Tithing..... And the scum that rob God...

reply to post by moocowman


That is simply not what is being said here.

reply to post by moocowman


If your going to argue within the confines of Scripture you have to only apply what is scripture.

I base what I said on what has been recognised as scripture from the church and its leaders from the beginning.

You cant simply apply what ever you want in this kind of debate just becuase it may say something you want it to say.

If we are going to have a Biblical debate then keep your support from the Bible...not from some extra biblical text that has never been recognised as the Word of God by churches.

Originally posted by Komodo
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

I have never been a Pastor/Rabbi bro..... I appreciate your sentiment, and think that people do need fellowship with one another,

It's not a matter of needing to fellowship....it's a vital to the body of Christ!

Sorry, but strict, structured religion is not the body of Christ. The entire earth is a part of the body of Christ. When he said, he would make his church upon this rock, he meant "third rock from the sun" IE earth.

When earth is sick and not functioning well, then the body of Christ is sick.

Let me ask you a question. Who is closer to God?

You, or the Mormons, Baptists, Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Bhuddists, etc.

Everyone claims to be closer to God. How do you know your ways, are the right ways.

Like Jesus said. Love God, and Love your Neighbor. Don't need a church to do that. Don't need to tithe to be closer to God.

Take care of one of God's children, and you have taken care of Him.

reply to post by Zaanny


Well you are indeed free to believe what ever you want to, but if we are haveing a biblical debate over the tithe then I simply confine myself to what has always been recognised as scripture and not add what ever book I want to based upon my feelings.

Originally posted by jrod
Time is money. If you truly believe and cannot afford to tithe then give your time to the church/god/charity/community service, there is always work that needs to be done.

It's not a matter of needing to fellowship....it's a vital to the body of Christ!

Why not just pray in earnest ?

For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

Matthew 21:21: I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

There you go problem solved, no money needed here just a little time effort praying will solve whatever problem you need to resolve.

Time is money. If someone is a millionaire and gives the church most his time, he does not owe the church a dime out of his pocket.

reply to post by 911stinks

When earth is sick and not functioning well, then the body of Christ is sick.

How is it possible for an omnipotent being, the author of sickness to be sick ?

reply to post by moocowman


You cannot say something like God is simply extending a pagan practice of giving money out of fear as the same thing as tithe.

With that approach you are making it clear that you arent someone who is a christian who is desiring honesty in the church but instead you are a non christian who simply doesnt believe the teachings of the tithe in the Bible, and you are free to feel that way.

I simply disagree with you.

My wages are paid out of the tithes and offerings through the church.

reply to post by Yissachar1


You started out good, but lost me with the reference to Malachi. This verse is not intended the way you interpreted it.

Regarding the tithe, I'm sure you've researched this. If not, here's the link on the tithe and why it is UNSCRIPTURAL under the new covenant.

Tithing is unscriptural under the new covenant

Originally posted by Shadowflux
Tithing is ridiculous, donating to your church for needed supplies is a different story. I know of churches that demand your tax returns to ensure that you are tithing the correct amount, sounds more like organized crime to me.

I'd find another church or worship at home. The bible does not say that you must worship in a building.

reply to post by Rockstrongo37

If we are going to have a Biblical debate then keep your support from the Bible...not from some extra biblical text that has never been recognised as the Word of God by churches.

Where exactly have I used extra biblical text ?

Are you claiming that the churches all agree on what is and is not scripture ? If so then you're saying that which was passed at Nicea is the only scripture, ie the only source of the word of your god ?

Do I take it then you are a catholic ? If not why not , why do you not subscribe to the scripture recognized by the original church as the wrod of god ?

reply to post by Freenrgy2

I'd find another church or worship at home. The bible does not say that you must worship in a building.

Jesus made it quite clear in his commandment to worship in "praying closet", this would imply that praying in a church is in conflict with the word of the jesusyahweh god.

Originally posted by truthseeker1984
I wonder if people are starting to wake up from this tithing garbage and this www.abovetopsecret.com... is the result.


I for one am sick of these "false prophets" stealing money from blinded people from all over the country. My father became a Wesleyan (much to my horror and dismay) and they DEMAND weekly donations of at least 75 dollars or more (at least at his church)! I finally confronted him about it and told him that if he didn't quit with this garbage I wouldn't be talking to him anymore. Well, it's been a year and I've spoken to him twice. From what I hear, they also demand tax returns so that they can take 10% of your earnings to go to the church. I'm sick of this bull$hit, and I'm so sick of religion and the people involved that make a buck off of others.

It's two-fold. Not only the fleecing of beleivers with the false, heretical teaching of the tithe, but the false heretical teaching of eternal damnation for NOT tithing. There is no place called "hell."

