An appeal from a cop...

Response to the OP.

First thought.I dont believe you concerning your identity.

Second. If you were who you say you are, why would you care what anyone ath ATS thinks or says, unless you were looking for something speciffic and are willing to barter for that intel. You must have 100% faith in your security or you are suicidal. And in either case that doesnt sound like the stuff of a LEO Supervisor at the federal level. If there were people here who really disliked cops as much as they say they do(and yes Ive read posts here that state plain and simple that ANY LEO is a physical target) , then you just jeapordized evryone you know. What I would like to know is ...why? What are you looking for? Is this post you have written a directive from your supervisor? It would have to be , otherwise you have just compromised a heck of alot.
Unless you are under duress. Are you?
An appeal from a cop'...sounds kind of like a backwards threat to me. If I were on the payroll, I sure as hell wouldnt be at ATS unless it was on VERY official buisness. And if you are, I dont like your collaborative style or the recklessness youve displayed by coming here. You could have said anything...tell us about your childhood fears, your current fears, hell, be emotional just desire to learn.


Those pictures you speak of. If they are on a network, they arent secure, and you may as well post them, and send them via e-mail as propoganda for whatever your objective is.

According to alot of material Ive read here, theres no way Id come out and tell the WORLD of ATS what you did. Both in text and digitally.
Im disheartened as well. ATS gives birth to knowledge and understanding. (at least it has for me) I think you should be fired for compromising the lives of your fellow officers.
I guess Im asking "Dont you have anything better to do?"

Thats all IF I believed you in the first place....ROGER?

Up until this point I could not pin-point the definition of 'troll'. Thanks to this post I now have a better understanding of the word and its contextual meaning concerning ATS. Thank you.

Note all of this is coming from a wannabe that never will be. Thats me.
(id say the contents of this post paints a clear picture as to why.)I have a disability that prevents me from being a cop..its called I have zero tolerance for BS-itis. And I can spot it a million miles away.
Laters



[edit on 5-3-2010 by psyko45]

[edit on 5-3-2010 by psyko45]

Originally posted by Hedera Helix
reply to post by Asherah

 

This was an extremely eloquent post... and has got to be THE most important post I have ever read since being a member at ATS. I have given you a star. I would have given you a 1000 stars had it been within my power to do so. Thank you... Thank you... Thank you... For speaking out and for sharing your experiences. I am forever in your debt. God Bless.

Not to deflate the epiphany...you've been a member less than 4 weeks?!

Not to diminish Asherah's experience...it's an anecdote from one person.

This thread is full of anecdotal police hatred and criticism. The negative generalising of a total occupation is just ridiculous. It's just about forgiveable for our younger members to be hostile about police. Older members should wise up a little. Human nature in society created a need for laws. Laws are pointless without law enforcement. Police are a necessity for society....like it or not.

Originally posted by 11118
Let us all back up to the very significant fact that police officers oppress people against their FREE WILL this is extremely important as it has karmic effects on the people who do so because it is a friction against the natural order of the Universe. Much like you are seeing everyday.

[edit on 5-3-2010 by 11118]

there was an incident in sweden where a fellow saw to older men "harrassing" two 12 year olds, he thougth that they where civilian undercover ticket inpectors (police) and him being a blog writer about wasted tax money and miss use of police resources took a few pictures of the incident, to make a long story short the officers threatened with drug tests and a possible stay over night visit at the local station if he did not remove the pictures, he removed the pictures and was let go, he sent his hd image to italy and recovered pictures and a video that was recording during the incident , now the truoble is that in sweden its legal to take pictures like this fellow did ..

just an example but there you had robbery of free will if you want to call it that ,

point is he filed a complaint and they ll probobly loose their jobs for not understanding that blackmail or extortion is illegal ,

the law is the same for everyone,


whats even more absurd in the aspect of law is that the age when the law acturly abides to you in sweden is if i recall correctly 15 , so one can but wonder what to fully grown men was doing in the first place "out of their juridiction" or how you say it ,

any ways ,
the law is the same for everyone , police men/women just take an oath that they will show good conduct and in more or less words be a civilian citizen ,
.......

reply to post by JWH44


I appreciate this appeal. It is well put. I know that there will still be those that will simply ignore this as an attempt by the 'man' to lull us into a trap of some kind. I have always tried to represent the 'right' side when I have participated in the 'cop' threads. There have been times when I was completely outraged by some of the actions in a video. The tackling, kicking, punching and so on of the victims/perps was a bit excessive. Yet, in many of those cases we were not privvy to what took place beforehand.

