Tithing..... And the scum that rob God...

reply to post by Yissachar1


I agree with you it is deceit and lies, which is what witchcraft is too... But Im with ya
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Witchcraft is not deceit and lies. Therefore you can't agree with me. Religion that becomes manipulated is the source of lies and deceit. Please do not confuse Wicca etc with organized religion.

True faith is a rare gift that when shared ,

feeds the hungriest soul , and gives God

the Glory , He so deserves .

S & F

Originally posted by Komodo
God LOVES an even balance. (just weights in KJV) To excally quote proverbs from memory ..

Just weights are his delight~!

I'll comment on each post here, later. Suffice it to say this. Jesus aptly put it .. "pay to Ceasear what is Cearsears, and to God what is His"

God does not need money.
Jesus did not receive money for preaching, and He gave tax on money He earned by pulling it out of the mouth of a fish. Proverbs is OT. All justification for tithing is OT, not NT. The things that are God's are spiritual, such as humility, righteousness, etc.

@ the OP... what you seeing is the exact same thing as the Children of Israel did in the Sinai... used their relationship to get what they wanted/missed to fullfill their lusts. All the gold did only 1 thing... test them.. and they failed.. they made a GOLDEN calf. They paid for it then and they'll stay pay for it now, unless they repent.

They did not have faith in Moses, who had left them for 40 days. They were living in fear, lacking direction, so they appealed to the only Gods they had known by that time from Egypt. It was traditional to make the gods of gold.

Not sure if you've ever actually put on a pastors hat before, but if not, I deeply suggest you sincerly ask your Father in Heaven to direct you to a church where you can sit along side of a spirit filled, blood brought Christian pastor.

Having been an assistant pastor, in a church paying tithing, I can assure you that I do not believe in tithing as a Biblical teaching. In fact, in Acts the Gentiles who are converted to Christianity are only required a few things: not eat meat offered to idols, and not commit adultery. Look how far it has been stretched today.

From personal experience as a pastor and assistant pastor, there are days which there are never enough hours in a day. Time invested in people takes just that.....TIME. every try and get 100 people to look outside them selves and do something for someone OTHER than their family? Trust me, it takes time and DEEP persoanal relationship with the Father every ... single ... day just to be available to hear and be LEAD to what HE wants for that day.

I admire your efforts to be a leader. It's not for everyone. However, as a shepherd of the flock, you are commanded not to mislead them. If you preached tithing, you did not realize it was a dead teaching.

I can tell you this, living with a pastor's family for 2 years, some weeks/months go by where there's no time for a 'regualar' job .. 8-5pm. Why? Simple, your not on your time... your on God's time. As Paul said.."Is it fair to work your oxen and never feed them?? "

Offerings are good, tithing is wrong.

Here's what REALLY irks me.... Salvation Army recieved 1.7 billons of in 2004 from the woman of the late husband that started McDonalds.......wer're talking BILLION.

As we still have homeless right here in the big city of Portland metro.. why??

They are actively solving the problems nationwide. "The poor ye shall always have with you."

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Tithing.....

I have had a very big problem with this issue for a very long time.. I have observed the people of God being fleeced out of their hard earned cash week in and week out for years.. But is tithing in the modern sense biblical?

During the time the scriptures were wrote, tithing itself was indeed a required law where at various times of year during the feasts, the tithe would be taken from the people of Israel and put into the storehouse.. But what was the tithes purpose? And what WAS the tithe? Well, the tithe was not money for a start! It was food... The Lord said “there shall be FOOD in MY house.”

During the various feasts when the tithe was to be presented, the people had to go to Jerusalem to do that. So instead of carrying a whole lot of food about with them that would spoil on the journey to Jerusalem, they would sell what they had and carry money which they would then in turn buy the food when they got there and present that before the Lord... No money was ever used as the tithe itself... The reason for the tithe was twofold.. One was that this was part of the Levitical inheritance.. The Levites had no land inheritance so would take part of the tithe to live.. It was also for the POOR... It was meant as a means for the poor to be fed in the house of God.... It was meant for anyone in need.... Hence why it says in Malachi 3:


“Will a man rob God?Yet you have robbed Me!But you say,‘In what way have we robbed You?’In tithes and offerings.9You are cursed with a curse,For you have robbed Me,Even this whole nation.10Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,That there may be food in My house,

Taking from Gods poor people is the same as taking from God..... Poor people with nothing....

However, the same passage is used to fleece the congregation so that the various pastors can have nice cars.... The tithe then is not going to the right people... The poor..... How can they justify this is beyond me... But God repays!... I see a big fire in those peoples future....

