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reply to post by antonia


Hi Antonia,

what do you think of this?- 2012time2growup.ning.com...

Personally... I feel like that man made a choice... of course i don't agree with it because people we've looked up to like Martin Luther King Jr., Ghandi, Malcom X, Rosa Parks, JFK, were all activists, anarchists, truthers... They were men and women of peace... Just because we conversate about conspiracies does not make us the problem... Our government is the largest drug importer in America... Our entire system is screwed up because of the decisions our government makes... So I honestly think they deserve to be held accountable for the way they toy with peoples lives... regardless of whether most conspiracies or true or not... something is going wrong and peoples lives are being destroyed because of it... You can't blame one group of people for anything thing another man chooses to do... a man has to answer for his own actions... I think what this guy did was a stupid idiotic thing... he has no power to determine whether someone lives or die... nobody does... and the fact that he took it upon himself to do that means exactly that... HE TOOK IT UPON HIMSELF... if anyone is to blame... it's every person in the United States that sat back and let our government screw our lives up instead of excercising our constitutional right to speak against our government policies... there are no prominent activists today... which is why our country is screwed up... cuz everybody only cares about themself... so like i said... before you blame us... blame yourself... if you haven't made an effort to make your voice heard by our government about the way things are than it is just as much your fault as anyone elses... because you allowed this to happen just as much as you say truthers did... you shouldn't throw stones... because when you stop and think about it... the only thing you're doing is throwing it at yourself in the end... your post displays ignorance and a lack of common sense

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by jprophet420
I specifically said that you have to present a clear and present danger in my post, the tactic that was used by that the prosecution in that case.

So what part of a 9/11 conspiracy theorist travelling to the Pentagon and shooting two cops isn't an indication of a clear and present danger?

Last month, before this happened, you would have had a point. Now that it's happened, not so much.

Really? Find ONE legal professional who agrees that "truthers" are a clear and present danger.

You will not be able to do so and you know it.

Originally posted by jprophet420
Really? Find ONE legal professional who agrees that "truthers" are a clear and present danger.

You will not be able to do so and you know it.

As of right now, right this moment, I can agree with you that it legally isn't classified as a clear and present danger. That's why I said it was an INDICATION of a clear and present danger, as in your movement is not really a criminal organization, but your movement's track record of deliberate manipulation and misrepresentation shows you're not entirely boy scouts either. We need to wait and see what continues to happen.

If this the first, last, and only shooting rampage associated with this 9/11 conspiracy mongoring then you can rest easy, but if someday, some nutcase murders Silverstein to "strike out against the 9/11 oligarchy" then you have to know there is going to be some hard core public backlash against your movement, and legal prosecution against whoever it was that suckered the shooter into believing this conspiracy rubbish to begin with.

Yeah, I know you're goign to disagree, but we both know that up until this shooting happened, you likewise disagreed that there'd be *any* shooting over these 9/11 conspiracies. Time will tell if there's another ticking time bomb in your ranks out there.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

"My movement" comes from my bowels.

I just want a new investigation, or for the government to definitively forbid one. Either will be as telling.

I never spoke for truthers, ever. They aren't a clear and present danger to anything, especially TBTB.

Originally posted by jprophet420
I just want a new investigation, or for the government to definitively forbid one. Either will be as telling.

I never spoke for truthers, ever. They aren't a clear and present danger to anything, especially TBTB.

The main problem I'm seeing is the wide range of mind numbing stupid claims I'm seeing your side produce. One person even posted here on ATS how the 9/11 attack was staged by a secret cult of Satan worshipping numerologists who destroyed the WTC becuase it resembled a giant number eleven. I can certainly see how such a person with such a fringe opinion could get the idea that killing someone would be an acceptable solution, even if you can't.

All I can say is that I certainly hope you're right. For me to be right, it necessarily means that some innocent bystander has to be killed.

"My movement" comes from my bowels.

Yep, I know what you mean. I made some fresh 9/11 conspiracy theory material in my upstairs bathroom too.

Sorry, couldn't resist

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by jprophet420
I just want a new investigation, or for the government to definitively forbid one. Either will be as telling.

I never spoke for truthers, ever. They aren't a clear and present danger to anything, especially TBTB.

The main problem I'm seeing is the wide range of mind numbing stupid claims I'm seeing your side produce. One person even posted here on ATS how the 9/11 attack was staged by a secret cult of Satan worshipping numerologists who destroyed the WTC becuase it resembled a giant number eleven. I can certainly see how such a person with such a fringe opinion could get the idea that killing someone would be an acceptable solution, even if you can't.