Regardless, I want to say this one important fact about both sides. It all boils down to respect. If the average citizen would simply take the time to present a display of respect to an officer when they come into contact then I can virtually guarantee that that encounter will end on a good note. You may still get a ticket if you were speeding excessively and so on but you won't get anything else.

The same goes for the officer. If they take the time to show some respect to the people that they are serving then those people will return it in turn. It's a two way street trying to provide safety for all involved in this country.

As was stated, there will always be the bad eggs on both sides. We can't help that.

reply to post by Kandinsky


"The negative generalising of a total occupation is just ridiculous. It's just about forgiveable for our younger members to be hostile about police. Older members should wise up a little. Human nature in society created a need for laws. Laws are pointless without law enforcement. Police are a necessity for society....like it or not."

You may be a veteran poster, but for sure you do not get it. Perception IS reality. I am 45. I am ex-military. I have NEVER been in trouble with the law. I earn a good living. I don't do drugs, don't smoke, and very seldom drink anymore. I have a happy family life with children in gifted school programs. I grew up in an idealic childhood where kids played, climbed trees, played ball and trusted the police. I also fear the police and believe a huge majority of them to be either thugs or protectors of thugs.

Do you see anything wrong with this picture? How is it that Joe-average, law-abiding citizen like me has such a deep distrust of modern American cops?

Police were necessary in society also years ago, but the police were different then. The necessity of law enforcement does not in any way justify or correlate to a need to be as law enforcement today is in most localities and definitely cities and suburbs.

You people can discount it all you want, you can say they are not bad apples all you want. But bad apples get tossed from the barrel. Bad cops stay on the job polluting the public goodwill and hurting people -- far greater threats than bad guys becuase they have badges and protectors in their peers and the courts -- and all their cop buddies cover for them until it just becomes too obvious. Had they the stones to cut them from the team early, maybe even lock them up, then maybe people like me would start to think differently.

It is so funny, I can't tell you how many times I have said hello to a police officer, only to met with a glare. No, no sympathy from me. You as police administrators actively WANT and RECRUIT and PROMOTE the nastiest among us. The truly decent cop leaves his job before he falls prey to the rampant cynicism and occasional outright criminality of his peers.

I agree, the biggest part of the problem are the number of laws that have to be enforced...when did it become necessary to place 50,000 laws (made it up, but you get the picture) to govern the people of this country?

[edit on 3/4/2010 by Everwatcher33] [/quote


This is my first post here on ATS. Very intriguing site by the way. Overall, I agree with the OP, but everwatcher makes a very good point. The ridiculous drug laws, traffic violations, felonies, misdemeanors are all too much for one man to handle and interpret without making mistakes or simply taking advantage of those laws. The problem is not the cop, it is the system they are placed in. In a system where they must constantly react to negativity, there are bound to be problems. By giving them the responsibility to enforce so many laws, our lawmakers are giving them too much power, and I know that power often breeds corruption. Cops are you and me, our neighbors. Heck, they could be one of our children some day.

reply to post by Asherah


Although I don't share the same 'awe' of your post as someone who later on claimed it was the 'most important post' they have ever read on this site, I do feel for you. Your situation is a very sad one. I won't begin to claim that it doesn't happen often because it does. You see, metropolis areas are notorious for higher crime rates. This in turn creates a much higher stress rate for the officers in those areas. It does NOT justify their mistreatment of people in the least though.

But you must understand the true intent of the OP. Not once did they claim that 'bad eggs' are not in service. In fact the OP agreed that they are present. You ran into a few. I believe you will run into more of these 'bad eggs' in larger cities than you would elsewhere.

