I KNEW this was going to happen, sooner or later!!!

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

Perhaps you undermined the Bush administration to think they couldn’t pull it off is really ignorant don’t you think

Not really. To assume so and then leave us with the 911 commission report as the finale just doesn't add up. It would be more ignorant to exclude that fact.

Exclude what fact? The fact that they are all a bunch of proven lairs? All covering up the truth. That is the fact here.

Ken and Thomas from the 911 commission admitted to lying, what more do you need?

Most of us already know the 911 commission was set up to fail, the WH stonewalled their inquiries. One must ask, why would the WH hold out on the 911 commissioners, if there is nothing to hide?

We know either they where complicit or allowed 911 to happened, either way the evidences supports it.


[edit on 24-5-2010 by impressme]

Originally posted by straightedge.73

And technically, I'm not a braggart, big boy. I'm on top of it, quite confident in my abilities and I have zero patience for ignorance. Which would make this entire interaction boring, at best. I could have a more intelligent conversation with a straw, frankly.

Most hilarious statement ever. Not a braggart, but you'll brag your way to the end of the paragraph. I still think you're full of it, but by all means, please carry on with your nineelevenations.

Originally posted by impressme

Exclude what fact? The fact that they are all a bunch of proven lairs? All covering up the truth. That is the fact here.

So here at the commission they have the ability to cover their tracks completely after allegedly masterminding the greatest conspiracy of all time, yet they all stumble over their shoelaces during the big finale? You don't find this the least bit odd?

We know either they where complicit or allowed 911 to happened, either way the evidences supports it.

Sez U.

There's really not much in the way of tangible evidence supporting any of the various conspiracy theories. Believe me, I've looked.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

There's really not much in the way of tangible evidence supporting any of the various conspiracy theories. Believe me, I've looked.

The fact is, most of us do not support any conspiracy theories about 911, we only support the proven facts. Credible evidence, with credible science that’s supports it.

You obviously have not looked very far; perhaps you are looking only on the gov.org websites.
Government websites that spews proven propaganda and fantasy as truths, such as this one below.

[color=gold]It’s Official: U.S. Government Website Declares There Are No Conspiracies!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I suppose experts in their field of expertise that have proven the OS sciences a fraud are all lairs as well, such as these experts.

[color=gold]1197 architectural and engineering professionals

cms.ae911truth.org...

[color=gold]FF 911 Truth

firefightersfor911truth.org...

Senior Military, Intelligence, Law Enforcement,
and Government Officials Question
the 9/11 Commission Report

Engineers and Architects
Question the 9/11 Commission Report

Pilots and Aviation Professionals
Question the 9/11 Commission Report

Professors Question the
9/11 Commission Report

9/11 Survivors and Family Members
Question the 9/11 Commission Report

Entertainment and Media Professionals
Question the 9/11 Commission Report

www.bushstole04.com...

[color=gold]Pilots for 9/11 Truth

www.pilotsfor911truth.org...

I suppose all these people who question the OS are all “conspiracy theorist,” do you agree with that?
Perhaps, you might consider the word of [color=gold]government over proven science?
The fact is, everything about the OS of 911 has mostly been proven a fraud by many ATS members over the years. Are you [color=gold]ignoring the scientific evidences or [color=gold]you are just Trolling?

You seem to disagree with everyone, yet you fail to show why, how interesting.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by impressme]

Originally posted by impressme
You obviously have not looked very far; perhaps you are looking only on the gov.org websites.
Government websites that spews proven propaganda and fantasy as truths, such as this one below.

Is that really what you'll tell someone who says they have looked for evidence and found none? You attribute their search to government sources even though they're in a 911 alternative theory thread? I suspect your intellect runs deeper than this.

I suppose all these people who question the OS are all “conspiracy theorist,” do you agree with that?

Wouldn't you suspect that since I've expressed my own disdain for the commission report that I too may question the report?

