Tithing..... And the scum that rob God...

100% quality contribution

If I could applaud you I would.

If people can help out I think they should, but people should not feel an obligation to donate to a church if they can't in the first place. Making the preacher's family comfortable at the expense of your own is not the way to salvation.

[edit on 1-3-2010 by BlackJackal]

reply to post by Freenrgy2


Yes but for the most part I think it is preached out of ignorance. As for the pastor of the small assembly that I attend. He had me kicked off of the board of detectors for not paying tithes. I did not care weather or not that I was on the board, but that was his motion because my contributions did not reach 10% of my income do to my financial situation. Now when he preaches on tithing I just smile and wave at him, sense I gave him a 93 page typed essay that I put together about biblical tithing. Yes he is in the wrong when he preaches about it, but that is one of only a few things that he fails in when it comes to biblical accuracy. I know it gets his goat when he sees my wife and I smile every time he preaches this lie.

reply to post by BlackJackal


Yes I agree thank you!
you could always pass on a ☼

reply to post by The_Tick


Well, he can't claim ignorance if you've give him information contrary to what he teaches. Pastors need to be held to a higher standard.

reply to post by proteus33


Thats close to half a million dollars a year! No taxes, no overheads... So basically after 10 years the pastor is a multi millionaire right??? And the people dont say anything??? Thats nuts!! I guarantee i wouldn't last 5 minuets in THAT church... My mouth would have a field day!!

The poor get screwed again.... But thats ok because Yeshua said "you shall always have the poor with you" coz that justifies it right??? Dammmmnnn

Its all a pyramid scheme, and their tax exempt status lets them punk not only God but the IRS and taxpayer!

I was always taught Trust in Jesus and God will provide!...

Lent is here so put out your lambs so the archangel can slaughter them and not your children!..Um, lets just give up meat and donate the $ to the church! I hear Lexus's are expensive!

reply to post by Freenrgy2


Thanks for your powerful posts friend.. I believe this subject has been shoved under the carpet for long enough.. Something needs to be said.. This very thing has taken sooo many people from God its unreal, and the pastors passing off this junk need to be bought to account.... If we dont do it then like the watchmen we are supposed to be their blood will be required of our hands because we knew, we saw and did nothing about it....

Trouble is that there is a "dont touch Gods anointed" attitude that is prevalent, however Gods Spirit is in us too which makes us ALL Gods anointed... Its time to speak up.. If you love God and His people then we must do something about it.. God is being made to look like a liar... Especially to the poor person needing a miracle who thinks they will get a thousand fold blessing for sending some dodgy pastor their rent money.. This person fall from God when nothing turns up... That pastor is guilty of their blood, has defamed God and made Him look a liar...

[edit on 1-3-2010 by Yissachar1]

A good start would be to educate others on why they should not even pick up a NIV or New KJ "book", or any other man made "versions" - stick with the 1611 Authorized KJ Bible.

The New International perVersion Did you know the New International Version (NIV) removes 17 complete verses, 64,576 words, contains blatant lies and that's just the beginning.

The New King James Version:Counterfeit Is the New King James Version true to the King James? Did you know the New King James Bible makes over 100,000 translation changes from the "old" King James Bible?

Major Bible Words Removed Did you know the New King James Verison takes out over 2200 words. And that's just the New Testament! The NIV takes out over 5000! Not insignificant words, but key Bible words like Christ, Lord, Jesus, heaven, etc. A table that lists 15 major Bible words and how many times the new versions remove them!

Source

reply to post by Freenrgy2


Yes I made it a point that he could no longer attribute that teaching to ignorance. He thinks that I am misconstruing scripture and twisting it to prove my point, but that can not be farther from the truth. When it comes to tithing I believe that it has been tought and excepted for so many years that to speak in opposition of it is almost blasphemy to most Christians. Financial Tithing was put into place by the Roman Catholic Church to gain rule over the people, much like the baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holey Ghost, which was put into place at the Nicene Council with great opposition of the people.
As for my pastor I will give him the benefit of the doubt and attribute it to a low IQ. lol
If you have been tought something for so many years it is hard to bite your words, swallow your pride and say I have been wrong about this topic my whole life. I had to but I found much freedom in it, and my finances are slowly starting to turn around. I am still working on my pastor and hopefully some day God will open his eyes. I wounder if he preaches it out of fear?

reply to post by Freenrgy2

Correction, you can give any of those things. Tithes are strictly realted to the crops and livestock that were to benefit the priests. Furthermore, tithe means "the tenth" and not "a tenth". Therefore, if I had 15 sheep and were passing them under the gate, only the tenth one would have been taken as a tithe. And it wouldn't necessarily have been the best one out of the bunch. I couldn't tithe one and a half sheep.

HOly cow, I mean sheep,

I did not know that, you learn something new everyday.

reply to post by Yissachar1


"The church has stopped growing now... Why??? They have fell into the money trap, and the pastor has developed an ego the size of Everest... Now the church is in decline.. I wonder why??"

Just a little something to support your post:
Michigan: a pastor sent a letter to all members of his parish instructing them that they must give more money or he will quit. He listed the many reasons but the one that struck a raw chord in only a few of the members was "it is expensive keeping up the mortgage on two homes."

I would have thought that the members of the church would have let this greedy man go; instead, they supplied an extra collection, one before the service and one after stating how much more was needed.

It is a sad sort of ignorance when people have a book in front of them that they profess to believe in yet have never read more than what they were told to read. As far as the tithe, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's" no longer carries the meaning it once had, at least not for one church located in the midwest.

reply to post by Freenrgy2



Freenrgy, will you explain this scripture to me,

They like to use it.

