Would Germans still be ashamed for wwr2 ?

reply to post by Siddharta


what the meaning of sc progressive question was..is if it could be that way in a hypothesis..is it this way the jews are revenge the Germans for the wwr2 ?

There is no gain in a revenge. Better they always remind my country, that we owe them something. And also, that Germans have no right to critizise their way of "defending" themselves.

why should they, it was a long time ago and most of the germans was not even born then .
you might even ask should the americans be ashamed of their actions in vietnahm or the uk in south africa . the list goes on.
what we should be asking , is let us learn from these times . so that they never happen again.
and please remember the common man does not make war, it is the polititians and their puppet masters

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
Germany can never and I mean never have it own fighting force that is not watched closely by the US. They lost and so did Japan for that matter. They are lucky we let them live there at all after the war I would have put them on ships and said go settle somewhere else that would really send a message.

And to everyone who thinks that this is way to harsh take a look at what they did to there neighbors in that time period. It would be doing nothing less than what they did. We won they lost end of story and if the want to kick us out and rebuild so be it we will see what happens in another 10 years.

So you would have punished a country's people for what their government did? What is the sense in that?

And to answer the OP's question, no they should be ashamed of WW2 because they had nothing to do with it. The sins of your ancestors are not your sins.

Originally posted by swecret
Ok dont get me wrong here..but can someone fill me in why so many in germany listened on someone like hitler back then ??

it all has to do with the great war aka world war one
weakened economy (germanys great depression )

Originally posted by kj6754

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
Germany can never and I mean never have it own fighting force that is not watched closely by the US. They lost and so did Japan for that matter. They are lucky we let them live there at all after the war I would have put them on ships and said go settle somewhere else that would really send a message.

And to everyone who thinks that this is way to harsh take a look at what they did to there neighbors in that time period. It would be doing nothing less than what they did. We won they lost end of story and if the want to kick us out and rebuild so be it we will see what happens in another 10 years.

So you would have punished a country's people for what their government did? What is the sense in that?

And to answer the OP's question, no they should be ashamed of WW2 because they had nothing to do with it. The sins of your ancestors are not your sins.

It called war you dont see the leaders going into the octagon do you? And look at history many invading armies do just what I said. It sucks but it is who we are no matter how you sugar coat it. Many people have lost there homelands because of war. A perfect example is the American indians and do I feel sorry for them NO they lost and if they could have beat us they would have pushed us into the ocean. I understand how harsh the truth about war is.

Originally posted by lozenge
reply to post by Subjective Truth

 

you are ignorant. you have the nazi's confused with regular germans.

my great granddad was put in a concentration camp and he wasn't even jewish.

the problem was the nazi movement not the german people.

you are disgusting

Hmm who fights the wars? Have you ever heard of RAD? or what about Hitler youth. They knew they were going to war and they also knew the Jewish people were getting loaded into gas chambers. The hatred of the Jew in germany had alot to do with one thing and it was MONEY. They had it and and most Germans did not.


But to say the the German people are innocent is a lie a pure uneducated lie. I take it you did not have to many conversations with your grandpa I wonder what he would think.


True power is with the people and they stop it or let it happen. The regular German was as much at fault as was Hitler if not more. They wanted change he gave it to them and when the change happened they did little if nothing to stop it. Life was to good. This is the truth no matter how you want to spin it love me or hate me I don't care.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Subjective Truth]

reply to post by swecret


Hitler hated most Jews for four main reasons, 1 'they' had allegiance to their people over Germany. Hitler demanded loyalty and to die for Germany, very nationalistic. He feared jews would only work for their own and that they were 'parasites' to Germany.

2. They represented racial impurity. Hitler wanted 'aryan' peoples pure white and modern Jews of the time in Germany were result of Germans marrying Jews ie. Rothschild.
This is the same reason they hated Russians. As you should know Russian is mix of Norseman and Slav and to Hitler this is bad, to mix genes.

3. Jews instigated the communist revolution in Russia and he feared they would try it in Germany. Winston Churchill has a famous quote of 'with the notable exception of Lenin' almost all the bolshevik leaders were Jewish.

4. Hitler was Christian and resent that the Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah.


Since I know some smart ass will try to demonise me as a Nazi again I am Norwegian, we fought against the nazis, my great grandfather did, I consider myself more communist if anything. My position is the exact same as Lenins on the Jews. *

reply to post by Ridhya


You are 100% right but you did not mention how he sold it to the people. He sold it using that the Jew had more money and were hording it all and that they ran the banks. The greatest propaganda against the Jew in Germany was economical not racial.

why arent americans ashamed for what they army is doing and what they gov stands for ?

I mean, its the same in every country ... people are just too much blind ... ignorance is a blessing, everything seems perfect no?

the reality is that, for me it seems that our society is being sucked in by a black hole, I really dont see any good things happening in the future, I dont see this society evolving

another thing is that for me, the responsibility is on everyone ... everyone should be ashamed for not being able to see thought this hollywood act that is our world thought a tv

everyone seems to think that if we hear or see something in a tv, it means its true

nobody questions anything, I mean, it looks like nobody cares until something happens to them

the thing is that, since the beginning of society, some people (the smart ones) create some stunts to control most of the people and thats our problem; I never seen a society that encourage people to use their brains, instead, they want u to follow blindly everything

so, is it really our fault for not being able to see thought these stuns ? I really dont have an answer, but one thing I can say, I dont see our society getting away from this black hole ...