Are you [color=gold]ignoring the scientific evidences or [color=gold]you are just Trolling?

You seem to disagree with everyone, yet you fail to show why, how interesting.

Taunting and goading does not make for productive conversation and you should have learned this is you frequent these kinds of discussions. Again, there is no tangible evidence to support any of the various conspiracy theories. What "scientific evidence" I've seen presented basically amounts to some equations thrown at situations that are dubious, and often presented by people who know little of science or math. Bottom line: to prove a conspiracy it'll take more than a pocket protector and the scientific calculator.

reply to post by impressme


All you seem to do is make assertions, point to a couple of marginal groups of marginal "experts" and claim victory.

But where is your "victory"? If you've proved all this stuff, if you've snatched away the veil and laid bare the conspiracy, then where's your impeachment? Where are your trials? You haven't even got a new investigation. Some win.

Originally posted by seethelight
reply to post by Shadow Herder

 

What are you doing to help Africans?




Funny how your sympathies lie along the same lines as your conspiracy theories.

I am very far removed (in distance) from this discussion, and I don't blame this or any forum for somebody who goes on the rampage because of something he/she read in forums.

The information is there for you to read and decide for yourself what to do with it. Anybody who thinks that they can take on TPTB with a handgun belongs in a mental institute.

As for the Africans, the poster does not have to concern himself with who is going to help the Africans.... I live in Africa, believe me, they help themselves to what they want, and they don't give a damn about how many lives they have to take to get what they want. Just go google "farm murders" and take note. Another conspiracy? Come visit us and see how long it will take to open your eyes, and please come un-armed, because I suppose by now you know you cannot travel with any personal weapons (or a bottle of water) thanks to your perfect government's neurotic security controls.... caused by an incident that they planned and executed themselves. Oh-yeah, apparently that is also a conspiracy theory, you still believe that an arab with a few private flying lessons and a carpet knive can take out hundreds of citizens of what is supposedly a SUPERPOWER of the world, and in doing so, he performs flight maneuvers that not even experienced pilots can equal. Catch a wake-up and go read CNN instead of ATS as you don't seem to be looking for information anyways.

This is horrible and my heart goes out to the families of all parties of this tragedy. This can't be blamed on any Truther conspiracy, they have rights to conspire. But this man obviously was a time bomb and unstable.

Originally posted by straightedge.73
Oh. It's my pleasure, Dave.

First. The remark about talking up the Silverstein comment regarding "pulling" building 7 can be found here, said BY Silverstein:
www.youtube.com... unless of course you are suggesting that we can't trust what he says by his OWN admission. So much for "NOTHING NOTHING".

I suggest you take another look at his statement. He's not saying that HE made the decision to "pull it". He's saying the NEW YORK FIRE DEPARTMENT made the decision to "pull it". You conspiracy people are making up claims that "pull it" doesn't mean getting fire fighters out of a dangerous area, but to blow up a building with controlled demolitions, so you are necessarily accusing the NYFD of planting controlled demolitions as well as staging a coverup of said controlled demolitions, not to mention being involved in a conspiracy to murder 300+ of their fellow fire fighters.

You people are so madly in love with these conspiracy stories and so eagar to grasp any any straw that helps you keep them alive that you don't even care whose good reputation you need to drag through the filth in order to advance your conspiracy agenda. It's absolutely disgusting.

Second, the "silly games" you refer to was actually a question that you have now, refused to answer for the second time. Which tells me and- will tell just about anyone whom is an ATS regular the real truth by your repeated attempts (weak ones at that) to provide disinformation on this site. Anyone who doesn't believe that can just look at EVERY SINGLE POST you have put on this web site.

I absolutely invite anyone to "take a look at every single post I have put on this site", and point out even *one* thing I said that was ever incorrect. Why should I be afraid of any such review?

The "silly games" I was referring to was in reference to the penchant you conspiracy people have in misrepresenting everything you touch to sucker people into believing in your conspiracy stories. Case in point...