Examples of what the “modern Tithe” buys;

Jets, several opulent homes, first class lifestyles etc.... Do your own search on the wealth and holding of the top pastors and evangelists and you will see that the God business seems to be recession proof... One pastor; the self proclaimed “prophetess” Juanita Bynam” even owns a gold plated Rolls Royce! A few on the list of shame that fleeces the people include;

CBN
TBN
Daystar
God TV
Creflo Dollar (aptly named)
Benni Hinn
T D Jakes (oh yes he does!)
Hillsong (revolving door christianity.. Even Darlene left!)
Kenneth Copeland (all about the money)
Peter Poppoff (still waiting for my magical mystery manna)
Rod Parsley

The list goes on... They twist scripture to one of prosperity where if you have no material stuff or are ill, then you haven't got God.. They even try to sell something that you could never put a price on.... Salvation... They turn you from the Word to their own word which they sell to you and treat it as the inspired word... These guys are crooks! Dont give your money to them... These guys try to sell Gods grace to make them richer

Its witchcraft..... Buying grace.... Grace is free and cannot be bought or earned..

Rant done

Your thoughts

Excellent post. To add to it, the tithing was not the first 10% either, it was the last 10%. If a man had 10 herd, he gave the last, not the first. The theives of today tell you it should be your first 10%. What is really disturbing to me is how today's "preachers" try to make you feel guilty if you don't give your 10% every week.

Originally posted by Moonman1111
Good thread, star for you OP. I have noticed this too, and all it seems to do is turn people off to Christ. I believe if you're going to call yourself a Christian, you have to make an effort at the very least to do as he commanded from us.

Such as selling everything you own? Or hating your family to follow him? Yep, he says that in the book of Luke.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
I can assure you that that is what God thinks too.... But the pastor has other ideas... Funny how those buildings dont last too long...

How can you assure anybody what god thinks?

On topic, I don't believe in god so church in general doesn't work for me, it is bad enough when these pastors believe they are being relayed messages from whatever god they believe in. Even worse when they demand or even ask for money from the members with out good reason.

Just another scam.

reply to post by Yissachar1

And what WAS the tithe? Well, the tithe was not money for a start! It was food... The Lord said “there shall be FOOD in MY house.”

This practice goes back much further and was a product of the Egyptians. The priests of Egypt had as much (and often more) influence on the population as Pharoh.

Offerings were made by the populace to the to the God, needless to say the god was imaginary so the priests were kept well fed by the sheeple.

This is not unique to the jews and IMHO given that the Hebrews were one and the same Hyksos Egyptians , it is an Egyptian practice within the remnant of an Egyptian religion.


Needless to say nothing has changed over the centuries , the gullible who normally have the least hand over their cash/belongings to the snakeoil salesmen.

After thousands of years, deluded people are still too afraid of asking themselves a very simple question - Why the hell does the alleged creator of the universe need money ?

In all fairness bronze age people who pissed their loincloth during an eclipse wouldn't have known the priests just happen to be adept at observing the regularity of nature. But when in 2010 supposedly intelligent people are still paying through the nose for the lucky rabbits foot of jesus, well that's downright unforgivable.

My dad once taught me " Dumb assed people rich or poor with some money in their pocket have a need to give it to someone else before paying the bills, so never feel guilty for being first in line to taking their burden from them. If not you then who ?"

Whether jesus was real or not, I think his words hit the nail on the head, but when he said there will always be the poor, he meant there will always be the stupid.

reply to post by Yissachar1


Again I am afraid that your understanding of the Word is shallow and ignorant...indeed the church DOES need pastors and teachers.

Ephesians 4:11
It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,

Look you dont need to give your money to the church as tithe, infact God doesnt want your "treasure" because your heart is clearly not joyful in such a gift.

2 Corinthians 9:7 (New International Version)
7Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

So I would think that what ever you do give, its founded in your resentment over being asked to give money, and the fact that you dont seem to have a problem giving a can of corn and yet do have a problem giving a few bucks tells me clearly that money itself may be a stumbling block for you.

Honestly...the very fact that you have such difficulty giving a tithe of your income should indicate that you should dicipline yourself to give just that! Your money.

Dont be foolish and give it to some crooked preacher that clearly doesnt spend it righteously, but give it.

Finally, your effort here is leading people off the path that God intended and you will have to take real responsibility for your words before him.

reply to post by aero56

Such as selling everything you own? Or hating your family to follow him? Yep, he says that in the book of Luke.

Why is it do you think that christians don't follow the commandment and sell all their goods to follow jesus ?

I've heard a lot of contorted answers to this, but the most obvious (and plausible) is that this was a man organizing a rebellion raising funds to buy arms etc, it was only relevant at the time.

reply to post by Rockstrongo37

Honestly...the very fact that you have such difficulty giving a tithe of your income should indicate that you should dicipline yourself to give just that! Your money.

Don't be so bloody ridiculous and get off your high horse.

If you see a hungry person and choose to help him, buy him a sandwich the more money you have the more sandwiches you can buy.

