911 Debunkers Take Beating on ATS.

Originally posted by trueforger
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Ya the Jesus in America notion is FAR more plausable to me than thinking He's in a million bread wafers because somebody says so,as believed all over the world today.At least Jones has a reason to back up even that claim.And what of it?He's still correct on the thermate.

If Steven Jones is so reliable why does he use fake pictures to try and support his argument:-

www.sharpprintinginc.com...:79

The 4th picture , which the author of that article doesn't realise, is from a video showing firefighters examining a hole with a flashlight !

Originally posted by odd1out
. The motto here is DENY IGNORANCE---ask yourself what that really means and you have found an the answer to all OS believers and why there is an ignore button on ATS.

The sad thing about most "truthers" is their polarity. That is, the people who don't buy into a 911 conspiracy are considered "ignorant" and "believe the OS". Personally, I've spent a number of years investigating the myriad of claims of conspiracists only to chase every one of their leads to find no tangible evidence in support of their claims whatsoever. I've been open-minded, investigated, and in the end determined that the conspiracy theorists have less evidence and more hogwash than the "official story". I am no huge champion of the "official story" - I see some problems therein. However, I see no appeal to any of the various 911 conspiracies based on their profound lack of evidence; this coming after my own investigations at the behest of such "truthers". To label others with a blanket statement that people who don't find evidence of conspiracy as "ignorant" and "believing the os" really reveals one's own ignorance and willingness to make unfounded assumptions.

Originally posted by odd1out
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

I've learned in life that some people derive huge amounts of pleasure from angering, frustrating, poking, prodding, inciting, aggravating, and plain pissing people off. It's like putting the small, weak man in uniform; he now realizes he has great power over others and becomes abusive with that power. Power & corruption seem to go hand in hand in MY world, I don't know about yours. I watch people that are able derail threads only because members "allow" them to...seems to me a great bit of childhood wisdom is often forgotten around here: ignore them, they'll go away. The internet forum provides many people with something they never had before; a chance to be heard and, with that, some find they have power over others...(and now start reading my paragraph over from the beginning).
I'd bet half the "chronic" OS believers here really don't give a rat's a$$ either way about the truth, they just enjoy the reactions to disagreeing with a truther even by spitting in the face of all logic, proof, and common sense. In fact, there's a very quick way to "set off" most anyone of intelligence...indignantly stand and argue for ignorance. The motto here is DENY IGNORANCE---ask yourself what that really means and you have found an the answer to all OS believers and why there is an ignore button on ATS.

reply to post by trueforger


Trusters? Did you already forget I doubt the OS? Now you have to provide more evidence of my analysis of you, by creating classes of 'believers' and 'nonbelievers' - leaving out any middle ground for people who are properly skeptical, but like good scientists, remain uncommitted to a conclusion in the absense of definitive data?

Good grief.

Who supports the OS? How about the scientists at NIST, for starts.

You can dismiss their work all you like, but they answer your request more than adequately.

reply to post by Dogdish


you danced around my MLK point-

which was (even though i stated it with perfect clarity) - even with 2 public trials WON - nobody cared.

the public is deaf to disruptive information that might possibly lead to having to get off of their sofa.

and listen to what the average person is saying about 9/11 these days - absolutely nothing.

reply to post by TrueTruth

So how does your non committal attitude cogitate the FACT that firefighters were in floor78 living,breathing,on radio,two minutes before the collapse initiation?There ought to have been a conflagration,sucking all available oxygen as fires always do.These guys were either,1Wrong as which floor they were at.2.Lying3not needing to breathe after running up those stairs in full battle gear Or???????????????????

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Traditionaldrummer---I actually wasn't replying to one of your posts, not sure how that happened, but you make some good points.
I think the truth movement would benefit greatly by CEASING all hypothesizing, theorizing, and speculating. If the truth movement banded together into one movement, say, in a push for a new investigation, without saying what we THINK might have happened, it would be a much more powerful force. As it stands now, the movement has been divided, and thus, conquered, by a myriad of theories, some of which as you say are just as bunk as the OS, in my opinion. Frankly, I think the time for debate is OVER; it is basically a distraction of INACTION. No one knows exactly what happened and no amount of speculation will TRUTHFULLY answer the questions.

Originally posted by belial259
I haven't believed the OS for years now and nothing could convince me to.

You deserve a cookie for being so openminded.

You shoud be proud.

Originally posted by Joey Canoli


You deserve a cookie for being so openminded.

You shoud be proud.

Not only did I not believe it for years.

I help disprove the OS on a daily basis.

That's gotta be worth a couple of cookies.

Maybe someday history will look back on 911 trials, and at those murder trials the guilty party ( i.e. moSSad agents ) will attempt to claim in their wretched defense,

“We were only following orders … !”