Third, by the NORAD stand down order, you have either misquoted someone for the sake of posting yet another lame attack of the individuals on this site or you just aren't aware of Operation Northern Vigilance.

The whole Operation Northern Vigilance bit is a complete red herring. The moment they said, "this is no drill" everyone understood the 9/11 attack wasn't part of any of the exercises.

Every time you attempt to show why you're right, all you do is show why MY statement is right on how these damned fool conspiracy web sites are deliberately instigating false public unrest over these conspiracy fairy tales. If you can't see how that would contribute to this nutcase travelling across the country to "strike a blow against the 9/11 conspiracy", then you're already lost.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by GoodOlDave]

reply to post by impressme


I've tried to bite my tongue, and clamp my fingers...but disengenuousness should be noted, when appropriate:

The fact is, most of us do not support any conspiracy theories about 911, we only support the proven facts. Credible evidence, with credible science that’s supports it.

Oh..."most of us"? That doesn't seem to include you, based on a few very provacative "conspiracy theories about 9/11" that you've espoused, on these very boards. To wit:

A thread by impressme --
Did the USAF Help pull off 911?

Extremely insulting, that was, to the USAF....dontcha think? And I daresay, just the tip of the iceberg of very outlandish so-called "new proof" that has been posted...AND, these are pure 'theory' or...well, not really, more like just made up from nothing but one's twisted, desperate imagination....and desire to use ANY minor perceived "flaw", no matter how trivial or ridiculous, to further the tilting at windmills that the "9/11 conspiracy" trend has become, of late...

....and likely to fan the flames, and possibly cause additional acts of violence, should some weak-minded individual with such a propensity stumble upon the topic, and actually believe it, and then act on those beliefs....





[edit on 25 May 2010 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

we only support the proven facts.

You obviously have not looked very far; perhaps you are looking only on the gov.org websites.
Government websites that spews proven propaganda and fantasy as truths, such as this one below.

I suppose experts in their field of expertise that have proven the OS sciences a fraud are all lairs as well, such as these experts.

[color=gold]1197 architectural and engineering professionals

cms.ae911truth.org...

[color=gold]FF 911 Truth

firefightersfor911truth.org...

Senior Military, Intelligence, Law Enforcement,
and Government Officials Question
the 9/11 Commission Report

Engineers and Architects
Question the 9/11 Commission Report

Pilots and Aviation Professionals
Question the 9/11 Commission Report

Professors Question the
9/11 Commission Report

9/11 Survivors and Family Members
Question the 9/11 Commission Report

Entertainment and Media Professionals
Question the 9/11 Commission Report

www.bushstole04.com...

[color=gold]Pilots for 9/11 Truth

www.pilotsfor911truth.org...

I suppose all these people who question the OS are all “conspiracy theorist,” do you agree with that?
Perhaps, you might consider the word of [color=gold]government over proven science?
The fact is, everything about the OS of 911 has mostly been proven a fraud by many ATS members over the years. Are you [color=gold]ignoring the scientific evidences or [color=gold]you are just Trolling?

You seem to disagree with everyone, yet you fail to show why, how interesting.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by impressme]

You say we support only proven facts. I have yet to find one proven fact that has anything to do with the WTC attacks on 9/11/01. Can you direct me to just one proven fact? You act like there is not proven science that supports the OS.

How is it possible for people to be so distrusting of the media and then, at the same time, be so trusting of the media? Clearly the media that supports their theories is honest and telling the truth and the SAME media that refutes their theories are liars and part of the coverup.

You cite a lot of sites that say they want independant investigations of the WTC collapses. What good will it do? If the independant investigations show the buildings were not demolished then it's just part of the conspiracy. If the independant investigations show the buildings were demolished then it's just part of the conspiracy. Either way we lose.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by iamcpc]

traditionaldrummer
Taunting and goading does not make for productive conversation

I agree, who is Taunting and goading, please show an example?