Unfortunately being of a minority doesn't help much either with the bad rep tag that has been placed on many minorities in larger cities. Much of that is a justified tag but as the OP points out, there are bad eggs in all parts of society. All races and all cultures have bad people. Thus the minorities get that tag and officers, who are human too, will have that fear with them when they pull people over.

But if we were to break it down by the numbers it would turn out that a small minority of officers are actually crooked. I moved from a metropolis (Seattle area) to a backwoodsy kind of area (NW Ohio) and I have noticed a big change in the attitude of the officers. I haven't been pulled over often but I have called and given testimony on scene to many over the years. In the larger city I would always notice that the officers were more on edge (not freaked out or anything like that but less smiles and more of a serious approach) than in Ohio. Here I have been pulled over a couple times for going a 'little' over the speed limit (okay, I was speeding). Each time they approach they are smiling.

So, without taking away from your experiences I am simply asking what the OP is asking. Please do not place ALL cops under the same umbrella. The people that become officers generally do so because they want to serve. They want to help. And MOST of them do that and do it well.

reply to post by dariousg


"The tackling, kicking, punching and so on of the victims/perps was a bit excessive. Yet, in many of those cases we were not privvy to what took place beforehand."

OP, you still just don't get it, do you? A "bit excessive"??!! How about totally unf'ing necessary. At that point the suspect is completely overwhelmed in numbers. None of the exhibited force was necessary, but instead was retribution while the getting was good. (Cops know that they can do most anything during the arrest and just chalk it up to procedure.)

You purport to be one of the one of the good cops, but listen to yourself making excuses and pretending like the violence was somehow justified. You speak of our not knowing what preceded the video. Are you kidding me? So every action deserves retribution, swift and immediate. Are you the damned judge and jury now too? Poor, abused cops, their adrenaline was just peaking! Are you professionals or not?

The fact you'd dare to say what I quoted from you and think that perfectly acceptable from one who thinks he is the good cop, shows EXACTLY how core the problem is. Look in the mirror, man. For humanity's sake!

I usually agree with cops, and I give them the benefit of the doubt when I see a video showing them using force.. however.. I have to say, the level of abuse among officers is incredibly high, too high, but that's not even the problem:

The PROBLEM .. is when an officer DOES do something wrong NOTHING is ever done about it.. for instance here in Portland a cop recently shot an unarmed man, in killing him .. no discipline on the cop, he was back on the force in a few days terrorizing another part of town. The Cities show no shame when it comes to their officers excessively tasing, beating, roughing up, shooting, killing, maiming, or what have you.

So no .. it's not at all that all cops are bad cops. It's that good cops don't stand up to bad cops. It's because the cities condone the bad cops. It's because we see the bad cops more than the good cops. It's because 9 out of 10 who have a run in with a cop get the feeling that the cop was a thug, a prick doing their best to give them a hard time.

I don't even like talking to cops any more. Their attitude in general piss me off, as if they elevate themselves to some higher level above the "citizens".

And even you.. typing this thread for what purpose? You say your a supervisor, yet when a cop goes astray and beats a little old woman, tases a kid, or shoots an unarmed man.. who lets them off the hook? Who covers for them? The SUPERVISORS.

reply to post by pajoly


???

And I mis-quoted you how? Did I even respond to you?

I'm NOT the OP on this thread. I have simply replied once to the OP and then to someone's experience.

I'm not an officer of the law. I am a public resident of this nation that understands the TRUE need for law enforcement as well as laws.

Do I think the system is perfect? No. Far from it actually. I think that the laws have become so convoluted over the decades that there is simply too much for law enforcement to understand and keep in mind. That goes to the politicians.

Anyways, your stance based on your age and life is fine. We find ourselves in VERY similar situations from what you have described. Yet with me living in a city like Seattle and now in small town U.S.A. I have yet to experience this horribly negative cop that you and many others seem to believe that ALL or many officers are. We have been on this planet for nearly the same amount of time. I too was in the military. I too have very gifted kids (which I simply don't get where that comes into this discussion at all) and on and on.

So when you are so caught up in your EMOTIONAL rant against the police that you don't even realize that I am NOT the OP of this thread and have NOT replied to any of your posts, I begin to wonder where the motivation comes from.

You know, I have had many people refuse to return a smile that I give them. Some officers too.

