Tithing..... And the scum that rob God...

reply to post by Stormdancer777

I think the Bible read and taken in proper context, is a wonderful source of wisdom teachings,

Let me ask you something, in your opinion how do you take this in proper context and who was its' author - ?

Though shalt not commit adultery

reply to post by moocowman


This is about tithing and not about man writing the bible. Stop trolling.

Second.

reply to post by The_Tick


You don't see too many of them - but I wish more churches would be more open with their finances. Go over it with the congregation - "You gave $X, our expenses were $Y & $Z, etc".

If everything is on the up and up there really is no reason not to do that.

Equinox99 says: This is about tithing and not about man writing the bible....

Frogs says: but I wish more churches would be more open with their finances. Go over it with the congregation - "You gave $X, our expenses were $Y & $Z, etc".

i respond to each, the tithing rule has been leveraged by the churchs' leaders...
its a Business After-All !
... they keep confidential the inflows and treasury and the outlays
of monies which some of it was "Tithed"...

The Gospel Of Prosperity is the modern gospel,
which is a twisted sub-set of the 10% gifts of the Christ Ministry era.

Does God want 10% of the money he says he already owns or does he want you to sacrifice (I'm not talking animals here), show mercy, stand up for justice and have faith?

With that being said, no church should have ATM machines inside, they shouldn't sell all those dvd's, books and worthless tapes, and they need to hit the streets. I'm glad I do what I do and I'm completely glad I've left the church. I've never seen so many yes men and zombies in my life!

I just wonder how much Jesus made when he was healing the sick and preaching his message. I have heard of churches charging an admission fee just to get in so they can hear the word of God. lol. Just read the Bible for yourself to hear the word of God. Apparently some preachers forgot about the camel and the eye of a needle. I am not saying that none of the money they get helps out any poor, but I would be interested in seeing what percentage actually goes to helping the poor.

2 Peter 2:12
But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the thing that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2 Peter 2:13
And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the daytime. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2 Peter 2:19
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: of the same is he brought in bondage.

A true proverb. The dog is turned to his own vomit again.

reply to post by EMPIRE


It is written;

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

reply to post by Conclusion


And some would argue that Revelation 18:4 is Christ admonoshing us to see these things happening in today's church and "Come out of her, my people."

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Mykahel

 

Why on earth does a youth need a minister may I ask ?

Why can't you just let kids alone, let them grow up and learn to think not pound them with your religious views. When they are mature then thy are in better position to make decisions and decide without prejudice what they think of the bibles.

Why do you require money for talking to young people ? Do people really pay you to talk to their kids ?

I know stacks of "youth workers" they do it for free not turn it into a business.

Let me start by saying I remember your offensive posts from before and they aren't welcome here. Aside from that, here is my answer to your post since it is actually on topic.

The reason the kids need a minister is because we need to:
Proverbs 22:6
Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.

This is supposed to be the job of the parents. If they were doing their part instead of relying on the government, entertainment, schools and their church leaders to train their kids, I would not have a job. They day I am unemployed because the youth dont need me is a day I will rejoice like never before. The world is corrupt, and somebody needs to teach them the truth which is found in the Holy Scriptures and Creation.

I don't pound them with my religious views. You are making wild and false assumptions. I make the kids think for themselves and present them with evidence and my opinions. Very rarely will I simply say "this is how it is and you had better accept it." If I do that they will turn away from it as soon as they leave the room. They have to make informed decisions for themselves to serve the Lord, I cannot save them by my own faith.

I've done ministry for free for a long time. I wish that I still could. I am paid not necessarily for the work I do, but so that I can be freed from having to work elsewhere so that I can devote my entire time to ministry. Honestly, I would prefer to receive a part time salary and work part-time elsewhere. To have a "tent-making" ministry as many would call it. As it is, since we have no Sr. Minister at the moment, I am preaching on a regular basis, managing the administrative side of the office work, teaching a Sunday school class and running our evening youth events, planning and taking the youth on trips that can be entire days or weeks long, helping with our Children's church service which is held separate from the adult service when I am not preaching, serving as a chaplain (pretty much a counselor) once a week at the high school, organizing community service events, and yes, just spending time with the youth to build up relationships so that I can better mentor them.

Sorry to those reading this who feel like I am trying to brag about what I do, often times I feel I am not doing enough but ministry can be a full time job if you are actually working at it. Sermon preparation alone can take up to 20 hours a week if you are serious about your study and also provide any visual aids, powerpoints, etc. I have no respect for those who simply use another's sermon or recycle their own. You have to bring the word as it is needed and how it is relevant to the audience and issues.

Sorry for the rant...

reply to post by Frogs


I cant say that many do, but in traveling with my family (Military brat here) I did go to numerous churches growing up. For the most part, the churches of Christ and Christian Churches (denomination for those who dont know) generally vote on the budget just like they do the elders, deacons, etc. I know that our budget is voted on every year and the churches gets to see exactly how it is broken up. The entire church knows what I am getting paid (since I'm a youth minister) and they know how much is going to missions, mortgage, etc.

Our church also posts how much is given each week and whether or not we are meeting the budget we voted on. I would be suspicious of a church as well if they keep all the finance info behind closed doors.

reply to post by romanmel


I'm not just replying to you but the general idea of giving all to G-d and not just the 10%.

