An appeal from a cop...

Originally posted by MBF
But why did she feel that she need to run over him? Was he being overbearing? Was he trying to do something that he shouldn't have? I don't know. She could have been a bad person that was looking at a long prison sentence if she was caught...I don't know. She did damage property, and mine was part of it. She did injure people and I could have been killed. She was NOT headed for a school zone, she had just gone through it. The school zone sign was about 100ft from where she hit me. They knew who she was, they could have just caught her another way rather than putting peoples lives in danger by trying to run her down. They have her tag number, unless the car is stolen, it is easy for them to look her up.

...could they have handled it differently?... maybe - maybe not... we dont have the info they had... why did she do what she did?... maybe that'll come out in later reports but, regardless, she tried to kill people... so, i'm not about to go looking for excuses for her behavior...

...glad you're okay... take care...

Any comments on the comments OP?

reply to post by JWH44


Well, I will start by saying that I despise generalizations. BUT, having said that, there are quite a few disturbed individuals in the law enforcement community. Just earlier tonight, I saw video of the protesters here in cali, and one, of a 5-foot-nothing barely 100lbs. college student being dragged down the street by two police men. Whenever I see videos of protesters getting beaten like rabid dogs it kinda gets to me, call me sentimental. I am under no illusion here. I realize the service that some police provide, without the police, I am not sure what kind of world we would live it at the moment. But so too do I realize that there are two kinds of people attracted to law enforcement. Like any position of power over your fellow man. The first type is the relatively decent individual that probably has some kind of actual desire to do some good. The second type is the kind of person that looks at law-enforcement and salivates over the things that they can 'get away with' as a cop.

I used to respect the police. Until I was forcibly evicted from my home by the police because my landlord fraudulently claimed that he didn't know that I was living there. Being evicted didn't really bother me. The landlord being an utterly predictable douche out to cover his own ass didn't really bother me. It was the attitudes of the officers that did it. I can only describe the look on the one officers face as orgasmic, as he stood by and watched whilst me and mine grabbed what few things we were allowed to, and then marched off the premises. I will never forget that look, or how him and his police buddy laughed at us as we left.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that all police are bad, remember, I detest generalizations. I believe that individual peoples stand on their own two feet, and should be recognized as such. But,think of it this way, as an animal, I tend to react instinctively. You put on a uniform and beat a dog, most likely, that dog will react a certain way to anyone wearing said uniform. It is a battle of my reason versus my instinct when it comes to law enforcement. Many times I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. I try not to pass judgment at all, unless the evidence is there. But don't ask for my respect. Because respect, like trust, is to be earned, not demanded. I respect no one for free, LEO or otherwise.

In the end, I think that cops need to take a look at the way things are run. I know that certain things are 'overlooked' when it comes to officers committing crimes. Abuses are ignored. People are let off with a warning. All because everyone is in the same club, and no one wants to look like a snitch to the other boys in blue. I believe that the police should hold themselves to a higher standard. Unfortunately that just doesn't happen that often. I like the idea of the police. I applaud the efforts of those men and women who go out there and perform an honest days work, dealing with everything police have to deal with. People seem to dislike the police, everyone has heard the insults and derogatory BS. But those self-same peoples tend to scream and holler the loudest when the actually need the police. It's unfair, but something that I think law-enforcement people need to understand and accept.

I tend to dislike the police bashing threads myself. Mostly because it is like a cop-haters convention in those threads. Then again, that's humanity for you. You have to get into law-enforcement the same way you do with the military, with open eyes. The reality of the world is, that you will probably never be accepted with open arms. Even your friends may look at you differently. That badge marks you as different, and that's something that you'll probably never be completely rid of. That's not counting the big target that it paints on your back. I disparage the cop haters for being the sheep that they are, and for letting their instincts guide them so blindly, but it isn't like they exist in a vacuum. I have no eloquent quotes or anything for ending this, so I will just say that: If you are one of those peoples that tries to do your job with a good heart, then bravo. If your not, well then, I hope you don't give them enough rope to hang you.

Chrono

This really is quite simple. To have respect for authority, it has to be earned.

Over here if you try to kill a cop in duty it is automatically seen as an attempted murder, say like trying to drive over one even by accident.