TrickoftheShade

All you seem to do is make assertions, point to a couple of marginal groups of marginal "experts" and claim victory.
But where is your "victory"?

This threads is not about me.
Yes, I have pointed to “experts’ and claimed victory does that fact bother you? Is the truth not important to you? I believe in the Truth. These experts have proven what I believe in. Where are your experts to prove your OS true?

weedwhacker

I've tried to bite my tongue, and clamp my fingers...but disengenuousness should be noted, when appropriate:

The fact is, most of us do not support any conspiracy theories about 911, we only support the proven facts. Credible evidence, with credible science that’s supports it.

Oh..."most of us"? That doesn't seem to include you, based on a few very provacative "conspiracy theories about 9/11" that you've espoused, on these very boards. To wit:

A thread by impressme --
Did the USAF Help pull off 911?

Extremely insulting, that was, to the USAF....dontcha think?

Insulting, that is your opinion from the OS side nerveless, Bite your tongue, you! As far as me being [color=gold]disengenuousness, that is a “fallacy.” I don’t need to make up lies to support the OS lie. Only OS believers need to do that in supporting the lies of the OS, because there are no truths to this fairytale, as it has been well demonstrated in this thread already.

I am glad you brought this up, as far as the USAF helping to pull off 911, none of you, and you, weedwhacker, could not disprove it. It was [color=gold]23 pages of constant insults, name calling, and making up outrages lies. All you did was what you are doing right now, insulting and ridiculing. It is obvious that the Truth is the last thing some of you want. I have to wonder what your true agendas really are? If any one has been [color=gold]disengenuousness, take a good look in a mirror.
The Truth stands on its own, you cannot make it go away. No ridiculing and insults will make it go away.
Weedwhacker you and I are complete opposites when it comes to 911, I do NOT support the OS, yet you do. It has mostly been proven lies, and you know that, so why do you continue to support the OS lies? Does insulting me make you feel better? It will not make the truth go away.

Iamcpc

You say we support only proven facts. I have yet to find one proven fact that has anything to do with the WTC attacks on 9/11/01. Can you direct me to just one proven fact? You act like there is not proven science that supports the OS.

Here is another one who wishes to challenge me, yet he posts nothing no sources? If there were any real sciences to support the OS I would like to see it? BTW don’t waste your time with NIST proven fraudulent report. Had there been any real sciences to prove the OS was true; YOU would have been “delighted” to embarrass me by posting this credible science.

How is it possible for people to be so distrusting of the media and then, at the same time, be so trusting of the media? Clearly the media that supports their theories is honest and telling the truth and the SAME media that refutes their theories are liars and part of the coverup.

Who says I trust the media? I have never made any such statement. This is the game some of you enjoying playing. Fist of all, the media ONLY supports the proven lies of the OS and that my friend is a proven fact.
Our media is used by our military and government for propaganda purposes another proven fact.

You cite a lot of sites that say they want independant investigations of the WTC collapses. What good will it do?

Again, I need to remind you, these sites are not just for “independent investigation” some of these sites prove with credible science that the OS is a lie, why don’t you read it. The majority of experts do not support the OS, they have proven it to be mostly lies.

Now that the science proves the WTC could not have come down the way our government said it did, we know we have been lied too.

We need a new investigation into why the cover-up from our government in the first place, second we need to find out what party in our government was responsible for the demolition of the WTC and who carried it out, we know it was not 19 hijackers, common logic tells us that. How would they get their hands on an un-paten supper nano Thermite to begin with. That is why we need a new investigation, and one with subpoena power and without the government being involved.

If the independant investigations show the buildings were not demolished then it's just part of the conspiracy. If the independant investigations show the buildings were demolished then it's just part of the conspiracy. Either way we lose.