Some people take the scripture of the rich man being commanded to sell everything and give it to the poor as a general rule for all Christians. It is not. It is to a specific person in a specific instance. The rich man would have been provided for and survived just fine had he sold everything and gave it away and then continued to follow Yeshua. After all, Yeshua and the disciples themselves were taken care of by some of those who were following them and supporting them out of their own money. Not every meal was brought forth by a miracle.

In acts, the church members still had their own property though they shared it freely not considering it their own. On occasion they would sell their property and give it to the church to help those IN THE CHURCH before using it to help those outside the church. I'm not saying to neglect the poor not in the faith, but you have to take care of your own family first. Point is though that not every Christian was just selling everything and living off the land. they still had property.

The real point in giving it all is that we should be ready to. If G-d calls you to serve Him in Africa and says sell everything you have and go bring the message to my people across the seas, you should be willing to do it without holding on to what you've got. You have to be genuinely WILLING to sacrifice all that you have, including your very life.

If I've missed something or was unclear, please let me know. I think I expressed my thoughts on it fairly simply.

reply to post by Mykahel


Yes - I have seen that and agree with your comments. Of course, it varies by domination and sometimes even between churches within denominations.

A valid point on your other post as well. Being a full time pastor / minister / church worker does not mean a person (or their family) no longer needs food, clothing, shelter, etc.

The issue comes about with the mansion dwelling preachers that have found ways to abuse the system for $. Really, I don't see them as much different from the money grubbing CEO's that caused the financial crisis.

To further that analogy - for every overpaid CEO that caused the crisis there is probably 1000's of people just trying to do the best job they can every day and keep their heads above water.

For every crooked preacher that lives in a mansion there are probably 1000's of church workers just trying to do the best job they can every day and keep their heads above water.

reply to post by Mykahel

I understand your viewpoint and respect it. However, we will never know what it would be like to sell all we have, give it all to the poor and depend on God. None of us has the courage to try Him at His word.

The first century church thrived with NO buildings or structured salary for ministers. They met in homes and often at peril of death if discovered. No special offering was made to repad the pews.

Tithing was a temple tax to support the temple. The temple was destroyed almost 2,000 years ago. Jesus said that His temple was in our hearts. You cannot pay a temple tax without a temple.

reply to post by Freenrgy2


That very well could be true.

Next line.

Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by moocowman

 

This is about tithing and not about man writing the bible. Stop trolling.

Second.

Try reading the thread you may just notice that the bible does indeed raise its' ugly head quite a few times.

Lighten up dude if your faith is that fragile stay out of the foray.

2nd Corinthians 8:12 thru 8:14

For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hat not.

For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:

But by an EQUALITY, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality.

Hmmm. It seems that if someone is poor in a rich church, that is a blemish on that church. If they do not take care of their own sheep, then the tithe of the soul is not collected.

[edit on 1-3-2010 by Conclusion]

reply to post by romanmel


Thanks for the kind reply.

I do in fact know one person personally who sold everything he had and moved away to begin mission work. He was a classmate of mine at Johnson Bible College though I forget his name. He was more of an acquaintance than anything really. I actually don't recall where he was going either, but I know it was over seas. He was giving away a lot of his furniture to those at the college sicne he was married and they had a lot of stuff. Pretty much all he kept was what he could take on the plane. Don't know how it all turned out though, makes me feel bad for not paying closer attention and supporting them.

We don't have a temple tax, but at the same time 1 Corinthians 16 has Paul telling the church to set aside a sum of money to be taken up. There seems to be too much money exchanged, especially in Acts, our model for the early church, to say that giving was not done. Yeshua effectively said to give everything to G-d with his "give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to G-d what is G-d's."

Does this present itself as a 10% tithe today? I'm not entirely sure, perhaps we should be giving that much more to be furthering the kingdom.

Originally posted by romanmel
reply to post by Mykahel

 

Tithing was a temple tax to support the temple. The temple was destroyed almost 2,000 years ago. Jesus said that His temple was in our hearts. You cannot pay a temple tax without a temple.

Close, but no. There was a treasury that collected money for the temple. Tithing was strictly crops and livestock.

reply to post by moocowman


Just because the Bible is referenced does not mean you have to bring up a separate issue of its credibility or lack there of in your opinion. There are other threads for that. I think any thread with a focus on Christian issues would include references to the Bible (hopefully) so by your reasoning you should be trolling every Christian thread and arguing about who wrote the Bible, its context, etc.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2

Originally posted by romanmel
reply to post by Mykahel

 

Tithing was a temple tax to support the temple. The temple was destroyed almost 2,000 years ago. Jesus said that His temple was in our hearts. You cannot pay a temple tax without a temple.

Close, but no. There was a treasury that collected money for the temple. Tithing was strictly crops and livestock.

Not so. Crops and livestock was used prior to the introduction of coinage. Coins were first used in Rome about 220 BC. At the time of Christ, all temple tax was accepted in "good Tyrian silver" only. Thus those who traveled from other locals were expected to exchange their coins for Shekels and Half Shekels that were minted at the mint at Tyre. Thus the money-changers in the temple.