Firstly, I've been around authentic Germanic Peoples', and they look nothing like the little old men you see racing around on 'war footage reels', having a good time Immortal falling and racing around off of desktop allusionary tacts.

Secondly, they are still Purists, where all other nations are too docile, and must be incorporated into the War Machine. They still look for aggressors to overthrow and enslave for production of arms, as they rose from WWI into WWII with this Philosophy.

Lastly, they are very non-appreciative of lagging, were they are neither saddened or heightened by past acts of aggression, but only the forefront of the next incursion.

Alot of you seem to have the idea that the people even in that time had anything to do with the holocaust. The truth is the bad guys (german) were Hitler, his officers, and the ones running the concentration camps. The people merely elected a leader and supported their country. I highly doubt most of them even knew of the atrocities that were being committed by the administration of that time. Germans in no way should be ashamed of what happened way back then. The main mistake they made was the trust in their government. It is the same throughout history. There have always been the higher ups pulling the strings and the people carrying the guilt after the problems are over. It is like this in the states. Many, like me once, think they should feel guilty over slavery. Truth is there is nothing you nor I can do about it. My ancestors, like alot of your ancestors I am sure, came over here on the boats during the potato famine and were treated like dogs. You will never see me asking/accepting an apology from some government official that had nothing to do with the way they were treated.

reply to post by Subjective Truth

Oh of course, he said look at the Jews how they flourish while we starve and reichsmark is worth nothing? They profitted off the war! Or so the nazis told the people. When I have the time I will write a long thread about the nazis.

I think in your other posts you are hypocritical though, you say right by might (as in the Natives were conquered, get over it) but if the Germans decimate the Poles and Jews its wrong? By the logic you used before I should think your response is 'the jews couldnt fight them off well too bad'.

I tend to think its all wrong.

reply to post by Ridhya


I wish we could all live like Jesus. I really do war is hell on earth. But to the victor goes the spoils and they also write the history. I was making a point about what could have happened. Look into history and what conquering armies have done. We would not even have Mexicans if it was not for a conquering army right? Also America would not exist in its current form if not for war. I could list many more but I think you get the point.

reply to post by ventian


You are 100% wrong. I have talked to them the people that lived in that time in Germany and they knew what was going on maybe not all of it but certainly the wars. The people have as much responsibility as Hitler or the SS. They are all one the same and couldn't exist with out each other.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Subjective Truth]

reply to post by Subjective Truth


I know about the wars in the middle east...that doesn't make me guilty. They knew of the wars, but most had no idea of what was going on at the camps. WW1 completely destroyed that country and basically made them call to their government for help. They found help in a leader that promised great things but turned out to be nothing more than your run of the mill sociopath (lot more power though). This is the reason that after wars from there on out we have stayed in the country. It is to prevent this from happening like it did after WW1. They are guilty of prejudice against the jewish people and pride in their country (as promoted by the state run media of the day)but aside from that I don't see how they could've done anything.

Originally posted by ventian
Alot of you seem to have the idea that the people even in that time had anything to do with the holocaust. The truth is the bad guys (german) were Hitler, his officers, and the ones running the concentration camps. The people merely elected a leader and supported their country. I highly doubt most of them even knew of the atrocities that were being committed by the administration of that time

From what I've been told, the Juden had to be embossed with a threaded Star of David, red in color. And, all German citizens had to facilitate their 'shipment' for relocation, and their properties were distributed to the state for the war effort.

Refusal to participate led to imprisonment, and torture: often including wounding for medical study so as to improve the survival rate of front-line troops.

Although some discretion was used for reconnessaince evasion purposes, this was to conduct the operation more easily.

The Judaistic people have a right to be angry, but more Polish and Russians died via the mass slaughter technologies, and were also civilian.

reply to post by ventian


OK how do you explain teaching young kids how to fight? Or handing out medals to women to have more kids? Also what about all the Jews that had there shops burned down and then got loaded into train cars?


Let me ask it this way would you notice if you neighbors shop got burned down and then they dragged them off? They knew ask them for yourself maybe not all but most. And you have to also remember many of them lie about it shame is a powerful thing.



And and I almost forgot how do you explain the countless posters and news articles? was every one asleep?

reply to post by ventian

I have it saved but KilgoreTrout made an excellent post about how Hitler probably did not know about the exterminations going on in concentration camps (though knew about the einsatzgruppen in Russia/Poland).

I would post it if it wasnt against ats rules to talk about someone but if you want to message and I will quote it for you.

Hitler constantly procrastinated making decision about deportations because he worried about what many would think, ie Karl Haushofer was married to someone half-Jewish. He actively helped Hitler and Hess while they were in prison and to develop their ideas, and helped to get intellectual support for Nazism, but refused to support anti-semitism because of his wife. Hitler did not want to upset these people and was very conflicted about deporting Jews for this reason. What would she and Haushofer think, if her family, and his family by marriage, is deported?

reply to post by swecret

if so why is the americans still punish them by having their military bases there..and denying them their own military defence

I don't know if what I'm about to say has been already, but I thought I'd say it anyway.

The military bases that are in Germany aren't American bases alone. They are NATO bases. As such, at each base there are troops from all over Europe at them.

In addition, Germany has a military. I see the Bundeswehr from time to time as I'm in stores and I'll see their vehicles as I'll be zipping down the Autobahn.