No, we don’t lose if we get our new investigation. You are assuming we will lose, you forgot scientist have proof already, that supper nano Thermite was used and not a common nano Thermite either. You cannot argue against proven sciences, it is that simple.

The government had their chance to bring sciences to the table to back up the OS, all they had to do was tell the flipping truth, if they were not involved in the destruction of the WTC, then why did they hirer NIST to make up a phony report that doesn’t hold water to real sciences? If the government was not behind the destruction of the WTC, why does the government still refuse to talk about it? why did the the Bush adminastration stone-walled the 911 commissioners investigation about the WTC, and everything else? Their silence says it all.


[edit on 25-5-2010 by impressme]

It doesn't bother me that you claim "victory", because it's so demonstrably not the case. Outside of your own mind and the minds of a handful of cranks the Truth Movement has no traction whatsoever.

Even if it has intellectual merit - and obviously I don't think it does - this is just a simple fact. You are nowhere near even another investigation, which is the bare minimum for you to even begin to think you've made progress, let alone "won".

The rest of your post makes me think of a religious zealot, seriously.

Have a read of this:

www.kenrahn.com...

People died fighting Hittler, womans rights and votes and to free slaves on both sides so what is he trying to say anyway!

Originally posted by impressme


Here is another one who wishes to challenge me, yet he posts nothing no sources? If there were any real sciences to support the OS I would like to see it? BTW don’t waste your time with NIST proven fraudulent report. Had there been any real sciences to prove the OS was true; YOU would have been “delighted” to embarrass me by posting this credible science.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Several sources and credible science supporting the OS theories.

1. Yes, I have pointed to “experts’ and claimed victory does that fact bother you?
2. Is the truth not important to you?
3. These experts have proven what I believe in.
4. Where are your experts to prove your OS true?

1. It does not bother me. I have pointed to 'experts' and claimed that no one knows what really happened. Does that fact bother you?

2. Yes that is why I investigate all possible theories and have found credible expert sources (which I have cited) that have supported the OS theories. If the truth is important to you then why have you not researched all possible theories. I know you have not because then you would have found credible experts supporting some of those theories instead of saying things like there are no credible sources that support the OS theories.

3. No. Those experts have presented significant evidence and expert testimony that supports those theories. Nothing has been proven. If it was proven then there would not be a need for an investigation. It was already proven. ALSO if it was proven then there would not be teams of experts doing independant investigations and supporting OS theories.

4. Experts have not proven the OS theories to be true that is why they are theories. Experts have presented significant evidence and expert testimony that supports those theories.

I love how theories you support are PROVEN FACT AND TRUTH and all other theories and PROVEN LIE AND FALSE.

Again, I need to remind you, these sites are not just for “independent investigation” some of these sites prove with credible science that the OS is a lie, why don’t you read it. The majority of experts do not support the OS, they have proven it to be mostly lies.

If you said "some of these sitespresent credible science that supports the theory that the WTC towers didn't collapse from airplane damage and fire. "

I would agree 100%.

Who says I trust the media? I have never made any such statement. This is the game some of you enjoying playing. Fist of all, the media ONLY supports the proven lies of the OS and that my friend is a proven fact.
Our media is used by our military and government for propaganda purposes another proven fact.

again with the proven lies. Where do you get your information? You cite websites. Well the internet is a form of media. If you're trusting a website then you're trusting a branch of the media. Google, a massive corporation owns a significant portion of the internet in America. The government itself has actively studied how information travels along the internet as a tool for spreading propoganda. Yet you have yet to respond to my theory. That the truther and debunker movements were actually started by carefully planted evidence and propaganda on the internet to cause ignorant sheep to chase their tales about the collapse of the WTC towers while not investigating the real problem. 5 years from now when there is another WTC whoever started the truther/debunker movement will be thinking MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!

No, we don’t lose if we get our new investigation. You are assuming we will lose, you forgot scientist have proof already, that supper nano Thermite was used and not a common nano Thermite either. You cannot argue against proven sciences, it is that simple.