This would be all good and nice, if the same thing applied the other way around. A officer in duty who committed crimes would be punished much harder then a civilian committing the same crimes.

We recently had a case where a department chief aged 40-something lured a 16 YO girl who had been chased and was scared to come up to his apartment for safety, by showing his badge. He then drugged her and raped her, and took child pornography pictures. He did not even go to jail, and was only fired - he can seek job as a chief in another district right away. It stirred up a nationwide debate about what actually is right and what is wrong.


When you visit places where cops actually are respected, you realize how nice this world would be if that was the case everywhere. I have been to Holland, and there the cops are actually human beings without any inhumane rights granted. They cannot arbitarily stop you and search your pockets. They cannot drag you away for being vocally offensive against them; heck, its a civil right to speak freely. But when you actually do something actually criminal, they take you and you WILL be punished.

Authority and respect.

[edit on 3/5/2010 by above]

"As a supervisor, I have been in the unfortunate position to take action against an employee that violated a subjects [sic] civil rights."


Therein lies your answer right there. Even though you believe "most" law enforcement personel are stand-up good people and you see yourself as one (and I suspect you probably are), you still eminate a seething, condescending attitude about the CITIZENS you have to deal with. WTF is a "subject?" A rhetorical question. Your subjectivity about law enforcement is equally myopic. You want sympathy from the very same people you refer to as "subjects," "offenders," etc. notwithstanding their supposed presumption of innocence.

And unlike other segments of fallible society that CITIZENS have to deal with, most do not have to worry about their teachers, loan officers, and accountants, etc. depriving them of their liberty or materially affecting their lives with the barrel of a gun or a "non-lethal" taser nowadays.

My first encounter with a "stand-up" law enforcement officer was as a nineteen year-old victim of an auto accident where my 18 year-old newlywed wife was killed by a drunken F%$#-HEAD who just happened to live next door to one of the sheriff's deputies who responded to the accident. The deputy along with his THUG contemporaries covered up the entire incident and simply issued the guy a cititation for failure to yield at a stop sign. Absolute unmitigated corrupt B.S.

My subsequent encounters with law enforcement though infrequent and nowhere near a DESPICABLE as the example I've cited, have been far from positive with one exception and that was a trooper who gave me a ride to get some fuel. Moreover, I have seen the entire law enforcement profession become exponentially worse in their behavior and "thuggery," if you will. I am disgusted when I think how many incidents are never reported where citizens are utterly destroyed by your "defic" jack-booted counterparts. Go appeal to Randy Weaver with your "wellaways me" diatribe!

Please. Go cry somewhere else, buddy. You SOBs get ZERO sympathy or respect from me.

Originally posted by Snarf


Don't get mad at me when i bust your ass for doing so.

When you grow up - you have to accept responsibility for your own actions.



Be frustrated all you want. Just realize that i don't care. And neither do my fellow officers.

We didn't force you to break the law.


[edit on 4-3-2010 by Snarf]

I'll try not to sound like an asshole when I say this...Everything you just said there can be turned around. Don't get mad at us when we start coming for the Leo's that break the law. Don't get mad or sad when one of your fellow officers are gunned down because they tried to bully the wrong person. Don't get mad at the numerous cops laying in the streets when they decide to try and break up the wrong group of protesters with their cowardly and pushy tactics. Since you and your fellow officers have absolutely no interest in policing yourselves, we can do it for you. You can whine and cry all you want...Just realize that I don't care, and neither do my fellow Americans. We didn't force you to become a cop, or force you to break the law that is suppose to be upheld by you, or force you to stay silent and turn a blind eye to those fellow officers of yours that are breaking the law.

Want to change our view on cops? Start being cops and stop acting like the neighborhood bullies that think they own the streets and answer to no one.

Stop with the us vs. them mentality, you ARE us! Stop treating everyone you come into contact with as a criminal and grilling them and being as nosy as can be to try and find something to charge them with.

