Is ATS Luciferian ? * Please note the question mark !

Originally posted by Getsmart
Yet assuredly the vast vast majority of Masons are not directly exposed to said cult and it appears that even above the 33rd degree not everyone is on board.

Firstly, why is only the Scottish Rite, an appendant body of Masonry, given a position of rank over other Masons and not, for example, the York Rite or the Shriners?

Secondly, who specifically is 'above the 33rd degree' and how/where did they receive this ritual and could you also detail its contents?

Originally posted by davesidious
You are accepting so much conjecture as fact it's no wonder you are getting confused by such ideas.

Hi Davesidious,


Thanks for posting your comments, to which I hope to provide with an adequate reply.


You are quite correct, I have advanced what can be certainly termed "conjecture". However, I beg to differ insofar as not only do I not mistake this for FACT but I invite others to discuss its potential relevance should it be proven true... OR FALSE.


Also, I am not "getting confused by such ideas" for does it have to systematically mean that you are under a confusing influence when you put together the pieces of a puzzle ? If you examine my postings, I am actually quite far from confused. Yet I find it intellectually gratifying to examine together in cordial companionship the relevance of theories, ideas, concepts, speculation and hypotheses.


From what I had understood, this is a research forum where we seek to gain further understanding of complex matters. If one imagines that it is only to expound proven facts and argue over the instrumentation of empirical evidence, then a General Conspiracy forum is hardly the place. For Conspiracy Theories are by essence exactly that: theories. They are not limited to the narrow examination of inductive logic, but use the far more creative metaphysical deduction process to investigate and uncover unexpected possibilities. These can then, at a later stage, be usefully confronted with tangible evidence to verify or FALSIFY the theories.


Thanks for tolerating a broader research methodology which may appear confusing to you but, I assure you, is in no way confusing to me. Such ideas are not sources of confusion but fascinating catalysts for interesting untraditional ways of approaching a given topic. Does it matter what path you take, as long as you ascend the mountain of understanding, or must we instead stumble about in the valley of confirmed knowledge ?

reply to post by Getsmart


I do have to ask you where you became so educated on masonic secrets? I mean, you have the knowledge that a select few 33rd degree masons from the Scottish Rite abandoned their belief in deity and now worship Lucifer. Why that is more than I have learned in my years in masonry. And more than any 33rd degree brother I have ever talked to. Why do they go to church to pretend to worship God and Jesus Christ? Is it just for show? I look forward to hearing all about your vast wealth on knowledge on this subject.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Getsmart
Yet assuredly the vast vast majority of Masons are not directly exposed to said cult and it appears that even above the 33rd degree not everyone is on board.

Firstly, why is only the Scottish Rite, an appendant body of Masonry, given a position of rank over other Masons and not, for example, the York Rite or the Shriners?

Secondly, who specifically is 'above the 33rd degree' and how/where did they receive this ritual and could you also detail its contents?

Hi Augustus Masonicus,


I well understand and respect your honorable effort to defend your liege and legion, if your post and chosen name are so indicative.


However, isn't it for you, who defend this order, to explain the contents and details of that ritual to dispute the subject, or does your own hermetic law of secrecy prevent even you from knowing this information yourself ?


Please note that I made those statements not to assail your masonic brethren, because said Illuminati may well have infiltrated the top tiers of Freemasonry, as George Washington attested to already in his day, but to remove any veil of suspicion against lower masons being in conscience knowing participants in such a Luciferian General Conspiracy.


[edit on 4-3-2010 by Getsmart]

reply to post by Getsmart


If a conspiracy theory has no supporting evidence, and is not guided by logic, how is it different from the ramblings of the insane? Surely we should hold ourselves to the same levels of required evidence and objectivity that actual, real, demonstrated conspiracies have been outed by? I know it's hard, and yields less, but what it does yield is actual conspiracy. If we are happy to just bounce conjecture around, then we will never learn anything.

The conjecture in your post means it is impossible for you to learn from any responses to your question, as the sheer amount of unknowns means you are essentially asking people's opinions, which are no more or less valid than your own. In essence, you already have all the answers you can ever get to such a question. It's like me asking ATS what Bigfoot likes for breakfast - my guess would be as good as anyone else's, and when the thread dies down, still we don't know, as we haven't even demonstrated Bigfoot exists, or what he is, let alone his dietary preferences.

That is my point. If the people busting Nixon for the Watergate conspiracy strived for the same level of evidence you are calling for, Nixon would have got away with it.

reply to post by Getsmart


Oh, and I almost forgot, could you point me to the address of the Illuminati in VA? I would like to travel there soon and petition for membership. Perhaps you could put in a good word for me?