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by missvicky

 

I agree with you it is deceit and lies, which is what witchcraft is too... But Im with ya

I have to differ here. What you call "witchcraft" is a Craft of the Wise, in other words, the wise people pracitice a craft of herbs, communicating with nature, and knowing there is a God and Goddess in everything. Christians and other religious people know not one thing about this, they use key words just like the politicians do every day. I take offence that you bunch us in with liars and deceitful Christians. The true Wicca and the Craft has not one thing in common with Christianity.

reply to post by Rockstrongo37

You cannot say something like God is simply extending a pagan practice of giving money out of fear as the same thing as tithe.

Yes I can, I did and it is.

Tithing as we know is merely handing something of value over to the particular god in question via the priests to do with as they see fit. Historically to enrich themselves not much has changed there although I do admit that some put all the "gift/offering" to good use allegedly.

This is a tradition that was practiced by the Egyptian priests and obviously continued with the jewish priests. Things did not change when the christian church was founded, Paul appears to have been very insistent on collecting his offerings he would even shoe his face at the churches when the rent was due.

With that approach you are making it clear that you arent someone who is a christian who is desiring honesty in the church

Why should anyone have to be a christian to desire honesty ?

My wages are paid out of the tithes and offerings through the church.

Why do you charge for spreading a message ?

My kids go to youth club and have a great old time, the organizers took it upon themselves to start the club and do it at no charge because they want and like to do it.

When things need to be done that the organizers don't have time to do everyone else gets stuck.

Originally posted by Rockstrongo37

My wages are paid out of the tithes and offerings through the church.

Do you then tithe a percentage back?

Does the tithed contribution of your parishoners cover anything other than the day to day costs of your church? By this I mean, what percentage of the total tithed is paid to ease the hunger of those who are not of your parish?

Do any of your parishoners refuse the tithe? If so, are they ejected from your church or sidelined so that they voluntarily leave?

Originally posted by Rockstrongo37
reply to post by 911stinks

 

I am sorry but that argument is simply shallow. The very fact that there were exchangers there to allow the use of money to fullfill the tithe proves my point.

The fact that they were corrupt was the reason that Christ whipped them out of the temple.

Something tells me my years in seminary compared to purhaps the few times you have read the Word in convenience indicates your clear lack of understanding of both facts and events to support your opinion.

[edit on 1-3-2010 by Rockstrongo37]

Rockstrongo, your words leave me shaking with anger!

That such vanity should lead a flock! If even one of your flock is truly seeking the Truth of God, I fear he or she will not find any true guidance in your judgemental approach to those that do not agree with you.

reply to post by Yissachar1

Amen and amen... S&F for your most important rant!

I was a business administrator of a rather large church for several years. The denomination, as almost all do, taught tithing as a foundation for living a Christian life. I know most modern ministers are aware that teaching tithe as a New Testament doctrine is in error. Yet, it brings in the bucks, so they continue teaching it.

You point out the truth in tithe and I would only add to your observations a few additional points. First, the "storehouse of the Lord" was used as a way of providing food to the faithful during times when the crops did not thrive because of lack of rain or infestation, etc.

Second, the closest approximation in today’s world to a "storehouse" would be a credit union. A credit union is owned by the users in common. You could bring your "tithe" there as a deposit of cash for use in future times of need. So, when you have need you just make a withdrawal from the savings.

Finally, the lowest of all the scumbags of religious life are the "prosperity preachers" who tell you that God will give you back a thousand bucks for each hundred you send them. Sounds like a good deal, right? Fall for that one and you deserve to be scammed.

Best advice, when looking for a church, seek out one that has a vision for helping the poor and needy, not feathering their own nest. They exist, but you will need to search for them. My ideal church is a group of believers in a neighborhood that gather in each other’s homes.

Most important, don't give up on God. His word teaches it correctly. Greedy religious leaders are at fault for this incorrect doctrine scam, not God.

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You've got it backward. All we have belongs to God and you are robbing Him if you do NOT tithe. However the government represents the devil and it takes a lot more than 10%. If God weren't real it would be robbery, but God backs it up by blessing you if you tithe.The govt only finds excuses to take more and start imperialistic wars


[edit on 1-3-2010 by m khan]

Originally posted by romanmel
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

Amen and amen... S&F for your most important rant!

I was a business administrator of a rather large church for several years. The denomination, as almost all do, taught tithing as a foundation for living a Christian life. I know most modern ministers are aware that teaching tithe as a New Testament doctrine is in error. Yet, it brings in the bucks, so they continue teaching it.
...
Most important, don't give up on God. His word teaches it correctly. Greedy religious leaders are at fault for this incorrect doctrine scam, not God.

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A most excellent post. Thanks for sharing your experience. You seem to be awakened.