I live in a small town, I've dealt with the small town cop crap. A little searching on ATS can see some of my post of what has happened in my town that the cops here have gotten away with(two biggest are statutory rape and murder and both officers are still on the force). There was one good cop in this town and he quit due to all the BS in the department. There's a good ole boy club in my town and it's a private club full of cops, from retired cops that were on the force when I was a kid to rookies. The hatred for the cops here is genuine and we have a damn good reason for it. So much so that no cops are allowed(by their chief) in any of the bars in this town except their private club. Guess the chief got tired of his officers getting the hell beat out of them.

Only good thing out of it is my girlfriend bar tends at the club and we haven't had a ticket or been pulled over the whole time she's been there, and I know for a fact we didn't have brake lights on our van for at least 6 months. Cops would follow us through town and never pull us over because they knew who owned the van. Now neither one of us are cops and we got away with that..imagine what they let each other get away with. You can imagine it..I already know the things they've done.

reply to post by Simon_Boudreaux


Too true, starred.
^5

You really cannot compare other professions to the Law enforcement profession. The law enforcement profession is in class all by itself. There is nothing to compare it to period.

I do respect the police officers and federal officers. I have assisted many federal officers in my career retiring a field grade Army officer of LTC. I have to say they are a vast amount of good law enforcement officers out there than bad. But the bad ones always stick out. All law enforcement officers I believe start with their brains in the right place. Somewhere along the way in their law enforcement career, some just lose perspective on their job . I have it seen happen time and time again. I’ve known two federal officers and one city cop personally . Of the three of them one was charged with false imprisonment. The other officer became a heavy drinker and it comprised his ability to do his job correctly, though still has job in a lesser aspect of it only after I just about forced him to get help.
The third is an outstanding officer and still is to this day.

Now , what I do know is that two of these officers were very heavily overworked and had many family problems , both also going though divorces. The divorce rate is high in the law enforcement profession. This seems to be a common ground among Law enforcement officers that have many years on the force or Federal Service. City officers take the most abuse of the profession; their mission changes by the hour.

There seems be a lack when to know and how to seek help. Law enforcement jobs , Family problems, Divorce. Job abuse from either perspective. etc. All are parallel to each other in the profession. So as a Army MD explained at a seminar. The officers that fall through the cracks don’t seem to get the proper help until it’s too late and their commanders don’t recognize their behavior only their job performance; Which can be very hard to differ and spot the warnings. Much more training is needed in this profession from a psychological standpoint among peers and commanders to spot the red flags.

It's a tough job people , it's not coffee and doughnuts

reply to post by pieman


I was going to say the exact same thing. The police have the attitude that they are above the general public. That they are our managers. And the OP proves that he is not any different.

Here is something that happened to me:

I'm driving down the highway. I'm doing about 95 in an 80 KM/H (not MPH) and this crazy guy pulls up beside me waving his arms wildly. I'm saying to myself, "What's going on?" Turns out it was a cop in an unmarked car trying to pull me over. He had this dinky red light that was hard to see. So, I didn't stop right away because I couldn't tell he was a cop. So, finally I stop and he comes up to my window and he reaches through the window, undoes my seatbelt, opens the door and drags me out! I'm like WTF!

He throws me in the back of his car while he runs my license and ownership. And all this scene and commotion for what? Pulling me over for speeding. He didn't even give me the ticket. He was real pissed that I didn't stop right away though.

So my motto is keep your head down and try not to piss off any cops.

[edit on 5-3-2010 by TheComte]

I wish that the majority of Police Officers were Good.

I am certain that a reasonable proportion of them are good, honest, decent and fantastic people......but that is all I believe.

The 'Lucifer Effect' on people means that in any given situation only 1 in 10 people who have control or power in a situation will behave in a good and decent way.

This statistic would imply that 90% of law enforcers are NOT going to behave 'properly'.

Now I'm just an ordinary 'nobody' with very little experience of the Police.

EXCEPT, we have a few police officers in our family and I would NOT like to be arrested by any of these. Beating vulnerable people up 'ie those handcuffed' is a big joke to them.

Limited experience with police officers on duty has led me to believe that l ying is endemic among them and they will make an arrest simply to pump up their 'brownie point chart' to appear that they are actually doing some useful work.

Now that is just my experience.

But this has led me to always advise my children to NEVER go to the Police for help! Never believe anything a Police officer says and if you see one......CROSS THE STREET immeadiately as they are MORE dangerous than any 'hoody gang' and certainly more unpredictable.