All I can say is that I certainly hope you're right. For me to be right, it necessarily means that some innocent bystander has to be killed.

"My movement" comes from my bowels.

Yep, I know what you mean. I made some fresh 9/11 conspiracy theory material in my upstairs bathroom too.

Sorry, couldn't resist

The current official release is that we were attacked by Saudi Arabians and invaded 2 (other) sovereign countries in an attempt to thwart a person whom the F.B.I. admits is not a suspect.

Thats flushable also.

There is no "side".

Originally posted by jprophet420

The current official release is that we were attacked by Saudi Arabians and invaded 2 (other) sovereign countries in an attempt to thwart a person whom the F.B.I. admits is not a suspect.

Thus, the reason why I have so much disgust and contempt for these damned fool web sites- the more they repeat their story, the more it gets discombobulated to the point where it doesn't resemble the original message anymore.

The FBI said they didn't have any HARD evidence, as in nothing directly linking Bin Laden to the terror attack...but they DO have a paper trail between him and a bunch of intermediaries I.E.(Khalid Sheikh Mohammed) to the 9/11 attack. I know this becuase I learned it from Impressme's own links. The FBI also don't have Bin Laden on their ten most wanted lists becuase to be on the list, they need to bring the case to a Grand Jury (which is a civilian court). The gov't doesn't want to charge him in a civilian court, they want to bring him to a military court, so they can keep the proceedings secret. I'm not making any of this up; you can find all this out with a simple 30 second google search.

...then along come these damned fool conspriacy web sites, who are too lazy to learn how the law works and thnk it's "suspicious" that Bin Laden isn't on the list, and put it together with a misrepresentation that the FBI having no hard evdence means they have no evidence AT ALL, and they come up with "the FBI admits Bin Laden isn't a suspect". Big surprise, seeing those con artists have an agenda to sucker people into becoming all paranoid over stupid claims that the gov't is trying to murder us all.

I will wager anything you'd like that it it was one or more of those damned fool web sites getting people all paranoid over rubbish exactly like this that got this guy to go out and shoot those Pentagon cops to begin with.

[edit on 15-3-2010 by GoodOlDave]

Originally posted by seethelight

 

Not true.

Truthers are what people call themselves when they calim to look for the truth about 9/11.

Faithers are what they actually are, because they have faith in their contradictory and nonsensical theories, even when they have no proof.

An example:

How did no one here the timed explosions necessary to demo two 100 story buildings?

Secret technology/UFOs


You see, the lack of evidence doesn't make them question what they believe, because what they believe isn't based on facts, but faith.

My friend, if this is what you are hooking into then you have such a long way to go to even beging to understand what we here stand for and 'believe' in...in most cases our understanding has come from years of research and 'reading between the line's to come to a conclusion.

Remember that there is a lot to gain by understanding what is NOT said too :-)

Valorian

[edit on 15-3-2010 by Valorian]

Originally posted by seethelight
reply to post by Shadow Herder

 

Yeah, cause god knows you truthers were worried about the Afghans in 1999.

Talk about defection.

What are you doing to help Africans?

What about North Koreans?


Funny how your sympathies lie along the same lines as your conspiracy theories.

Along with "GoodOleDave" we have member #2 of said Psy Ops. Why would anyone come onto a CT web site and talk smack about theories that are posted. Do we care if you believe? Nope. Are we suggesting it is absolute fact, without a doubt? No. We are simply saying things don't line up. If you have a problem with that, speak to the 9/11 commission that ignored BLARING faults with their "investigation". The days of the JFK/Roswell/9-11 cover ups are over. We will state what we believe, we WILL reach out to those that we care about to speak our peace. If you don't like it, go elsewhere. Your opinion is neither warranted nor wanted. Ya feel me, Chief? Thanks. Please drive through.

Originally posted by straightedge.73
Along with "GoodOleDave" we have member #2 of said Psy Ops. Why would anyone come onto a CT web site and talk smack about theories that are posted. Do we care if you believe? Nope. Are we suggesting it is absolute fact, without a doubt? No.

Of COURSE you conspiracy people are insisting that your conspiracy stories are the truth, how can you deny it? When someone posts statements like, "smoking gun" they're declaring their material to be irrefutable proof of conspiracy. When someone posts how everyone who disagrees with them are "suckered by gov't propaganda" it's a declaration that everything they know is right, and everything that other people know is wrong, whether you happen to agree with it or not.

In case the fact had escaped you...and apparently it has...the shooter in this case was every bit as thoroughly convinced of these conspiracies as the fanatics in this board are. You don't travel across the entire country and shoot people becuase you think there *might* be some conspiracy going on.