[edit on 4-3-2010 by network dude]

reply to post by network dude


We are not taking new members at the moment, due to our poster-boy being the current president. Business is good.

Hi all,

Pretty much everything can be pointed to be Luciferian or Satanic.
Everything with good intentions can be regarded as evil for whatever reason. And everything with bad intentions, can be regarded as a good thing.

Think of preaching an open mind, and think of RFID.

This is called dualism.
And since we are all human, we are dualists.

Thats what I think anyway.

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by network dude

 

We are not taking new members at the moment, due to our poster-boy being the current president. Business is good.

I understand. thanks so much for the reply. perhaps you could let me know when an opportunity becomes available?

Originally posted by davesidious
If a conspiracy theory has no supporting evidence, and is not guided by logic, how is it different from the ramblings of the insane? Surely we should hold ourselves to the same levels of required evidence and objectivity that actual, real, demonstrated conspiracies have been outed by? I know it's hard, and yields less, but what it does yield is actual conspiracy. If we are happy to just bounce conjecture around, then we will never learn anything.

Davesidious,


Before this thread turns insidious please note that it is not I who suffer from delusions here. The scientific consensus in cognitive science is that objectivity is a fallacy, the closest we can hope to reach to a common truth is by virtue of a different process technically termed inter-subjectivity.


By this means we can venture into the "subjective" territory which you dismiss from the standpoint of your own personal subjective reasoning which you mandate as true for all, and postulate as truth if you can grasp at a few logical connectors and perceived observations. Nonetheless you are no less victim of your own subjectivity, and possibly more so due to the illusion that you are "objective".


Prospective inquiry is far more based on logic and less dependent on raw data to form its postulates. However it must at a given time, sooner or much later, rejoin with common observable phenomena to become an inter-subjective theory. Until that time it remains a hypothetical proposition, which IS NOT HERESY as you seem to belief, but is the very basis of the fundamental science which has advanced humanity's governing scientific paradigms.

Originally posted by davesidious
The conjecture in your post means it is impossible for you to learn from any responses to your question, as the sheer amount of unknowns means you are essentially asking people's opinions, which are no more or less valid than your own. In essence, you already have all the answers you can ever get to such a question. It's like me asking ATS what Bigfoot likes for breakfast - my guess would be as good as anyone else's, and when the thread dies down, still we don't know, as we haven't even demonstrated Bigfoot exists, or what he is, let alone his dietary preferences...

Davesidious, I can well understand your concern given that in your description of the process you show little confidence in researching areas where you don't master most of the factors. This is not to your discredit as it takes a measure of intellectual courage and the ability to engage in what you call "rambling" before finding the important logical links which tend to naturally reveal themselves to organized minds when confronted with loose concepts without overbearing causal linkage, But in bona fide research, unlike what you suggest, it does not boil down in the end to mere unjustified opinions but the logical framework and its explanatory deductions must be TESTED and either Validated or Falsified by confrontation with inductive observation and inter-subjective confrontation.


What is the GENIUS of forums such as ATS is that we can think out of the box and mesh - - through the medium of this real-time living breathing exchange of ideas over the Internet - - our individual subjective percepts at the early stages of hypothetical proposition development. This is a rare occasion which in the past was only afforded narrow collaborators in research projects, usually based nearby and most often within the same specialized disciplines. What ATS offers us is the opportunity to share our vision, ideas and concepts and fuse them together into a plausible, if not directly factually derived or yet proven, Conspiracy Theory.


I thought that was what this forum was about, the General Conspiracy forum. Or is it instead to transmit bulk data garnered by technical means that amass into an inform conglomerate of trivia? What matters is not the facts, even if these are decisive in validating an idea. It is first and foremost the insight and intelligence organizing vision. Fact are essential, they cannot be denied, but they are a very meager basis for the development of greater intelligent understanding, limiting their direct contribution to the occasional confirmation or invalidation of an idea.


I hope this settles your worries that this thread is leading nowhere other than to vent my fantasy about color preferences or paranoia about lost souls. It isn't, it is about determining together whether they might be a relevant symbolic use of a given non color for mystical or magickal purposes within the context of an age old Luciferian General Conspiracy.


Thanks for your understanding.


GS

Originally posted by network dude
Oh, and I almost forgot, could you point me to the address of the Illuminati in VA? I would like to travel there soon and petition for membership. Perhaps you could put in a good word for me?

Network dude,


It appears that you perceive the Illuminati to be some sort of social club like the shriners. This is definitely not the case, even if on occasion they do socialize in various contexts. It is a bloodline only group. You are born into it, and at a very early age you are "conditioned" to put the group first, and this by means better described by the Illuminati trainer "Svali" in the following videos. Take a gander, and consider that it may be far more fortunate to be the sheeple than the shepherd in such a system.