Now if a Nobody like me, with limited experience of the police feels it essential to behave in this manner, what do you think people who have had the misfortune to have real dealings with the police feel like?

If the OP feels that people don't respect his profession enough, then perhaps he aught to consider whether he would protect a member of the general public from 'bad behaviour' from a fellow officer.

Would he report a fellow officer who mistreated a member of the public?

I would like to suggest here that his loyalties would like with his Police 'friends' and to hell with the rest of us.

This is why the Police cannot be trusted.

No one said there weren't good cops, and cops that do the right thing and turn in the crooked cops.

But it is so rare that Hollywood feels they need to make a movie about it every time it happens.

The problem with many "civilians" view of law enforcement has multiple origins. There are enough reasons to point fingers in all directions.
The most significant reasons I have noticed:
1. The war on drugs: It is a war on our families. Drug use is despicable, however; it has been declared a war just like in prohibition.
2. There is a significant problem with the way law enforcement officers fail to obey the Constitution and observe fundamental civil rights. I cannot watch an episode of "COPS" because they violate the rights of someone about every five minutes. I don't think they understand the Constitution.
3. It is said that a cops job is stressful. Well, maybe so at times in a big city or in high crime areas...but it does not seem to matter whether they are in NY City or Podunk Arkansas, they still act like asses the majority of the time.
I served 3 yrs in the Vietnam War. I was in Special Forces. The operations were Top Secret. You might say that it got a little stressful on a six man team inside a denied area when you were surrounded by hundreds of bad guys. That did not make us act like ass____s to other people when the shooting stopped.
I would dare say that we saw more violent action in a month than 99.999% of cops do in an entire career.
4. I have seen cops cover-up crimes committed by other cops time and again. I once proved to the FBI that the local cops were lying about a situation that caused the death of an innocent 19 yr old kid. The FBI covered it up and would not release the report.
5. How many times have you heard of a cop pulling over another cop and letting them go? That is just wrong.
6. When a cop is caught doing something illegal, they rarely go to jail. They likely get suspended with pay for months, very little information is given to the press and they get off easy. If it were a civilian, he would be booked and spend time in jail, have an exceedingly long list of bogus charges piled up just to intimidate him and he would be interrogated for hours....Then they would do their best to convict him in the news media.
This is just touching the tip of the iceberg.

It is very true that there are many, many scum bags out there that some cops have to deal with every day. They have a tough job. Cops are indispensable. We would live in huge Dodge Cities before Marshal Dillon if it weren't for cops.
When you find a good cop, they are as good as gold and a true asset to the community. The problem is that they are few and far between.
Something tells me that the training cops get is just not like it should be.

Originally posted by SJE98

It's a tough job people , it's not coffee and doughnuts

Try working overnights at a gas station. I've been through things at my job most cops have never had to face. I've had guns shoved in my face while being robbed, had knives pulled on me for not selling beer after hours, had attempts to run me over while writing down plate numbers of drive offs or people I caught stealing. had bats swung at me, spit at, you name it.

There are jobs just as tough, just as dangerous, I'm still here, still alive, and I didn't have a gun, tazer, pepper spray, or back up.

[edit on 5-3-2010 by Simon_Boudreaux]

[edit on 5-3-2010 by Simon_Boudreaux]

reply to post by TheComte


The part of your story that ends with, do not try to piss off the cops,

MAKES ME SICK

When we as citizens, get the attitude that we are AFRAID of what a cop MIGHT do, when they confront us, IT IS LONG PAST TIME TO REMAKE THE SYSTEM!

I am sorry, # THAT!

Cops and Criminals should be AFRAID of the CITIZENS, not the OTHER way around!

reply to post by endisnighe


Well, I'm sorry. But I'm just one guy. And I know no other citizens are going to jump in and help me. And that's a fact, jack.

The cop is just going to call for back up and then what? I'm screwed big time.

You can go around pissing off cops if you want. More power to you.

reply to post by TheComte


Your right not to want to, they can set out to literally kill your life, and your family in your home if they do not like you.

I just speak out against them, as they have in effect already murdered my life.