2:1 In the seventh month, on the twenty-first day of the month, the word of the Lord came by the hand of Haggai the prophet, 2 “Speak now to Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and to all the remnant of the people, and say, 3 ‘Who is left among you who saw this house in its former glory? How do you see it now? Is it not as nothing in your eyes? 4 Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, declares the Lord. Be strong, O Joshua, son of Jehozadak, the high priest. Be strong, all you people of the land, declares the Lord. Work, for I am with you, declares the Lord of hosts, 5 according to the covenant that I made with you when you came out of Egypt. My Spirit remains in your midst. Fear not. 6 For thus says the Lord of hosts: Yet once more, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land. 7 And I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with glory, says the Lord of hosts. 8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, declares the Lord of hosts. 9 The latter glory of this house shall be greater than the former, says the Lord of hosts. And in this place I will give peace, declares the Lord of hosts.’”

8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, declares the Lord of hosts.

I like your explanations.

reply to post by peggy m




That has floored me... Unbelievable.... These people are truly sheep!! Only not lead by The Good Shepherd but by a total shyster.....

reply to post by Stormdancer777


"ALL souls belong to the LORD," too.... Ezekiel 18:4

reply to post by Yissachar1

one of my favorites,

“And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock. The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd:

and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.

My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;

As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;

Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD; Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds: and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.” (Ezek 34:1-10)

This one always makes me cry,

Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee.

He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee.

He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee.

Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

reply to post by nomorecruelty

A good start would be to educate others on why they should not even pick up a NIV or New KJ "book", or any other man made "versions" - stick with the 1611 Authorized KJ Bible.

Why not go the whole hog and educate others especially children on why they shouldn't pick up a bible at all. Oh by the way the was written by men also.
Then no one have to concern themselves with tithing to buy a gods favour.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Freenrgy2

 

Freenrgy, will you explain this scripture to me,

They like to use it.

2:1 In the seventh month, on the twenty-first day of the month, the word of the Lord came by the hand of Haggai the prophet, 2 “Speak now to Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and to all the remnant of the people, and say, 3 ‘Who is left among you who saw this house in its former glory? How do you see it now? Is it not as nothing in your eyes? 4 Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, declares the Lord. Be strong, O Joshua, son of Jehozadak, the high priest. Be strong, all you people of the land, declares the Lord. Work, for I am with you, declares the Lord of hosts, 5 according to the covenant that I made with you when you came out of Egypt. My Spirit remains in your midst. Fear not. 6 For thus says the Lord of hosts: Yet once more, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land. 7 And I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with glory, says the Lord of hosts. 8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, declares the Lord of hosts. 9 The latter glory of this house shall be greater than the former, says the Lord of hosts. And in this place I will give peace, declares the Lord of hosts.’”

8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, declares the Lord of hosts.

I like your explanations.

I see that God is describing his glory and that he will rebuild Israel better than it was before. But nowhere in this verse, does he say to tithe or ask for a tithe of gold and silver. Only charlatans who deceive would have you believe that this one verse is somehow proof that God tells new covenant Christians to tithe 10% of their earnings. He is making reference that the wealth of the other nations is not theirs but His.

And since tithing was required only for the Israelites under the law; is God saying that those not under the law are tithing to God when he shakes the nations and the treasure comes in? I think not.

[edit on 1-3-2010 by Freenrgy2]

You average church (and I'm guessing what I'm about to say is the same for most denominations. Heck - it probably applies to most religions)..

Your average church will have some expenses that are legitimate expenses that need to be paid.

These include:

Utilities (Phone, power, water, etc).
Payroll (preachers, any paid staff)
Building maintenance & upkeep
Payroll taxes
Insurance
Office Supplies
Cleaning Supplies
Restroom Supplies
Sheet music and copyright charges
Ministry and education supplies (Sunday school books, games for the nursery, etc).
Tithes to the "home office" (if the deomination requires it - more on this later)

That's just a few off the top of my head - but there are several more.

So, where does the money to pay these come from? It either has to be given by the congregation, the church has to raise it through various fund raising efforts or both.

I agree 110% that the mansion dwelling, private jet flying preachers are scum that leech money from their flock.

However, kind of like not all cops are bad - not all preachers or churches do this. Personally, I know several pastors that work either full or part time jobs besides their church work just that money that would otherwise go for their pay can be used for keeping the lights on, etc.

Oh - the tithe to the "home office" some denominations require the churches to send 10% of what they take in back to the "home office" for its support. I don't agree with this practice - but it is required in some denominations.

I guess all I'm trying to say is this -

The excesses of some pastors and churches is wrong and I do think it is evil. However, I do not think all churches can be painted with this brush - and their are some legitimate expenses just in keeping the doors open, the lights on and toilet paper in the restroom and many churches operate at just barely meeting these expenses.

reply to post by moocowman


I think the Bible read and taken in proper context, is a wonderful source of wisdom teachings, history, and philosophical and spiritual truth,

Why do you have to take it to this level?

Come on Moo, you really hate it this much?

Moo thx for your contribution of ill intent. I am sure you are going to win a lot of people over on this thread with your nonsensical flagrance.

Froggy I agree with you 100%.
The Bible makes it very clear in the new testament that we should give, but not for all to give. Do you think that I will be cursed with a curse for not paying 10% of may income? Surly not. What God really wants is are heart. I would certainly give more than I do if I had the ability to do so. According to the Bible I owe my debtors first. For Christians there is no condemnation for the lack of tithing, but you should support the pastor and church where you attend if you can.

On another note and this is my personal opinion, that a pastor shoud not make any more then average general wage of their assembly. just a though.