As for my statement about excessive force. I never said I accepted it. You simply JUMPED TO THAT CONCLUSION on your own my friend.

If you would take the time and research my posts on the many cop threads you would see a fairly balanced approach to this topic from me. You would see me tearing into some officers that were just OVER the top in their treatment of the victim/perp. Regardless of what may or may not have happened before the attack began. But again, on many of those videos we are only shown the actual terrible attack and not any of the material leading up to it. Why is that? Well, because in some cases it may show that the person aggitated the officer into that sort of response.

And for you to simply state that these people get away with it because of their shield is a weak argument. Again, take the time to RESEARCH this before you start ranting. Because all officer disciplinary actions (or that there was disciplinary actions) are public records. Just take a look at how many officers have been removed from service, sent to prison, and on and on. It happens. But you are under an assumption that they just get away with it and life goes on.

I feel that there is something more to your story with the police than you are wanting to share. If you have had some confrontations with the police I am wondering if you are being honest with us and yourself if indeed you were completely innocent. Just stating that 'jump to conclusion' based on nothing at all other than your emotional replies as you did to my post.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

The PROBLEM .. is when an officer DOES do something wrong NOTHING is ever done about it.. for instance here in Portland a cop recently shot an unarmed man, in killing him .. no discipline on the cop, he was back on the force in a few days terrorizing another part of town. The Cities show no shame when it comes to their officers excessively tasing, beating, roughing up, shooting, killing, maiming, or what have you.

I will tell you what I told another poster. Do your research on the statement you just made. You are claiming that NOTHING is ever done. Well, nothing may not have been done in the case you are referring to but if you take the time to do the research you will see thousands of cases of officer disciplines throughout EVERY single year. Many firings and on and on.

Are their bad cops? Yes. But they don't always get away with their illegal actions. In many cases they just don't.

reply to post by andy1033


Police State America


The new corporate police state
What
ever happened to
protect and serve
Just wait till your local law enforcement agency is privatized and becomes a corporate entity

While I respect the work intended for policemen and policewomen, I cannot with any honor at all, say that I like them. I have never been to prison, nor in jail. Someone I knew is no longer here because of a specific person with the friendly neighborhood attitude of: "I stopped that s-o-b!"

And the proud 'policeman' got away with it and life has to go on for the persons spouse, and children, and friends. But that's ok because the policeman, and I use that word lightly,
did his job.

No, there will not be any friendly hugs to any police man/woman from me. If all someone has seen is the bad side of police, how can any policeman or policewoman ask for anything on the lines of respect?

Yes, I respect the work they are supposed to be doing, and I respect the ones that may be trying to do right, but quite frankly, I haven't seen either being accomplished at least not in the areas I've lived in the past. As it would be a wonderous world to have all children behave because friendly policeman/woman is making the world a safe place to live in, the reality is somewhat different.

I do not hate policemen nor policewomen, but I have no love for them either.

Respect? You get what you earn and while that may be a two way street, many of humanity has felt the one sideness of our police tactics/state for much too long.

So please forgive us if most of humanity seem to not like 'authoritive' figures. I will show a policeman/woman no disrespect, but like I said before... Unfortunately, Respect must now be earned.

I don't believe that all policemen or policewomen are bad, I just haven't met a good one, yet.

[edit on 5-3-2010 by UDntNoMe]

I see not many had a positive image of the Police on this tread, when is the OP going to give his opinion on this reaction by all the disgruntled, peace..

I am really tired for the glorification of Police officers.

1. A Police officer having a bad day can ruin a persons life

2. The media portrays them as heroes when they are paid for a service and know exactly what they are signing up for.

3. The media portrays it as a dangerous job when statistically their job is less dangerous than a roofer or a taxi cab driver

4. We are taught from a young age that Police officers are there to help and we are innocent until proven guilty, when in reality every person who has an experience with an officer only try to prove their innocence

5. Police officers have a track record of abusing power and being above the law when their illegal actions are covered by their buddies.

6. Are paid excessive amounts of overtime and extra income from the tax payers.

7. And above all, always forget they work for the taxpayers and should treat us with respect as they would a higher ranker officer.