But people should be careful speaking about them, if you want to live a life, as they are more deadly than any street gang.

The technologies today mean they can target you and destroy your life forever.

Plus you never need to commit a crime, they just make it up. They think of all sorts of ways to destroy you.

Originally posted by Acidtastic
Now, whilst I do agree to a certain extent with the OP, he's also got to aknowlage the fact that there is a large proportion of the force who are on a blatent power trip. it's more than a few bad apples too. Yes, there are good cops out there, but IME they are a dieing breed. Take protests that the police kick trouble off at (and they do start it 99% of the time with draconian "crowd control") That is whole forces, working together as one, to beat the crap out civillians. now,if a copper thinks that it's wrong to bash innocent people who need a wee cos they've been in a kettle for the last 5 hours, but does it anyway, what kind of a man is he? If people say that it's only a few, how come you get hundreds and hundreds of them kicking lumps out of people for the luls? I'm sorry if you're one of the good cops out there, but your entire institution is rotten to the core.

You wanna get all frumpy cos people hate bad cops and tar the whole force with the same name? Well I'm sorry, but that, I believe you cops sometimes call "racial profiling" get used to it, we have to. And it's a small price to pay for all those cops who beat, harrass and even kill the people that they're supposed to be "keeping the peace" with.

I love it. You posters that paint with this all encompassing brush always if the subject is turned to something you believe in cry fowl. They are all bad and only a hand full of them are good...really. I think they have a tuff job and when you see them for the most part you are doing something wrong to begin with. And instead of owning up to it you do like most people in this day and age and pass the blame. Cops are people and so are firefighters and FBI agents and so on...


To be very honest when did cops really change? It was around the time the Blacks were forming into gangs in the US. And I know it's not politically correct but they don't play by the same rules as alot of other criminals like the mafia. They are more like animals and will even eat each other if given the chance it is a sad cultural statement to make but it is also true. And it has nothing to with color but what they put value in.


So what did the cops have to do? They had to be alot less of peace keepers and more on the enforcement side. I bet if you if the black gang culture went away we would see a return to peace keeping rather than enforcement.

It is so SILLY to see upper class white people in high society talking about how great the police are, like they've ever had to deal with them.

It's a joke how soft this place can get. Of course there are some good cops, there are even some great cops out there, but they're the few not the majority. The majority are the ones putting guns in people's faces, tazing people for absolutely no reason, beating people with clubs because they're angry at life, and even shooting people. Wait until a cop shoots somebody you know or love for having the wrong skin and "being in the wrong place at the wrong time". Well if OUR american streets are the wrong place while you're conducting your murderous police business then find another country to do your business in .

A POLICE FORCE IS NECESSARY, WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A GANG.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth

I love it. You posters that paint with this all encompassing brush always if the subject is turned to something you believe in cry fowl. They are all bad and only a hand full of them are good...really. I think they have a tuff job and when you see them for the most part you are doing something wrong to begin with. And instead of owning up to it you do like most people in this day and age and pass the blame. Cops are people and so are firefighters and FBI agents and so on...

Cops paint all of us as criminals or suspects so why is it ok for them but not us? And for the most part when I see cops in my town it's in passing. If it's a situation that calls for conversation with them it's probably at one of their checkpoints they like to do to make sure you're all legal and insured or after work and running into all of them at BP flirting with the female cashier instead of being out looking for drunk drivers. But oh don't say anything to them or it pisses them off, they claim they get breaks too. Wish my break was a few hours long like theirs.

To be very honest when did cops really change? It was around the time the Blacks were forming into gangs in the US. And I know it's not politically correct but they don't play by the same rules as alot of other criminals like the mafia. They are more like animals and will even eat each other if given the chance it is a sad cultural statement to make but it is also true. And it has nothing to with color but what they put value in.

I would have to say it was more around the time of the Watts riots and the Vietnam protests. The government realized they needed a police force that was more tactical and bullish instead of the friendly foot patrolling officers all the neighborhood kids looked up to.

So what did the cops have to do? They had to be alot less of peace keepers and more on the enforcement side. I bet if you if the black gang culture went away we would see a return to peace keeping rather than enforcement.

I bet we wouldn't.