[edit on 7-3-2010 by seasoul]

reply to post by Shadow Herder

Now, since they have been taking a beating here the next step is for these individuals or groups to start posting Bizarre, Stupid theories like , Directed energy weapons, pods, space beams, lasers, fuel tankers and other overly debunked material in attempts to pretend that it comes from 'truthers' which of course it they do not.

Agreed, but they are taking it in another, more sinister direction as well. Attempting to link crackpot shooters and almost any other schizo to the 9/11 truth movement lowers the bar for even the worst debunkerizers.
The Glen Becks, Avlons and Oreaaalllys are doing it in MSM, and the usual suspects are doing it on ATS. The pentagon shooter, the Holocaust museum shooter, the recruiting center shooter, 3 AM Times Square bomber, the IRS bldg. flyer, etc. Repeated attempts to link crazies with legitimate 9/11 truth investigators/websites.

The next one, as a member said in another thread (can't find it or I would link) will be a white male shooter with child porno and growing marijuana in his basement, who recently visited Pakistan or Yemen and possessed multiple copies of "Loose Change 3rd edition". Also with an "arsenal" of two semiautomatic weapons and 100 rounds of ammo.

Originally posted by Sean48

That's gotta be worth a couple of cookies.

That depends.

Like the dude I quoted, would nothing persuade you to believe the "os"?

Even if you got your new investigation?

I suspect you would still complain.

That is your cross to bear.....

reply to post by TrueTruth


Exactly my point, even though it leads to your point.
The public who were aware were outraged, the media were not. Therefore the public at large weren't aware.
That was Nixon era, this is internet era.
There are thousands of deaths and counting, waiting for this truth to come to light. We have no way of knowing if any of these would rise to the level of another MLKJr, but the loss, and outrage, are not comparable in these two situations.
When the media is forced to acknowledge the truth, by the enormous outrage that will come from this, they too, will be outraged.

If directed energy is such a novel idea, PLEASE EXPLAIN the huge number of anomalies that ONLY a directed energy weapon could explain.

There are huge numbers of vehicles photographed that show damage that could NOT have been caused by falling debris or any other feature of the event. there are round hols in glass....round holes in the places where buildings were, huge gaping holes, many stories down...NOT a pile of debris but blown out stories deep!!

There are many people who dismiss the DEW, but not ONE of them can explain the evidence seen with the events of a collapse.

DEW is the ONLY answer to certain questions, and no other answer comes close. IF you can explain ( intelligently ) the anomalous evidence that ONLY DEW can answer in some other way, lets hear it....and PLEASE do not insult all of us by saying it was ' active dust' or falling debris...none of them can melt engine blocks while leaving the paint pristine.

reply to post by trueforger


i'm not having a debate about the incident. i'm all done with that. i've wasted enough of my life on this kind of dead end speculation.

you are free to obsess about it. but i'm back to having a life now, and concentrating on localization/economic issues, which are at the root of all of this crap in the first place.

enjoy yourself.

reply to post by Sean48


when you announce 'nothing could convince me' - you announce you have turned off the power source to your critical thinking faculties, and have become 'a believer' - which is a most frightening kind of human being.

you've shut off your most precious gift as a human being - critical thinking.

be open to evidence. belief is the death of thought.

[edit on 7-3-2010 by TrueTruth]

reply to post by Dogdish


wish i agreed with you dogdish, but i don't. as is, the majority of people outright laugh at the hypotheses that the 'truther' movement has generated, exemplified by that horrendous film loose change, which i don't think floats a single theory that isn't easily and handily debunked.

all of this eagerness to insert explanations rather than focussing on the weakness of the OS has done irreparable harm to this effort.

It'll be decades, if ever, that the 'truth' comes out. And in the process, legitimate skepticism has been tarred with the brush of fanaticism.

sucks.

Originally posted by Sean48


Not only did I not believe it for years.

I help disprove the OS on a daily basis.

That's gotta be worth a couple of cookies.

Have you learned what the term phenomena means? Once you do that, we will all chip in and get you a box of cookies.

reply to post by Alfie1

And your point is...?
Jones' pix show white hot steel.
FIREFIGHTERS saw molten(hotter than white hot,but not by much)steel.
They lying too?And their record of veracity,questionable?Like the prime suspect?

Originally posted by TrueTruth
reply to post by Dogdish

 

wish i agreed with you dogdish, but i don't. as is, the majority of people outright laugh at the hypotheses that the 'truther' movement has generated, exemplified by that horrendous film loose change, which i don't think floats a single theory that isn't easily and handily debunked.

all of this eagerness to insert explanations rather than focussing on the weakness of the OS has done irreparable harm to this effort.

It'll be decades, if ever, that the 'truth' comes out. And in the process, legitimate skepticism has been tarred with the brush of fanaticism.

sucks.

I don't see it as laughing. I think it's 'whistling past the graveyard'.

I think the realization of the enormity of this crime, shows a basic fight or flight reaction by which side of the fence you choose.

I don't see fanaticism, at worst I see Quixoticism.