I can personally confirm from direct experience, at the expense of considerable life-breaking duress (though this may unnerve others lurking here) the veracity of numerous essential aspects of her testimony - - otherwise I wouldn't have posted the link to this series of disclosure videos.


To answer your specific question regarding the geographic location of the American branch of this occidental order, she states that Pittsburgh Pennsylvania in the heart of Pennsylvania "Dutch" (Deutsch = German) Bavarian Illuminati territory is the "Spiritual" (Luciferian) headquarters of the Illuminati - - where the last G20 took place incongruously, unless you imagine it was a mere coincidence given its status as a major world destination and/or scenic resort. She identifies Alexandria, Virginia as the US Administrative Headquarters of this Elitist NWO proponent organization.



[edit on 4-3-2010 by Getsmart]

Black is a slimming color, maybe ATS felt it was fat & opted for the illusion.

Originally posted by claireaudient
Black is a slimming color, maybe ATS felt it was fat & opted for the illusion.

Hi Claireaudient,


Despite your best efforts, even derision can be a source of understanding in this complex a subject. You are quite correct, black is a visually slimming color. This is why it is used as the color for Stealth Aircraft.


By the same token we can understand why hidden organizations wanting to avoid detection meet in the twilight hours, and use black as a color to reduce their visibility from others not meant to know what they Conspire to do. The darker, the closer to being blacked out they become, the more occult, i.e. invisible they are to others. This is also why the special top secret branches of the Secret Services are called Black Operations.


Thanks to your sharing this insight, we can presume that Luciferians may privilege the color black for its propensity to mask their existence from the rest of humanity, especially if they are Conspiring against them. Why else would you seek to hide in secrecy, hidden from the public eye, if you were not sure of being perceived as a danger, a threat, a menace ? Do you imagine that they are just an innocuous cult subject to unjust discrimination and persecution, or would it be wiser to consider whether they just may, perhaps, be indeed such a threat to the rest of humanity ?

reply to post by Getsmart


since you know all about the Illuminati and such, then could you explain how a group of scientits who formed a group with Adam Weishaupt turned into a bloodline only world domination group? That is about 180 degrees from why the group was formed in the first place. And how is it that they remain hidden yet you know all about them? Are you secretly a 45th degree mason and one of them? I just hope you aren't a vampire as well.

reply to post by Getsmart


A Luciferian ATS wouldn't give me the option to "go light"...

This sucks if true though, as one of my fav hangouts is all black.

SR.com

Saints = Satan

Originally posted by Signals
A Luciferian ATS wouldn't give me the option to "go light"...

This sucks if true though, as one of my fav hangouts is all black.

SR.com

Saints = Satan

Hi Signals, this thread was phrased as a question and it appears that it isn't even Black, but dark grey, substantially eliminating ATS as a candidate for Luciferian vocations, at least for most posting here. We must however consider the interesting aspect of such speculation, because when we consider whether the color Black may have a ritual or symbolic incidence for those of Luciferian convictions, it also brings to the forefront of the debate other means of identifying the Luciferian Conspiracy as well as opens to examination of their possible motivations in selecting identifying behaviors.


Regarding your link to the National Football League team it is the first I have heard of it having a connection with any form of Conspiracy, although I am sure that here at ATS we'll manage to stir up a few folks who've got an interesting story or two to tell about that sport.

Originally posted by There Once Was Man
An impressive bit of convoluted reasoning there. Would you be willing to back that up with some sources? If you're right, that means there's a Lucifer in the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and CERN is trying to make a Lucigollum.

There Once Was Man,


As per your request for sources of such a hypothesis,, here is a partial one. It refers to a Stargate which to some independent researchers is considered to be a dimensional portal to entities such as Lucifer.


The Real Meaning of the Term "Stargate" and its Tie-In With CERN (Creating a Black Hole?)

reply to post by Getsmart


OK, well, the proof is in the pudding. Let's see if we actually learn anything from this discussion. I know where my money is.

reply to post by network dude


We will contact you, of course

What black background? All I see are ads for stuff I'm never going to buy.

Originally posted by davesidious
OK, well, the proof is in the pudding. Let's see if we actually learn anything from this discussion. I know where my money is.

Well Davesidious, learning can only occur in one's own mind, and a seemingly insignificant event such as a dropping apple may have meant little to others yet helped Newton learn about Gravity. If proof is all you wish to find in your pudding, then you had best not venture into long or complicated research which has mystified humanity for centuries. I sincerely hope you shall learn something from our discussion, but failing to do so doesn't mean that others won't. You probably have done well to place your bet based on your degree of yearning to either press the limits of current understanding or remain within the comfort of proven knowledge.