Were the first 4 or 5 investigations not enough? The science that found thermite supports the theory that thermite was used to cause the collapse of the WTC towers.

yet a truther expert Judy D. Wood is a former professor of mechanical engineering who has her Ph.D. (Materials Engineering Science, 1992) from the Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, Virginia.

drjudywood.blogspot.com...

"Thermite is used to explain molten metal. (1)Molten metal and
(2)"we shipped it to China" explain why there was not very
much actual metal left after the attacks (compared to the
huge WTC buildings.) Both are (1) and (2) are lies."

"The truth is that the steel was turned to dust and what you
see in the image of 9/12 (or so) is a dusty pile. Not a lake
of molten metal (as thermite the thermite theory says) and
not a pile of steel beams (as the pancake theory says)."



[edit on 26-5-2010 by iamcpc]

Originally posted by impressme
The fact is, most of us do not support any conspiracy theories about 911, we only support the proven facts. Credible evidence, with credible science that’s supports it.

I tried to stay out of this bickering, but the above statement is by far the most morally bankrupt, pathologically false statement I've heard anyone from the conspiracy camp utter. It's akin to a child caught with his hand in the cookie jar with cookie crumbs all over his face, denying that he was taking cookies.

Of COURSE you support conspiracy theories, Impressme, your own posts makes that ring out loud and clear. You jump up and down yelling, "witnesses heard explosions" but when we point out that "witnesses say the passenger jet hit the Pentagon" you either run away like vampires run away from sunlight, or, you make up crap off the top of your head about how they're all secret disinformation agents. The lie upon all lies is when you quote your beloved conspiracy sites to support your conspiracy stories, but when we mention these exact same sites refute what you want to believe you're notorious for immediately changing the subject to something else.

It's patently obvious that credible evidence to you is NOT based upon the trustworthiness of the source, but rather, whether it happens to agree with what you yourself want to believe regardless of how credible it is. I shouldn't have to tell you this is NOT the proper behavior of someone genuinely intersted in learning the truth behind the events of 9/11. This is the behavior of someone out to sucker other people and getting them to believe what he wants them to believe.

reply to post by iamcpc

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Several sources and credible science supporting the OS theories

There are no sources on my old thread to back your sources, or shell I say “opinions.” In fact, if there were, you would have joyfully posted them. Instead you post my old 911 thread with nothing but the OS “opinions,” nothing more.

I love how theories you support are PROVEN FACT AND TRUTH and all other theories and PROVEN LIE AND FALSE.

Sorry to upset you but my “opinions” and your “opinions” are not the facts, get real.
I cannot help it, if my credible sources prove the OS is a lie. My sources are not “opinions” they are the facts and sciences supports it.
You have failed to establish any credibility into supporting your OS. However, when one supports proven lies you have nothing, and that is something I think everyone will agree on.




[edit on 26-5-2010 by impressme]

reply to post by GoodOlDave


I see the “tag team” is getting desperate. The real conspiracy is the OS, it is chuck full of proven lies, why do you support it?

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

I see the “tag team” is getting desperate. The real conspiracy is the OS, it is chuck full of proven lies, why do you support it?

Conversely, none of the proposed conspiracy theories regarding 911 are backed by any facts or evidence. Why support them?

Preemptive strike: spare us the "proven science" nonsense. Where's the tangible, irrefutable evidence? It doesn't seem to be anywhere.

Originally posted by impressme
I see the “tag team” is getting desperate. The real conspiracy is the OS, it is chuck full of proven lies, why do you support it?

Mostly, becuase all the conspiracy theorists who say it's chuck full of proven lies are themselves chuck full of proven lies. Heck, even Bonez says your, "no plane hit the Pentagon" and your "Shanksville crash site had been faked" claims are hogwash. If he doesn't take you seriously, then why should I?

I await your total evasion of the question with rapt attention.