We are simply saying things don't line up. If you have a problem with that, speak to the 9/11 commission that ignored BLARING faults with their "investigation". The days of the JFK/Roswell/9-11 cover ups are over. We will state what we believe, we WILL reach out to those that we care about to speak our peace. If you don't like it, go elsewhere. Your opinion is neither warranted nor wanted. Ya feel me, Chief? Thanks. Please drive through.

Sorry Charlie, but freedom of speech goes both ways. You have every right to express your thoughts and noone is prohibiting you from doing so, but by the same token, we have every right to point out all the blatant flaws and inaccusacies in the material you post. You're not accusing people of stealing cookies out of the cookie jar, after all, you're accusing people of conspiring to murder 3,000 Americans, so you have to know your posts are goign to be inspected thoroughly.If you don't like it, then stop posting flaws and innacuracies. It ain't a trick question.

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
A pointless thread.

Another one of these 'Truthers' are crackpots threads..... in a conspiracy forum? Really?

Must you insult everyone you meet?


Your trying to group people who love their country and have a drive to find the truth look like the murderers who killed John Lennon which I might add had connection to the Gov.

People are tired of living in your type of world dave. A world built on lies and bloodshed.



Dont forget that the lies that your beloved government sold you lead many good people to war that killed and displaced millions. The war still rages on and good american families as well as Iraqi, Afghani familes will never see their loved ones again.


Shame

[edit on 5-3-2010 by Shadow Herder]

this is a really good post, Shadow. It's really well written and patient, considering the type of person you are responding to. I will try to reflect that same level of patience in my future posts. People like him tend to rub me the wrong way. It's fully ironic when someone demands that we only see things his way, while he's talking smack about us only looking at things our way.
*scratches head* Know what I mean?

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by straightedge.73
Along with "GoodOleDave" we have member #2 of said Psy Ops. Why would anyone come onto a CT web site and talk smack about theories that are posted. Do we care if you believe? Nope. Are we suggesting it is absolute fact, without a doubt? No.

Of COURSE you conspiracy people are insisting that your conspiracy stories are the truth, how can you deny it? When someone posts statements like, "smoking gun" they're declaring their material to be irrefutable proof of conspiracy. When someone posts how everyone who disagrees with them are "suckered by gov't propaganda" it's a declaration that everything they know is right, and everything that other people know is wrong, whether you happen to agree with it or not.

In case the fact had escaped you...and apparently it has...the shooter in this case was every bit as thoroughly convinced of these conspiracies as the fanatics in this board are. You don't travel across the entire country and shoot people becuase you think there *might* be some conspiracy going on.

We are simply saying things don't line up. If you have a problem with that, speak to the 9/11 commission that ignored BLARING faults with their "investigation". The days of the JFK/Roswell/9-11 cover ups are over. We will state what we believe, we WILL reach out to those that we care about to speak our peace. If you don't like it, go elsewhere. Your opinion is neither warranted nor wanted. Ya feel me, Chief? Thanks. Please drive through.

Sorry Charlie, but freedom of speech goes both ways. You have every right to express your thoughts and noone is prohibiting you from doing so, but by the same token, we have every right to point out all the blatant flaws and inaccusacies in the material you post. You're not accusing people of stealing cookies out of the cookie jar, after all, you're accusing people of conspiring to murder 3,000 Americans, so you have to know your posts are goign to be inspected thoroughly.If you don't like it, then stop posting flaws and innacuracies. It ain't a trick question.

Really? I absolutely challenge you to show me ANYTHING I have posted that reflects ANYTHING about 9-11, minus what I have said to you in this thread. Go ahead. Check out the few posts I have posted and tell me what facts am I twisting? Knock yourself out, dude.

And...my name is Straightedge, not Charlie...do you even know where that phrase originated? I'm guessing not.

Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

"My movement" comes from my bowels.

I just want a new investigation, or for the government to definitively forbid one. Either will be as telling.

I never spoke for truthers, ever. They aren't a clear and present danger to anything, especially TBTB.

A new investigation would either indicate the WTC towers were or were not demolished. If it indicates the towers were not demolished then the truthers are not satisfied and it's time for another investigation. If it indicates that the towers were demolished then the debunkers are not satisfied and it's time for another investigation.

If the first 6 were tainted and are part of a coverup then won't the next 6 do the exact same thing?

Who would do the investigation?

Who would chose who does the investigation?

Originally posted by straightedge.73
Really? I absolutely challenge you to show me ANYTHING I have posted that reflects ANYTHING about 9-11, minus what I have said to you in this thread. Go ahead. Check out the few posts I have posted and tell me what facts am I twisting? Knock yourself out, dude.