Money in the bank earns you interest, your money in the pastors bank earns him interest.

Tithing is for idiots, end of story. In my opinion if God wanted you to give some portion of your earnings for charity, it wouldn't be so preachers could drive a Lexus or wear a Rolex. Instead, he'd have you feed the hungry or care for those who can't care for themselves. I have one family member that tithes enough to pay my house note twice each month, and he seems overjoyed that his preacher really notices his family and takes time to speak with them every Sunday. Well, no sh#t sherlock your making the f-ing guy rich! Western religious practices are absurd, period!

[edit on 3/1/2010 by budaruskie]

[edit on 3/1/2010 by budaruskie]

I attended a methodist church at one point in my life until the pastor said one day that if our bank accounts were going up then we were not giving enough tithes and offerings. I also attended a non-denominational church where we were told our offerings were going to a new building fund and that God told our pastor that the new building would be finished in 6 months. 2 years later we had half a building and one of the builders died on the project. The pastor had a new BMW, new House, and a new Harley by this time also. What a scam..

reply to post by moocowman


Im sorry that you feel the truth is so difficult to digest. The truth of the matter here is, and I have show in scripture, that tithing does include money.

reply to post by Yissachar1


tithing is no longer the rule for christians; it is whatever you decide only...

2Co 9:7 Let each man do according as he hath purposed in his heart; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

its a global business phenomena; damned McChurch scams

Originally posted by Rockstrongo37
reply to post by moocowman

 

Im sorry that you feel the truth is so difficult to digest. The truth of the matter here is, and I have show in scripture, that tithing does include money.

And as I have shown , the practice is Egyptian in origin gullible people made offerings to the priesthood food and money if they had it.

The scam has being going that long my friend I have not disputed that this extortion racket involved money. The clergy will take whatever they can get their greasy corrupt mits on.

Deluded people have been trying to buy the favors of supernatural beings from slimy priests forever, the foolish will always be foolish.

reply to post by Yissachar1


I think you make a very strong point. The ways many of these religious leaders spend is partially the reason I began to search for GOD on my own personal INTERNAL level because it just doesnt seem right to go to church and see supposed GOD helpers all $$$$ up with nice NEW cars and CLOTHES nothing wrong with looking presentable but to be driven BENZ-CADI. LEXUS OR ANY MATERIALISTIC VEHICLE SYMBOLIZING higher FINANCIAL rank in society basically shows NATAS IS PRESENT WITHIN the hearts of some FAKE GOD HELPERS. When I began to notice how there is a somewhat FASHION SHOW present within many churches I realized that many are WAY off point with the creator AND ONE MUST FIND LIGHT WITHIN THEMSELVES TRULEY. S&F for delivering such a valid point. It makes no sense to present ones self within a place of worship as A RICH SHOW OFF OR EVEN A WELL OFF SHOW OFF FOR MANY SEEKING THE LIGHT ARE IN FINANCIALLY UNSTABLE SITUATION, NOT ALL BUT MANY AND CAN BE DISCOMFORTED IF NOT EVEN MISGUIDED BY THESE FAKE IMPOSTERS WHO WILL BE MAD WHEN THEY REALIZE IN THE END THEY WERE NOT WORTHY TO SPEAK OF THE CREATOR NOR HIS DIVINE INTENTIONS. $$$$$$$$IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL so why spend so much time during time of worship focusing on how nice you dress and look to go to church SMH

[edit on 3/1/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

reply to post by moocowman


You can't count the apples and oranges together as one thing. So there are examples of corruption in other faiths...what does that prove? That there is sin in man.

You clearly havent read what I posted either...if you would have you couldnt believe that giving tithes in the form of money is wrong.

I have always been amazed by those who are angery over giving money as tithe to the church, usually they dont go to church regulary themselves...yet have a real emphatic feeling over this subject.

Sadly the crooks on TV, the evangelists who have twisted the issue of the tithe for their own personal gain give people like you fire to fuel your anger.

I do feel your disdain toward these type of "preachers" is justified...just be careful not to use their evil as an excuse to disobey what is so clearly commanded by God for the provision of the church, and the advancement of his work here on earth.

my 2 cents.....

From the Book of Thomas...

"It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the all. From me did the all come forth, and unto me did the all extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

Your God is within you and no physical place is required for you to have a relationship with God.

reply to post by Zaanny


Sorry but honestly the Book of Thomas isnt part of the Bible, it has never been recognized as scripture except by a handfull of apostate groups around Rome and was written in somewhere in the 3rd or 4th centuries. So that cant be used in a debate where scripture is being applied.

reply to post by Rockstrongo37

..if you would have you couldnt believe that giving tithes in the form of money is wrong.

I don't think it's wrong, but I do think it's downright stupid, but hey it's your money do what the hell you like with it.

Buy a TV give it to a pastor whatever makes you feel happy.