[edit on 5-3-2010 by YayMayorBee]

reply to post by YayMayorBee


Yep the police officer glorifiers, have there right to do it, but they never seem to think about what the scum do in the police.

This has been one of the best threads I have read in a while here on ATS I say well done to everyone for some greats post for and against the OP's post.

My own experiance with cops here in the UK has never been a good one. I have never been arrested, cautioned or even seen the inside of a jail cell but the officers I have had dealing with demanded respect, co-operation even when they themselves are being un lawfull.

I was brought up that respect is earned not given the same with trust.

A large majority of police feel they are above us, that some how we are here to do there bidding and they in turn are there in ENFORCE the law no matter if it is an arse or not.

The police here in the UK seem to be more like glorified tax collectors because money and crime figures mean more to them than actual police work.

Motorists are a big target but they are very easy crimes/infractions to deal with and each one is a crime deteced and a crime solved and brings in money for the local authority.

If police would drop the hoiler than though attitude and start treating people like people instead of cash cows and statistics maybe we could build a good and repectfull relationship with them.

Police men/woman are above the laws they ENFORCE on others(can be proved a thousand times over) until they too are held to the same law how can we trust or respect them as a whole?

I don't doubt there are some fantasic cops out there but sadly they are in the minority.

reply to post by pajoly
Hiya Pajoly, I'm not trying to paint a picture that all cops are great. I'm pointing out that it's unreasonable to write off an entire occupation as sadists, bullies and psychos. You mention perception being reality? Human nature relies on perception, but it isn't always correct. Your post implies you have had no personal negative experience with the police. If this is so...your distrust of the police is based on the experience of others or media accounts.

It is so funny, I can't tell you how many times I have said hello to a police officer, only to met with a glare. No, no sympathy from me. You as police administrators actively WANT and RECRUIT and PROMOTE the nastiest among us. The truly decent cop leaves his job before he falls prey to the rampant cynicism and occasional outright criminality of his peers.

I'm not related to the police at all. I've got a couple of friends connected to the police and more friends involved in stuff the police would find interesting. I'm pretty neutral. The main point I was making is that not all police are the root of all evil. 'Truly decent cops' exist and they are out there doing their jobs in the face of some people that assume they are all corrupt.

It's worth considering whether good cops quit because of 'bad apple' colleagues or instinctive hostility from the public they signed on 'to protect.'

I'm not one of those that think that ALL cops are corrupt/fascist/thugs. But I'm hearing more and more incidents where cops are arresting people for the flimsiest of excuses such as daring to stand up for their Constitution rights for example. Ten years ago, an incident like that would be all over the news and the cops in question would have been suspended or fired. Not today. It's not even mentioned on the news.

It's no secret that cops have an 'us versus them' attitude and all of us civilians are the 'them'. Cops belong to an unspoken brotherhood that encourages them to lie for each other, cover up other cops illegal behaviours, etc. Since cops are the ones with the guns and badges, why aren't they held up to a higher standard? People who are psychologically disposed to bullying or other anti-social behaviour should not be allowed to be cops in the first place. What bothers me is that cops are suseptible to overzealousness. They will always push the envelope when it comes to civil rights. And if they're not being watched carefully so that they don't step over the line and abuse people's civil rights, then they just keep going even further. Planting evidence? What's wrong with that if the person is deemed guilty? Searching a home or car without a warrant? Why not if it's obvious the suspect is hiding something? Tapping phones? Sure because only the guilty have something to hide. That kind of attitude means that anyone who invokes their rights is automatically assumed to be guilty.

Most cops aren't bad people but they should be kept on a short leash and that's not what's happening. Citizens shouldn't have to prove themselves innocent of a crime to avoid arrest.

Having said all that, I applaud your efforts to keep cops honest and under control.

Have many here traveled much? I only say this because its mainly the Cops in the USA that most are talking about here! but I can tell yea this! there are awful Police all over the World some countries worse than others
so its like an epidemic all over, that's telling us something is very wrong!
But what to do about this state of affairs! Solidarity is what's needed, it brought down the Wall in 89! but on a World scale! an that's were the NET come's in, Peace..