 5% of thie targets against the most sophisticated millitary in the world. trust me the US knows if a terrorist is taking a # in the desert, and they knew about 911 as well.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


If when you say debunkers take a beating on ATS do you mean that truthers won't even debate. They just go on some rant with no facts to back it up and assume they are right about the events of 911.

I wouldn't call that so much a beating as just wasting your time by talking to a wall. There will never be anything that will prove to a truther that 911 was actually accomplished by a bunch of Islamic terrorists.

I have debated the topic on here and asked simple questions that never get much of an answer beyond that I am just some stupid sheep. Great debate there.

Truth is that truthers take a beating everyday, because they cannot back up their claims. How can you say you know the truth when you guys cannot even agree on what happened on 911. Truth is irrefutable. Truth is not just a bunch of wild ass guesses at what may have happened.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Frankly, I never claimed to be a debunker of anything. But by your own words it seems that to you, a debunker is simply someone who doesn't set of an emotional response in you. To the OP it seems, anyone with an opposing viewpoint sets off an emotional response.

Every one of your posts that I reads, reads out like classic Freudian projection. You take what you are thinking and feeling yourself and project it onto the person/people who made you feel that way, as if it isn't really your problem but someone else's.


Let me run down fallacies from you "debunker" lot I have seen in just the past week.


You, on the "Debunk this 9/11 conspiracy fact and I quit ATS" thread, demonstrated in a post on page 1 that the statement that NIST's WTC7 hypothesis defied the law of conservation of energy went way over your head and you somehow mis-interpreted it as meaning we actually believed laws of physics were violated that day, and then you went on a rant across multiple posts trying to criticize this straw-man position of violations of physics that was obviously rhetorical and was not even being argued in the first place. And then a couple pages later you simply claimed we were all too stupid to understand complex events.


"thedman" is repeatedly posting that the towers were only designed to withstand impacts from a 707 at 200 mph even though John Skilling's structural engineering firm, separately from Les Robertson's, claimed in the 60s that his firm investigated an impact from a 707 at 600 mph and the towers would still be stable after impact. I have brought this to attention before -- sources and all -- and he STILL posts that the buildings were only designed for 200 mph impacts! This kind of stuff should be against board rules, plain and simple. It is a documented fact that Skilling's firm released this information to the general public in the 60s. It's in books, it's online, it's documented. He has no response to his blatantly ignoring what I post about this, either.


I have been asking "pteridine" and "dereks" to provide the positive evidence for the government story, hundreds of times, and I have yet to receive a single straight answer from them, or any other "debunker" on this question. They simply respond every single time with another question that diverts away from them having to prove their own opinions, appeal to some logical fallacy that they don't have to prove anything or just give me some kind of sarcasm. They have no coherent understanding of all the various aspects of 9/11 themselves, they have only picked up from JREF or "debunking911.com" what the rote mantra is for responding to any given "truther" claim, and often it's nothing but a sour attitude and "I don't have to prove anything," or "I have this excuse for this phenomenon, and even though I can't prove it I'll pretend it's a fact anyway," or "make your own theory instead please so I can attack it instead."


And now the rash of Judy Woods posts where I can't even get simple questions regarding basic physics answered. And I have had physics and engineering classes, and I would like these questions answered, but no one seems competent enough to even try them on those threads.


All in all I have to agree with the OP, and on top of that I'd like to ask, if there are any of you reading this who can do a better job "debunking" us, please, please, please, start posting so the people arguing with us now can retire. It's one thing to have a stimulating discussion that leads to learning more information, but it's quite a different thing to have to continually point out basic logical fallacies to people who have no interest in understanding what a logical fallacy is in the first place. The latter is just frustrating and a waste of everyone's time, and is only a slightly more dressed up version of the lowest kinds of internet trolling.

I honestly dont know what to believe, or even if I should believe anything whatsoever.
This, and many other issues, just shows me how asleep I truely am...another damned divide and conquer tactic by the shadows.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


you do realize that people who believe that terrorists did 9/11 are just as convinced as you are that they didn't right?

And you also realize that "Truthers" can be just as ruthless, vile, and immature as anyone else?

You do realize that "truthers" are just as guilty of name calling and trolling as anyone else?

You're not the victims here. If you can't take the challenge and face it, maybe you shouldn't call yourself a truther.

There is a safety in embracing the O.S.
All is well, there is nothing to question, the government and others are good and pure and are there for you.
You dont have to think, just believe, and remember to "go shopping".
All of your needs and your safety are being studied and considered and laws and protocols are being changed for your continued protection.
We know youre afraid, well at least you were, until we identified who the bad guys are, and we did it minutes after the "attack".
Our intel obviously MISSED the pre attack stages, but we instantly became competent once the (mission) "attack" happened.
Be Safe now, believe what we tell you. ask yourself, would we lie?
If physics becomes an issue, and "things" happened for the first time ever involving steel, concrete, gravity, fire, or anything else, WELL hey we were just as surprised too, we thought that we understood the laws of physics BEFORE the towers were built, but we apologize.
So continue on, be safe, believe the O.S.
Dont question yourself, dont question others, dont question science, dont question elected leaders.
Dont be nervous, dont be afraid, the kool aid is sweet, now go back to sleep.

Originally posted by fleabit
What is the point of this thread? Point fingers and neener at each other?

As far as the truth versus fable goes for 9/11, you need to ask yourself this. For those who did not believe the reported sequence of events, why do their own versions of the "truth" vary so much? You expect folks to blindly accept that our government murdered innocent Americans, based on these vastly difference opinions of what occurred?


[edit on 7-3-2010 by fleabit]

It is because so many Truthers are EGOMANIACS. As I stated earlier, the truth movement will go NOWHERE until those that seek the truth band together into one force stating not, "WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED" but more "WE FIND A LACK OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT WHAT DID HAPPEN, EVIDENCE THAT REFUTES WHAT WAS SAID TO HAVE HAPPENED, AND ON THIS WE AGREE, AND BASED ON THIS WE DEMAND A NEW INVESTIGATION."
A big part of the problem with all the differing opinions, theories, hypotheses about what happened, lies purely with the ego of some that want to be the guy that figured it out... the genius that figured out what really happened on 9/11. It is glaringly obvious this is what some so-called truthers are all about. Deep down they could care less about the truth, they just want to be right.
Without ALL THE DATA, we can not possibly make a conclusion, and it seems pointless how these threads ALWAYS become a shootout between Trusters & Truthers. How many years has this gone on...? Almost 10 years now, and it has changed absolutely nothing. And so long as we have the internet, this shootout will never get any further than our living rooms but it makes some of us feel good, powerful even, to say, told ya so to some anonymous someone a thousand miles away.
Sadly enough, the 911 truth movement will die right here in our living rooms with each one of us, truther, truster, individually, right...we knew it all along...

It's hard to believe that quite a few people still swallow the official story when it is so full of holes and so full of nonsense...

Thankfully though it is becoming so damn obvious that more and more people are waking up each day.

Good to know that debunkers are being made to look like shills on here... I am new to this forum, but I look forward to seeing it happen sometime.

Cheers to people waking up, coming together, and taking this country back!

-Abe