Sorry, but I'm immune to such silly games. The moment you accused me of being involved in psy ops is the moment you've declared yourself as being part of the "gov't is out to murder us all" conspiracy camp.

I've looked at the statements you conspiracy people make here, and literally in every single case, the only reason the 9/11 commission "doesn't add up" as you put it is becuase the conspiracy people ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS deliberately embellish everything they touch to make it look like it doesn't add up. Silverstein's "pull it" statement, NORAD's, "stand down" order, "Bush's relative "being in charge of WTC security", flight 93 "landing in Ohio", the list of distortions, falsehoods, and information deliberately taken out of context you people are distributing goes on and on. There may be and probably are ommissions, but you people have shown NOTHING, NOTHING, that shows the material they did include is incorrect.

My original point still stands- that guy who tried to kill innocent bystanders did so because he believed in these conspiracy stories so intimately that they stopped becoming theories and started becoming facts. I am convinced the reason for this is specifially becuase of this deliberate disinformation campaign by these damned fool conspiracy web sites to get people all paranoid over shadows, and nothing you've posted shows me anythign to the contrary, least of all your quip about these "psy ops" boogeyman who are all out to get you.

And...my name is Straightedge, not Charlie...do you even know where that phrase originated? I'm guessing not.

You guess incorrectly. "Sorry Charlie" came from those old Starkist tuna commercials where a cartoon tuna kept getting rejected by Starkist with the message, "Sorry Charlie", and the phrase became a cultural icon, like "where's the beef", and "I didn't inhale".

If you have this need to build up your ego by attempting to lower mine, go right ahead, as I don't care. All I care about is whether anyone can show why anything I post here is incorrect.

reply to post by Soloist


And THAT was most certainly a threat. Law enforcement would not have the grounds to subpoena any information from this site. It takes a JUDGE to do that, not some podunk, on the take sheriff who is pissed that his donuts aren't ready on time.

Oh and PS. I come from a law enforcement family...specifically, a FEDERAL law enforcement family. Stop talking smack about crap you do not know about. Got me?

reply to post by GoodOlDave

I've looked at the statements you conspiracy people make here, and literally in every single case, the only reason the 9/11 commission "doesn't add up" as you put it is becuase the conspiracy people ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS deliberately embellish everything they touch to make it look like it doesn't add up.

Your comments about the Truthers are untrue. I guess Ken and Farmer are conspiracy theorist to!!! If you can read, Dave, check this out.

[color=gold]9/11 Commissioners Reveal the Truth: 9/11 Commission Report Was Based on False Testimony and Documents and is Almost Entirely Untrue

In John Farmer’s book: “[color=gold]The Ground Truth: The Story Behind America’s Defense on 9/11?, the author builds the inescapably convincing case that the official version… is almost entirely untrue…
The 9/11 Commission now tells us that the official version of 9/11 was based on [color=gold]false testimony and documents and is almost entirely untrue. The details of this massive cover-up are carefully outlined in a book by John Farmer, who was the Senior Counsel for the 9/11 Commission
Farmer, Dean of Rutger Universities’ School of Law and former Attorney General of New Jersey, was responsible for drafting the [color=gold]original flawed 9/11 report.
Does Farmer have cooperation and agreement from other members of the Commission? [color=gold]Yes. Did they say Bush ordered 9/11? [color=gold]No. Do they say that the 9/11 Commission was lied to by the FBI, CIA, Whitehouse and NORAD? [color=gold]Yes. Is there full documentary proof of this? [color=gold]Yes!

visibility911.com...
Not only does this prove you are wrong, but it goes to show how OS believers embellish garbage, and insult, and ridicule everyone who does not believe in the OS fairytales.

Silverstein's "pull it" statement, NORAD's, "stand down" order, "Bush's relative "being in charge of WTC security", flight 93 "landing in Ohio", the list of distortions, falsehoods, and information deliberately taken out of context you people are distributing goes on and on. There may be and probably are ommissions, but you people have shown NOTHING, NOTHING, that shows the material they did include is incorrect.

Like YOU, we are entitle to “our opinions” as well. The only [color=gold]falsehoods I have seen on ATS 911 threads, are people who deliberately support the OS lies with more proven lies.
None of the “OS believers” have ever proven the OS true? When challenge to present evidences, or sources to support the OS claims, many of you only respond by ridiculing, and insulting people who question you, and that is a “proven fact.”

More and more people do not believe the OS, because it lacks any “real sciences” and evidence.
The government has already proved themselves corrupt. Why should we believe what they have to tell us, when it has been proven they tell us lies most of the time?

Do you believe our government is not capable of lying?




[edit on 24-5-2010 by impressme]

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by straightedge.73
Really? I absolutely challenge you to show me ANYTHING I have posted that reflects ANYTHING about 9-11, minus what I have said to you in this thread. Go ahead. Check out the few posts I have posted and tell me what facts am I twisting? Knock yourself out, dude.

Sorry, but I'm immune to such silly games. The moment you accused me of being involved in psy ops is the moment you've declared yourself as being part of the "gov't is out to murder us all" conspiracy camp.

I've looked at the statements you conspiracy people make here, and literally in every single case, the only reason the 9/11 commission "doesn't add up" as you put it is becuase the conspiracy people ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS deliberately embellish everything they touch to make it look like it doesn't add up. Silverstein's "pull it" statement, NORAD's, "stand down" order, "Bush's relative "being in charge of WTC security", flight 93 "landing in Ohio", the list of distortions, falsehoods, and information deliberately taken out of context you people are distributing goes on and on. There may be and probably are ommissions, but you people have shown NOTHING, NOTHING, that shows the material they did include is incorrect.

My original point still stands- that guy who tried to kill innocent bystanders did so because he believed in these conspiracy stories so intimately that they stopped becoming theories and started becoming facts. I am convinced the reason for this is specifially becuase of this deliberate disinformation campaign by these damned fool conspiracy web sites to get people all paranoid over shadows, and nothing you've posted shows me anythign to the contrary, least of all your quip about these "psy ops" boogeyman who are all out to get you.

And...my name is Straightedge, not Charlie...do you even know where that phrase originated? I'm guessing not.

You guess incorrectly. "Sorry Charlie" came from those old Starkist tuna commercials where a cartoon tuna kept getting rejected by Starkist with the message, "Sorry Charlie", and the phrase became a cultural icon, like "where's the beef", and "I didn't inhale".

If you have this need to build up your ego by attempting to lower mine, go right ahead, as I don't care. All I care about is whether anyone can show why anything I post here is incorrect.

Oh. It's my pleasure, Dave.

First. The remark about talking up the Silverstein comment regarding "pulling" building 7 can be found here, said BY Silverstein:
www.youtube.com... unless of course you are suggesting that we can't trust what he says by his OWN admission. So much for "NOTHING NOTHING".
Second, the "silly games" you refer to was actually a question that you have now, refused to answer for the second time. Which tells me and- will tell just about anyone whom is an ATS regular the real truth by your repeated attempts (weak ones at that) to provide disinformation on this site. Anyone who doesn't believe that can just look at EVERY SINGLE POST you have put on this web site.
Third, by the NORAD stand down order, you have either misquoted someone for the sake of posting yet another lame attack of the individuals on this site or you just aren't aware of Operation Northern Vigilance. Which was the war game that was taking place during the attacks on September 11, 2001. That information can be found here:
en.wikipedia.org...
We know there was an exercise bc it was on NORAD'S TAPES, dude. You can find the confirmation, here:
www.vanityfair.com... where they JOKE about the exercise being on hold. It's about half way down the page.
Fourth, Dave, my IQ is about 160. I don't play games and I'm tired of yours. Get a grip, get a girlfriend and find something constructive to do.

Moreover Dave, you continue to suggest that what is said on this web site is responsible for the actions of one crazy individual. Perhaps Wesley Snipes should be blamed for the guy who crashed his airplane into the IRS building...I mean, there really IS NO legal statute that says we must pay taxes, right? So by Snipes using that as a defense, that pushed that guy to do something insane, correct? Let me guess...you are the same guy that thinks that ALL Arabic individuals are terrorists, right? Just like all "Conspiracy Theorists" are responsible for a crazy person's actions. That's just BS, dude. There are crazy people everywhere, who do things because the other personality told them to, or the obsessions were too much but to blame an entire group of seemingly intelligent individuals for the actions of ONE is just ignorant and stupid. This thread is ignorant and stupid, by the way. You came here to stir the pot only this time, you found someone who will go toe to toe with you and not even hesitate to pull the trigger. OH MY GOD. Did I threaten you? No Dave, I mean mentally. Try to keep up with me dude and while you do, keep talking trash and I will keep answering with LOGIC and PROVEN FACTS. Get me? Got me? Understand me? Do I need to slow down for you? You let me know. I can draw you a diagram, if need be.
But first, make sure you grab your crayons so I can spoon feed you the TRUTH. Get a clue, Dave. Your tactics, your lame excuse for a thread? Is tiresome and OLD.

So now that I have answered you, tell us. Does the NSA pay you salary or by each post? It's a simple question.